Bad idea. People who has server at home are some kind of computer experts. They are using old UNIX machines which they have 'saved' (got) from their office or they have good old Linux box.
<strong>Bad idea. People who has server at home are some kind of computer experts. They are using old UNIX machines which they have 'saved' (got) from their office or they have good old Linux box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm talking about bringin it to a new market with Apps designed for home use...One potential iApp would be a video library, store the footage on the servers HD, catalog multiple removable HD's, and bring up the program you want...say the September 12 Bears game...when you want without going through a bunch of DVD's or tapes...the same with iTunes, store an entire library remotely on the server and pull what you need to your local HD...iPhoto, dito...Plus it acts as a Web server for your personal home page, with built in FireWire for your broadband connection to the internet.
<strong>Bad idea. People who has server at home are some kind of computer experts. They are using old UNIX machines which they have 'saved' (got) from their office or they have good old Linux box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So let's remove the word 'server', it's just scaring people anyway.
No one looks at my Airport Base Station and says 'oooh, geek-boy's got himself a SERVER' Yet it is a DHCP server. The 'server' features that I'd like to see in a set-top really are pretty trivial, and anyone who has ever been in an actual 'machine room' full of racks would fall off their chair if you called it a server.
There's a couple slightly separate things I'm looking for:
1) Swat the broadband thing one more time. Take the Airport basestation to the next level - talk to the DSL/Cablemodem/Satellite folken and get it set so I only need _one_ widget. The current ABS needs updates to newer protocols anyway.
2) Doing the Tivo/Replay thing. But with a Quicktime Streaming _SERVER_ in it. Shhh, I mean, let me watch from another room.
3) DVD Burner.
Each one of those costs money. That's why a couple of the above people are like 'Whoa, big bucks!'
But let's make it a $300 box for #2 _alone_. (Or #1 alone - wait, we're doing that one). With the other two as options.
Apple has all the pieces for this. I think Apple could do this _well_. My only concern would be the MPAA/Viacom. They get antsy when you combine FireWIre, DVD, and burner in the same sentence.
(If Apple was better off financially, I'd hope they _WOULD_ make this, now like, because they would be able to show how the DMCA is impeding things if sued, and have lawyers looking for work anyway.)
There's a couple slightly separate things I'm looking for:
1) Swat the broadband thing one more time. Take the Airport basestation to the next level - talk to the DSL/Cablemodem/Satellite folken and get it set so I only need _one_ widget. The current ABS needs updates to newer protocols anyway.
2) Doing the Tivo/Replay thing. But with a Quicktime Streaming _SERVER_ in it. Shhh, I mean, let me watch from another room.
3) DVD Burner.
Each one of those costs money. That's why a couple of the above people are like 'Whoa, big bucks!'
But let's make it a $300 box for #2 _alone_. (Or #1 alone - wait, we're doing that one). With the other two as options.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Completely agree that server is not the most appealing&userfriendly word..
But i do not agree on price-evaluations. whatever Apple offers, it will be better+more stylish+easier to use+state of the art tech(well, not always). this is not being sold in TiVo-level.
look at the ipod, it was screaming expensive compared to competition, but... so Apple (? > don't we just love that..)
also, did anybody manage to open an ipod, change batteries etc.? guess not, because Apple want to control consumer-use as much as possible, and this will be a consumer device as the tech-wary already has their server Lan/Wlan etc.
the ability to use the tv to play games directly from the device. as a parent this would liberate my machine a bit more often.. so game console-abel, what form this would take in regarding software/games/platform i am not sure, <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
You just described something would cost roughly, maybe, 1500 bucks. 512MB to a Gig of RAM? 2 Hot swapable drives? Two proccesors, for under 500 bucks? Look at the iBook, the lowest priced computer Apple is making right now, and that is 1000 bucks for less capabilites than you are thinking of.you are living in a dream world, one surrounded by money trees that grow money, and such
And both of you are right to a greater or lesser degree, but are not looking at the problem in a suffficiently lateral way to get the required solution.
In my previous contributions to similar threads, I put forward the view that by creating a Server Appliance with 2 or 3 (user-upgradable) PCI-X slots would allow the customer to take a core PVR/DAB server and upgrade it to provide the STB and Telephony functions to which I referred.
Assuming that 970 (or similar) becomes a reality in twelve months, Moto will welcome a bulk customer for 500/667/750MHz+ G4 processors probably at an aggressive selling price merely to increase the cash-cow phase of that processor's lifecycle.
