A few interesting questions about apple in 2003

algol · January 8, 2003 4:51PM

First: Why did apple update the PowerBooks after just updating them? Why didn't they wait? Why didn't they add the same features to the 15" models at the same time? Why has apple updated the PowerBook, though it was doing great, and not the iMac which is a year old?

It could be that apple has no faster CPU for the Towers right now and they are just trying to clear out all the old iMacs before introducing new ones. But why not wait on the PowerBooks and update all of them at once? Why have this staggered release that confuses people?

Second: I have noticed, along with a few others, that apple is keeping the bus speed of the new PowerBooks a secret. Why? Could it be that apple plans on using the same motherboard in the new iMacs and doesn't want people to know the bus speed? Or could it be that the PPC7457 in in them which has a bus speed of 200mhz and they don't want them to look to good as to steel sales from their other lines.

Third: Since the PowerBooks, or at least the new ones, now have DDR and obviously faster bus's will the iMac also get DDR and a faster bus? I can't see a 1Ghz iMac with a bus of 100Mhz. If the PPC7457 is in the new PowerBooks, which seems likely do to the lack of bus info and the ability to make such a small 12" version,( which is actually a little smaller than the iBook) would this not point to updated towers as well? If the PPC7457 is ready it is supposed to be able to go up to 1.8Ghz. So might we not see a substantial PowerMac upgrade in the next month?

The only thing which has lead me against the idea of the PPC7457 being in the New PowerBooks is that their cache is only 256K while the PPC7457 has a 512K cache. But as we know apple may have just changed the cache size for the PowerBooks so that they have additional reasons to jack up the tower price. Who knows? But I figure if we work together we can answer some of these questions. I believe that all other apple products will be updated before the next macworld, unless they plan to wait on the 970 for the towers. SO if we don't get a tower update by the end of february I think it is a safe bet to assume the 970 at MWNY.

This could be a very interesting thread as long as you guys can stay on topic and not attack each other

well at least not to much

and just remember Steve Jobs is reading the rumors sites, or so he says. lol

edit: Switched PowerMac to PowerBook, it was a stupid mistake caused by typing way to fast.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Algol ]

krassy · January 8, 2003 5:15PM

i think the reason for no new iMacs and instead releasing new PowerBooks is their plan to replace the iMac with Laptop lines one day. there are also rumors that the iMac will discontinue in july. hmm... a 17" PowerBook is a very good thing and not too much more as the 17" iMac... Laptops will become cheaper and better... the future iMac could be a Laptop with external keyboard and mouse...

amorph · January 8, 2003 5:18PM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

First: Why did apple update the PowerBooks after just updating them? Why didn't they wait? Why didn't they add the same features to the 15" models at the same time? Why has apple updated the PowerBook, though it was doing great, and not the iMac which is a year old?<hr></blockquote>

Engineering projects are done when they're done.

Besides, while a revised iMac might have been welcome, I think it was a good idea to kick off the new year with an in-your-face, nobody-else-can-touch-this lust-inducing model, and do the upgrades later.

[quote]Second: I have noticed, along with a few others, that apple is keeping the bus speed of the new Powermacs a secret. Why?<hr></blockquote>

Assuming you meant PowerBooks: First of all, it's not something that people pay that much attention to most of the time, and second of all it's not a number that looks all that good, given people's focus on MHz.

[quote]Could it be that apple plans on using the same motherboard in the new iMacs and doesn't want people to know the bus speed? Or could it be that the PPC7457 in in them which has a bus speed of 200mhz and they don't want them to look to good as to steel sales from their other lines.<hr></blockquote>

The bus speed in the 17" PB is 167MHz, and if Apple were keeping specs secret to keep the iMac a surprise, why reveal that the RAM is DDR? I think the simple answer is that Steve flogged the numbers that he thought would sell the machines, and didn't mention the ones that wouldn't.

[quote]Third: Since the PowerMacs, or at least the new ones, now have DDR and obviously faster bus's will the iMac also get DDR and a faster bus?<hr></blockquote>

Assuming you meant PowerBooks, iMacs do tend to follow PowerBooks. A wholesale motherboard change would help explain the long delay in updating the iMac. But, if necessary, I believe a 1GHz 7455 will run happily on a 100MHz bus. It's technically feasible.

