[Merged] Apple's missing 17" LCD and the future iMac

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 106
    jkarc21jkarc21 Posts: 132member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NovaVengeance

    Fibre Channel is way to expensive...



    So are all apple products.. but we never seem to have trouble spending an excessive amount of $$$ on all the other hardware goodies. So why not add one more into the mix.
  • Reply 82 of 106
    gavrielgavriel Posts: 175member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Zab The Fab

    Strangely enough, not many Mac users OR members of the press noticed the listing of Xgrid incorporated into Tiger, when Jobs did his preview.



    Steve didn't even mention it, but it was right there on his slide! THIS IS BIG!!!




    Actually, I seem to recall that Steve *did* mention this during the keynote.
  • Reply 83 of 106
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jkarc21

    So are all apple products.. but we never seem to have trouble spending an excessive amount of $$$ on all the other hardware goodies. So why not add one more into the mix.



    Because the iMac is a consumer computer. Fibre channel is at home in the server room or massively parallel computing. On the other hand, I think Firewire 800 could pull this off nicely without the crazy costs of Fibrechannel.



    Still, after buying 2 iMacs, wouldn't you be solidly in PowerMac territory? Why not just get a computer with dual chips at this point? They are connected using the fastest buss available, and you don't have component redundancy. Although if this was marketed as buy one now and add more as $$ permits it may work.



    I just don't see them undermining their XServe compute nodes though.
  • Reply 84 of 106
    macsrgood4umacsrgood4u Posts: 3,007member
    "Most people"... one of the most often used phrase that has absolutely no basis in fact. A cliché that would require interviewing or getting opinions of the entire population on the planet or at least a high percentage to agree on something.
  • Reply 85 of 106
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    A good number of people give their old machine away/pass it down when they get a new one. A good number of the people I work with pass their old computer/monitor down to their kids or relative. Most systems only have any value when they are complete. Sure, you *can* get a new box to go with the old monitor but then you start thinking "Hey, I sure wish I got the new display too".



    This of course does not apply to everyone but I think too much emphasis is being placed on having a separate display.
  • Reply 86 of 106
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    Actually, I think the emphasis is on the fact that with the current iMacs, you HAVE to give the display away, you have no choice.



    What happens if the LCD goes kaput? Even by plugging in a separate display, you are constantly reminded of the dead LCD.



    Personally, I look at monitor purchases as separate from computer purchases. Right now my 17" monitor at home is on its 3rd desktop. At some point I want to replace it, but I certainly don't want that decision forced on me.
  • Reply 87 of 106
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PBG4 Dude

    Personally, I look at monitor purchases as separate from computer purchases. Right now my 17" monitor at home is on its 3rd desktop. At some point I want to replace it, but I certainly don't want that decision forced on me.



    You and the other 95% of the market. It absolutely amazes me that people that argue the positives of the AIO, which are tangible, use these same arguements to negate the need for another line of headless Apple computers. Almost no one is saying get rid of the AIO, almost everyone is saying add a more flexible, headless, affordable(but not cheap eMachine like)option. What's that old movie line? Build it and they will come???
  • Reply 88 of 106
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PBG4 Dude

    Actually, I think the emphasis is on the fact that with the current iMacs, you HAVE to give the display away, you have no choice.



    What happens if the LCD goes kaput? Even by plugging in a separate display, you are constantly reminded of the dead LCD.



    Personally, I look at monitor purchases as separate from computer purchases. Right now my 17" monitor at home is on its 3rd desktop. At some point I want to replace it, but I certainly don't want that decision forced on me.




    I'm sure it doesn't fit every situation. Personally I have 2 19" monitors at home and I would really prefer an LCD for space/power purposes.



    To be honest though if my rev. A iMac didn't have the built in monitor I would probably not still be using it.
  • Reply 89 of 106
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rickag

    You and the other 95% of the market. It absolutely amazes me that people that argue the positives of the AIO, which are tangible, use these same arguements to negate the need for another line of headless Apple computers. Almost no one is saying get rid of the AIO, almost everyone is saying add a more flexible, headless, affordable(but not cheap eMachine like)option. What's that old movie line? Build it and they will come???



