Have you been to an Apple Store (online or physical)? They do.
They're not Apple mice, but so what? They're solid choices from reputable vendors.
Yes, but when I am spending $2000 plus on a PM, or even 1300 for an iMac, why does apple not add a choice of apple mouse or a basic logitec 2 button scroll mouse at no extra charge? with OEM and volume discounts, apple could buy the logitec mice for 3-5$ each, it must cost that much to make an apple mouse, and what would it hurt?
...Apple Comptuers will now ship with 2-button Apple style mice, similar to 'The Mouse'.
Really, would that be too difficult, Steve? Wonder how many people have looked at a Mac and thought, darn, I have to buy a 3rd party mouse to get real use out of it, even after paying the 'Apple premium'??
Well, i almost always considered a two button mouse very facinorous.
You know, I skipped most of this thread because I've read all the "Two button mice are better" "One button mice rock!" arguments before.
I am a long time pc user and only recently switched to Mac (1.8 single G5 PM) and I have to say the one button mouse is fine for me in everything I choose to do with my Mac.
The only time a one button mouse would be inadequate is gaming.........apart from that EVERY app available on the Mac can be controlled with a one button mouse and the CTRL key.
Short solution......
If you play FPS games buy a two button mouse....if not, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WHINEING?
i kinda like the one mouse button theory. PC users are dumb and even with a simple interface like a keyboard they need something easier. You can be much more efficient, especially in photoshop, by mastering the keyboard/mouse combination and using shortcuts... mac makes you do that and i dont have a prob with it! more people should learn to use their keyboard
A scroll wheel is a kludge... You guys should try an optical trackball, like the Logitech Marble Mouse or the new Kensington one. You can position the cursor more accurately, more quickly, with far less effort. Make sure you try an optical trackball. This is not your father's trackball with its backlash and jerkiness.
the right mouse button and scroll wheel increases my productivity immensley, most of my work is spent in MS Office on a PC.
And MS Office (coupled with Windows) is a bastion of UI design. I'm glad VNCThing allows contol+clicks to be recognized as right-clicks otherwise I could never continue using my one-button at work to remotely admin Windows machines.
In Windows you NEED the contextual menu, not so in Mac OS except for a few pro apps (most of which aren't even created by Apple).
It teaches you to be MORE efficient (keyboard shortcuts) rather than relying on mouse clicks. It's more ergonomic and comfortable, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it's the standard for all past and existing Macs, so moving to 2-buttons means running the risk that you'll be unable to work without it if you don't have it (I work on 4 Macs on a daily basis).
HOWEVER, there is a definite need for a SCROLLING device for web-browsing etc.
The solution: POWERMATE from Griffin.
Right hand on mouse, left hand on Powermate. Comfortable spin to the right to scroll down, spin to the left to scroll up, push down to unleash Expose and show all windows. IT's THE perfect interface. Editing it iMovie/Final Cut is easier as well...
I honestly think it's better than a two-button scroll-wheel mouse.
Don't be lazy..use the arrow keys to scroll up down in a browser. Remember...no one is stopping any of you from buying a new mouse with 20 buttons, slides, shoots, and ladders
It teaches you to be MORE efficient (keyboard shortcuts) rather than relying on mouse clicks. It's more ergonomic and comfortable, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it's the standard for all past and existing Macs, so moving to 2-buttons means running the risk that you'll be unable to work without it if you don't have it (I work on 4 Macs on a daily basis).
HOWEVER, there is a definite need for a SCROLLING device for web-browsing etc.
The solution: POWERMATE from Griffin.
Right hand on mouse, left hand on Powermate. Comfortable spin to the right to scroll down, spin to the left to scroll up, push down to unleash Expose and show all windows. IT's THE perfect interface. Editing it iMovie/Final Cut is easier as well...
I honestly think it's better than a two-button scroll-wheel mouse.
One button mouse teaches you to use keyboard shortcuts? I hear being blind teaches you to feel and hear better, but that is absolutely no reason to want to be blind!
On Windows, I frequently use keyboard *only* because it is faster, or mouse/heavy keyboard use combo. On OS X keyboard only is impossible, so I adjusted to always having to use the mouse, and I use a fair amount of the shortcuts as well, although they are usually not as good so I'm skewed further toward the mouse. In fact, on Windows I only used two buttons and scroll wheel. On OS X, I use those, and third button (wheel click) which is X11 paste, and I use three additional buttons for Expose. So, I use four more mouse buttons on OS X than on Windows. And I need all of them to make the UI experience "flow" about equally with keyboard-only Windows.
