Diet - Whats good for you and the kids?
Bye bye Twinkies
I was reading this article and thinking about how certain diet fads have seriously altered the financial states of companies recently. (Basically the low-carb thing)
I know several people around here have very strong opinions about what we should eat. Some have even stronger opinions about what our children should eat. Strangely enough, I encountered an article about a recent custody case involving Vegans and the diet they have fed their child. It led to the state taking their child from them. On the flip side, we also seem to have more restaurants around then ever and some have taken to suing the ones they think do not have good dietary practices. Finally, I work as an elementary school teacher and see the "free" lunches that most districts provide for the children each day. Most of them would make McDonald's look nutritional as they contain large amounts of empty calories and very little nutrition.
So in otherwords, food is a big deal.
What is your view on these matters with regard to yourself and also with government? What do you personally think is the best way to eat with regard to health? Also what role do you think the government should play with regard to diet in our lives and what should be their limits with regard to enforcing or overseeing that role?
This is becoming a new area of interest for me and so I don't claim any expertise. Please post plenty of links about any sources of diet information you think would be helpful.
Nick
I was reading this article and thinking about how certain diet fads have seriously altered the financial states of companies recently. (Basically the low-carb thing)
I know several people around here have very strong opinions about what we should eat. Some have even stronger opinions about what our children should eat. Strangely enough, I encountered an article about a recent custody case involving Vegans and the diet they have fed their child. It led to the state taking their child from them. On the flip side, we also seem to have more restaurants around then ever and some have taken to suing the ones they think do not have good dietary practices. Finally, I work as an elementary school teacher and see the "free" lunches that most districts provide for the children each day. Most of them would make McDonald's look nutritional as they contain large amounts of empty calories and very little nutrition.
So in otherwords, food is a big deal.
What is your view on these matters with regard to yourself and also with government? What do you personally think is the best way to eat with regard to health? Also what role do you think the government should play with regard to diet in our lives and what should be their limits with regard to enforcing or overseeing that role?
This is becoming a new area of interest for me and so I don't claim any expertise. Please post plenty of links about any sources of diet information you think would be helpful.
Nick
Comments
Here in Norway the trend is americanization. People are getting fatter, and along with that dieting is also getting more popular. We still have a tradition of eating bread for lunch. Which I hate, but I guess it's pretty good for the common health. Wonder how long that tradition will last?
I have a Child myself, and I try keep a healty diet. But the biggest problem is the absence of quick and cheep healty alternatives. It's really depressing to see how my 3-year old already wants to go into every McDonalds we pass and can name the Coca Cola logo.
Luckily she loves rice and fruit, so we try to eat a lot of Asian and Indian dishes.
Forgive me for re-stating the obvious here, but...
we eat far too much refined sugar and salt; if you make your own food you eat less because you won't be boosting the flavour with a heavy hand. You also eat less food, full stop, and my theory is that this is because you enjoy it more. I know that this is impossible to quantify, but I'm still sure it's true.
Refined sugar's really bad news and it's everywhere. Carbohydrates that simple don't appear in nature and within a few generations we've all become addicted to the stuff.
I'm not an anti-sugar evangelist (I LIKE PUDDING) but I do try and sweeten my yoghurt with honey and stuff rather than sugar, and I don't eat cereals for breakfast.
But, um, yeah, make your own food, and eat sensibly, and that's the place to start. Vegetables and fruit and stuff.
So by drinking flouridated water in youth (really, more of an example scenario), people may be setting themselves up for a fat life. There may be many vectors for promoting obesity or partial obesity through genetic expression. It is an interesting course of study, and I think we'll see it picked up soon.
As for diet, eat what you need. Take a vitamin if you need. calories in = calories out. Quite simple. People don't tend to realize that in many Asian countries food is either scarce or very expensive. That's a pretty big motivator for not eating so much. The Chinese guy (American) who works next door and listens to Blondie is a fat, out-of-shape, blubber ball. He puts down a great deal of food. There's nothing particularly special about one type of food versus another so long as you stop eating when you realize you've had enough, or stop eating because you run out of money.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
This sounds weird, but I honestly wonder if something like water flouridation has some affect on genetic expression.
Purity of essence and all that. Can't let the man contaminate my precious bodily fluids.
Eat many meals a day, five is preferable.
Eat lots of protein, especially fish, and fresh vegetables.