[quote]The only thing which has lead me against the idea of the PPC7457 being in the New PowerBooks is that their cache is only 256K while the PPC7457 has a 512K cache. But as we know apple may have just changed the cache size for the PowerBooks so that they have additional reasons to jack up the tower price. Who knows?<hr></blockquote>

That's not likely. The L2 cache in on-chip, so it's not something that Apple can reduce on a whim. It would involve manufacturing a different model. I think the processor in the 17" monster is a 7455, and the reason for the delays in other models is that Mot just started production of the '57, and Apple's waiting for there to be enough of them before making any more announcements.

[quote]I believe that all other apple products will be updated before the next macworld, unless they plan to wait on the 970 for the towers. SO if we don't get a tower update by the end of february I think it is a safe bet to assume the 970 at MWNY.<hr></blockquote>

Or at Seybold (where the G4 bowed in, IIRC). Or at an Apple Event.

Other than that, I think it's a safe bet that Apple will go on an updating spree this quarter.

algol · January 8, 2003 5:57PM

yea sorry guys I edited my post. Often when I said PowerMac I ment PowerBook. Stupid of me as I was typing to fast and read over it to fast as well.

kidred · January 8, 2003 6:39PM

They didn't update the pBook, they added new models, there's a difference. If the 15" was updated only then I'd see an issue, not by adding totally new models. Jobs wanted something out before Christmas but wanted to make a splash at a big expo. So, only rlease the 15" and don't update it at the show.

barto · January 8, 2003 7:23PM

First: Why did apple update the PowerBooks after just updating them? Why didn't they wait? Why didn't they add the same features to the 15" models at the same time? Why has apple updated the PowerBook, though it was doing great, and not the iMac which is a year old?

Apple's new policy is when an project is deemed finished, and inventory of current models (if they exist) are depleted, THAT'S when a new computer is introduced. This makes introduction more unpredictable without "insider info". Also, it's pointless to read anything into announcement timing now.

It could be that apple has no faster CPU for the Towers right now and they are just trying to clear out all the old iMacs before introducing new ones. But why not wait on the PowerBooks and update all of them at once? Why have this staggered release that confuses people?

No faster CPU for the towers? Well duh. IBM said Q3/2003. Unless Apple wants to repeat the G4 fiasco, then it will be Q3/2003.

Second: I have noticed, along with a few others, that apple is keeping the bus speed of the new PowerBooks a secret. Why? Could it be that apple plans on using the same motherboard in the new iMacs and doesn't want people to know the bus speed? Or could it be that the PPC7457 in in them which has a bus speed of 200mhz and they don't want them to look to good as to steel sales from their other lines.

The bus speed isn't secret. The 12" has a 133MHz bus, the 17" has a 166MHz bus. Any computer to have a 200MHz bus will have QDR400, DDR400 (blech) or DDR2/400 memory.

Third: Since the PowerBooks, or at least the new ones, now have DDR and obviously faster bus's will the iMac also get DDR and a faster bus? I can't see a 1Ghz iMac with a bus of 100Mhz. If the PPC7457 is in the new PowerBooks, which seems likely do to the lack of bus info and the ability to make such a small 12" version,( which is actually a little smaller than the iBook) would this not point to updated towers as well? If the PPC7457 is ready it is supposed to be able to go up to 1.8Ghz. So might we not see a substantial PowerMac upgrade in the next month?

If by "substantial" you mean "big speed bump", sure. If the "Apollo 2" can run as fast as 1.8GHz, that would be nice. Presumably, QDR400 will be used as it's easy for chipsets to support both DDR and QDR, and QDR has gone into production. But woop-de-do. It's just a speed bump. FireWire 800 I can see (with the LapZilla using it).