What's the fastest place to point with the mouse on the screen? The spot where the mouse is at! This simple fact tells that contextual menus are an important factor in making more efficient and powerful GUIs.
Not being able to use one-button mice after using multi-button ones is bullshit. I regularly carry my Powerbook around without mouse. It is surprisingly nice, I think largely because on the laptop the hands are always very close to both the trackpad, keyboard, ctrl key and F9-F11. But it would not be a huge problem, other than being slower and less comfortable, to use a single button external mouse.
How good multi-button mice are depends on task and application, I think. While web browsing, coding, word processing, playing many games, in X11 apps, a multi button wheel mouse is important. In Photoshop, and most graphics software I've used, the context menu is not at all important.
I also have a Powermate but that has gone 100% unused after the first week. Perfect interface - don't think so. My mouse is better for controlling scrolling and Expose. I speculate it would be alright for video and audio editing, neither of which I ever do.
This debate will never be agreed on... so why do we do it every month or so?
I know a lot of professionals that prefer 2-button mice in os x... I know a few that like 1 button mice. Apple has support for 2-button in their apps... so why not have it be a build to order option at the very least?
I for one can't stand 1 button mice. When I buy a new mac the first 2 things that go in the closet are the keyboard (POS) and the MOUSE. A non-adjustable kb is worthless... no extra keys is worthless... Hell I bought a 10 dollar logitech iTouch keyboard... and it has music buttons to pause, next / prev track... etc. And most importantly... ITS ADJUSTABLE!!!! I can't stand raised keyboards... I spend way too much time on the special keys. The current apple keyboards kill my wrists after only an hour or two of programming. The mouse... same thing... I need 2 button for everything... and yes I was born and raised on macs... but I love contextual menus... makes my work go so much smoother. At the very least apple needs to add a scroll wheel and or another button to the mouse. AND BUILD A NEW F*CKING KEYBOARD!!! Their older keyboards were much better (the previous gen keyboards).
This debate will never be agreed on... so why do we do it every month or so?
Because people like iPoster (and you) continue to press it. And people like me continue to respond.
Logitech alone sells eight keyboards and 32 mice that are Mac compatible. What makes you think Apple could make a keyboard and mouse with which you would be happy? I could be in the minority, but I'm very satisfied with the mouse and keyboard that came with my Mac. If I wasn't, I would simply go out and buy something else. What's the big deal? One typically has to buy more memory for a new computer and sometimes a new mouse if one is not satisfied. That's the beauty of third party manufacturers.
The big deal is I just paid 2k for a dual 2.0 (dev discount) and have to turn around and spend another 100 on keyboard and mouse. Its stupid. Their old mac keyboard worked just fine. I am a Mac Programmer. People that live on these keyboards are the ones that should be asked what they need.
I wouldn't mind their keyboard if it WAS ADJUSTABLE!!! They went from an awesome design (their old one was perfect) to this cheap poor design. Are you on their new keyboard? You would have had to have bought a mac within the last 10 months. Their original white iMac keyboards were the good ones... the ones that came with the g4 powermacs.
Mouse I don't really care too much cause their mice suck for professional work. gee I love dragging on their mice... give me a break. Mouse oh well... keyboard is a must change... at least add the damn adjustability.
I wouldn't mind their keyboard if it WAS ADJUSTABLE!!! They went from an awesome design (their old one was perfect) to this cheap poor design. Are you on their new keyboard?
On this point I agree. I don't have the new keyboard you have (haven't tried it). I also prefer my keyboard to be flat; not raised in the back.
The big deal is I just paid 2k for a dual 2.0 (dev discount) and have to turn around and spend another 100 on keyboard and mouse. Its stupid. Their old mac keyboard worked just fine. I am a Mac Programmer. People that live on these keyboards are the ones that should be asked what they need.
I spend a fair amount of time on the keyboard too, and both new and old ones suck. Once you've worked with Alps switches the rest are like typing on those rubber keyboards. You know, the ones that you can roll up. Yeah.
