<strong>Are you sure word wouldn't get out that the 970 was demoed at the WWDC? Also, sales of powermacs are slow for a reason, if people know 6 months from now the 970 will debut with certainty, they will surely be dead.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Q1 2003: 158,000, average sales price $1800
Q4 2002: 176,000, very small spike due to new models.
Q3 2002: 167,000
Q1 2002: 212,000
Powermac sales are already dead dead dead. The current pace is people that _NEED_ a machine. Now. They're all buying the Dual867, which is $1600 and the first time Apple's sold duals as the lowest end model.
That's because the 604e almost had MHz pairity with the G3 when the G3 was released (200 to 233 MHz), and because the 604e was slightly faster when it came to floating point math. Back during this time, I was working sales for ClubMac (paying my way through college) and I would inquire as to what a buyer would be using their box for before making a sale (because I was a CS major, and had a clue about how to advise customers). For most, the G3 was the best product, but for some, the 604e was better (esp. given the price reductions that Apple offered on it, and because the quickitme libraries were MP aware and the G3 still can't do MP).
This is not the same situation for the G4/970. The 970 is going to kill the G4 in every area and G4 sales are going to die the moment the 970 is officially announced.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sure that most mac buyers don't care about the "upcomingness" (sorry, i can't find the right word, i hope you'll understand) of a new chip! 95% percent of the mac users probably don't know that the PPC970 exists in labs. Plus we don't know what Apple will release before the 970 pMacs: i'm sure they'll find some trick to sell computers to us!
970 no later than MWNY '03. Apple is balls to the wall on this one and supposedly Jobs is in personal contact with the plant manager of IBM's new fab. You can bet there's a blazing fire under his ass right now.
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....
<strong>I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
You people saying PowerMac sales would be dead if they demo the 970 are funny.
First of all as people have posted security is taken very seriously at the event.
Second, NDA galore.
Third, how much of what was discused in all of the sessions last year got out? I do not seem to recall anyone who went gave out a detailed report of their seeings or hearings.
Forth, how many people outside of the AppleInsider/MacNN realm would really know? It is not like your average joe is going to walk in CompUSA or an Apple Store and find out new PowerMac 970's are coming out.
Fith and formost...how many of you guys on these boards buy anyway? With constant talk of what and where and when the latest and greatest thing is coming out YOU too are hurting Apple's sales.
Apple demoed Dual Processor Power Macs at WWDC way before they were released. While a 970 would not be demoed to a room full of developers it would be demoed for a core group (Adobe, Macromedia, Alias) No it would not kill Power Mac sales. I just sold a Dual 867 for 2k (loaded), many many many people have no idea what Apple is doing. Walk into an Apple retail store the day before you KNOW something is being updated and look at the people buying THAT product. The percentage of Mac users that actually watch this stuff and base purchasing decisions on it is very very small. Companies are not buying Power Macs cause to a guy running an IT dept for an ad agency a Dual 867 is really not that much faster than a Dual 533.
<strong>You people saying PowerMac sales would be dead if they demo the 970 are funny.
First of all as people have posted security is taken very seriously at the event.
Second, NDA galore.
Third, how much of what was discused in all of the sessions last year got out? I do not seem to recall anyone who went gave out a detailed report of their seeings or hearings.
Forth, how many people outside of the AppleInsider/MacNN realm would really know? It is not like your average joe is going to walk in CompUSA or an Apple Store and find out new PowerMac 970's are coming out.
Fith and formost...how many of you guys on these boards buy anyway? With constant talk of what and where and when the latest and greatest thing is coming out YOU too are hurting Apple's sales.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's my point tho. It we know it *was/is* demoed at WWDC then it was leaked and I think would still kill pMac sales ecept for the 4 that xype is gonna buy. I'm only saying if the public knows it's out or ready, that major buying decisions and people watching thier wallets will hold off until it's shipping. That wouldn't be good for pMac sales which as pointed out above, aren't doing well.
I am a little flustered that Fred (CFO) seems to believe the reason for slow sales is Quark and the economy and nothing to do with pricing and specs. I would've thought he'd at least admit to performance issues to let us know that they know and it will be addressed. Course, I guess the 970 will do all the talking.
[quote]I am a little flustered that Fred (CFO) seems to believe the reason for slow sales is Quark and the economy and nothing to do with pricing and specs. I would've thought he'd at least admit to performance issues to let us know that they know and it will be addressed. Course, I guess the 970 will do all the talking.<hr></blockquote>
Apple did that once in a non-direct way when Jobs blamed Motorola during an earnings call but do not count on a public company to say their products are slow and that is hurting sales during an earnings call with analysts.