Eat carbs, but try to keep their consumption at the same level as protein. Most people eat a lot more carbs and too little protein.
Eat little to none: alcoholic drinks, soda, sweets, potato chips, ice cream.
If you use salt, cut down salt use. Personally I only put salt in meat, and not always even that - just like with soda and other stuff, after a while of not using any you don't necessarily even want salt anymore.
This seven-sentence advice is better than most whole diet books. It's mostly the kind of common sense stuff that *everyone* knows; the only things that aren't obvious to everyone are that you should eat often and that you should intentionally increase protein intake. If you eat like that, you'll be fine. It goes without saying that no matter what kind of diet, people do not generally remain healthy if they don't exercise. If you need to drop excess weight, it will help if you cut total calorie intake (but intelligently! consult sports/bodybuilding literature, not "diet books").
Originally posted by Gon
If a normal person (non-athlete) wants to eat healthy, this much advice is enough:
Eat many meals a day, five is preferable.
Eat lots of protein, especially fish, and fresh vegetables.
Eat carbs, but try to keep their consumption at the same level as protein. Most people eat a lot more carbs and too little protein.
Eat little to none: alcoholic drinks, soda, sweets, potato chips, ice cream.
If you use salt, cut down salt use. Personally I only put salt in meat, and not always even that - just like with soda and other stuff, after a while of not using any you don't necessarily even want salt anymore.
This seven-sentence advice is better than most whole diet books. It's mostly the kind of common sense stuff that *everyone* knows; the only things that aren't obvious to everyone are that you should eat often and that you should intentionally increase protein intake. If you eat like that, you'll be fine. It goes without saying that no matter what kind of diet, people do not generally remain healthy if they don't exercise. If you need to drop excess weight, it will help if you cut total calorie intake (but intelligently! consult sports/bodybuilding literature, not "diet books").
I completely agree that people ought to ignore most diet books, which are by and large simply money making enterprises with no concern for science, but I'm not sure about a few of your suggestions. Can you point to any reputable (i.e., non-Atkins? stuff) that indicates people don't eat enough protein? Also, unless you're hypertensive, there's no reason for most people to cut back on salt, as far as I know.
I'm married to a registered dietitian, and she says that most of the advice that focuses on "types" of food, like carbs vs. proteins, is bad advice. People in the US today simply consume too many calories. Analyzing carbs vs. proteins really just misses the point.
I like your advice about 5 meals. My wife says that it's a good idea to have snacks during the day in addition to your meals, otherwise people lose control and pig out during and after their meals. But your snacks should basically be mini- meals. They should have some variety in them, like your meals. On the other hand, the way some people pig out, telling them to do it 5 times rather than 3 may not be the best advice.
Three or four seems to be the standard most places around the world.
Eat carbs, but try to keep their consumption at the same level as protein.
Thats fucking insane. Even when drinking a glass of milk you can´t enforce that.
Yes please feel free to do that if you are on a diet. But unless you never move you´ll need more carbs than that.
My diet consist of 120-150 gr protein, 400 gr carbs and as little fat as possible and I have no problems at all.
I just had four 8 inch soft tacos with some vegetables and a pint of milk. 120 gr of carbs just there. Should I live from eggs and chicken for the rest of the day?
Originally posted by New
How the hell is one supposed to fit FIVE meal into a day? I don't get it. A hobbitesque second breakfast maybe?
Three or four seems to be the standard most places around the world.
Heh. Easy enough. I have a light breakfast. At work I have lunch and somekind of snack in between meeting and lunch and between lunch and leaving. At home I eat something in from the door and then again a real dinner later. Six meals not including fruits throughout the day.
A lot of the whole diet thing is mental and it just takes a little effort to break the old habits and start new ones. I'm at the point now where I find most chips and snakes to be too salty for my taste since I'm just not consuming them like I used to.
Originally posted by Anders
Thats fucking insane. Even when drinking a glass of milk you can´t enforce that.
Yes please feel free to do that if you are on a diet. But unless you never move you´ll need more carbs than that.
My diet consist of 120-150 gr protein, 400 gr carbs and as little fat as possible and I have no problems at all.
I just had four 8 inch soft tacos with some vegetables and a pint of milk. 120 gr of carbs just there. Should I live from eggs and chicken for the rest of the day?
You are right about the amounts. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. It should be enough to get (2x your weight) gr protein per day.