Their one button mouse, OTOH I can live with. So sorry you can't.
Comments
Originally posted by Amorph
Have you been to an Apple Store (online or physical)? They do.
They're not Apple mice, but so what? They're solid choices from reputable vendors.
Yes, but when I am spending $2000 plus on a PM, or even 1300 for an iMac, why does apple not add a choice of apple mouse or a basic logitec 2 button scroll mouse at no extra charge? with OEM and volume discounts, apple could buy the logitec mice for 3-5$ each, it must cost that much to make an apple mouse, and what would it hurt?
Originally posted by iPoster
...Apple Comptuers will now ship with 2-button Apple style mice, similar to 'The Mouse'.
Really, would that be too difficult, Steve? Wonder how many people have looked at a Mac and thought, darn, I have to buy a 3rd party mouse to get real use out of it, even after paying the 'Apple premium'??
Well, i almost always considered a two button mouse very facinorous.
PS: Not to mention the scroll wheel. uhh.
I am a long time pc user and only recently switched to Mac (1.8 single G5 PM) and I have to say the one button mouse is fine for me in everything I choose to do with my Mac.
The only time a one button mouse would be inadequate is gaming.........apart from that EVERY app available on the Mac can be controlled with a one button mouse and the CTRL key.
Short solution......
If you play FPS games buy a two button mouse....if not, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WHINEING?
the right mouse button and scroll wheel increases my productivity immensley, most of my work is spent in MS Office on a PC.
Originally posted by AsLan^
the right mouse button and scroll wheel increases my productivity immensley, most of my work is spent in MS Office on a PC.
And MS Office (coupled with Windows) is a bastion of UI design. I'm glad VNCThing allows contol+clicks to be recognized as right-clicks otherwise I could never continue using my one-button at work to remotely admin Windows machines.
In Windows you NEED the contextual menu, not so in Mac OS except for a few pro apps (most of which aren't even created by Apple).
It teaches you to be MORE efficient (keyboard shortcuts) rather than relying on mouse clicks. It's more ergonomic and comfortable, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it's the standard for all past and existing Macs, so moving to 2-buttons means running the risk that you'll be unable to work without it if you don't have it (I work on 4 Macs on a daily basis).
HOWEVER, there is a definite need for a SCROLLING device for web-browsing etc.
The solution: POWERMATE from Griffin.
Right hand on mouse, left hand on Powermate. Comfortable spin to the right to scroll down, spin to the left to scroll up, push down to unleash Expose and show all windows. IT's THE perfect interface. Editing it iMovie/Final Cut is easier as well...
I honestly think it's better than a two-button scroll-wheel mouse.
Seriously though, if you want a two-button mouse, buy one, for about $15. Macs come with a one-button mouse. Get used to it.
Originally posted by iDave
...
Seriously though, if you want a two-button mouse, buy one, for about $15. Macs come with a one-button mouse. Get used to it.
This is quite an answer, man.
Originally posted by Sport73
I'm firmly in the one-button mouse camp.
It teaches you to be MORE efficient (keyboard shortcuts) rather than relying on mouse clicks. It's more ergonomic and comfortable, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it's the standard for all past and existing Macs, so moving to 2-buttons means running the risk that you'll be unable to work without it if you don't have it (I work on 4 Macs on a daily basis).
HOWEVER, there is a definite need for a SCROLLING device for web-browsing etc.
The solution: POWERMATE from Griffin.
Right hand on mouse, left hand on Powermate. Comfortable spin to the right to scroll down, spin to the left to scroll up, push down to unleash Expose and show all windows. IT's THE perfect interface. Editing it iMovie/Final Cut is easier as well...
I honestly think it's better than a two-button scroll-wheel mouse.
One button mouse teaches you to use keyboard shortcuts? I hear being blind teaches you to feel and hear better, but that is absolutely no reason to want to be blind!
On Windows, I frequently use keyboard *only* because it is faster, or mouse/heavy keyboard use combo. On OS X keyboard only is impossible, so I adjusted to always having to use the mouse, and I use a fair amount of the shortcuts as well, although they are usually not as good so I'm skewed further toward the mouse. In fact, on Windows I only used two buttons and scroll wheel. On OS X, I use those, and third button (wheel click) which is X11 paste, and I use three additional buttons for Expose. So, I use four more mouse buttons on OS X than on Windows. And I need all of them to make the UI experience "flow" about equally with keyboard-only Windows.