First of all, if they had such machines, they couldn't tell you. If they did, they'd be in a rather large spot of trouble.
Secondly, with Apple's cozy relationship with NVidia, and their own acquisition of the Raycer team, I wouldn't say that ATI is the yardstick to measure things by.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was truly amazed when Mr. NSX came out and said it, but say it he did. He also said that as far as ATi knows officially, Apple will continue with the G4 processor line. When he can't say something, in the past he has either avoided the question entirely, or obfuscated.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Pilmour Boy ]</p>
I was truly amazed when Mr. NSX came out and said it, but say it he did. He also said that as far as ATi knows officially, Apple will continue with the G4 processor line. When he can't say something, in the past he has either avoided the question entirely, or obfuscated.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Pilmour Boy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have a feeling Apple will keep G4s for the laptops (iBook and PowerBook) for sometime and use the 970 for the desktops...maybe use some low powered 970 for the iMac...but that will probably stay G4 as well...
That's my point tho. It we know it *was/is* demoed at WWDC then it was leaked and I think would still kill pMac sales ecept for the 4 that xype is gonna buy. I'm only saying if the public knows it's out or ready, that major buying decisions and people watching thier wallets will hold off until it's shipping. That wouldn't be good for pMac sales which as pointed out above, aren't doing well. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing will leak out of WWDC that will drop PM sales to nil, because not everyone reads the tech press, or follows Apple's product line as closely as we do. Sales might well drop, but they don't have far to go. And again, if Apple can make up the difference elsewhere, it doesn't matter.
[quote]<strong>I am a little flustered that Fred (CFO) seems to believe the reason for slow sales is Quark and the economy and nothing to do with pricing and specs. I would've thought he'd at least admit to performance issues to let us know that they know and it will be addressed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
He did, although he was careful to spin it. He emphasized the point that Apple was looking for ways to improve the performance of the line, which makes it improvement rather than compensation, but which does at least address the issue.
As for the reasons he did give for low sales, I don't doubt that they're true. They just aren't the whole truth.
Some of you seem to have developed the idea that apple will need 2-3 months to test the 970 after production begins. I hasten to remind you that apple already has preproduction runs of the chip for testing. Apple will release the new Powermacs as soon as the chips begin production with a 2 month wait. There is no other way to go. The current G4 is on its way out. MWNY is the best and most obvious time for apple to release the 970. It may sound early... but maybe this once apple will truly surprise us? You think...
I predict the end of the G4. The 970 will run cool enough at .9µ for there to be no need for the G4. Of course I imagine apple will try to leave a G4 in some of their machines just as they are doing with the G3.
<strong>970 no later than MWNY '03. Apple is balls to the wall on this one and supposedly Jobs is in personal contact with the plant manager of IBM's new fab. You can bet there's a blazing fire under his ass right now.
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
--------
Was this suppoed to be a joke? I couldn't really tell. seriously I couldn't but I'm guessing it is.
While I do tend to agree that announcing a 970 based system is bad for current PM sales, I doubt that matters. The current line is just so far behind in terms of specs when you look at the iMac or notebooks, I am surpricsed anyone buys the towers at all. Besides, Apple has gone over a year without bumping the speed of the iMac - this is so against any notion of "progress" in the computer industry that I think Apple's business plan is actually designed around the idea that nobody wants a Mac desktop anymore, at least not at the specs and price Apple sells them. I don't see how announcing a 970 system could do that much more damage.
<strong>970 no later than MWNY '03. Apple is balls to the wall on this one and supposedly Jobs is in personal contact with the plant manager of IBM's new fab. You can bet there's a blazing fire under his ass right now.
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did you get him drunk so he would "spill the beans"?
Sure announcing the 970 will have a small effect on PM sales but I doubt it would even be 10%. People who follow Apple already know that these chips are coming out in the Fall. It isn't like when IBM announced the chips it wasn't all over the press if you were looking for that kind of thing.
Because I sort of follow Apple, people in our office and my friends and family are always asking me which mac they should buy. Sometimes when I tell them to wait a week because something new is coming out they do it, but if I tell them to wait over a month it is almost always "Well, its for my daughter's birthday." or "I need to spend this money off my grant by the end of the month." I really don't think that many people are going to put off buying.
