I always find it funny when people expect Apple to cut out their entire profit margin... Apple AT THE MOST doesn't even clear a 40% profit margin just one look at the end of quarter reports will tell you that. On top of that they have to FUND the development of OS X, iTunes, iDVD and any other give-away apps that the by all rights could/should be selling.
Apple owners are (and should be) willing to pay more for the best... Don't want the best then build a clone and buy Windows XP ('the worlds most secure os') and then the Multi-Media upgrade..
Oh and then don't forget to apply that silly little security update. Otherwise, if by some odd chance you might wanna connect your box to the net someone doesn't hack right into your systems copy all your files and then erase your drive... :eek: The worlds most WHAT OS?!?!
Sorry about the tangent but you have to undersand you can't compare Apple prices to the likes of DELL or Gateway or etc, it isn't fair. Apple sells less product (result less profit) AND Apple develops their own OS and giveaway software (software that by most rights they COULD charge for)...
As far as I'm concerned Apple is in a class all by itself and when folks want to turn them into a clone shop it drives me crazy... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well put, I argued this in another thread, but some people don't care about Apple as a business.
"Assuming there's no G5, what will satisfy people?"
Steve's head on a platter. Or Moto's either will do.
Seriuosly tho, since I am in the market for a tower in Jan, I will only buy a G4 if's it at least 1.2ghz and with DDR. If not, then I'll keeping waiting and hope for MWNY.
I want Apple to release a system for the iMac upgraders (people who don't want another/new iMac, but don't like the high price of the towers).
When I say system, I don't just mean CPU. It has to be a complete bundle, like the iMac, except better than the iMac. I want bundled speakers, a bundled monitor, good software, and discouts for other peripherals like an iPod or a printer. I don't think this would be too unreasonable:
Power Mac G4 867MHz
Apple 17" Studio Display
256MB RAM
40GB HD
DVD/CD-RW Combo
GeForce 2 MX 64MB
Harmon Kardon speakers
---------------------------------------
$1999
I go to Dell's website and, regardless of the specs, they always have good deals/bundles going on. Yet I hardly see any at Apple's store.
<strong>For example, is it realistic to expect Apple to redesign the Power Mac motherboard, if the g5 introduction is months away, and would require another revision?</strong><hr></blockquote>
For example, is it realistic for Apple to expect people to buy so called "PowerMacs" as professional hardware when PC 133 RAM has been the "budget solution" for the rest of the computing world for more than one year now.
Apollos running at up to 1.133GHz or 1.2GHz+ with a motherboard upgrade.
I don't expect the G5s to be ready but I at least want to see Apple make an effort with their next revisions.
Always with Apple it has been something great is coming but when it arrives it is too little too late or simply flawed. I want to see them at least attempt to close some of the gap now even if the processors aren't ready.
I expect we actually might realistically see that too.
I believe the market would be satisfied by anything running over 1.2GHz or so, with a new logic board and case design - at the current prices. G4, G5, whatever; Apple will do fine with either.
Satisfying this forum will take...well, there's no satisfying this forum. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Apple's desktops are still too expensive, both consumer and pro. They would do well to develop the next generation of each with an eye to cost and performance. When I look at what 1499-2299 Canadian buys in the PC world, there just isn't any justification for the price of the iMac. 1499 canadian has to describe the high-end iMac not the second lowest model. Sorry. In it's current spec it shouldn't cost more than 999US (1499 CAN) And even if they update it to an LCD, it can't go any higher than 1299US (1999CAN) Say what you want about windows, but a lot of people just can't afford a mac. And more worrisome still, a lot of macs users can't afford to keep buying them. Even the Powermacs are starting to argue a case against themselves in the pro market. At a minimum they all need to take one step down the price-point scale, and include a 15" LCD for the price of admission. If I'm paying pro prices I want at least the most up to date memory and storage technologies. Why isn't a form of IDE raid built into the Mobo? ATA-66??? Come on. And RAM, DDR266 is cheap, they ought to have been using it since late last year. OK, so they have their specialized chipset to think about, but, at the very least they might have decided not to rape people on RAM. All the PowerMacs ought to have at least 512MB of the stuff they're using right now, standard, not some promo, or special deal. Standard. Minimum. I've nothing against high-end prices, but I want a high-end machine for the money.