What's the fastest place to point with the mouse on the screen? The spot where the mouse is at! This simple fact tells that contextual menus are an important factor in making more efficient and powerful GUIs.
Not being able to use one-button mice after using multi-button ones is bullshit. I regularly carry my Powerbook around without mouse. It is surprisingly nice, I think largely because on the laptop the hands are always very close to both the trackpad, keyboard, ctrl key and F9-F11. But it would not be a huge problem, other than being slower and less comfortable, to use a single button external mouse.
How good multi-button mice are depends on task and application, I think. While web browsing, coding, word processing, playing many games, in X11 apps, a multi button wheel mouse is important. In Photoshop, and most graphics software I've used, the context menu is not at all important.
I also have a Powermate but that has gone 100% unused after the first week. Perfect interface - don't think so. My mouse is better for controlling scrolling and Expose. I speculate it would be alright for video and audio editing, neither of which I ever do.
Originally posted by Gon
On OS X keyboard only is impossible...
BZZZZZT.
System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> click 'Turn on Full Keyboard Access'
Voila. You can now use the keyboard more thoroughly than even on Windows.
I know a lot of professionals that prefer 2-button mice in os x... I know a few that like 1 button mice. Apple has support for 2-button in their apps... so why not have it be a build to order option at the very least?
I for one can't stand 1 button mice. When I buy a new mac the first 2 things that go in the closet are the keyboard (POS) and the MOUSE. A non-adjustable kb is worthless... no extra keys is worthless... Hell I bought a 10 dollar logitech iTouch keyboard... and it has music buttons to pause, next / prev track... etc. And most importantly... ITS ADJUSTABLE!!!! I can't stand raised keyboards... I spend way too much time on the special keys. The current apple keyboards kill my wrists after only an hour or two of programming. The mouse... same thing... I need 2 button for everything... and yes I was born and raised on macs... but I love contextual menus... makes my work go so much smoother. At the very least apple needs to add a scroll wheel and or another button to the mouse. AND BUILD A NEW F*CKING KEYBOARD!!! Their older keyboards were much better (the previous gen keyboards).
Originally posted by emig647
This debate will never be agreed on... so why do we do it every month or so?
Because people like iPoster (and you) continue to press it.
Logitech alone sells eight keyboards and 32 mice that are Mac compatible. What makes you think Apple could make a keyboard and mouse with which you would be happy? I could be in the minority, but I'm very satisfied with the mouse and keyboard that came with my Mac. If I wasn't, I would simply go out and buy something else. What's the big deal? One typically has to buy more memory for a new computer and sometimes a new mouse if one is not satisfied. That's the beauty of third party manufacturers.
I wouldn't mind their keyboard if it WAS ADJUSTABLE!!! They went from an awesome design (their old one was perfect) to this cheap poor design. Are you on their new keyboard? You would have had to have bought a mac within the last 10 months. Their original white iMac keyboards were the good ones... the ones that came with the g4 powermacs.
Mouse I don't really care too much cause their mice suck for professional work. gee I love dragging on their mice... give me a break. Mouse oh well... keyboard is a must change... at least add the damn adjustability.
Originally posted by emig647
I wouldn't mind their keyboard if it WAS ADJUSTABLE!!! They went from an awesome design (their old one was perfect) to this cheap poor design. Are you on their new keyboard?
On this point I agree. I don't have the new keyboard you have (haven't tried it). I also prefer my keyboard to be flat; not raised in the back.
Originally posted by emig647
The big deal is I just paid 2k for a dual 2.0 (dev discount) and have to turn around and spend another 100 on keyboard and mouse. Its stupid. Their old mac keyboard worked just fine. I am a Mac Programmer. People that live on these keyboards are the ones that should be asked what they need.
I spend a fair amount of time on the keyboard too, and both new and old ones suck.
Their one button mouse, OTOH I can live with. So sorry you can't.
Originally posted by iDave
On this point I agree. I don't have the new keyboard you have (haven't tried it). I also prefer my keyboard to be flat; not raised in the back.
EXACTLY!!! FLAT!!! Praise iDave!!!
God is that so much to ask for? The new raised keyboards kill my wrists like no other.