Some fat intake is important, because it lets you process fat soluble vitamins. In addition to that, the body needs some specific fats to function well. Fish is particularly good in that regard.
Originally posted by Gon
You are right about the amounts. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. It should be enough to get (2x your weight) gr protein per day.
Some fat intake is important, because it lets you process fat soluble vitamins. In addition to that, the body needs some specific fats to function well. Fish is particularly good in that regard.
THAT I agree with
Originally posted by BRussell
I completely agree that people ought to ignore most diet books, which are by and large simply money making enterprises with no concern for science, but I'm not sure about a few of your suggestions. Can you point to any reputable (i.e., non-Atkins? stuff) that indicates people don't eat enough protein? Also, unless you're hypertensive, there's no reason for most people to cut back on salt, as far as I know.
I'm married to a registered dietitian, and she says that most of the advice that focuses on "types" of food, like carbs vs. proteins, is bad advice. People in the US today simply consume too many calories. Analyzing carbs vs. proteins really just misses the point.
I have read quite a bit of sports nutrition stuff which all points to that protein is beneficial. Not being a nutrition professional or a real athlete, I don't remember any specific papers or such, but there is lots of scientific research out there that you can find with a web search. It says a lot that athletes, whose life and success are tied to their health and performance, *do* eat a lot of protein.
Being married to a dietitian, you probably know the "point" of Atkins is eating very little carbs, which leads to a state called ketosis. It means some processes in the body go into a totally another mode of action, and the effects of Atkins (in good and bad) are mostly dependent on this. If you just up your protein intake, and eat just a little less carbs than before, such a switch does not happen. In my knowledge there is no downside to a simple high protein diet.
I'll turn the salt thing backward and ask if there is a researched reason to eat any extra salt? AFAIK you get all you need and more even if you only consume the salt that is in the food components. A quick web search for "salt health" turned up lots of results including this from the UK FDA:
http://www.food.gov.uk/healthiereati...minsaz/sodium/
You can certainly overeat with anything, but by common sense logic it's harder to do that when you consume lots of meat and vegetables. Vegetables (well, most of them) have little calories, so they stuff your stomach without much energy intake. Meat has a lot of water in it as well, and gives a "full" feeling in the stomach pretty easily.
Originally posted by Gon
I have read quite a bit of sports nutrition stuff which all points to that protein is beneficial. Not being a nutrition professional or a real athlete, I don't remember any specific papers or such, but there is lots of scientific research out there that you can find with a web search. It says a lot that athletes, whose life and success are tied to their health and performance, *do* eat a lot of protein.
But you started your post with this:
If a normal person (non-athlete) wants to eat healthy, this much advice is enough:
Athletes do a lot of really bad things with their diets. I'll have to ask da wife about protein and athletes.
Being married to a dietitian, you probably know the "point" of Atkins is eating very little carbs, which leads to a state called ketosis. It means some processes in the body go into a totally another mode of action, and the effects of Atkins (in good and bad) are mostly dependent on this. If you just up your protein intake, and eat just a little less carbs than before, such a switch does not happen. In my knowledge there is no downside to a simple high protein diet.
Being married to a real dietitian gives me this perspective on Atkins: It's crap. Total, unadulterated, crap. It takes just about everything that is known through science about nutrition and says "do the opposite." I do believe people have lost weight on the diet, but that's because carbs do and should make up a large portion of you caloric intake, and if you cut out a large portion of calories you're going to lose weight. But ketosis is a bad thing, not a good thing. Sure people eat too much sugary stuff. But people already eat too much protein too. People eat too many calories, period. People need to consume less calories and burn more calories. Anything that says anything else is non-scientific and is simply trying to make money.
I believe there are problems with too much protein, but the main issue is that with protein usually comes fat, which has more calories and other unhealthy stuff.
I'll turn the salt thing backward and ask if there is a researched reason to eat any extra salt? AFAIK you get all you need and more even if you only consume the salt that is in the food components. A quick web search for "salt health" turned up lots of results including this from the UK FDA:
http://www.food.gov.uk/healthiereati...minsaz/sodium/
I'm not saying that tons of salt is good, just that it wouldn't be on a list of a few things to do to eat healthy. My understanding is that salt intake should be reduced if you have high blood pressure, but its not believed to cause high blood pressure.