    Exactly. Weather you like it or not AIO computers make up a small percentage of computers sold. There are many reasons for this, but one thing that Apple should realize is that with their AIO strategy for the consumer market they are not covering the needs/desires of the market that they are targeting and based on market sales figures at least offering a headless as an alternative to the AIO they would better cover the very broad needs of the consumer market than they do with a the AIO products that they offer today. Also, since AIO's do have a display built in the entry price of the system looks inflated. While the iMac starts out at $1299 the system without the monitor and arm might retail for no more than $999, and Apple could probably get it down less than that. This would help bring down the "percieved" high entry cost into Macs.
  • Reply 90 of 106
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JCG

    Exactly. Weather you like it or not AIO computers make up a small percentage of computers sold. There are many reasons for this, but one thing that Apple should realize is that with their AIO strategy for the consumer market they are not covering the needs/desires of the market that they are targeting



    Why should they realize that? The preponderance of towers with separate displays has nothing to do with consumer demand and everything to do with component supply.



    If you stop looking at computers specifically, and looking at consumer products generally, so-called "consumer" PCs are a clunky exception, not the rule.



    A cheap headless machine might do OK among penny-pinchers. But it's not a better consumer product, and it doesn't do a better job of meeting consumer desires or needs.



    Quote:

    and based on market sales figures at least offering a headless as an alternative to the AIO they would better cover the very broad needs of the consumer market than they do with a the AIO products that they offer today.



    This assumes, again, that consumer input has anything to do with the design of consumer PCs. If you're competing on price, you need mass-produced components from multiple suppliers, which puts you at the mercy of the commodity market, which restricts you to essentially one or another variant of a thirty-year-old design whether it's the best solution or not. And so you have multiple brands of interchangeably designed and configured machines, and no real choice. (I'm thinking of the Best Buy salesman who, when asked which brand was good, looked down the row of machines, shrugged and said, "It doesn't matter. They're all the same." What kind of choice is that?)



    I believe that an AIO form is an unambiguous advantage in the consumer sector, because it makes the same tradeoffs for the same benefits that consumer products do generally. Obviously, it has to be designed and priced right, but so does anything. Look no farther than the PC vendors: Since they can't offer a true AIO, they all offer preconfigured bundles including monitors. Why? Because that's how consumers buy computers.
  • Reply 91 of 106
    Quote:

    It seems like the current line up of cinema displays are one short of a full line up... I'm referring to the lack of a 17" for those consumer level apple fans that don't want to spend over 1,000. It seems to me this 17" that is missing could be for a very good reason.



    I think this is exactly what those guys were thinking.
  • Reply 92 of 106
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,257member






    Oh I'd buy a Blue one in a HEARTBEAT!



    Teh sexy!
  • Reply 93 of 106
    sport73sport73 Posts: 438member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison







    Oh I'd buy a Blue one in a HEARTBEAT!



    Teh sexy!




    Best design I've seen yet. I want one!
  • Reply 94 of 106
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison







    Oh I'd buy a Blue one in a HEARTBEAT!



    Teh sexy!








    Those are pretty cool looking. It was the price of the cube that was it's downfall. Can Apple make something that is appealing with inexpensive parts to bring down prices far enough to sell enough this time?



    Green and orange need better color, and the G5 grid cube look was cool too.

    Maybe a two cubes? The Grid stylized Cube with better parts, and higher price tag, and the iodized metal as a less expensive alternative?
  • Reply 95 of 106
    bborofkabborofka Posts: 230member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    I believe that an AIO form is an unambiguous advantage in the consumer sector, because it makes the same tradeoffs for the same benefits that consumer products do generally. Obviously, it has to be designed and priced right, but so does anything. Look no farther than the PC vendors: Since they can't offer a true AIO, they all offer preconfigured bundles including monitors. Why? Because that's how consumers buy computers.



    I don't understand your argument for AIO designs. There have been many attempts to create a successful AIO PC much like the iMac and they simply don't sell. Even Gateway still sells its profile but it's far from a successful seller.