This creates an opportunity to design a dual-processor 667 G4 based home server using dual 80GB disk drives. Additional drive capacity is provided via the Firewire port(s), which then creates customer choice - want more, pay more; want faster, buy faster.
Whether you can deliver this for $500 now is irrelevant, it's whether you can deliver it for $450 in twelve months and still make a profit that's important, which is where the whole concept of having content and services that can be packaged in on a subscription basis becomes a factor.
Now obviously the EPG has to be free in its basic form, but what if the EPG had a "pro" superset of features (like Tivo's SeasonPass [or whatever it's called]) for which you can charge monthly fees. Additional chargable services could include downloadable 'pay-per-view' movies (once the digital-rights issues have been sorted and alliances/partnerships established) or niche interactive content (which could be educational or adult or professional or sports).
I'm not saying this is the only way forward, but Apple has to recognise (as per Tivo or Sony's Playstation arm) that selling the box once is no longer enough, and that the longer game is take a slice of the salami every month. My pet theory, that's all.
<strong>I'm talking about bringin it to a new market with Apps designed for home use...One potential iApp would be a video library, store the footage on the servers HD, catalog multiple removable HD's, and bring up the program you want...say the September 12 Bears game...when you want without going through a bunch of DVD's or tapes...the same with iTunes, store an entire library remotely on the server and pull what you need to your local HD...iPhoto, dito...Plus it acts as a Web server for your personal home page, with built in FireWire for your broadband connection to the internet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The biggest problem I see with this is convincing the consumer he needs to add yet another machine to his household, a machine which by and large duplicates functionality already present in his current machine. Say you already have a reasonably powerful Mac. Hard drives are getting cheaper and more capacious by the month. Why buy a whole other machine just to store multimedia? I can see where you're going with this, but I don't think we're quite there yet, if we ever will be. If anything, we're going in the opposite direction.
Hey, if you have 3 Macs in a household, each with its own iTunes library, each Mac will soon be able to play the libraries of all 3 Macs, sans server. This is the magic of Rendezvous, and this is why a generalized server that provides no extra functionality would be, IMHO, folly.
That's why a Tivo device works so well. It replaces a VCR/DVD player, not adds to and just happens to be network enabled to handle iTunes. Now you can get rid of your 300cd changer as well... I want to eliminate boxes from my living room, not add to them..
It is like putting the Home Entertainment center on your network, in a box, with a UI.. this might appeal to some people to remove all of the stuff (DVD player, CD player, (tape player?) Tivo, if some have it) and have more state-of-the-art features...
I think that people would have to subscribe to .Mac to use some of the services, y'know? Makes sense, no?
I think that people would like the idea of hot-swappable drives...
it would be the same volume as an XServer, just not as deep or as wide, but taller and in an iBook casing.... sort of clear, rubbery feel to it <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>That's why a Tivo device works so well. It replaces a VCR/DVD player, not adds to and just happens to be network enabled to handle iTunes. Now you can get rid of your 300cd changer as well... I want to eliminate boxes from my living room, not add to them..</strong><hr></blockquote>
The biggest problem with this is that it does replace a VCR and DVD, so it places Apple in direct competition with every company that produces VCR's and DVD players. These are the same companies that Apple will want to adopt Rendevue in other home entertainment components, as well as Firewire 2. I'm not sure that Apple could get away with this...sure Sony might use some Apple tech even though they compete in the Computer market, but if Apple started competing in too many areas, then I'm sure that Sony would be less likely to help Apple standerdize their technology.
There is a real razor's edge to walk with the idea of making a hardware home box thingy with the abilities (at least some of them) you're all describing.
If Apple continues the digital hub concept that it has been using so far with the Mac as the hub and everybody's periferals as spokes, then:
1. Apple keeps Sony, Phillips, etc. happy.
2. Apple saves R&D costs
3. Apple demonstrates its desire for open standards, etc.
4. Apple keeps its focus on a few, good products.
However Apple HAS been doing this for a few years now and it hasn't lit a fire under enough switchers to be significant, I feel.
So it may be time for Apple to make a HomeBox if for no other reason than to spark the imagination of the public. It could still use all of the components from Sony et al., but labelling the box as an Apple product would gain the company mindshare and an important icon for the digital hub in the way the iPod has done for mp3's.
