Tiger question: Adding metadata to files...

dahacouk · September 17, 2004 3:01AM

Hi there,

Is there going to be a mechanism for adding user metadata to files in Tiger?

For example: I have a photo and it contains some of my friends. Now rather than putting their names free form in the comment or title I want to be explicit and add a statement like "Person = John Smith".

Then in spotlight I could specifically search for people with name containing "John".

To take this a bit further I could then have John Smith link to my Address Book from iPhoto!

The wonderful world of circular metadata...

Cheers Daniel

kickaha · September 17, 2004 3:47AM

If Apple redoes the iLife apps like I expect them to, you'll primarily use iPhoto to add that metadata to photos, just like now, but the metadata will be stored in the system-wide metadata database, and not just iPhoto's.

No word on whether they'll have generalized user-controllable metadata for all files. I suspect if they don't, someone else will quickly provide it... the APIs look to be dirt simple to use.

(And why wouldn't they? Because new users might find it confusing... it all depends on how they manage it. It would be much easier for most users to keep in mind "iTunes for managing music metadata, iPhoto for photo metadata..." etc, just like it is now, but the metadata would all come together into one nice big soup (aha! Newton lives!) for everyone to read.)

dahacouk · September 17, 2004 4:46AM

Right now you can directly edit a subset of an MP3's ID3 data but iPhoto seems to just restrict you to editing title, date and comments - and I don't think these are linked to the EXIF data file either.

So, there are some real inconsistencies in various applications. What we need to have is, in each application, view info, as we do now - but iPhoto calls it Show Info and iTunes calls it Get Info - let's have come consistency please.

Then, as we have with iTunes, we have the ability to edit a subset of the ID3 in the Info tab. Can't see this currently for iPhoto for EXIF. So, we need an advanced tab for each that allows us to edit the full spec of ID3 and EXIF tags. Having it as advanced will keep out the new users perhaps.

But then we need to go a stage further and have a super advanced option that allows us to add metadata tags to the existing ID3 and EXIF tags for any given file. These new user defined tags would not get stored in the ID3 and EXIF part of the files as they wont be part of the spec. But they'll get stored somewhere. Such as person for a JPEG file. It's not part of EXIF.

If there is a Person attribute for a photo then conceivably, if it was recognised, it could be understood in Address Book and so all things could link to each other in this way. Very powerful!

Super! Eh?

Cheers Daniel

kickaha · September 17, 2004 6:51AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dahacouk

Right now you can directly edit a subset of an MP3's ID3 data but iPhoto seems to just restrict you to editing title, date and comments - and I don't think these are linked to the EXIF data file either.

What you're looking for in iPhoto is Keywords.

Quote:

So, there are some real inconsistencies in various applications. What we need to have is, in each application, view info, as we do now - but iPhoto calls it Show Info and iTunes calls it Get Info - let's have come consistency please.

UI concern, has nada to do with metadata.

Quote:

Then, as we have with iTunes, we have the ability to edit a subset of the ID3 in the Info tab. Can't see this currently for iPhoto for EXIF. So, we need an advanced tab for each that allows us to edit the full spec of ID3 and EXIF tags. Having it as advanced will keep out the new users perhaps.

Well, EXIF data generally isn't to *be* edited - it's archival information for the photo set at the time of photo generation. But I get what you're saying.

Quote:

But then we need to go a stage further and have a super advanced option that allows us to add metadata tags to the existing ID3 and EXIF tags for any given file. These new user defined tags would not get stored in the ID3 and EXIF part of the files as they wont be part of the spec. But they'll get stored somewhere. Such as person for a JPEG file. It's not part of EXIF.

iTunes has a new Grouping tag... iPhoto lets you set any keywords you wish. This is the starting point.

Quote:

If there is a Person attribute for a photo then conceivably, if it was recognised, it could be understood in Address Book and so all things could link to each other in this way. Very powerful!

Super! Eh?

Yes, quite - I've been waiting for this idea to be resurrected since the Newton was cancelled. *ALL* data on the Newton worked this way.

chris cuilla · September 17, 2004 8:44AM

I think the way you guys are talking is exactly the direction Apple is going. Some people have been impatient about this...but Apple is getting there. This stuff takes time (for many reasons).

I recall, a long time ago, some guy posting about where Apple was going, and one thing he mentioned was Apple having this idea of "special purpose Finders" for photos, music, etc. In effect, this is just what is happening. I am guessing that the UI similary among these applications is not the least bit accidental.

I can see this being extended to Address Book, iCal, Mail, etc.

dahacouk · September 17, 2004 11:51AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kickaha

What you're looking for in iPhoto is Keywords.

Hmmm... Just tried Keywords and it doesn't deliver the goods. Rather than setting setting:

Keyword = John Smith

You need to be able to define:

Person = John Smith

So, you need to be able to first define Person as a tag and then say that a given photo has the property: Person = John Smith. Then we can do searches like: Find me all photos with Person = John Smith. But you know what I mean. We all want the same thing...

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla

I think the way you guys are talking is exactly the direction Apple is going. Some people have been impatient about this...but Apple is getting there. This stuff takes time (for many reasons).

Yeah. I think we've just got to keep on talking and nudging or they might get slack! ;-)

Cheers Daniel

mpmoriarty · September 17, 2004 10:01PM

You know, one thing I thought was cool in the 2004 Paris Expo when they were demoing Tiger was when they were showing off Address Book.

I'm not talking about Smart Groups or anything, but another feature of SpotLight they integrated that I am surprised others aren't mentioning more.

When viewing a contact in the Tiger Address Book, they clicked on some option under the person's name that said something like "Display all files related to user". Then SpotLight's system wide menu popped up displaying all the files that had the contacts name in it.

I thought that was a very cool demonstration of how powerful SpotLight can be when properly integrated into an application.

Mike

dahacouk · September 18, 2004 3:48AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MPMoriarty

When viewing a contact in the Tiger Address Book, they clicked on some option under the person's name that said something like "Display all files related to user". Then SpotLight's system wide menu popped up displaying all the files that had the contacts name in it.

That is cool. But I reckon you'll get problems because aren't they just doing a text search for "John Smith" and so it'll bring up any files that contain that text? Which could relate to companies too. I want to be more exact than that. Oh, I know, it's getting there... Softly, softly... ;-)

Cheers Daniel

kickaha · September 18, 2004 12:42PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dahacouk

Hmmm... Just tried Keywords and it doesn't deliver the goods. Rather than setting setting:

You asked about adding metadata to photos... not adding tagged metadata to photos...

Now we're clear.

Quote:

But you know what I mean. We all want the same thing...

Yup.

Tiger question: Adding metadata to files...

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