you have a 7 foot 250+ pound man running at you swinging you either have the choice to run, or hope to God you can fend him off. The fans did not throw the first punches. The players did. The argument ESPN and many are taking is the players have the right to defend themselves and get caught up in the moment....well, the fans also have a right to defend themselves and im sure many realized this was a horrible situation and the players were being manic and that they deserved to be punched and attacked as well.
Would this have happened had Artest not ran into the stands and pummelled that guy....who apparently didn't even throw the cup? Of course not. So where is this attacking in defense.
you can say that all you want, but it's undeniable that if the fans had been responsible and not thrown and yelled a bunch of crap, this "incident" would not have happened.
As someone who has 0 allegiance to either team or interest in the NBA and finds Ron Artest extremely annoying I have to say it seems like Ben Wallace is getting out of this with a slap on the wrist.
Say what you will about what Artest did, but Wallace started this entire thing and egged the crowd on. Wallace deserves every bit as much punishment as Artest if not more. But he won't get it because he's a media darling. That is a joke.
Artest should be held responsible, but to portray this incident as "Ron Artest goes wild!" is to miss the point in a major way.
- Ben Wallace started the whole thing and kept it alive with his insanely childish behavior. (He overreacted to the foul by Artest in a big way, too, I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.)
- Ron Artest avoided the fight, he acted like a prick with his lounge act, but he avoided the fight and he deserves credit for that.
- Ben Wallace and Stephen Jackson kept the fight alive. It could have been dealt with before the fans got involved if they hadn't kept it going.
- Perhaps Artest shouldn't have gone after the fan in the stands, I can go either way on that. He shoved the guy down (he didn't punch him or kick him), he obviously couldn't know (a) who was attacking him or (b) how much more he was going to be attacked. I can't blame him for trying to defend himself there, at least with Wallace attacking him on court he can see and assess the threat.
- Artest clocking the fan on the court is 100% justified. That guy was coming after him and it doesn't matter if he's a fan or a player, if someone is coming for you you have a right to defend yourself.
I don't agree with this.
Players respond to fouls all the time. They stand up and act tough and push and all that. Sometimes they get technical fouls for doing it. But what doesn't happen often is players running up into the stands to beat up on spectators.
Artest refused to be drawn into a fight with Wallace. Why didn't he refuse to be drawn into a fight with a fan in the stands? As bad as they both are, obviously the latter is much worse than the former. The fact is, he could have ignored the thrown beer, and he didn't. What if he goes after the wrong guy (which apparently he did)? What if your mom is sitting up there?
A Detroit television station (WDIV-TV) reported that Pacers forward Ron Artest will be suspended for 30 games while teammates Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson will sit out 20 games apiece. The station said Pistons center Ben Wallace will serve a five-game suspension.
Soccer teams in Europe are held responsible for their fans behaviour.
Whenever a soccer team's fans in Euroope behave like the Detroit fans, the team is forced to play its next home game behind closed doors, in other words- no fans allowed. Detroit should have to play a few homes games with no fans and no television coverage either. And the people who threw beer etc at the players should be barred for life from Detroit's games.
Why didn't he refuse to be drawn into a fight with a fan in the stands?
It's a good question but as I said above they are different situations.
1) Ben Wallace is pushing you on the court. This is a forseeable thing. You know how to react to this, just chill out.
2) Fans are throwing things at you. There are tens of thousands of them. This is not a forseeable thing and you do not know how to react. What if it became a mob scene? What if he took the abuse and the crowd took that as a sign to throw more dangerous things at him?
If you cannot keep your own crowd under control then you do not have any room to get angry when players fight back. The Pistons are the most responsible party here. Was he being an asshole? Yes. What is completely unjustified? No.
Artest 30 games
O'Neal and Jackson 20 games
Wallce 5 GAMES!?
I don't care about giving Artest 30. Whatever. But for Wallace to get only 1/6th of Artest's punishment is beyond all reasonable thinking. That is just incomprehensible.
5 games... what a pathetic joke the NBA is. What a disgrace.
I think all of the suspensions are weak. 30 Games for leaving the court and going into the stands? Puh-lease. They all should be in much deeper trouble than they are. Absurd punishments.
