I'm not sure there's a reason that Apple would want to sell new logic boards to users, but video upgrades might make sense.
This is especially true if Apple is able to eventually bring iMac prices down a couple of hundred dollars. Even then, some number of folks might be more likely to buy a new iMac knowing that there's at least a bit of upgradability open to them.
For Apple, an ideal situation facing the person wanting to upgrade their videocard would be to
a. pay around $300 for a new video card, hefty Apple tax included.
or
b. pay $500-600 more for the latest and greatest iMac with a much faster processor, bigger HD, etc..
A hard choice for the consumer, but I don't think either one is bad for Apple.
Have to get my two cents in. There is a category missing. And thus I RANT:
I work with dozens of graphic designers in corporate and small design studios. Most are 'managed' by IT departments whose main concern are PCs. They all have tiny clerical cubicles and big, empty Mac towers under their desks, and constantly reach under to deal with an external removable of many sorts, stacked on top of the CPU. All devices are constantly knocked to the floor. An occasional open CD drive is done in by a knee. These people NEVER get upgrades or additions other than the occasional external drive or ram chip. Nothing ever gets into the drive bays (IT wouldn't DARE!). Nothing into the PCI slots. I know one group of 20 who pass around a single CD burner. Pro-PC IT departments ignore the users and won't upgrade until the whole machine dies. 5 years seems to be the minimum going rate to even consider replacing a working design machine. It's despicable. All these people stuck on OS9 and Quark 4 cause the damn Mac won't die (BTW - A non-diet Coke does wonders to hurry things along...<ahem>.)
Video pro, gaming geek and sexy scientific needs aside (Go SETI!), print and web designers need a HUGE screen and a SMALL foorprint, affordable desktop CPU with separately upgradable parts. External peripherals can come and go (including screens), all easily accessed from the real desktop. And it'd be a lot easier to convince a corporate IT penny pincher to buy 20 daughter boards than 20 whole CPUs. Sure it costs a lot more over time. WHO CARES. It's the way to work the corporate machine. At least the designers have a hope of keeping up with the lucky new hires who get a brand new CPU plopped in front of them.
So of course, I was hoping for a G5 Cube of sorts.
OK, it's nice to have a Dual Processor if you do Photoshop, but remember, we are talking about the corporate environment, not advertising where they actually KNOW time is money. I spent a nice half hour at Startbucks the other day while a ridiculously slow "T1" connection choked a Mac I was transferring data on. Should I bill for that time?
[B]Have to get my two cents in. There is a category missing. And thus I RANT:
I work with dozens of graphic designers in corporate and small design studios. Most are 'managed' by IT departments whose main concern are PCs. They all have tiny clerical cubicles and big, empty Mac towers under their desks, and constantly reach under to deal with an external removable of many sorts, stacked on top of the CPU. All devices are constantly knocked to the floor. An occasional open CD drive is done in by a knee. These people NEVER get upgrades or additions other than the occasional external drive or ram chip. Nothing ever gets into the drive bays (IT wouldn't DARE!). Nothing into the PCI slots. I know one group of 20 who pass around a single CD burner. Pro-PC IT departments ignore the users and won't upgrade until the whole machine dies. 5 years seems to be the minimum going rate to even consider replacing a working design machine. It's despicable. All these people stuck on OS9 and Quark 4 cause the damn Mac won't die (BTW - A non-diet Coke does wonders to hurry things along...<ahem>.)
Video pro, gaming geek and sexy scientific needs aside (Go SETI!), ************************************************** **************
Hey Notaclone, how did you know that I did a little theory and coding for SETI back when they were at AMES and funded by NASA ???? !!! Mostly on the Mars and Earth nodes of the VAX monstrosity
Greatest bunch o' bananas I've ever worked with !!!
THANKS!!!! You are a very good doggie!! Worked like a charm.
Now I feel guilty for sending back TWO powerbooks due to my pixel pickyness.
Oh this is fun. I am just poking away at my Sony LCD. Hmmm, think this last one is a coffee droplet...
************************
Most people unknowingly create stuck pixels by letting the keyboard press against the LCD.
Then, when they power down and wipe the screen clean, they unknowingly
repair some of those stuck ones with the wiping action.
Then, for some reason, they begin to espouse the religious belief preached
by most Genius Bar employes , that stuck pixels are caused by mysterious and random fluctuations of the vacuum energy field near a stray , time-phase conjugate positron... and thus perfectly acceptable given the 12.8 trillion
Yeah, see, I'm highly doubting that. Third-party processor upgrades are one thing but Apple holds on to logic boards like grim death! Purchasable logic boards... from Apple.... to replace your old one... which would be in perfect working order? Hahaha.