You can certainly overeat with anything, but by common sense logic it's harder to do that when you consume lots of meat and vegetables. Vegetables (well, most of them) have little calories, so they stuff your stomach without much energy intake. Meat has a lot of water in it as well, and gives a "full" feeling in the stomach pretty easily.
I agree that it's a good idea to eat things that make you feel full. Soup is really good in that way. In general, its good to eat stuff that has a high volume-to-calorie ratio: Fill your stomach with things with not many calories. But meat fails that test miserably, because meat has a lot of fat, and fat has more calories than either protein or carbs by volume, and so the ratio of fullness-to-calories is worse for meat than other stuff.
Originally posted by chych
In my experience, the most understated thing about losing weight is the part about exercise, and I find that this is the most important thing one should take part in. At least for me, if anything, I don't need to pay attention to what I eat (i.e. I eat all that unhealthy stuff I'm not supposed to eat). So long as I hit the gym or play some sports several times per week, I'm in good shape.
True, and actually I think that exercise should come before nutrition for real couch potatoes. Still, a frequent hard exerciser would not be in "good" but *excellent* shape after switching from poor diet to a good one. In addition to that, frequent hard exercise makes your body consume a lot more things besides calories, and diet should reflect this. If, for instance, vitamins and minerals are depleted by exercise-induced muscle tissue repair, too little may remain to keep your immune system working, and you may get sick easier. You might also be unable to repair the damage done by the training, which exposes you to different sorts of physical injury, prevents recovery from exercise, and stumps or reverses your strength gains.
While researching sports nutrition, I have gotten the impression that the most important thing in efficient fat burning is manipulating your hormone levels so that the body is constantly in fat burning mode. You can do such manipulation by choices and scheduling of diet, exercise and rest. This takes knowledge. The time needed for actual exercise is *very* short if you know exactly what to do, and have the mental toughness to really push yourself in training. 20mins daily could be enough. There is the caveat that your joints and ligaments need to be strong to take intensive exercise, and if they aren't yet, you have to start with less intense stuff which takes more time. Likewise if you are not sure what to do. Train intelligently. You can multiply your success, avoid injury and (IMO) have more fun at training by reading just a few good books.
Importantly, if you just cut your calorie intake a lot, keep the nutrition content the same (bad), and do little exercise, you will melt away your muscle even faster than the fat. Muscle tissue is useful in that it consumes a lot of calories even at rest. Therefore, having some is a great help in maintaining your goal weight when you get there. If you have consumed away the fat *and* the muscle, you can eat far less than when you started, and still gain fat, because the muscle is no longer there to burn some of the calorie.
You should see "Super-Size Me" A large portion of it addresses a lot of your points very well. (it's not all McD's bashing)
In general fad diets are stupid. The weight always comes back when people slip back into old habits, and 99% of people slip back. The sad fact is that the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to eat sensibly and exercise.
A good friend of mine has taken every over-the-counter diet pill she could get, rides her exercise bike an hour a day, yet is still fat. Why? She won't get her heart rate up enough to break a sweat (She says she hates to sweat), and a common lunch for her is fettuccine alfredo, bread, a couple of cokes and a quick trip to Coffee Bean for a large ice blended: and that's lunch. That's gotta be 2000 calories right there.
I can understand that it's difficult for people today, especially with kids. Most parents don't have the time to cook three meals a day, and I'm sure the little darlings can be quite adamant about getting the latest Hot Pocket, or whatever bit of flavored sawdust they're hawking at the moment.
I almost give McDonalds a pass- unless you're an idiot, you have to know that thier stuff ain't good for you. It's the "healthy" fast food places that have more to answer for IMHO. Out here we have Koo Koo Roo, which became big based on it's skinless chicken and low-fat sides. So people like my friend think they are doing really well to have that Chinese Chicken salad. Since it's 550 calories, you might as well have a Big Mac for all of the calories you save. Oh wait, you want dressing on that? Add another 325 calories. May as well get fries with that Big Mac. Chipolte Chicken wrap? Over 900 calories. Or try 12 buffalo wings without sauce. That's over 1200 calories. What the hell, go for the sauce. It's only 28 more calories. Try the chicken tostada bowl (528 calories). Of course if you eat the tostada part it's another 403 calories, and if you want dressing you can add anywhere up to 600 calories more. That's healthy eatin' at fresh, fast flavorful Koo Koo Roo, because, as they put it "you promised yourself you'd eat better"
I do like their chicken, though.