I think the fans are responsible as well, for sure. But, as a "professional" athlete, you've got to be able to control yourself better than that. A bunch of drunk people are going to do stupid things. But a pro athlete to do something stupid because of someone throwing a beer at him? Nope. Shouldn't have happened.
I blame a lot of what happened on the referees, the security personnel and the coaches. Why in the world wasn't Wallace immediately ejected after pushing Artest? Why didn't the referees start calling technical fouls left and right on all the players going nuts in the egging each other on stage? And why, oh why, wasn't there crazy amounts of security all over Artest AND the fans once he went into the stands. It should've ended immediately when Artest left the scorer's table. The security should have been all over them. Pepper spray, night sticks, the works. But... everyone just watched.
It's amazing to me when watching the footage to watch the referees. It's as if they're just standing there. As if it's not their job to do something when players are egging each other on. Maybe they're grossly underpaid?
30 games, 20 games, 20 games and 5 games is FAR too low for what happened. Maybe Stern needs to watch the end of that footage again with the kid crying and his older brother holding him. He might realize that his league is going to be in the tank unless he makes some major changes... now.
Even though the "remainder of the season" penalty was handed down and he loses the remainder of his pay, Artest's penalty is not harsh enough. For pete's sake, the guy wanted time off to promote his rap album anyway! He needs to be banned for life from the NBA. If he wants back in, he should be required to attend X amount of anger management counseling sessions and make a public apology for his actions.
What a joke. The NBA has lost its respect and may never gain it back.
A few of us were in a bar in State College, PA on Friday night not really caring about waiting an hour or two to get a table by the window. The Pistons- Pacers game played on TV, but no one really thought much of just a regular season game. The next morning, after checking the weather for the Penn State- Michigan State game (forecast was completely wrong: it rained), I flipped the channel to ESPN and saw the recap of last night's game. With each punch people gathered around the TV, not in amazement like a car wreck, but in disgust at the reckless players and fans alike.
Agreed. For the amount of money they get paid, you could throw beer and food at me all night long while calling my mom dirty names. I would just smile.
Fvck that. I'm kickin' azz.
In any event, I'm sure this will be serve as a ratings boom for the NBA--and ESPN. I can't say I've thought about the NBA at all until this incident.
Why am I the only person in the freaking world who thinks he should be responsible for starting and escalating the entire thing?
Artest was not 12x more guilty than Wallace. That is just insanity.
Artest's suspension was based on his prior behavior, Stern said as much during his conference. His suspension would've been less if he hadn't done so many horrible things last season.
As for Wallace's punishment, let's say that the incident ended with the scuffle, as it does most of the time. what would his punishment be? A couple games at most.
He didn't incite the crowd to riot.
Because Detroit fans can't stay out of the action like most normal fans he gets suspended probably triple that he would've been in normal circumstances.
Wallace started it, but he did not escalate it.
That's a good point, Artest didn't escalate it either, his laying on the scorers table was an attempt to defuse it. The person who threw the drink escalated it, too bad it wasn't the guy Artest pummeled.
Haha. I like how Artest didn't want anything to do with Wallace, but had no problem running into the stands to fight some middle-aged 5'8" guy with a beer belly.
This is the exact same thing I was telling my wife all weekend as they played back the footage over and over again. Its insaine that he was beyone fighting back on the court but thought nothing of jumping into the stands to fight with someone.
My wife and I go to a couple of Hornets games every season and usually sit a few rows back from the bench, which is about a $150.00 ticket each. If some out of control animal like Artest hurt my wife or my kid (if I had a child) while trying to climb into the stands to attack an out of control fan. I would probably do what many of the fans did and start pummeling that bastard. I am 6'6" and about 206 and those guys are much larger than I am, so imagine what one of those guys could do to a child who might have been sitting in the row in front of that guy. I think Artest should be banned from the NBA perminantly. Jumping into the stands and attacking fans should = not getting pain millions upon millions of dollers. Additionally I think that there should be criminal charges filed against fans who do moronic things like throwing cups of beer on players...$200 seats doesnt give you the right to disrespect the players, the game, or the other people who are sitting next to you. As an exathlete this sort of thing infuriates me. I believe that a little fighting on the court is warranted every once in a while but should never get outside of the paint.
This is the exact same thing I was telling my wife all weekend as they played back the footage over and over again. Its insaine that he was beyone fighting back on the court but thought nothing of jumping into the stands to fight with someone.