No no. Now that would be a new Apple.
No, that would be a very old Apple. I have a Centris 650 that started life as a IIvx, and could be made into a 7100 with the logic board upgrade kits that Apple sold at one point.
I am losing faith in the whole concept of the Bar Genius. The job has a salary of only 40k, even in NYC, and the overturn seems worse than McDonald's. I get much better answers to my mac enigmas in forums. An Apple employee recently groused to me on the fact that they provide them $50k worth of training, and of course they leave in months (after they get their free training and a nice discount on a Mac? Not a bad idea... I would enjoy a few weeks in Cal...) Sorry - bit off topic.
Back to debating buying the iMac and then making my two G4s into a coffee table. Of course it just occurred to me I have a bud at a local Mac repair shop, maybe I can get a few dead ones - ooh - gutted G5 towers with a glass top would be so cool - and I could store magazines inside the CPUs! Now I'm WAY off topic!
The modular design and the user serviceability, while no doubt implemented by Apple to save money on repairs, has some significant long term ownership effects and consequences, all of them good.
Building the 3G iMac in this way suggests a long term commitment on Apple's part for this design. The 3G iMac form factor should be with us for a long time.
Being able to repair or replace a failed component oneself, as well as the portent of future upgrades, makes this product significantly more desirable than earlier generation iMacs.
In 2 - 3 years there will be a bonanza of 3G iMac parts available on eBay and keeping one running into the future is assured by this design brilliance.
I think the most important option across all three models is the $99 bluetooth with wireless keyboard and mouse. I use them with my powerbook and the 100 bucks will prove to be money well spent.
Macbidouille just posted some very interesting details on this subject. The more interesting from what they say, is perhaps the creation of a site (by Apple?), "Do It Yourself", to guide the iMac users in the repair process.
Ah, the joys of Sherlock. I enjoyed the french2english translation:
"the repair of the animal could be done by the end-user while going on a site which will make its appearance mid-September and which will be called "C It Yourself". The end-user is helped by a series of 4 Leds in the machine which indicate to him the operating condition of the feeding..."
Ah, the joys of Sherlock. I enjoyed the french2english translation:
"the repair of the animal could be done by the end-user while going on a site which will make its appearance mid-September and which will be called "C It Yourself". The end-user is helped by a series of 4 Leds in the machine which indicate to him the operating condition of the feeding..."
Animal? Feeding? IT'S ALIVE!
Actually the translation is quite exact, and that's the problem. Macbidouille uses for the computer the term "bete" which means just animal; something like french computer slang.
The "C" in the "C It Yourself" comes from the french "Do", through the musical correspondence (do, re, mi, fa,... --> c, d, e, f,...).
Feeding . It comes from "alimentation" which means actually feeding. In the correct context it means the power supply.
Sorry, I have not the time to go through a translation (which will appear sooner or later in hardmac, the english version of macbidouille).
It seems ironic and rather pitiful that the one thing everyone wants to upgrade IMMEDIATELY on the iMac G5
is the graphics card, yet Apple rather stubbornly made THAT the one component that you can't user upgrade.
And thats the problem we have here folks, perception. It isn't User-Upgradable but User-Serviceable parts. Dissecting the iMac G4 was a painful process (same with processor changes in a Cube) but this simplifies part replacement.
I'd love for Apple to stock GPU, Processor and/or Logic board upgrades for the iMac but I'd also love a headless unit. Others might love a tablet, or even others a sub-notebook.
In the words of an immortal caddie, "That dog won't hunt."
And thats the problem we have here folks, perception. It isn't User-Upgradable but User-Serviceable parts. Dissecting the iMac G4 was a painful process (same with processor changes in a Cube) but this simplifies part replacement.
I'd love for Apple to stock GPU, Processor and/or Logic board upgrades for the iMac but I'd also love a headless unit. Others might love a tablet, or even others a sub-notebook.
In the words of an immortal caddie, "That dog won't hunt."
You are correct but in that same vein the original iMac was not intended to be upgradeable but resourceful companies did design and sell processor upgrades, and some interesting add ons like a VooDoo card and a few devices that took advantage of the mezzanine slot. I am not saying the same will happen here *but* if it is possible and demand exists then count on some enterprising company to exploit it.
I wouldn't count on Apple to make/stock/endorse any possible upgrades though.
ps - of course if the graphic card is soldered on then all the wishful thinking in the world wont help...
Q. Where has a company allowed for upgrades to products, specially computers? On the PC side, you can upgrade the video, HD, etc. but that is by design of the original PC, and not through company-produced daughter cards/user-pluggable modules.