    People would rather buy a separate monitor and separate box. The numbers don't lie... what % of PC purchases out there, particularly in the consumer market, are for AIO designs? I would guess in the single-digits. There could be a lot of reasons for this, but I think the main one is, the life of a display is considerably longer than its accompanying computer. Especially when we're talking about flat panels, people spend lots of money on those and want to use them on future PC purchases. Hence, people prefer to buy the display and the PC separately, even if they buy them as a bundle. At least they have the option to use a different screen with it.



    Apple is oblivious to this because of Steve Jobs' dogmatic belief in the "whole widget" concept. I'm not saying they need to get rid of the AIO Mac, just offer something in the $1000-$1500 range that isn't crippled and doesn't have a monitor. PowerMac G5 Express anyone?
  • Reply 96 of 106
    ~ufo~~ufo~ Posts: 245member
    am I the only one who's totally in favour of colours but dislikes the current ipod mini style colours....

    I think they're ghastly! and look like something from an asian gay anime porn cartoon flick....



    the old iSeries colours where cool... they were colourful, but cool. They had style.

    These are just powerpuff girls meet pc mod gamer geek at a really hazy drinky druggy party.....
  • Reply 97 of 106
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    I was partial to the Tangerine iBook myself. If they brought back this color in a headless Mac (PowerMac mini?) it would be in my living room next month.



    I don't want to be forced into buying a display now. I'd like to upgrade my desktop since it's a homebuilt dual 500MHz Celeron I built in '99. But if Apple can't give me what I want I'll just keep plugging away on my PowerBook.
  • Reply 98 of 106
    othelloothello Posts: 1,053member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison







    Oh I'd buy a Blue one in a HEARTBEAT!



    Teh sexy!




    AGREED! sold!



  • Reply 99 of 106
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Hey I'd be very interested in a G5 Cube too... but it's very unlikely. We know the iMac G5 is being built by Compal in mainland China. Therefore it's very probably a laptop-like design - as all previous iMacs have been.



    It's great fun to let the imaginations run free, though. You guys are terrific! I wish I could do mockups like these.
  • Reply 100 of 106
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bborofka

    I don't understand your argument for AIO designs. There have been many attempts to create a successful AIO PC much like the iMac and they simply don't sell. Even Gateway still sells its profile but it's far from a successful seller.



    Well, sure. Have you ever seen one?



    If I had a choice between a Profile and a standard Gateway PC, I'd take the tower too. PC AIOs suck. They have for years. That doesn't mean AIOs suck. Obviously, Apple can make 'em, because even in its doldrums the iMac outsells all equivalents on the PC side.



    Quote:

    The numbers don't lie... what % of PC purchases out there, particularly in the consumer market, are for AIO designs? I would guess in the single-digits. There could be a lot of reasons for this, but I think the main one is, the life of a display is considerably longer than its accompanying computer.



    I think the main one is simpler: PC AIOs are overpriced, underperforming, gimmicky and ugly. The companies that make them don't understand their appeal either, they just reacted to the success of the iMac by focusing on superficial details and missing the point.



    I've seen far, far, far too many people replace entire systems even when they went in thinking they'd keep their old monitor to buy your argument. Regardless of their useful lifespan, monitors have been improving at a rapid clip, and you can always upgrade to a significantly nicer monitor than you have now for a perfectly reasonable price.



    As for the "option" of upgrading, is it worth the little warm fuzzy you get to seriously compromise the ergonomics of the machine? (I'm aware that the PC AIOs don't take advantage of this either the way the iMac 2 does. That's another reason why they don't sell.)



    Quote:

    Apple is oblivious to this because of Steve Jobs' dogmatic belief in the "whole widget" concept. I'm not saying they need to get rid of the AIO Mac, just offer something in the $1000-$1500 range that isn't crippled and doesn't have a monitor. PowerMac G5 Express anyone?



    The "whole widget" concept has nothing to do with AIOs, although an AIO does fit within the concept. If you buy a PowerMac and an Apple display, you can still take advantage of the fact that Apple controls the whole widget.



    The AIO is appealing because, done right, it's how you package a PC to fit the rules of the larger consumer market.



    The desire for something called a "PowerMac" - a pro machine - for a consumer price of $1000, basically sums up the thread. And who knows? There might be a market for something like that among pro customers. But it's not a consumer product, and it's not designed to satisfy consumer needs. It's for people who want a pro product at a consumer price.
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