I think you and BRussell have this wrong about Artest. He gets off on getting inside people's head and driving them insane. Fighting back is one of the last things he wants to do because it'll give his opponent satisfaction. He was just trying to get inside B Wallace's head and was doing it very successfully by lounging on the scorer's table.
The fan throwing the drink on him was a matter of personal honor, and subsequently had the same reaction most people will have.
Quote:
... I think Artest should be banned from the NBA perminantly. ... I think that there should be criminal charges filed against fans who do moronic things like throwing cups of beer on players
People are talking about criminal charges against the fans, and although I agree, what about criminal charges against players who attacked fans? Shouldn't they be charged with assault?
I'm sure the fans will sue the NBA in civil court, but I think criminal charges would be appropriate too.
People are talking about criminal charges against the fans, and although I agree, what about criminal charges against players who attacked fans? Shouldn't they be charged with assault?
I'm sure the fans will sue the NBA in civil court, but I think criminal charges would be appropriate too.
I absolutely think criminal charges should be brought against Artest, or for that matter any athlete who charges the stands to attack someone. I have no sympathy for Artest because what I saw on those replays was someone who didnt care about his actions but only about getting even. Like I said if someone like that cant control his actions and goes swinging into the crowd then he needs to be held accountable for criminal charges.
I think the NBA F-cked up royally back when Sprewell attacked a coach (tried to strangle him at practice) and the NBA allowed him to return to play. I dont care how good of an athlete you are if you cant exercise restraint you shouldent be allowed to play the damned game. Its like Mike Tyson, he rapes a woman if not two, then he beats up people in bars and has no respect for anyone because he has money. If we are going to allow this to happen why not just let Gorillas box or wrestle and then just pay lawyers millions of dollars to defend their actions. There is never enough praise in my opinion for athletes like Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'neal, or the way Michael Jordan carried himself. There is a serious lack of professionalism missing from the game these days. It shows in their play (Half-ass, no excitement till the playoffs, I dont want to injure myself style) and it shows through in actions like this.
whoa there hoss, don't make pedestals for Shaquille and Michael.
I like Shaquille but he's going through extended adolescence in a major way.
And Michael, well all the skeletons are falling out of the closet, womanizing, huge gambler and oh yeah most of the guys he played with think he's a grade-A shit. You won't find one single Wizard that played for/with him to say anything nice about him.
I think it's a good idea not to make a sports guy a hero, like everyone they're flawed human beings, some more so. in fact I'd always heard that the guy who got the thirty game suspension (Jackson) was a really great person.
In fact most people that know Ron Artest well, (TNT's Kenny "the jet" Smith has known him since he was 12) will tell you that Ron Artest is one of the best family men in the NBA.
i would post my thoughts, but john romano of the st. petersburg times (tampa bay) really said it as well as i ever could (which is why he gets PAID to write, and i don't):
Quote:
Make next target boors in the seats
The message was sent and, presumably, received.
Ron Artest has been suspended for a season, and every other NBA player now knows the consequences of stepping into the bleachers with malice in mind.
But please, David Stern, don't stop there.
Don't tell me other penalties are under advisement. Don't insinuate further measures will be taken.
Send the message today.
Pistons owner Bill Davidson should be fined immediately. If Artest is to lose $5-million in salary, that sounds fair for Davidson, too. And it sends an appropriate message to owners about their obligation to provide security.
Beer sales at the Palace should be suspended indefinitely. If Pacers fans just saw their season go down the drain, Pistons fans should suffer, too. And it sends an appropriate message to fans about acceptable behavior.
Is that unrealistic?
Yeah, probably.
Is it an overreaction?
I don't think so.
This problem is serious, and it is growing. If you saw the footage of children crying, of elderly fans knocked to the ground, of a chair flying above heads, you know Friday night's brawl could have been much worse.
You know that it is only a matter of time before a heart attack or a fractured skull is the result of one of these episodes. And if it takes jaw-dropping penalties to get people's attention, then so be it.
Look, most of us can agree Artest acted like a hooligan. He was hit with a cup of beer. His life was not in danger, and his pride was the only thing wounded. His violent reaction did not fit the provocation.
So, yes, his seasonlong suspension is appropriate. It was important for Stern, the NBA commissioner, to make clear that players should be held responsible for their conduct.
