dual core g4 please, faster bus, better battery life and a slightly new case (just so it feels more new) and I am set
I'd bet my left nut that IBM comes out with a dual-core 9xx before Freescale finishes their plans for the exxx series. The G4 will be around for a year or so at most. Au revoir, Moto.
I'd bet my left nut that IBM comes out with a dual-core 9xx before Freescale finishes their plans for the exxx series. The G4 will be around for a year or so at most. Au revoir, Moto.
Cramming a G5 into such a tight space can be seen a step toward a G5 notebook, but Joswiak cautions that it would be tougher to build the current chip into a laptop than it was to get it in an all-in-one. "The challenges of cooling a G5 in a Powerbook design are significantly greater," Joswiak said, noting that a Powerbook is less than half as thick as the new iMac, leaving far less room for cooling tricks.
I don't know what Joswiak is smoking, but x86 laptops have been shipping with full desktop CPUs in the 80 to 100 Watt range for a couple of years now. Even the "mobile Pentium 4" or "Pentium 4-M" come in at 40 to 60 Watts. Just leave the Powerbook G4 as configured and lower the price. A new Powerbook G5, 1.5" thick, can then enter the $2000+ market. It's Apple's choice to have the notebook range and form factors that they have, but engineering-wise, if x86 vendors can do it, Apple can do it.
The iMac G5 has full size components for the most part: 3.5" disk, 5+ inch long memory DIMMs, and like 50+ humungous capacitors, resistors and transformers. A 2.5 inch disk, SO-DIMMs, and smaller board components would require less volume.
Which brings up some questions. Has anyone checked to see if these new iMacs do indeed use the 'PowerMac 8,1' identifier or whatever it was rumored to be? What identifiers are left from the developer release(s) of 10.4 that indicate new products still to come?
The PowerBook would need better graphics and better processor and cooling that didn't need fans. I think it could be a while away. It took a year to make an iMac (from the PowerMac, how long have they been working on it for before that?!) I reckon next WWDC there will be a thin G5, but i want to say April, with Tiger (that's a little optimistic though).
Tom Boger, director of Apple's worldwide product marketing, told The Mac Observer that consumers shouldn't expect the G5 in a portable for the forseeable future.
"The new iMac G5 (desktop) is thin, but (the G5) is not thin enough for a laptop right now, "Mr. Boger said. "There are great challenges in putting a G5 processor in a laptop. The issues range from power to cooling and its overall size...You're not going to see a G5 in a laptop anytime soon."
Mr. Boger ruled out any G5 laptop this year, and would not even speculate when such a product would be available.
I for one would welcome a dual-core G4 but I suspect Apple will simply wait as long as possible (January) and then release the last G4 based on the current architecture.
[i]"The new iMac G5 (desktop) is thin, but (the G5) is not thin enough for a laptop right now, "Mr. Boger said. "There are great challenges in putting a G5 processor in a laptop. The issues range from power to cooling and its overall size...You're not going to see a G5 in a laptop anytime soon."
I'm not buying it....that statement, not the PowerBook G5. That, I will definitely buy!
IBM says it's quite doable, Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
I'm not buying it....that statement, not the PowerBook G5. That, I will definitely buy!
IBM says it's quite doable, Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
I completely agree. Apple are blatantly pulling out all the stops to get this computer ready as soon as possible, now the iMac is out the way they will have more resources and I see it very soon, the longer we wait for an update the more likely it will be a G5. (I thought Apple had stopped receiving G4s from Motorola anyway? I thought IBM had done something? I don't know I'm probably confused!)
Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
Which ones are they? How do you know they are not for a G4 PowerBook? If they say it's still a long way off I'm inclined to believe them. They seem to be hinting at a 65nm process for the G5 PowerBooks anyway.
Which ones are they? How do you know they are not for a G4 PowerBook? If they say it's still a long way off I'm inclined to believe them. They seem to be hinting at a 65nm process for the G5 PowerBooks anyway.
Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2. They both use the MacRISC4 architecture. The imac G5, the Pmac G5, and Xserve G5 also use the MacRISC4 architecture.