There has got to be an iDevice in the basement somewhere that is going to get people to switch from PC's to Macs and incremental additions of a Ericsson cell phone here and a Phillips Tivo there will only attract people like us who get the digital hub idea already....and we are already Apple customers.
Microsoft needed a physical box (icon) to further its plans in the gaming world ... so it made the XBox. Apple may have to do something just as big.
What if Apple is obviating the NEED for these other things (like TiVO for example)?
Stay with me here. I am (seriously) thinking about buying a (20GB) iPod, ripping ALL of my CDs, moth-balling my 300 CD jukebox. In this sense, Apple IS competing with these other companies and their devices.
What is TiVO? A hard drive + scheduler + MPEG encoder + UI (driven from TV remote).
Well, what if my iMac was the "hub" with the hard drive, and iCal was my scheduler. The iMac does the recording/encoding...now I just need a way to put this on my TV. Could Rendevous + 802.11g do this to my (new) Sony (or Philips) Rendevous-enabled TV?
<strong>So I'm thinking more about this concept...
What if Apple is obviating the NEED for these other things (like TiVO for example)?
Stay with me here. I am (seriously) thinking about buying a (20GB) iPod, ripping ALL of my CDs, moth-balling my 300 CD jukebox. In this sense, Apple IS competing with these other companies and their devices.
What is TiVO? A hard drive + scheduler + MPEG encoder + UI (driven from TV remote).
Well, what if my iMac was the "hub" with the hard drive, and iCal was my scheduler. The iMac does the recording/encoding...now I just need a way to put this on my TV. Could Rendevous + 802.11g do this to my (new) Sony (or Philips) Rendevous-enabled TV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I understand it you want to do the encoding in hardware if possable, it is more efficient and wont be adversly affected if your processer is bieng taxed by other tasks that it is bieng asked to do. It is easier for it to just be responsable for writing the dv to disk (less chance of droped frames). Therefore I think that you would want a DVD player/digital tuner that could be networked. If you want to record a tv show, your device encodes it and sends it via whatever network connection you have to your Macs hard drive. You want to watch a previously recorded movie or TV show, dial it up on the device and it sends a call to the mac to retrieve the encoded file. Your Mac is not taxed when someone is watching tv while you are rendering that 3-D animation, and surfing the web. Apple builds as little hardware as possable to make it work, and the software. This appeases the Appliance makers, and makes them more likely to build compatable appliances. In the future, after it is established enough, Apple might be able to compete on a more level playing field, but at the begining they should stay away from direct competition and just build the backbone hardware/software combination to make it work and as painless to set up as possable.
Comments
<strong>Bad idea. People who has server at home are some kind of computer experts. They are using old UNIX machines which they have 'saved' (got) from their office or they have good old Linux box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm talking about bringin it to a new market with Apps designed for home use...One potential iApp would be a video library, store the footage on the servers HD, catalog multiple removable HD's, and bring up the program you want...say the September 12 Bears game...when you want without going through a bunch of DVD's or tapes...the same with iTunes, store an entire library remotely on the server and pull what you need to your local HD...iPhoto, dito...Plus it acts as a Web server for your personal home page, with built in FireWire for your broadband connection to the internet.
<strong>Bad idea. People who has server at home are some kind of computer experts. They are using old UNIX machines which they have 'saved' (got) from their office or they have good old Linux box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So let's remove the word 'server', it's just scaring people anyway.
No one looks at my Airport Base Station and says 'oooh, geek-boy's got himself a SERVER' Yet it is a DHCP server. The 'server' features that I'd like to see in a set-top really are pretty trivial, and anyone who has ever been in an actual 'machine room' full of racks would fall off their chair if you called it a server.
There's a couple slightly separate things I'm looking for:
1) Swat the broadband thing one more time. Take the Airport basestation to the next level - talk to the DSL/Cablemodem/Satellite folken and get it set so I only need _one_ widget. The current ABS needs updates to newer protocols anyway.
2) Doing the Tivo/Replay thing. But with a Quicktime Streaming _SERVER_ in it. Shhh, I mean, let me watch from another room.
3) DVD Burner.
Each one of those costs money. That's why a couple of the above people are like 'Whoa, big bucks!'
But let's make it a $300 box for #2 _alone_. (Or #1 alone - wait, we're doing that one). With the other two as options.
Apple has all the pieces for this. I think Apple could do this _well_. My only concern would be the MPAA/Viacom. They get antsy when you combine FireWIre, DVD, and burner in the same sentence.