With various mainboards (for the build-it-yourself clones), you can upgrade the processor if you purchase the proper mainboard, but this is not the scenario with the new IMac.
If anyone will be upgrading the processor, it will be the third-party vendors, not Apple. For some reason, I keep thinking that its more profitable for Apple to sell a whole new PC, rather than upgradable modules. They have never done this business scenario before, so how could it be profitable for them now?
Q. How would last year's upgradable PC compete, price-wise, with this year's model PC? Why would I not want to purchase last year's model then upgrade rather than purchase the spiffy new model?
Q for the Accountants: How does one depreciate a computer device, over 5 years, when you upgrade it sometime during its lifespan? Would you want it on your books, a 7 year old computer? -- I don't know, but this is a bottom line item.
From a service standpoint, if an organization purchased hundreds (a school??), and there are always a few bad Apples in the bunch, it would be much easier to have the tech person pull out the power-supply and replace it, rather than send the whole unit back. EG: A school could have several power-supplies on hand for a quick turn-around, no down-time. This is a selling point.
Current DELL computers currently have a 4 LED indicator light setup, as well as a no-tools required for disassembly, and if you call tech-support, they walk you through all the combinations of the LEDs to determine the malfunctioning part.
Comments
I have to admit, apple made me like the AIO with this one, I love the clean look, but it is UPGRADABLE! Long live modular components!!!
This is especially true if Apple is able to eventually bring iMac prices down a couple of hundred dollars. Even then, some number of folks might be more likely to buy a new iMac knowing that there's at least a bit of upgradability open to them.
For Apple, an ideal situation facing the person wanting to upgrade their videocard would be to
a. pay around $300 for a new video card, hefty Apple tax included.
or
b. pay $500-600 more for the latest and greatest iMac with a much faster processor, bigger HD, etc..
A hard choice for the consumer, but I don't think either one is bad for Apple.
Originally posted by a_greer
My only consern is that durring service, the display is pressed on the table, it looks resessed in the case but still that cant be good on LCD units.
I think the front panel has the same kind of clear acrylic shell that the iPods have. I don't you can touch the LCD.
Originally posted by trebek
I think the front panel has the same kind of clear acrylic shell that the iPods have. I don't you can touch the LCD.
*************************************************
That would be very bad --- most stuck pixels can be pushed back into perfect service by pushing on the flexible LCD ( I have done this many times )
but with the hard shell, I would have to get into the case and turn the LCD on
without the shell, push the stuck pixel, then re-assemble ----- SCARY.
---gooddog
Originally posted by gooddog
but we are cooking up a storm too are we not?
LET'S TRY TO LIST THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE GROUPS
PRO USER----------prosumer-------recreational
fastest CPU&GPU.......CPUmoderate speed....FAST GPU mostly
{etc} ...---gooddog
Have to get my two cents in. There is a category missing. And thus I RANT:
I work with dozens of graphic designers in corporate and small design studios. Most are 'managed' by IT departments whose main concern are PCs. They all have tiny clerical cubicles and big, empty Mac towers under their desks, and constantly reach under to deal with an external removable of many sorts, stacked on top of the CPU. All devices are constantly knocked to the floor. An occasional open CD drive is done in by a knee. These people NEVER get upgrades or additions other than the occasional external drive or ram chip. Nothing ever gets into the drive bays (IT wouldn't DARE!). Nothing into the PCI slots. I know one group of 20 who pass around a single CD burner. Pro-PC IT departments ignore the users and won't upgrade until the whole machine dies. 5 years seems to be the minimum going rate to even consider replacing a working design machine. It's despicable. All these people stuck on OS9 and Quark 4 cause the damn Mac won't die (BTW - A non-diet Coke does wonders to hurry things along...<ahem>.)
Video pro, gaming geek and sexy scientific needs aside (Go SETI!), print and web designers need a HUGE screen and a SMALL foorprint, affordable desktop CPU with separately upgradable parts. External peripherals can come and go (including screens), all easily accessed from the real desktop. And it'd be a lot easier to convince a corporate IT penny pincher to buy 20 daughter boards than 20 whole CPUs. Sure it costs a lot more over time. WHO CARES. It's the way to work the corporate machine. At least the designers have a hope of keeping up with the lucky new hires who get a brand new CPU plopped in front of them.
So of course, I was hoping for a G5 Cube of sorts.
OK, it's nice to have a Dual Processor if you do Photoshop, but remember, we are talking about the corporate environment, not advertising where they actually KNOW time is money. I spent a nice half hour at Startbucks the other day while a ridiculously slow "T1" connection choked a Mac I was transferring data on. Should I bill for that time?