But punishing a few knuckleheads, such as Artest and his teammates, does not address the larger issue.
Ballparks and arenas are being overrun by unsavory fans. Too many loudmouths, too much cursing and, more and more, too much violence.
A coach is attacked by two fans at a baseball game in Chicago and suffers permanent hearing loss. A year later, in nearly the same spot, an umpire is attacked by another fan. An outfielder in Oakland is hit in the back of the head with a cell phone. Fans throw thousands of bottles at players and referees after a controversial call at a football game in Cleveland. A Texas pitcher throws a chair at an unruly fan in Oakland.
You might argue these are isolated incidents. Or you might wonder if they are happening frequently enough to be called a trend.
Is it fair to hold Davidson - who also owns the Tampa Bay Lightning - responsible for the behavior of fans in his arena? No. But you can say he is responsible for providing a safe atmosphere in the building.
And on that count, the Pistons failed miserably.
Stern defended team management by saying no security force can stop a rampaging mob of 20,000. That's a cop-out. First of all, it wasn't 20,000 stampeding fans. It was more like a few dozen idiots. Second, from televised footage, there did not appear to be even a minimal amount of security.
Trust me, a large security force does wonders to curtail fan stupidity. I've been on college football fields where fans were allowed to run wild after a victory. And I've been on fields where the security force was so overwhelming, not even the drunkest fool risked jumping the wall.
What is the downside to increased security? There is none, other than an additional expense to the owners. And when you are charging fans $6 for a cup of beer and $5 for a cold pretzel, you can afford to pay for more security. In fact, you have an obligation to provide that security.
As for fans themselves, they must also accept responsibility. And that includes those of us who condone aberrant behavior by looking the other way.
We can begin with alcohol, since it does seem to be the common thread. So if fans are getting rowdy in one section of a stadium, then keep beer vendors out of there. If the problems escalate, then ban beer for an entire game.
If your enjoyment of a beer is threatened because of the drunk in the next row, you might be more inclined to report the offender to security. And that type of peer pressure can be an effective deterrent.
Really, this isn't a tough call. Owners in every sport should be made aware that their commissioners are going to hold them responsible for security. And fans in every city should realize providing beer is not an inalienable right.
It's easy to look at Artest and call him a thug. And it's easy for Stern to say he acted swiftly and decisively in sending a message.
But the problem is larger than one hothead.
And owners and fans need to be held accountable, too.
Comments
Originally posted by applenut
"once the fans started punching the players"
you have a 7 foot 250+ pound man running at you swinging you either have the choice to run, or hope to God you can fend him off. The fans did not throw the first punches. The players did. The argument ESPN and many are taking is the players have the right to defend themselves and get caught up in the moment....well, the fans also have a right to defend themselves and im sure many realized this was a horrible situation and the players were being manic and that they deserved to be punched and attacked as well.
Would this have happened had Artest not ran into the stands and pummelled that guy....who apparently didn't even throw the cup? Of course not. So where is this attacking in defense.
you can say that all you want, but it's undeniable that if the fans had been responsible and not thrown and yelled a bunch of crap, this "incident" would not have happened.
I'm embarrassed by my fellow Detroiters
Originally posted by groverat
As someone who has 0 allegiance to either team or interest in the NBA and finds Ron Artest extremely annoying I have to say it seems like Ben Wallace is getting out of this with a slap on the wrist.
Say what you will about what Artest did, but Wallace started this entire thing and egged the crowd on. Wallace deserves every bit as much punishment as Artest if not more. But he won't get it because he's a media darling. That is a joke.
Artest should be held responsible, but to portray this incident as "Ron Artest goes wild!" is to miss the point in a major way.
- Ben Wallace started the whole thing and kept it alive with his insanely childish behavior. (He overreacted to the foul by Artest in a big way, too, I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.)
- Ron Artest avoided the fight, he acted like a prick with his lounge act, but he avoided the fight and he deserves credit for that.
- Ben Wallace and Stephen Jackson kept the fight alive. It could have been dealt with before the fans got involved if they hadn't kept it going.
- Perhaps Artest shouldn't have gone after the fan in the stands, I can go either way on that. He shoved the guy down (he didn't punch him or kick him), he obviously couldn't know (a) who was attacking him or (b) how much more he was going to be attacked. I can't blame him for trying to defend himself there, at least with Wallace attacking him on court he can see and assess the threat.
