onlookers fabulous MWSF prediction! #1) A rehashing of all the crap ( that says a lot right there) #2) To be continued at a later date. What do you expect from me?
All I can say is I really have no idea. I know what I would like to see Apple make, and probably wont get it, but fact is I have no idea. I wish the PowerMac had a somewhat plug, and play compatibility with PC Graphics cards, a hot swappable SATA drive chassis, and better more functional drivers for more graphics cards, and, or 2 *PCI-E slots to make SLI an option, and faster (3.2GHz) G5 processors but I'm not anticipating it. I'm actually doubting a PowerMac revision at MWSF. Even though it's due for its update.
All I can say is I really have no idea. I know what I would like to see Apple make, and probably wont get it, but fact is I have no idea. I wish the PowerMac had a somewhat plug, and play compatibility with PC Graphics cards, a hot swappable SATA drive chassis, and better more functional drivers for more graphics cards, and, or 2 *PCI-E slots to make SLI an option, and faster (3.2GHz) G5 processors but I'm not anticipating it. I'm actually doubting a PowerMac revision at MWSF. Even though it's due for its update.
That's what I'd like to see, if SLI was offered then the G5s would truly be a viable workstation option, it is now, but that and 3.2Ghz in a Dual configuration would absolutely fly. One thing is for sure though, if this were to be introduced, you can bet the price would be astronomical.
The only difference between a PC card and a Mac card is the ROM chip. If there was a way to ship a card with dual ROM chips, you'd have plug and play.
That's not even true anymore. The ROMs now are flashable. You could have one chip and an installer that did a bit-endian check on the host platform and flashed the ROM accordingly. As it is, GPUs ship with the same hardware chip for both platforms.
The big issue, as far as I understand it, is the endianness of the host architecture. PowerPCs are big-endian (although some can run little-endian), and x86 are little-endian. There might also be political issues, like consumer cards being disabled to accomodate the pro card market on Windows, but not on Macs (because there is no pro card market for Macs). But there's no solid information about any such issues that I can find.
I guess I am stating the obvious. Any updates to the PowerMac are up to IBM. If they have updated chips ready, I am sure Apple woud want to use them.
Just curious. Didn't IBM have a 970 with a bigger L2 cache. Would it be worth it for Apple to update the machines with the larger cache if there were no clock speed improvements? It may come as a silent upgrade.
Then again maybe Freescale will suprise us and Apple will go back to them.
That's what I'd like to see, if SLI was offered then the G5s would truly be a viable workstation option, it is now, but that and 3.2Ghz in a Dual configuration would absolutely fly. One thing is for sure though, if this were to be introduced, you can bet the price would be astronomical.
I don't see why the price would be astronomical. The difference is hardly enough to make it an astronomical price increase. What would cost so much to make it so expensive?
I don't see why the price would be astronomical. The difference is hardly enough to make it an astronomical price increase. What would cost so much to make it so expensive?
Not sure what he was referring to, unless he meant the workstation with the dual GPU's installed. A motherboard redesign would have to be done to accommodate it though, which would be a development cost for Apple.
Motherboard revamps are inevitable regardless so that shouldn't cost the user anything more than normal, and having 2 PCI-E slots does not mean everybody has to order 2 PCI-E cards. Although I would in this case so that should only cost the price of a second card.
I'm with you, (and me). I just don't see the huge increase in price anywhere.
Well my argument is this: It's Apple. If they introduce an SLI capable system with Dual G5s, it's going to cost a fair bit no matter how you look at it really, especially with both cards installed. I just can't see Apple doing this without charging a premium for it. It would be cool though.
BTW, aren't there some SLI motherboards out in the x86 world, and aren't they like $400-500 or more?
To that I say that the top PowerMac rarely changes price. If you install the second card then yes it will cost more, but who says you have to.
Unless they introduce a second powerMac with more features. Something a little more on the highend. THen I could see it costing more, but they wont introduce a second PowerMac.