Originally posted by gooddog
most stuck pixels can be pushed back into perfect service by pushing on the flexible LCD---gooddog
THANKS!!!!
Now I feel guilty for sending back TWO powerbooks due to my pixel pickyness.
Oh this is fun. I am just poking away at my Sony LCD. Hmmm, think this last one is a coffee droplet...
[B]Have to get my two cents in. There is a category missing. And thus I RANT:
I work with dozens of graphic designers in corporate and small design studios. Most are 'managed' by IT departments whose main concern are PCs. They all have tiny clerical cubicles and big, empty Mac towers under their desks, and constantly reach under to deal with an external removable of many sorts, stacked on top of the CPU. All devices are constantly knocked to the floor. An occasional open CD drive is done in by a knee. These people NEVER get upgrades or additions other than the occasional external drive or ram chip. Nothing ever gets into the drive bays (IT wouldn't DARE!). Nothing into the PCI slots. I know one group of 20 who pass around a single CD burner. Pro-PC IT departments ignore the users and won't upgrade until the whole machine dies. 5 years seems to be the minimum going rate to even consider replacing a working design machine. It's despicable. All these people stuck on OS9 and Quark 4 cause the damn Mac won't die (BTW - A non-diet Coke does wonders to hurry things along...<ahem>.)
Video pro, gaming geek and sexy scientific needs aside (Go SETI!), ************************************************** **************
Hey Notaclone, how did you know that I did a little theory and coding for SETI back when they were at AMES and funded by NASA ???? !!! Mostly on the Mars and Earth nodes of the VAX monstrosity
Greatest bunch o' bananas I've ever worked with !!!
---gooddog
Originally posted by notaclone
THANKS!!!!
Now I feel guilty for sending back TWO powerbooks due to my pixel pickyness.
Oh this is fun. I am just poking away at my Sony LCD. Hmmm, think this last one is a coffee droplet...
************************
Most people unknowingly create stuck pixels by letting the keyboard press against the LCD.
Then, when they power down and wipe the screen clean, they unknowingly
repair some of those stuck ones with the wiping action.
Then, for some reason, they begin to espouse the religious belief preached
by most Genius Bar employes , that stuck pixels are caused by mysterious and random fluctuations of the vacuum energy field near a stray , time-phase conjugate positron... and thus perfectly acceptable given the 12.8 trillion
perfect pixels in your laptop.
Get a Radtech screen cloth to keep them unstuck.
---gooddog
Originally posted by IonYz
Yeah, see, I'm highly doubting that. Third-party processor upgrades are one thing but Apple holds on to logic boards like grim death! Purchasable logic boards... from Apple.... to replace your old one... which would be in perfect working order? Hahaha.
No no. Now that would be a new Apple.
No, that would be a very old Apple. I have a Centris 650 that started life as a IIvx, and could be made into a 7100 with the logic board upgrade kits that Apple sold at one point.
Originally posted by gooddog
But I am told, by a bar genius...
I am losing faith in the whole concept of the Bar Genius. The job has a salary of only 40k, even in NYC, and the overturn seems worse than McDonald's. I get much better answers to my mac enigmas in forums. An Apple employee recently groused to me on the fact that they provide them $50k worth of training, and of course they leave in months (after they get their free training and a nice discount on a Mac? Not a bad idea... I would enjoy a few weeks in Cal...) Sorry - bit off topic.
Back to debating buying the iMac and then making my two G4s into a coffee table. Of course it just occurred to me I have a bud at a local Mac repair shop, maybe I can get a few dead ones - ooh - gutted G5 towers with a glass top would be so cool - and I could store magazines inside the CPUs! Now I'm WAY off topic!
Building the 3G iMac in this way suggests a long term commitment on Apple's part for this design. The 3G iMac form factor should be with us for a long time.
Being able to repair or replace a failed component oneself, as well as the portent of future upgrades, makes this product significantly more desirable than earlier generation iMacs.
In 2 - 3 years there will be a bonanza of 3G iMac parts available on eBay and keeping one running into the future is assured by this design brilliance.
I think the most important option across all three models is the $99 bluetooth with wireless keyboard and mouse. I use them with my powerbook and the 100 bucks will prove to be money well spent.
is the graphics card, yet Apple rather stubbornly made THAT the one component that you can't user upgrade.
I can't imagine a very long period of time will pass before demand
forces Apple to come out with at least a REV B 20" iMac G5 model including that upgrade.
In the mean time we all pray that someone at XLR8yourmac will have the stones to tear apart one of these puppies to prove that it CAN be done!