Some people here are getting way too carried away hoping for a G5 PB. Look at the kind of cooling and heatsink they needed for the new iMac and then you may be able to conclude whether Apple is stalling or is just screwed waiting for IBM to get the job done. Part of the cooling of this iMac requires that the unit be vertical which is not the case for laptops which are always running horizontal. The may be a big source of the problem. The crammed space of a laptop still gets stinking hot with the graphics, HDD, and CPU all generating a fair bit of heat. Current generation high performance gpu's tend to generate a massive amount of heat which is why ATI and nvidia needed to throttle the gpu's down when not be used to reduce this heat build up. You don't want your laptop to melt when running full speed and loaded with 1GB or more of ram!
Some people here are getting way too carried away hoping for a G5 PB. Look at the kind of cooling and heatsink they needed for the new iMac and then you may be able to conclude whether Apple is stalling or is just screwed waiting for IBM to get the job done. Part of the cooling of this iMac requires that the unit be vertical which is not the case for laptops which are always running horizontal. The may be a big source of the problem. The crammed space of a laptop still gets stinking hot with the graphics, HDD, and CPU all generating a fair bit of heat. Current generation high performance gpu's tend to generate a massive amount of heat which is why ATI and nvidia needed to throttle the gpu's down when not be used to reduce this heat build up. You don't want your laptop to melt when running full speed and loaded with 1GB or more of ram!
I agree, but why do you think they released these plugins which deal with power throttling? The specs are for SMU_Neo2 which is the 970fx (read: xServe G5, iMac G5) and they are built into 10.3.5. All I am saying is that with PowerTune it is a way to deal with the heat. The xServe sits horizontal, and has 2 of these 2GHz CPUs in them. I'll grant you it may be a while before we see something 1" thick, but it is coming. Released software proves that it will happen. I don't understand the disbelief. The video and hard discs are in PowerBooks already so that is not a good argument. They generate heat, but they do currently as well. And with the iMac G5, Apple proves that they can throttle the bus down to less than 1/2 speed (1/3 to be exact) so what is the big deal. The PowerBook should have more speed than the consumer iMac (always has). So are you telling me that Apple is going to sit on their a$$ and sell an iMac for $1299 which out specs a PowerBook at $1599? Not for long.
i dont know about the rest of you....but when i first saw the new imac what came to mind was a tablet....i mean, it looks like a tablet on a stand....is it inevitable?
Some of the thickness of the new ones is due to the alumnium vs. the Titanium. Mostly it's due to different building methods. I have 2 TiBook's and and AluBook. The AluBook has a much more sturdy feel, but there's no real reason not to expect a 1" powerbook aside from cooling requirements. If these OLED displays make it, then you'll see the potential for even thinner 'books, as the realtively thick CCD backlight won't be necessary. These often add 5-8mm of thickness to an LCD screen, which is a lot when you're working on a functional level of 0.05mm during the design phase.
Really, a powerbook only needs to be as thick as the drives and the screen. The 1" TiBook is close to this. Making the display thinner, and potentially making the battery out of Polymer (or Prismatic) LiIon cells and non-removable would allow for designs thinner yet. Also interesting are the e600/e700 chips from Freescale. They pack a lot of functionality on the processor die that is usually reserved for onboard ASICs. This means the designer can nix a lot of the mobo logic, making room for heatsinks without making the unit thicker.
A 0.75" thick Powerbook is not an unrealistic goal so long as there's a way to keep the chips from overheating.
What I'm trying to say is: the e600/700 are PERFECT for notebooks. Expect them as soon as they're ready. Everyone here seems to like Centrino. The 'e' takes the centrino concept and, as far as I can tell, go all the way rather than just half-assing it.
I definitely think Apple has prototypes of PowerBook G5s floating around their campus. You don't know the problems they may be running into just to keep them cool enough for safe operation. I, for one, would rather Apple get it right, even if it takes a little longer.
What I'm trying to say is: the e600/700 are PERFECT for notebooks. Expect them as soon as they're ready. Everyone here seems to like Centrino. The 'e' takes the centrino concept and, as far as I can tell, go all the way rather than just half-assing it.