That's not even true anymore. The ROMs now are flashable. You could have one chip and an installer that did a bit-endian check on the host platform and flashed the ROM accordingly. As it is, GPUs ship with the same hardware chip for both platforms.
In theory you wouldn't have to flash/replace the roms on the videocards at all. All that would be needed is a x86 BIOS running (under emulation, in the background) during bootup, to use PC GFX cards. Oh and drivers would propably be nice too. That is what I think is the reason for why Apple is not using standard PC GFX cards btw. The cost of paying for the development of the gazillion GFX card drivers that would be needed to make things "just work(TM)", just isn't worth it. That and the fact that RAM trouble would mean that you'd have no GFX output on bootup, since the emulator would need that to run.
Well my argument is this: It's Apple. If they introduce an SLI capable system with Dual G5s, it's going to cost a fair bit no matter how you look at it really, especially with both cards installed. I just can't see Apple doing this without charging a premium for it. It would be cool though.
BTW, aren't there some SLI motherboards out in the x86 world, and aren't they like $400-500 or more?
SLI motherboards can be had for about $200.
Yet I don't think it is feasible for apple to design and support numerous motherboards. Apple already needs to do more of its own R&D than x86 based manufacturers. Even reputable companies like asus need to do less engineering than apple because they start with a relatively complete reference design.
I think pci-e is of more importance to us than SLI. It's greater throughput from the GPU to motherboard will make a HUGE difference in 10.4 and future OSes. In fact, the performance of today's SLI systems could be acheived with a single faster card in a pci-e slot. Multiple cards for a single display will likely never see widespread use. It simply costs more than delivering the same performance on a single card. SLI does offer an interesting upgrade path, but most users never upgrade.
Motherboard revamps are inevitable regardless so that shouldn't cost the user anything more than normal, and having 2 PCI-E slots does not mean everybody has to order 2 PCI-E cards. Although I would in this case so that should only cost the price of a second card.
I'm with you, (and me). I just don't see the huge increase in price anywhere.
Apple would need a major redesign for SLI. Using the current setup for SLI would use all four available expansion slots which would in turn make G5 a very unattractive choice for professionals.
Apple will NOT update the line until 3Ghz. They are already 6 months late from their 'promise', and Jobs won't risk further embarrassment
Also, bluetooth as a standard is plausible, but not likely, and airport will hopefully not be standard in the near-term (it's not as important for desktop use, and it adds an expense to the machine that most may not need)
Comments
Originally posted by onlooker
MWSF is only 34 days away now boys, and girls.
So here it is:
onlookers fabulous MWSF prediction! #1) A rehashing of all the crap ( that says a lot right there)
#2) To be continued at a later date.
Oh onlooker you're such a tease!
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm actually doubting a PowerMac revision at MWSF. Even though it's due for its update.
That's probably because PowerMac revisions frequently come in January or February, after MWSF.
Originally posted by onlooker
All I can say is I really have no idea. I know what I would like to see Apple make, and probably wont get it, but fact is I have no idea. I wish the PowerMac had a somewhat plug, and play compatibility with PC Graphics cards, a hot swappable SATA drive chassis, and better more functional drivers for more graphics cards, and, or 2 *PCI-E slots to make SLI an option, and faster (3.2GHz) G5 processors but I'm not anticipating it. I'm actually doubting a PowerMac revision at MWSF. Even though it's due for its update.
That's what I'd like to see, if SLI was offered then the G5s would truly be a viable workstation option, it is now, but that and 3.2Ghz in a Dual configuration would absolutely fly. One thing is for sure though, if this were to be introduced, you can bet the price would be astronomical.
Originally posted by onlooker
I wish the PowerMac had a somewhat plug, and play compatibility with PC Graphics cards.
The only difference between a PC card and a Mac card is the ROM chip. If there was a way to ship a card with dual ROM chips, you'd have plug and play.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
The only difference between a PC card and a Mac card is the ROM chip. If there was a way to ship a card with dual ROM chips, you'd have plug and play.
That's not even true anymore. The ROMs now are flashable. You could have one chip and an installer that did a bit-endian check on the host platform and flashed the ROM accordingly. As it is, GPUs ship with the same hardware chip for both platforms.