- Artest clocking the fan on the court is 100% justified. That guy was coming after him and it doesn't matter if he's a fan or a player, if someone is coming for you you have a right to defend yourself.
I don't agree with this.
Players respond to fouls all the time. They stand up and act tough and push and all that. Sometimes they get technical fouls for doing it. But what doesn't happen often is players running up into the stands to beat up on spectators.
Artest refused to be drawn into a fight with Wallace. Why didn't he refuse to be drawn into a fight with a fan in the stands? As bad as they both are, obviously the latter is much worse than the former. The fact is, he could have ignored the thrown beer, and he didn't. What if he goes after the wrong guy (which apparently he did)? What if your mom is sitting up there?
BTW, here's what's being reported as the conclusion:
A Detroit television station (WDIV-TV) reported that Pacers forward Ron Artest will be suspended for 30 games while teammates Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson will sit out 20 games apiece. The station said Pistons center Ben Wallace will serve a five-game suspension.
Whenever a soccer team's fans in Euroope behave like the Detroit fans, the team is forced to play its next home game behind closed doors, in other words- no fans allowed. Detroit should have to play a few homes games with no fans and no television coverage either. And the people who threw beer etc at the players should be barred for life from Detroit's games.
Why didn't he refuse to be drawn into a fight with a fan in the stands?
It's a good question but as I said above they are different situations.
1) Ben Wallace is pushing you on the court. This is a forseeable thing. You know how to react to this, just chill out.
2) Fans are throwing things at you. There are tens of thousands of them. This is not a forseeable thing and you do not know how to react. What if it became a mob scene? What if he took the abuse and the crowd took that as a sign to throw more dangerous things at him?
If you cannot keep your own crowd under control then you do not have any room to get angry when players fight back. The Pistons are the most responsible party here. Was he being an asshole? Yes. What is completely unjustified? No.
Artest 30 games
O'Neal and Jackson 20 games
Wallce 5 GAMES!?
I don't care about giving Artest 30. Whatever. But for Wallace to get only 1/6th of Artest's punishment is beyond all reasonable thinking. That is just incomprehensible.
5 games... what a pathetic joke the NBA is. What a disgrace.
I think the fans are responsible as well, for sure. But, as a "professional" athlete, you've got to be able to control yourself better than that. A bunch of drunk people are going to do stupid things. But a pro athlete to do something stupid because of someone throwing a beer at him? Nope. Shouldn't have happened.
I blame a lot of what happened on the referees, the security personnel and the coaches. Why in the world wasn't Wallace immediately ejected after pushing Artest? Why didn't the referees start calling technical fouls left and right on all the players going nuts in the egging each other on stage? And why, oh why, wasn't there crazy amounts of security all over Artest AND the fans once he went into the stands. It should've ended immediately when Artest left the scorer's table. The security should have been all over them. Pepper spray, night sticks, the works. But... everyone just watched.
It's amazing to me when watching the footage to watch the referees. It's as if they're just standing there. As if it's not their job to do something when players are egging each other on. Maybe they're grossly underpaid?
30 games, 20 games, 20 games and 5 games is FAR too low for what happened. Maybe Stern needs to watch the end of that footage again with the kid crying and his older brother holding him. He might realize that his league is going to be in the tank unless he makes some major changes... now.
I hate the NBA. What a joke.
artest remainder of season
jackson 30
oneal 25
wallace 6
anthony johnson 5
and handful with one
wallace's is actually pretty harsh for no punches being thrown.
the only thing missing is detroit's penalty, how about no alcohol sales for ten games?
What a joke. The NBA has lost its respect and may never gain it back.
wallace's is actually pretty harsh for no punches being thrown.
You're joking right?
Why am I the only person in the freaking world who thinks he should be responsible for starting and escalating the entire thing?
Artest was not 12x more guilty than Wallace. That is just insanity.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Agreed. For the amount of money they get paid, you could throw beer and food at me all night long while calling my mom dirty names. I would just smile.
Fvck that. I'm kickin' azz.
In any event, I'm sure this will be serve as a ratings boom for the NBA--and ESPN. I can't say I've thought about the NBA at all until this incident.
We're so simple.
Originally posted by groverat
You're joking right?