The only thing which has lead me against the idea of the PPC7457 being in the New PowerBooks is that their cache is only 256K while the PPC7457 has a 512K cache. But as we know apple may have just changed the cache size for the PowerBooks so that they have additional reasons to jack up the tower price. Who knows? But I figure if we work together we can answer some of these questions. I believe that all other apple products will be updated before the next macworld, unless they plan to wait on the 970 for the towers. SO if we don't get a tower update by the end of february I think it is a safe bet to assume the 970 at MWNY.

You can't change on-die cache. It's part of the actual wafer. But then, I shouldn't confuse the issue with facts.

Fantasies like this thread earn Mac users a bad reputation, for claiming things are better than they are through selective reasoning.

Barto

airsluf · January 8, 2003 9:07PM

stunned · January 8, 2003 9:22PM

It would really be very sad if Apple discontinue the iMac. It is one of my most favourite machines!! And generally, desktop prices are lower than the portables!

pey/coy-ote · January 8, 2003 9:46PM

[quote]Originally posted by stunned:

It would really be very sad if Apple discontinue the iMac. It is one of my most favourite machines!! And generally, desktop prices are lower than the portables!<hr></blockquote>

Compared to PC notebooks the Powerbook prices seem more reasonable than the comparison of PC Desktops to the PowerMacs.

(there was prob. a better way of saying that but you get the idea)

Not to worry the iMac is not in danger -expect a speed bump.

Also expect a speed bump to the PowerMacs, but they have so much catching up to do, I worry that speed bumps are all we're to get. I would like to hear something that is at least a hint of groundwork planned for the introduction of 64 bit architecture.

Before the end of summer, I hope to hear something like: In January we said 2003 is the year of the Powerbook. Now let's talk about the future...

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]

algol · January 8, 2003 11:31PM

Some of you seem upset with my "selective reasoning". I would like to point out that my thread was asking questions. I did not reason anything but asked for your imput. I only added a few staements of my own to get it going. I never said I believed that what I was saying was 100%. I only wanted to point out how odd it was that the only thing that didn't need updating was updated; while the models that did need updating were not. I was curious about the iMac update and why apple was waiting on it as well as whether it would follow the same specs as the low end PowerBook. As well I thought there was sufficient info to bring up the idea that the New PowerBooks may have the PPC7457 keyword "MAY". I understand that they most likely don't but thought it would be an interesting point.

I see the coming 6 months as being very important for apple and was curious as to what this all means.

jccbin · January 8, 2003 11:37PM

The PowerBook line is Apple's most profitable.

ONE reason they intro'd new PBs is that the longer they are on the market, the more profitable this quarter will be.

Second, The new PB's were finished. You didn't want them to sit on them, did you?

costique · January 9, 2003 7:36AM

[quote]Originally posted by jccbin:

ONE reason they intro'd new PBs is that the longer they are on the market, the more profitable this quarter will be.<hr></blockquote>

Exactly. However, they might have wasted a month or two waiting for Moto to start supplying PPC7457. Moto might have failed so SJ might decide to settle with PPC7455 for PowerBooks and reserve PPC7457 for iMacs or next towers' revision. Just a scenario.

Of course, if PPC7457 exists at all.

transcendental octothorpe · January 9, 2003 10:13AM

[quote]Originally posted by costique:



Of course, if PPC7457 exists at all.<hr></blockquote>

I have proof that it does exist, but, unfortunately, the info I have also says that production will be later than we all hope. (and even later for the RM).

outsider · January 9, 2003 12:29PM

[quote]Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:



I have proof that it does exist, but, unfortunately, the info I have also says that production will be later than we all hope. (and even later for the RM).<hr></blockquote>

So you ARE saying that the 970 will be out before the 7457!

lemon bon bon · January 9, 2003 2:06PM

Well, at the rate Motorola is progressing...IBM will have the 970 out and spanking G4 ass.

To me, they kinda leisurely proved a point with the G3 without trying to hard.

'Year of the Laptop.' Seems that we'll get desktop 'bumps' for eMac/iMac and 'power'Mac circa Feb/March at the latest.

That leaves the stunning Powerbooks and a 'Wow' iBook revision to steal the show for the 1st half of 2003.