So then waht's the general consensus? Apple will announce the 970 at WWDC or at MWNY? I beleive the pMacs still have 1 more G4 left in them before they get the 970 so I still see a fall release.
I can't wait. The more we discuss this, the more the 970 sounds like Apple's holy grail. Who wouldv'e thought in the 80s that IBM would save Apple's ass
No doubt Gimli is hard at work in the mines fabing that new chip! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL, the mines of Moria--Motorola delved too deep and awakened a giant fab-troll. That's why they can no longer fab anything...
Comments
<strong>Are you sure word wouldn't get out that the 970 was demoed at the WWDC? Also, sales of powermacs are slow for a reason, if people know 6 months from now the 970 will debut with certainty, they will surely be dead.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Q1 2003: 158,000, average sales price $1800
Q4 2002: 176,000, very small spike due to new models.
Q3 2002: 167,000
Q1 2002: 212,000
Powermac sales are already dead dead dead. The current pace is people that _NEED_ a machine. Now. They're all buying the Dual867, which is $1600 and the first time Apple's sold duals as the lowest end model.
<strong>
That's because the 604e almost had MHz pairity with the G3 when the G3 was released (200 to 233 MHz), and because the 604e was slightly faster when it came to floating point math. Back during this time, I was working sales for ClubMac (paying my way through college) and I would inquire as to what a buyer would be using their box for before making a sale (because I was a CS major, and had a clue about how to advise customers). For most, the G3 was the best product, but for some, the 604e was better (esp. given the price reductions that Apple offered on it, and because the quickitme libraries were MP aware and the G3 still can't do MP).
This is not the same situation for the G4/970. The 970 is going to kill the G4 in every area and G4 sales are going to die the moment the 970 is officially announced.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sure that most mac buyers don't care about the "upcomingness" (sorry, i can't find the right word, i hope you'll understand) of a new chip! 95% percent of the mac users probably don't know that the PPC970 exists in labs. Plus we don't know what Apple will release before the 970 pMacs: i'm sure they'll find some trick to sell computers to us!
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....
<strong>I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
So this means you're Frodo?
Gandalf and Saruman ? Man I've missed you!
No doubt Gimli is hard at work in the mines fabing that new chip! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
First of all as people have posted security is taken very seriously at the event.
Second, NDA galore.
Third, how much of what was discused in all of the sessions last year got out? I do not seem to recall anyone who went gave out a detailed report of their seeings or hearings.
Forth, how many people outside of the AppleInsider/MacNN realm would really know? It is not like your average joe is going to walk in CompUSA or an Apple Store and find out new PowerMac 970's are coming out.
Fith and formost...how many of you guys on these boards buy anyway? With constant talk of what and where and when the latest and greatest thing is coming out YOU too are hurting Apple's sales.
Apple demoed Dual Processor Power Macs at WWDC way before they were released. While a 970 would not be demoed to a room full of developers it would be demoed for a core group (Adobe, Macromedia, Alias) No it would not kill Power Mac sales. I just sold a Dual 867 for 2k (loaded), many many many people have no idea what Apple is doing. Walk into an Apple retail store the day before you KNOW something is being updated and look at the people buying THAT product. The percentage of Mac users that actually watch this stuff and base purchasing decisions on it is very very small. Companies are not buying Power Macs cause to a guy running an IT dept for an ad agency a Dual 867 is really not that much faster than a Dual 533.
<strong>You people saying PowerMac sales would be dead if they demo the 970 are funny.
First of all as people have posted security is taken very seriously at the event.
Second, NDA galore.
Third, how much of what was discused in all of the sessions last year got out? I do not seem to recall anyone who went gave out a detailed report of their seeings or hearings.
Forth, how many people outside of the AppleInsider/MacNN realm would really know? It is not like your average joe is going to walk in CompUSA or an Apple Store and find out new PowerMac 970's are coming out.
Fith and formost...how many of you guys on these boards buy anyway? With constant talk of what and where and when the latest and greatest thing is coming out YOU too are hurting Apple's sales.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's my point tho. It we know it *was/is* demoed at WWDC then it was leaked and I think would still kill pMac sales ecept for the 4 that xype is gonna buy. I'm only saying if the public knows it's out or ready, that major buying decisions and people watching thier wallets will hold off until it's shipping. That wouldn't be good for pMac sales which as pointed out above, aren't doing well.