In reality, Apple maintains the attitude that if you need more
"that's why we make the towers"
With dual cores on the near horizon, it seems that the best option for
any business users would be to lease their equipment until these desired
improvments make their debut.
It would be a whole other story if Apple offered a trade up option for Pro users.
Meanwhile you can go ahead and purchase a machine from the current lineup, write off the expenses and depreciate the loss over 5 years.
Then buy some outrageous new gear when the time comes.
Originally posted by PB
Macbidouille just posted some very interesting details on this subject.
Ah, the joys of Sherlock. I enjoyed the french2english translation:
"the repair of the animal could be done by the end-user while going on a site which will make its appearance mid-September and which will be called "C It Yourself". The end-user is helped by a series of 4 Leds in the machine which indicate to him the operating condition of the feeding..."
Animal? Feeding? IT'S ALIVE!
Originally posted by notaclone
Ah, the joys of Sherlock. I enjoyed the french2english translation:
"the repair of the animal could be done by the end-user while going on a site which will make its appearance mid-September and which will be called "C It Yourself". The end-user is helped by a series of 4 Leds in the machine which indicate to him the operating condition of the feeding..."
Animal? Feeding? IT'S ALIVE!
Actually the translation is quite exact, and that's the problem. Macbidouille uses for the computer the term "bete" which means just animal; something like french computer slang.
The "C" in the "C It Yourself" comes from the french "Do", through the musical correspondence (do, re, mi, fa,... --> c, d, e, f,...).
Feeding
Sorry, I have not the time to go through a translation (which will appear sooner or later in hardmac, the english version of macbidouille).
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
It seems ironic and rather pitiful that the one thing everyone wants to upgrade IMMEDIATELY on the iMac G5
is the graphics card, yet Apple rather stubbornly made THAT the one component that you can't user upgrade.
And thats the problem we have here folks, perception. It isn't User-Upgradable but User-Serviceable parts. Dissecting the iMac G4 was a painful process (same with processor changes in a Cube) but this simplifies part replacement.
I'd love for Apple to stock GPU, Processor and/or Logic board upgrades for the iMac but I'd also love a headless unit. Others might love a tablet, or even others a sub-notebook.
In the words of an immortal caddie, "That dog won't hunt."
Originally posted by IonYz
And thats the problem we have here folks, perception. It isn't User-Upgradable but User-Serviceable parts. Dissecting the iMac G4 was a painful process (same with processor changes in a Cube) but this simplifies part replacement.
I'd love for Apple to stock GPU, Processor and/or Logic board upgrades for the iMac but I'd also love a headless unit. Others might love a tablet, or even others a sub-notebook.
In the words of an immortal caddie, "That dog won't hunt."
You are correct but in that same vein the original iMac was not intended to be upgradeable but resourceful companies did design and sell processor upgrades, and some interesting add ons like a VooDoo card and a few devices that took advantage of the mezzanine slot. I am not saying the same will happen here *but* if it is possible and demand exists then count on some enterprising company to exploit it.
I wouldn't count on Apple to make/stock/endorse any possible upgrades though.
ps - of course if the graphic card is soldered on then all the wishful thinking in the world wont help...
Originally posted by PB
Sorry, I have not the time to go through a translation (which will appear sooner or later in hardmac, the english version of macbidouille).
Here it is
Q. Where has a company allowed for upgrades to products, specially computers? On the PC side, you can upgrade the video, HD, etc. but that is by design of the original PC, and not through company-produced daughter cards/user-pluggable modules.
With various mainboards (for the build-it-yourself clones), you can upgrade the processor if you purchase the proper mainboard, but this is not the scenario with the new IMac.
If anyone will be upgrading the processor, it will be the third-party vendors, not Apple. For some reason, I keep thinking that its more profitable for Apple to sell a whole new PC, rather than upgradable modules. They have never done this business scenario before, so how could it be profitable for them now?
Q. How would last year's upgradable PC compete, price-wise, with this year's model PC? Why would I not want to purchase last year's model then upgrade rather than purchase the spiffy new model?
Q for the Accountants: How does one depreciate a computer device, over 5 years, when you upgrade it sometime during its lifespan? Would you want it on your books, a 7 year old computer? -- I don't know, but this is a bottom line item.
From a service standpoint, if an organization purchased hundreds (a school??), and there are always a few bad Apples in the bunch, it would be much easier to have the tech person pull out the power-supply and replace it, rather than send the whole unit back. EG: A school could have several power-supplies on hand for a quick turn-around, no down-time. This is a selling point.
Current DELL computers currently have a 4 LED indicator light setup, as well as a no-tools required for disassembly, and if you call tech-support, they walk you through all the combinations of the LEDs to determine the malfunctioning part.