2nd half? While Laptops do well for Apple (Powerbooks on margins and iBook on edu' and consumer market penetration...) it will be the 970 that lands and blows all away at Macworld New York with a 64 bit 10.3 update.

We may also see some other gadjet and even more software to set the Apple range alight.

Lemon Bon Bon

2003 is looking finger lickin' good.

transcendental octothorpe · January 9, 2003 3:43PM

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:



So you ARE saying that the 970 will be out before the 7457!

<hr></blockquote>

Well, the info I have says yes, the 970 will beat the 57 & 47. But others here sound like they have info that the 57/47s are almost ready to go (esp. KidRed), so I'm hoping that my info is either wrong, or just extremely hedged.

outsider · January 9, 2003 3:51PM

[quote]Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:



Well, the info I have says yes, the 970 will beat the 57 & 47. But others here sound like they have info that the 57/47s are almost ready to go (esp. KidRed), so I'm hoping that my info is either wrong, or just extremely hedged.<hr></blockquote>

Wouldn't surprise me if Motorola flubbed the 7457 somehow or that their 130nm fab is having problems. Is your info confidential or can you divulge?

kidred · January 9, 2003 4:00PM

[quote]Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:



Well, the info I have says yes, the 970 will beat the 57 & 47. But others here sound like they have info that the 57/47s are almost ready to go (esp. KidRed), so I'm hoping that my info is either wrong, or just extremely hedged.<hr></blockquote>

Well, my info is 8 months old and was more of a timeline which we all know Moto can screw up any kind of timeline. Also, IBM being as large as they are could always have a break through (I read they moved ahead of schedule). So, we are supposed to get a new G4 in Jan/Feb and the 970 in the fall. I'm not making predictions or guarantees, just echoing what I was told.

Hell, I'd love the 970 to be out in 2 weeks

tht · January 9, 2003 4:09PM

Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:

Well, the info I have says yes, the 970 will beat the 57 & 47.

Wow! This would mean that Motorola would be 2 years behind with its 0.13 micron fab. I can sort of believe you since Moto's PowerQUICC III (MPC8560) and 8540 haven't hit the market yet, at least as far as I can tell, and maybe won't until mid-2003.

But others here sound like they have info that the 57/47s are almost ready to go (esp. KidRed), so I'm hoping that my info is either wrong, or just extremely hedged.

We've been waiting for a 0.13 (HiP 7) G4 for at least a year. Waiting another year would almost seem like the final death knell of Moto as Apple's CPU supplier. But sooner or later, Moto's 0.13 micron fab has to start ramping up so product for Apple.

amorph · January 9, 2003 4:51PM

The new PowerBooks clearly use the '55, which is a strong hint that the '57 is 90 days away at the earliest.

Meanwhile, there seems to be a great deal of confusion about exactly when the 970 is rolling out. Much more than you'd think, given that IBM announced the timeframe.

Hmmm.

lemon bon bon · January 9, 2003 5:01PM

If Moto' keep slipping...surely it's feasible that Apple would be better served to move quickly to the 970 and swallow the 'pill'.

Or, in the meantime, if 'Stuff up' is...stuffing up...

Just make steep cuts to the 'power'Mac range. Make the dual 1 gig the new low end. Middle 1.25 gig duals. Keep the Indesign 2 bundle or introduce a 'Design Collection' discount. Geforce FX as standard on the top end model...with more ram.

Batten down the hatches until the 970 arrives. Which in the scheme of things..? Is looking like sooner rather than later...as Motorola goes from stuff up to STUFF UP!

I aint buying no 'power'Mac until the 970 arrives. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Apple are wise to focus on their laptops and software until the 970 arrives. Maybe further diversions will arrive in the form of bumped iMacs/emacs and a DLD?

Lemon Bon Bon

"Wow! This would mean that Motorola would be 2 years behind with its 0.13 micron fab. I can sort of believe you since Moto's PowerQUICC III (MPC8560) and 8540 haven't hit the market yet, at least as far as I can tell, and maybe won't until mid-2003."

Exactly, if they can't even deliver their own beloved 'embedded' chips then that speaks volumes. They sound like they're in crisis.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]

A few interesting questions about apple in 2003

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