<strong>It seems like the days following the last 3-4 MacWorlds have been full of posts bemonoaning Apple management, hardware, the morons at Motorola, etc. People are setting themselves up for a major let down again, and considering Apple's (and Motorola's) recent history, it's kind of surprising. So, I'm wondering, assuming the G5 doesn't make its debut, what will make people happy, and what is realistic? For example, is it realistic to expect Apple to redesign the Power Mac motherboard, if the g5 introduction is months away, and would require another revision. If so, what's the minumum people would accept? What about CPUs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
DDR RAM G4s 1.0GHz, 1.2GHz, 1.2GHz DP
LCD iMac G3 700-900Mhz or 800-1000Mhz
TiBook possible small speed bump.
iBook possible small speed bump. I would be suprised not to see an iBook speed bump, given the current closeout prices on the CDROM iBook (as little as $900)
I have what I call very reasonable expectations and fairly reasonable things that would make me happy about my Apple stock and happy about losing some money from my pocket.
I would like to see the low end of the G4 at 1Ghz. Whatever the high end tops at is fine with me, but I think having the entire PowerMac line at over a Ghz is a big coup given the problems of the last couple years.
As for the flat panel iMac, I know it is going to be sweet so I am not as concerned with the specs. One thing that I would like to see is a faster CD-RW drive. The 24/8/4 or whatever it is just doesn't hang anymore compared to other offerings.
Speed isn't that important to me on an iMac, because not that many people using iMacs really require the extra speed. Something around 900 Mhz would be great and hopefully the SE can top out at 80 GB of ROM.
Deliver that and I am drooling all over QuickTime.
I am buying a new machine ON January 7/02, I am hoping for minimum 1ghz G4's as base, on up from there is anyone's guess. Maybe 1.3 & 1.5DP's? I think I will be somewhat disappointed if it's under 1ghz though..
What are the G4 yields like these days? I wouldn't mind a base machine consisiting of DPG4's.
If the G5 isn't released (I think we might be a little too anxious on that one ), and the new G4's are under 1ghz, a 800DP looks pretty interesting, No?
These next few weeks are anxious ones for me for sure CAN'T WAIT
I will buy a mac after January after Jan 7th if I can get a superdrive mac over 1 GHZ with a flat panel under $2500. And it has to come with iDVD2. I want to make DVD's and the windows uquivilent stinks. Yuk. Have you seen the consumer windows DVD making (or movie for that matter) software. Yuk, yuk, yuk! Apple makes things easy and I am willing to pay for easy. That is what makes Apple so great - and the reason I won't go easily to the other side. Personally I don't care that the P4 is at 2 Ghz. Sure the P4 may render faster (or maybe not) but I can do the creative stuff on the mac faster - and to me that is what is important!
I've already posted numerously what I expect Apple to do in quarter 1 2002, so I won't go over it again in great detail, just remind you:
- powermac G5
- apollo G4 iMac with superdrive (which, IMHO, is the revolutionary part of steve's upcoming keynote )
- sahara G3 in iBook, all 100 MHz bus.
- apollo G4 powerbook, all on 133 MHz bus, higher res screen.
I only hope that they're not going to do that desperate 'mhz myth' thing again. That was preaching to the choir that already knew.
Will I be satisfied if none of the above materialises? Sure, there's other things to my life than Apple computer (though not that much ), so I'll live. I can though honestly say I won't buy another G4 powermac. And that's what counts for Apple.
Comments
<strong>
I always find it funny when people expect Apple to cut out their entire profit margin... Apple AT THE MOST doesn't even clear a 40% profit margin just one look at the end of quarter reports will tell you that. On top of that they have to FUND the development of OS X, iTunes, iDVD and any other give-away apps that the by all rights could/should be selling.
Apple owners are (and should be) willing to pay more for the best... Don't want the best then build a clone and buy Windows XP ('the worlds most secure os') and then the Multi-Media upgrade..
Oh and then don't forget to apply that silly little security update. Otherwise, if by some odd chance you might wanna connect your box to the net someone doesn't hack right into your systems copy all your files and then erase your drive... :eek: The worlds most WHAT OS?!?!
Sorry about the tangent but you have to undersand you can't compare Apple prices to the likes of DELL or Gateway or etc, it isn't fair. Apple sells less product (result less profit) AND Apple develops their own OS and giveaway software (software that by most rights they COULD charge for)...
As far as I'm concerned Apple is in a class all by itself and when folks want to turn them into a clone shop it drives me crazy... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well put, I argued this in another thread, but some people don't care about Apple as a business.