(If Apple was better off financially, I'd hope they _WOULD_ make this, now like, because they would be able to show how the DMCA is impeding things if sued, and have lawyers looking for work anyway.)
<strong>
There's a couple slightly separate things I'm looking for:
1) Swat the broadband thing one more time. Take the Airport basestation to the next level - talk to the DSL/Cablemodem/Satellite folken and get it set so I only need _one_ widget. The current ABS needs updates to newer protocols anyway.
2) Doing the Tivo/Replay thing. But with a Quicktime Streaming _SERVER_ in it. Shhh, I mean, let me watch from another room.
3) DVD Burner.
Each one of those costs money. That's why a couple of the above people are like 'Whoa, big bucks!'
But let's make it a $300 box for #2 _alone_. (Or #1 alone - wait, we're doing that one). With the other two as options.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Completely agree that server is not the most appealing&userfriendly word..
But i do not agree on price-evaluations. whatever Apple offers, it will be better+more stylish+easier to use+state of the art tech(well, not always). this is not being sold in TiVo-level.
look at the ipod, it was screaming expensive compared to competition, but... so Apple (? > don't we just love that..)
also, did anybody manage to open an ipod, change batteries etc.? guess not, because Apple want to control consumer-use as much as possible, and this will be a consumer device as the tech-wary already has their server Lan/Wlan etc.
its gonna be 1only thing,
the ability to use the tv to play games directly from the device. as a parent this would liberate my machine a bit more often.. so game console-abel, what form this would take in regarding software/games/platform i am not sure, <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>
You just described something would cost roughly, maybe, 1500 bucks. 512MB to a Gig of RAM? 2 Hot swapable drives? Two proccesors, for under 500 bucks? Look at the iBook, the lowest priced computer Apple is making right now, and that is 1000 bucks for less capabilites than you are thinking of.you are living in a dream world, one surrounded by money trees that grow money, and such
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
And both of you are right to a greater or lesser degree, but are not looking at the problem in a suffficiently lateral way to get the required solution.
In my previous contributions to similar threads, I put forward the view that by creating a Server Appliance with 2 or 3 (user-upgradable) PCI-X slots would allow the customer to take a core PVR/DAB server and upgrade it to provide the STB and Telephony functions to which I referred.
Assuming that 970 (or similar) becomes a reality in twelve months, Moto will welcome a bulk customer for 500/667/750MHz+ G4 processors probably at an aggressive selling price merely to increase the cash-cow phase of that processor's lifecycle.
This creates an opportunity to design a dual-processor 667 G4 based home server using dual 80GB disk drives. Additional drive capacity is provided via the Firewire port(s), which then creates customer choice - want more, pay more; want faster, buy faster.
Whether you can deliver this for $500 now is irrelevant, it's whether you can deliver it for $450 in twelve months and still make a profit that's important, which is where the whole concept of having content and services that can be packaged in on a subscription basis becomes a factor.
Now obviously the EPG has to be free in its basic form, but what if the EPG had a "pro" superset of features (like Tivo's SeasonPass [or whatever it's called]) for which you can charge monthly fees. Additional chargable services could include downloadable 'pay-per-view' movies (once the digital-rights issues have been sorted and alliances/partnerships established) or niche interactive content (which could be educational or adult or professional or sports).
I'm not saying this is the only way forward, but Apple has to recognise (as per Tivo or Sony's Playstation arm) that selling the box once is no longer enough, and that the longer game is take a slice of the salami every month. My pet theory, that's all.
<strong>I'm talking about bringin it to a new market with Apps designed for home use...One potential iApp would be a video library, store the footage on the servers HD, catalog multiple removable HD's, and bring up the program you want...say the September 12 Bears game...when you want without going through a bunch of DVD's or tapes...the same with iTunes, store an entire library remotely on the server and pull what you need to your local HD...iPhoto, dito...Plus it acts as a Web server for your personal home page, with built in FireWire for your broadband connection to the internet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The biggest problem I see with this is convincing the consumer he needs to add yet another machine to his household, a machine which by and large duplicates functionality already present in his current machine. Say you already have a reasonably powerful Mac. Hard drives are getting cheaper and more capacious by the month. Why buy a whole other machine just to store multimedia? I can see where you're going with this, but I don't think we're quite there yet, if we ever will be. If anything, we're going in the opposite direction.