On paper maybe, except for no production plans yet, the fact that it's based on RapidIO not HyperTransport and Motorola hving a horrible track record.
i dont know about the rest of you....but when i first saw the new imac what came to mind was a tablet....i mean, it looks like a tablet on a stand....is it inevitable?
Umm, I hope so, maybe that living room device we were promised (by ourselves)!
Comments
Originally posted by Peter North
dual core g4 please, faster bus, better battery life and a slightly new case (just so it feels more new) and I am set
I'd bet my left nut that IBM comes out with a dual-core 9xx before Freescale finishes their plans for the exxx series. The G4 will be around for a year or so at most. Au revoir, Moto.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
I'd bet my left nut that IBM comes out with a dual-core 9xx before Freescale finishes their plans for the exxx series. The G4 will be around for a year or so at most. Au revoir, Moto.
I would never make such a bet
Originally posted by Peter North
I would never make such a bet
Oh sure, but you'd risk incurable STDs for the rest of your life?
Oh wait, you're probably not that Peter North.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Oh sure, but you'd risk incurable STDs for the rest of your life?
Oh wait, you're probably not that Peter North.
The Senator doesnt dabble in dirt.
Now back to G5-Mobile
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636:
Cramming a G5 into such a tight space can be seen a step toward a G5 notebook, but Joswiak cautions that it would be tougher to build the current chip into a laptop than it was to get it in an all-in-one. "The challenges of cooling a G5 in a Powerbook design are significantly greater," Joswiak said, noting that a Powerbook is less than half as thick as the new iMac, leaving far less room for cooling tricks.
I don't know what Joswiak is smoking, but x86 laptops have been shipping with full desktop CPUs in the 80 to 100 Watt range for a couple of years now. Even the "mobile Pentium 4" or "Pentium 4-M" come in at 40 to 60 Watts. Just leave the Powerbook G4 as configured and lower the price. A new Powerbook G5, 1.5" thick, can then enter the $2000+ market. It's Apple's choice to have the notebook range and form factors that they have, but engineering-wise, if x86 vendors can do it, Apple can do it.
The iMac G5 has full size components for the most part: 3.5" disk, 5+ inch long memory DIMMs, and like 50+ humungous capacitors, resistors and transformers. A 2.5 inch disk, SO-DIMMs, and smaller board components would require less volume.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
PowerMac9,1 is coming...
Which brings up some questions. Has anyone checked to see if these new iMacs do indeed use the 'PowerMac 8,1' identifier or whatever it was rumored to be? What identifiers are left from the developer release(s) of 10.4 that indicate new products still to come?
Tom Boger, director of Apple's worldwide product marketing, told The Mac Observer that consumers shouldn't expect the G5 in a portable for the forseeable future.
"The new iMac G5 (desktop) is thin, but (the G5) is not thin enough for a laptop right now, "Mr. Boger said. "There are great challenges in putting a G5 processor in a laptop. The issues range from power to cooling and its overall size...You're not going to see a G5 in a laptop anytime soon."
Mr. Boger ruled out any G5 laptop this year, and would not even speculate when such a product would be available.
I for one would welcome a dual-core G4 but I suspect Apple will simply wait as long as possible (January) and then release the last G4 based on the current architecture.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
[i]"The new iMac G5 (desktop) is thin, but (the G5) is not thin enough for a laptop right now, "Mr. Boger said. "There are great challenges in putting a G5 processor in a laptop. The issues range from power to cooling and its overall size...You're not going to see a G5 in a laptop anytime soon."
I'm not buying it....that statement, not the PowerBook G5. That, I will definitely buy!
IBM says it's quite doable, Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
I'm not buying it....that statement, not the PowerBook G5. That, I will definitely buy!
IBM says it's quite doable, Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
I completely agree. Apple are blatantly pulling out all the stops to get this computer ready as soon as possible, now the iMac is out the way they will have more resources and I see it very soon, the longer we wait for an update the more likely it will be a G5. (I thought Apple had stopped receiving G4s from Motorola anyway? I thought IBM had done something? I don't know I'm probably confused!)