Why am I the only person in the freaking world who thinks he should be responsible for starting and escalating the entire thing?
Artest was not 12x more guilty than Wallace. That is just insanity.
Artest's suspension was based on his prior behavior, Stern said as much during his conference. His suspension would've been less if he hadn't done so many horrible things last season.
As for Wallace's punishment, let's say that the incident ended with the scuffle, as it does most of the time. what would his punishment be? A couple games at most.
He didn't incite the crowd to riot.
Because Detroit fans can't stay out of the action like most normal fans he gets suspended probably triple that he would've been in normal circumstances.
Wallace started it, but he did not escalate it.
That's a good point, Artest didn't escalate it either, his laying on the scorers table was an attempt to defuse it. The person who threw the drink escalated it, too bad it wasn't the guy Artest pummeled.
Originally posted by BRussell
Haha. I like how Artest didn't want anything to do with Wallace, but had no problem running into the stands to fight some middle-aged 5'8" guy with a beer belly.
This is the exact same thing I was telling my wife all weekend as they played back the footage over and over again. Its insaine that he was beyone fighting back on the court but thought nothing of jumping into the stands to fight with someone.
My wife and I go to a couple of Hornets games every season and usually sit a few rows back from the bench, which is about a $150.00 ticket each. If some out of control animal like Artest hurt my wife or my kid (if I had a child) while trying to climb into the stands to attack an out of control fan. I would probably do what many of the fans did and start pummeling that bastard. I am 6'6" and about 206 and those guys are much larger than I am, so imagine what one of those guys could do to a child who might have been sitting in the row in front of that guy. I think Artest should be banned from the NBA perminantly. Jumping into the stands and attacking fans should = not getting pain millions upon millions of dollers. Additionally I think that there should be criminal charges filed against fans who do moronic things like throwing cups of beer on players...$200 seats doesnt give you the right to disrespect the players, the game, or the other people who are sitting next to you. As an exathlete this sort of thing infuriates me. I believe that a little fighting on the court is warranted every once in a while but should never get outside of the paint.
Originally posted by Playmaker
This is the exact same thing I was telling my wife all weekend as they played back the footage over and over again. Its insaine that he was beyone fighting back on the court but thought nothing of jumping into the stands to fight with someone.
I think you and BRussell have this wrong about Artest. He gets off on getting inside people's head and driving them insane. Fighting back is one of the last things he wants to do because it'll give his opponent satisfaction. He was just trying to get inside B Wallace's head and was doing it very successfully by lounging on the scorer's table.
The fan throwing the drink on him was a matter of personal honor, and subsequently had the same reaction most people will have.
... I think Artest should be banned from the NBA perminantly. ... I think that there should be criminal charges filed against fans who do moronic things like throwing cups of beer on players
Agree here.
I'm sure the fans will sue the NBA in civil court, but I think criminal charges would be appropriate too.
Originally posted by BRussell
People are talking about criminal charges against the fans, and although I agree, what about criminal charges against players who attacked fans? Shouldn't they be charged with assault?
I'm sure the fans will sue the NBA in civil court, but I think criminal charges would be appropriate too.
I absolutely think criminal charges should be brought against Artest, or for that matter any athlete who charges the stands to attack someone. I have no sympathy for Artest because what I saw on those replays was someone who didnt care about his actions but only about getting even. Like I said if someone like that cant control his actions and goes swinging into the crowd then he needs to be held accountable for criminal charges.
I think the NBA F-cked up royally back when Sprewell attacked a coach (tried to strangle him at practice) and the NBA allowed him to return to play. I dont care how good of an athlete you are if you cant exercise restraint you shouldent be allowed to play the damned game. Its like Mike Tyson, he rapes a woman if not two, then he beats up people in bars and has no respect for anyone because he has money. If we are going to allow this to happen why not just let Gorillas box or wrestle and then just pay lawyers millions of dollars to defend their actions. There is never enough praise in my opinion for athletes like Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'neal, or the way Michael Jordan carried himself. There is a serious lack of professionalism missing from the game these days. It shows in their play (Half-ass, no excitement till the playoffs, I dont want to injure myself style) and it shows through in actions like this.
I like Shaquille but he's going through extended adolescence in a major way.
And Michael, well all the skeletons are falling out of the closet, womanizing, huge gambler and oh yeah most of the guys he played with think he's a grade-A shit. You won't find one single Wizard that played for/with him to say anything nice about him.