Hey, if you have 3 Macs in a household, each with its own iTunes library, each Mac will soon be able to play the libraries of all 3 Macs, sans server. This is the magic of Rendezvous, and this is why a generalized server that provides no extra functionality would be, IMHO, folly.
I think that people would have to subscribe to .Mac to use some of the services, y'know? Makes sense, no?
I think that people would like the idea of hot-swappable drives...
it would be the same volume as an XServer, just not as deep or as wide, but taller and in an iBook casing.... sort of clear, rubbery feel to it <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>That's why a Tivo device works so well. It replaces a VCR/DVD player, not adds to and just happens to be network enabled to handle iTunes. Now you can get rid of your 300cd changer as well... I want to eliminate boxes from my living room, not add to them..</strong><hr></blockquote>
The biggest problem with this is that it does replace a VCR and DVD, so it places Apple in direct competition with every company that produces VCR's and DVD players. These are the same companies that Apple will want to adopt Rendevue in other home entertainment components, as well as Firewire 2. I'm not sure that Apple could get away with this...sure Sony might use some Apple tech even though they compete in the Computer market, but if Apple started competing in too many areas, then I'm sure that Sony would be less likely to help Apple standerdize their technology.
If Apple continues the digital hub concept that it has been using so far with the Mac as the hub and everybody's periferals as spokes, then:
1. Apple keeps Sony, Phillips, etc. happy.
2. Apple saves R&D costs
3. Apple demonstrates its desire for open standards, etc.
4. Apple keeps its focus on a few, good products.
However Apple HAS been doing this for a few years now and it hasn't lit a fire under enough switchers to be significant, I feel.
So it may be time for Apple to make a HomeBox if for no other reason than to spark the imagination of the public. It could still use all of the components from Sony et al., but labelling the box as an Apple product would gain the company mindshare and an important icon for the digital hub in the way the iPod has done for mp3's.
There has got to be an iDevice in the basement somewhere that is going to get people to switch from PC's to Macs and incremental additions of a Ericsson cell phone here and a Phillips Tivo there will only attract people like us who get the digital hub idea already....and we are already Apple customers.
Microsoft needed a physical box (icon) to further its plans in the gaming world ... so it made the XBox. Apple may have to do something just as big.
What if Apple is obviating the NEED for these other things (like TiVO for example)?
Stay with me here. I am (seriously) thinking about buying a (20GB) iPod, ripping ALL of my CDs, moth-balling my 300 CD jukebox. In this sense, Apple IS competing with these other companies and their devices.
What is TiVO? A hard drive + scheduler + MPEG encoder + UI (driven from TV remote).
Well, what if my iMac was the "hub" with the hard drive, and iCal was my scheduler. The iMac does the recording/encoding...now I just need a way to put this on my TV. Could Rendevous + 802.11g do this to my (new) Sony (or Philips) Rendevous-enabled TV?
<strong>So I'm thinking more about this concept...
What if Apple is obviating the NEED for these other things (like TiVO for example)?
Stay with me here. I am (seriously) thinking about buying a (20GB) iPod, ripping ALL of my CDs, moth-balling my 300 CD jukebox. In this sense, Apple IS competing with these other companies and their devices.
What is TiVO? A hard drive + scheduler + MPEG encoder + UI (driven from TV remote).
Well, what if my iMac was the "hub" with the hard drive, and iCal was my scheduler. The iMac does the recording/encoding...now I just need a way to put this on my TV. Could Rendevous + 802.11g do this to my (new) Sony (or Philips) Rendevous-enabled TV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I understand it you want to do the encoding in hardware if possable, it is more efficient and wont be adversly affected if your processer is bieng taxed by other tasks that it is bieng asked to do. It is easier for it to just be responsable for writing the dv to disk (less chance of droped frames). Therefore I think that you would want a DVD player/digital tuner that could be networked. If you want to record a tv show, your device encodes it and sends it via whatever network connection you have to your Macs hard drive. You want to watch a previously recorded movie or TV show, dial it up on the device and it sends a call to the mac to retrieve the encoded file. Your Mac is not taxed when someone is watching tv while you are rendering that 3-D animation, and surfing the web. Apple builds as little hardware as possable to make it work, and the software. This appeases the Appliance makers, and makes them more likely to build compatable appliances. In the future, after it is established enough, Apple might be able to compete on a more level playing field, but at the begining they should stay away from direct competition and just build the backbone hardware/software combination to make it work and as painless to set up as possable.