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Apple has released platform plugins for two PowerBook models. Nope, this just smells fishy.
Which ones are they? How do you know they are not for a G4 PowerBook? If they say it's still a long way off I'm inclined to believe them. They seem to be hinting at a 65nm process for the G5 PowerBooks anyway.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Which ones are they? How do you know they are not for a G4 PowerBook? If they say it's still a long way off I'm inclined to believe them. They seem to be hinting at a 65nm process for the G5 PowerBooks anyway.
Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2. They both use the MacRISC4 architecture. The imac G5, the Pmac G5, and Xserve G5 also use the MacRISC4 architecture.
Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Some people here are getting way too carried away hoping for a G5 PB. Look at the kind of cooling and heatsink they needed for the new iMac and then you may be able to conclude whether Apple is stalling or is just screwed waiting for IBM to get the job done. Part of the cooling of this iMac requires that the unit be vertical which is not the case for laptops which are always running horizontal. The may be a big source of the problem. The crammed space of a laptop still gets stinking hot with the graphics, HDD, and CPU all generating a fair bit of heat. Current generation high performance gpu's tend to generate a massive amount of heat which is why ATI and nvidia needed to throttle the gpu's down when not be used to reduce this heat build up. You don't want your laptop to melt when running full speed and loaded with 1GB or more of ram!
I agree, but why do you think they released these plugins which deal with power throttling? The specs are for SMU_Neo2 which is the 970fx (read: xServe G5, iMac G5) and they are built into 10.3.5. All I am saying is that with PowerTune it is a way to deal with the heat. The xServe sits horizontal, and has 2 of these 2GHz CPUs in them. I'll grant you it may be a while before we see something 1" thick, but it is coming. Released software proves that it will happen. I don't understand the disbelief. The video and hard discs are in PowerBooks already so that is not a good argument. They generate heat, but they do currently as well. And with the iMac G5, Apple proves that they can throttle the bus down to less than 1/2 speed (1/3 to be exact) so what is the big deal. The PowerBook should have more speed than the consumer iMac (always has). So are you telling me that Apple is going to sit on their a$$ and sell an iMac for $1299 which out specs a PowerBook at $1599? Not for long.
Originally posted by Placebo
...how far away is a 1 inch thick Powerbook?
I have a 1" thick powerbook.
Some of the thickness of the new ones is due to the alumnium vs. the Titanium. Mostly it's due to different building methods. I have 2 TiBook's and and AluBook. The AluBook has a much more sturdy feel, but there's no real reason not to expect a 1" powerbook aside from cooling requirements. If these OLED displays make it, then you'll see the potential for even thinner 'books, as the realtively thick CCD backlight won't be necessary. These often add 5-8mm of thickness to an LCD screen, which is a lot when you're working on a functional level of 0.05mm during the design phase.
Really, a powerbook only needs to be as thick as the drives and the screen. The 1" TiBook is close to this. Making the display thinner, and potentially making the battery out of Polymer (or Prismatic) LiIon cells and non-removable would allow for designs thinner yet. Also interesting are the e600/e700 chips from Freescale. They pack a lot of functionality on the processor die that is usually reserved for onboard ASICs. This means the designer can nix a lot of the mobo logic, making room for heatsinks without making the unit thicker.
A 0.75" thick Powerbook is not an unrealistic goal so long as there's a way to keep the chips from overheating.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
What I'm trying to say is: the e600/700 are PERFECT for notebooks. Expect them as soon as they're ready. Everyone here seems to like Centrino. The 'e' takes the centrino concept and, as far as I can tell, go all the way rather than just half-assing it.
On paper maybe, except for no production plans yet, the fact that it's based on RapidIO not HyperTransport and Motorola hving a horrible track record.
Originally posted by blacky
i dont know about the rest of you....but when i first saw the new imac what came to mind was a tablet....i mean, it looks like a tablet on a stand....is it inevitable?
Umm, I hope so, maybe that living room device we were promised (by ourselves)!