I think it's a good idea not to make a sports guy a hero, like everyone they're flawed human beings, some more so. in fact I'd always heard that the guy who got the thirty game suspension (Jackson) was a really great person.
In fact most people that know Ron Artest well, (TNT's Kenny "the jet" Smith has known him since he was 12) will tell you that Ron Artest is one of the best family men in the NBA.
nobody's perfekt!
Make next target boors in the seats
The message was sent and, presumably, received.
Ron Artest has been suspended for a season, and every other NBA player now knows the consequences of stepping into the bleachers with malice in mind.
But please, David Stern, don't stop there.
Don't tell me other penalties are under advisement. Don't insinuate further measures will be taken.
Send the message today.
Pistons owner Bill Davidson should be fined immediately. If Artest is to lose $5-million in salary, that sounds fair for Davidson, too. And it sends an appropriate message to owners about their obligation to provide security.
Beer sales at the Palace should be suspended indefinitely. If Pacers fans just saw their season go down the drain, Pistons fans should suffer, too. And it sends an appropriate message to fans about acceptable behavior.
Is that unrealistic?
Yeah, probably.
Is it an overreaction?
I don't think so.
This problem is serious, and it is growing. If you saw the footage of children crying, of elderly fans knocked to the ground, of a chair flying above heads, you know Friday night's brawl could have been much worse.
You know that it is only a matter of time before a heart attack or a fractured skull is the result of one of these episodes. And if it takes jaw-dropping penalties to get people's attention, then so be it.
Look, most of us can agree Artest acted like a hooligan. He was hit with a cup of beer. His life was not in danger, and his pride was the only thing wounded. His violent reaction did not fit the provocation.
So, yes, his seasonlong suspension is appropriate. It was important for Stern, the NBA commissioner, to make clear that players should be held responsible for their conduct.
But punishing a few knuckleheads, such as Artest and his teammates, does not address the larger issue.
Ballparks and arenas are being overrun by unsavory fans. Too many loudmouths, too much cursing and, more and more, too much violence.
A coach is attacked by two fans at a baseball game in Chicago and suffers permanent hearing loss. A year later, in nearly the same spot, an umpire is attacked by another fan. An outfielder in Oakland is hit in the back of the head with a cell phone. Fans throw thousands of bottles at players and referees after a controversial call at a football game in Cleveland. A Texas pitcher throws a chair at an unruly fan in Oakland.
You might argue these are isolated incidents. Or you might wonder if they are happening frequently enough to be called a trend.
Is it fair to hold Davidson - who also owns the Tampa Bay Lightning - responsible for the behavior of fans in his arena? No. But you can say he is responsible for providing a safe atmosphere in the building.
And on that count, the Pistons failed miserably.
Stern defended team management by saying no security force can stop a rampaging mob of 20,000. That's a cop-out. First of all, it wasn't 20,000 stampeding fans. It was more like a few dozen idiots. Second, from televised footage, there did not appear to be even a minimal amount of security.
Trust me, a large security force does wonders to curtail fan stupidity. I've been on college football fields where fans were allowed to run wild after a victory. And I've been on fields where the security force was so overwhelming, not even the drunkest fool risked jumping the wall.
What is the downside to increased security? There is none, other than an additional expense to the owners. And when you are charging fans $6 for a cup of beer and $5 for a cold pretzel, you can afford to pay for more security. In fact, you have an obligation to provide that security.
As for fans themselves, they must also accept responsibility. And that includes those of us who condone aberrant behavior by looking the other way.
We can begin with alcohol, since it does seem to be the common thread. So if fans are getting rowdy in one section of a stadium, then keep beer vendors out of there. If the problems escalate, then ban beer for an entire game.
If your enjoyment of a beer is threatened because of the drunk in the next row, you might be more inclined to report the offender to security. And that type of peer pressure can be an effective deterrent.
Really, this isn't a tough call. Owners in every sport should be made aware that their commissioners are going to hold them responsible for security. And fans in every city should realize providing beer is not an inalienable right.
It's easy to look at Artest and call him a thug. And it's easy for Stern to say he acted swiftly and decisively in sending a message.
But the problem is larger than one hothead.
And owners and fans need to be held accountable, too.
That's a message that needs to be sent