Steve's head on a platter. Or Moto's either will do.
Seriuosly tho, since I am in the market for a tower in Jan, I will only buy a G4 if's it at least 1.2ghz and with DDR. If not, then I'll keeping waiting and hope for MWNY.
When I say system, I don't just mean CPU. It has to be a complete bundle, like the iMac, except better than the iMac. I want bundled speakers, a bundled monitor, good software, and discouts for other peripherals like an iPod or a printer. I don't think this would be too unreasonable:
Power Mac G4 867MHz
Apple 17" Studio Display
256MB RAM
40GB HD
DVD/CD-RW Combo
GeForce 2 MX 64MB
Harmon Kardon speakers
---------------------------------------
$1999
I go to Dell's website and, regardless of the specs, they always have good deals/bundles going on. Yet I hardly see any at Apple's store.
<strong>For example, is it realistic to expect Apple to redesign the Power Mac motherboard, if the g5 introduction is months away, and would require another revision?</strong><hr></blockquote>
For example, is it realistic for Apple to expect people to buy so called "PowerMacs" as professional hardware when PC 133 RAM has been the "budget solution" for the rest of the computing world for more than one year now.
I don't expect the G5s to be ready but I at least want to see Apple make an effort with their next revisions.
Always with Apple it has been something great is coming but when it arrives it is too little too late or simply flawed. I want to see them at least attempt to close some of the gap now even if the processors aren't ready.
I expect we actually might realistically see that too.
Oh and LCD price cuts/changes.
Satisfying this forum will take...well, there's no satisfying this forum. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Cheers,
Mark.
Upgrade to Mac OS X 10.1 - $20
Watching your friend, who paid $575 for his HP turd running WinXP, get the sh!t hax0red out of him - Priceless.
...for everyone else: Apple Computer.
Happy Christmas!
<strong>
That shape reminds me of something...can't remember exactly what though.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you shake it, will it close all the windows?
<strong>It seems like the days following the last 3-4 MacWorlds have been full of posts bemonoaning Apple management, hardware, the morons at Motorola, etc. People are setting themselves up for a major let down again, and considering Apple's (and Motorola's) recent history, it's kind of surprising. So, I'm wondering, assuming the G5 doesn't make its debut, what will make people happy, and what is realistic? For example, is it realistic to expect Apple to redesign the Power Mac motherboard, if the g5 introduction is months away, and would require another revision. If so, what's the minumum people would accept? What about CPUs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
DDR RAM G4s 1.0GHz, 1.2GHz, 1.2GHz DP
LCD iMac G3 700-900Mhz or 800-1000Mhz
TiBook possible small speed bump.
iBook possible small speed bump. I would be suprised not to see an iBook speed bump, given the current closeout prices on the CDROM iBook (as little as $900)
I would like to see the low end of the G4 at 1Ghz. Whatever the high end tops at is fine with me, but I think having the entire PowerMac line at over a Ghz is a big coup given the problems of the last couple years.
As for the flat panel iMac, I know it is going to be sweet so I am not as concerned with the specs. One thing that I would like to see is a faster CD-RW drive. The 24/8/4 or whatever it is just doesn't hang anymore compared to other offerings.
Speed isn't that important to me on an iMac, because not that many people using iMacs really require the extra speed. Something around 900 Mhz would be great and hopefully the SE can top out at 80 GB of ROM.
Deliver that and I am drooling all over QuickTime.
What are the G4 yields like these days? I wouldn't mind a base machine consisiting of DPG4's.
If the G5 isn't released (I think we might be a little too anxious on that one
These next few weeks are anxious ones for me for sure
Dual G4 iMacs
Dual G4 PowerBooks
Quad G4 PowerMacs
(All with system buses fast enough to keep the CPU(s) fed)
Not that I think it will happen, but I could definately deal with it if it did
Oh Look! It's a cannibalized iBook with all of the headaches and none of the benefits of a laptop! Should sell really well.
- powermac G5
- apollo G4 iMac with superdrive (which, IMHO, is the revolutionary part of steve's upcoming keynote
- sahara G3 in iBook, all 100 MHz bus.
- apollo G4 powerbook, all on 133 MHz bus, higher res screen.
I only hope that they're not going to do that desperate 'mhz myth' thing again. That was preaching to the choir that already knew.
Will I be satisfied if none of the above materialises? Sure, there's other things to my life than Apple computer (though not that much