The big issue, as far as I understand it, is the endianness of the host architecture. PowerPCs are big-endian (although some can run little-endian), and x86 are little-endian. There might also be political issues, like consumer cards being disabled to accomodate the pro card market on Windows, but not on Macs (because there is no pro card market for Macs). But there's no solid information about any such issues that I can find.
Originally posted by Amorph
That's probably because PowerMac revisions frequently come in January or February, after MWSF.
That may be true, but the PowerMac update cycle is usually every 6 months which makes it due for an update.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
Just curious. Didn't IBM have a 970 with a bigger L2 cache. Would it be worth it for Apple to update the machines with the larger cache if there were no clock speed improvements? It may come as a silent upgrade.
Then again maybe Freescale will suprise us and Apple will go back to them.
Originally posted by mattyj
That's what I'd like to see, if SLI was offered then the G5s would truly be a viable workstation option, it is now, but that and 3.2Ghz in a Dual configuration would absolutely fly. One thing is for sure though, if this were to be introduced, you can bet the price would be astronomical.
I don't see why the price would be astronomical. The difference is hardly enough to make it an astronomical price increase. What would cost so much to make it so expensive?
Originally posted by onlooker
I don't see why the price would be astronomical. The difference is hardly enough to make it an astronomical price increase. What would cost so much to make it so expensive?
Not sure what he was referring to, unless he meant the workstation with the dual GPU's installed. A motherboard redesign would have to be done to accommodate it though, which would be a development cost for Apple.
I'm with you, (and me). I just don't see the huge increase in price anywhere.
BTW, aren't there some SLI motherboards out in the x86 world, and aren't they like $400-500 or more?
Unless they introduce a second powerMac with more features. Something a little more on the highend. THen I could see it costing more, but they wont introduce a second PowerMac.
Originally posted by Amorph
That's not even true anymore. The ROMs now are flashable. You could have one chip and an installer that did a bit-endian check on the host platform and flashed the ROM accordingly. As it is, GPUs ship with the same hardware chip for both platforms.
In theory you wouldn't have to flash/replace the roms on the videocards at all. All that would be needed is a x86 BIOS running (under emulation, in the background) during bootup, to use PC GFX cards. Oh and drivers would propably be nice too.
Originally posted by mattyj
Well my argument is this: It's Apple. If they introduce an SLI capable system with Dual G5s, it's going to cost a fair bit no matter how you look at it really, especially with both cards installed. I just can't see Apple doing this without charging a premium for it. It would be cool though.
BTW, aren't there some SLI motherboards out in the x86 world, and aren't they like $400-500 or more?
SLI motherboards can be had for about $200.
Yet I don't think it is feasible for apple to design and support numerous motherboards. Apple already needs to do more of its own R&D than x86 based manufacturers. Even reputable companies like asus need to do less engineering than apple because they start with a relatively complete reference design.
I think pci-e is of more importance to us than SLI. It's greater throughput from the GPU to motherboard will make a HUGE difference in 10.4 and future OSes. In fact, the performance of today's SLI systems could be acheived with a single faster card in a pci-e slot. Multiple cards for a single display will likely never see widespread use. It simply costs more than delivering the same performance on a single card. SLI does offer an interesting upgrade path, but most users never upgrade.
With that said... I want an SLI dual 3gig G5.
Originally posted by onlooker
Motherboard revamps are inevitable regardless so that shouldn't cost the user anything more than normal, and having 2 PCI-E slots does not mean everybody has to order 2 PCI-E cards. Although I would in this case so that should only cost the price of a second card.
I'm with you, (and me). I just don't see the huge increase in price anywhere.
Apple would need a major redesign for SLI. Using the current setup for SLI would use all four available expansion slots which would in turn make G5 a very unattractive choice for professionals.
Also, bluetooth as a standard is plausible, but not likely, and airport will hopefully not be standard in the near-term (it's not as important for desktop use, and it adds an expense to the machine that most may not need)