I am a little flustered that Fred (CFO) seems to believe the reason for slow sales is Quark and the economy and nothing to do with pricing and specs. I would've thought he'd at least admit to performance issues to let us know that they know and it will be addressed. Course, I guess the 970 will do all the talking.
Apple did that once in a non-direct way when Jobs blamed Motorola during an earnings call but do not count on a public company to say their products are slow and that is hurting sales during an earnings call with analysts.
<strong>
First of all, if they had such machines, they couldn't tell you. If they did, they'd be in a rather large spot of trouble.
Secondly, with Apple's cozy relationship with NVidia, and their own acquisition of the Raycer team, I wouldn't say that ATI is the yardstick to measure things by.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was truly amazed when Mr. NSX came out and said it, but say it he did. He also said that as far as ATi knows officially, Apple will continue with the G4 processor line. When he can't say something, in the past he has either avoided the question entirely, or obfuscated.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Pilmour Boy ]</p>
<strong>
I was truly amazed when Mr. NSX came out and said it, but say it he did. He also said that as far as ATi knows officially, Apple will continue with the G4 processor line. When he can't say something, in the past he has either avoided the question entirely, or obfuscated.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Pilmour Boy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have a feeling Apple will keep G4s for the laptops (iBook and PowerBook) for sometime and use the 970 for the desktops...maybe use some low powered 970 for the iMac...but that will probably stay G4 as well...
<strong>
That's my point tho. It we know it *was/is* demoed at WWDC then it was leaked and I think would still kill pMac sales ecept for the 4 that xype is gonna buy. I'm only saying if the public knows it's out or ready, that major buying decisions and people watching thier wallets will hold off until it's shipping. That wouldn't be good for pMac sales which as pointed out above, aren't doing well. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing will leak out of WWDC that will drop PM sales to nil, because not everyone reads the tech press, or follows Apple's product line as closely as we do. Sales might well drop, but they don't have far to go. And again, if Apple can make up the difference elsewhere, it doesn't matter.
[quote]<strong>I am a little flustered that Fred (CFO) seems to believe the reason for slow sales is Quark and the economy and nothing to do with pricing and specs. I would've thought he'd at least admit to performance issues to let us know that they know and it will be addressed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
He did, although he was careful to spin it. He emphasized the point that Apple was looking for ways to improve the performance of the line, which makes it improvement rather than compensation, but which does at least address the issue.
As for the reasons he did give for low sales, I don't doubt that they're true. They just aren't the whole truth.
<strong>
That's because the 604e almost had MHz pairity with the G3 when the G3 was released (200 to 233 MHz)...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong. G3s debuted at 233/266MHz, the immediately preceding 604 boxes (8600/9600) were running at up to 350MHz.
I predict the end of the G4. The 970 will run cool enough at .9µ for there to be no need for the G4. Of course I imagine apple will try to leave a G4 in some of their machines just as they are doing with the G3.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Algol ]</p>
<strong>970 no later than MWNY '03. Apple is balls to the wall on this one and supposedly Jobs is in personal contact with the plant manager of IBM's new fab. You can bet there's a blazing fire under his ass right now.
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
--------
Was this suppoed to be a joke? I couldn't really tell. seriously I couldn't but I'm guessing it is.
<strong>970 no later than MWNY '03. Apple is balls to the wall on this one and supposedly Jobs is in personal contact with the plant manager of IBM's new fab. You can bet there's a blazing fire under his ass right now.
Calling this the "year of the laptop" is a smokescreen, nothing more.
I can't reveal my sources on this one, but one of them calls himself "Gandalf" and the other likes the handle "Saruman". Both of them are know for working magic on chipsets for some company we all know and most of us dig....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did you get him drunk so he would "spill the beans"?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Because I sort of follow Apple, people in our office and my friends and family are always asking me which mac they should buy. Sometimes when I tell them to wait a week because something new is coming out they do it, but if I tell them to wait over a month it is almost always "Well, its for my daughter's birthday." or "I need to spend this money off my grant by the end of the month." I really don't think that many people are going to put off buying.
I can't wait. The more we discuss this, the more the 970 sounds like Apple's holy grail. Who wouldv'e thought in the 80s that IBM would save Apple's ass
<strong>JYD,
Gandalf and Saruman ? Man I've missed you!
No doubt Gimli is hard at work in the mines fabing that new chip! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL, the mines of Moria--Motorola delved too deep and awakened a giant fab-troll. That's why they can no longer fab anything...