I'd guess that the 23" problems must be a small percent of all sold (no recall), but the flags should go up immediately and quality control should not be letting anymore of the bad ones out the door. Hopefully thats the case.
I don't really like the dell or HP. The HP has built-in speakers. Way lame...deal breaker. The HDTV capability is smart though. Why would apple omit the extra hardware that would allow their displays to do this? I sure don't need a 30" display, but if it doubled as a HDTV it would make a lot more sense. You can capture Hd decompressed streams w/ a firewire-out cablebox, but that problably won't be possible after mandatory encryption standards are in place.
My 23" ACD has all of the problems being discussed and so did the replacement display sent out to me.
The bigger problem is the unveven backlighting and color shifts I can forgive the pink as it can be fixed. Apple should send out a new color profile that works better with these displays.
The left and right sides of display have a yellowish tint and the bottom left corner is completely blown out . Light colors wash out and appear white. This wash out also happens at the bottom center and right corner but not as bad.
Calibration does not fix this problem as you can not target only the problem areas.
At this point my only option from Amazon was a complete refund. They would not send out a 3rd replacement. They acknowledged that they have had many reports and returns.
From Apple's own technology overview (Jul 2004) which can be downloaded from Apple's website:
"The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display has enough resolution to support high definition video content with room to spare, and it is ideal for color-critical work."
"Designed with a pure digital interface to deliver distortion free images and enable precision editing, this display excels at handling even the most color-critical work."
"Many factors define a color-accurate monitor. For example, a monitor must be able to display a broad color gamut that is consistent from edge to edge and over time? no matter where it?s located. In short, it must provide accurate, predictable, and consistent colors."
"We described how important it is for a display to be capable of reproducing a large number of colors; that is, providing a large color gamut. Equally important is that it be able to display that broad color gamut over the entire screen, over a wide range of physical locations, and over time. Each of these concerns is an aspect of color uniformity?a goal that display manufacturers are constantly striving to improve."
"Apple?s display family offers excellent color uniformity over the entire screen, both from top to bottom and from side to side."
I thought this panel was supposed to be S.W.O.P. certified? Perhaps S.W.O.P. ought to be thinking about recinding their certification?
It seems as though Apple sells the display as colour accurate, and then when you complain about the colour Apple simply insists "there's nothing wrong with your display it passed all our tests".
I'm glad I stumbled upon this problem as I was about to purchase a 23" ACD. Looks like Apple won't be getting my money!
Oh, and I don't know if this is just a UK problem or if it affects the rest of the world as well, BUT NEVER ACCEPT THE OFFER OF A REPAIR as technically you are waiving your rights to a refund.
just remember, when you see the posts with problems w/ the displays, you are probably seeing results from <5% of the total out there. People who are happy with them don't post on boards (like apple support bbs). If there was a major problem they would have been recalled by now.. no company can get away with continued sales with a product that was clearly not meeting its intended specs.
I read that the problem with some 23" displays comes from the mounting of the LCD to the Al enclosure. The LCD passes all QC checks, but after assembly it puts stresses on panel that cause the problems. No excuse, they should be re-checked thoroughly at this point...
anyway, I love my 23" ACD. Gorgeous display.. those HP ones make me gag in comparison.
just remember, when you see the posts with problems w/ the displays, you are probably seeing results from <5% of the total out there. People who are happy with them don't post on boards (like apple support bbs). If there was a major problem they would have been recalled by now.. no company can get away with continued sales with a product that was clearly not meeting its intended specs.
There are lots of aluminum 23" Cinema Display owners who like me, thought they had a perfect display. Then they ran across something which illustrates plainly that there is indeed a problem. I don't know whether I'll try to get mine replaced before the warranty is up or not, since it has no dead pixels and the problem is only apparent under certain circumstances.
As an example, try this test: open any image editor capable of displaying a full screen of solid RGB color and display this color: R-175 G-0 B-255. Then observe the overall consistency of the display, particularly on the left side. If you see a perfectly consistent purple color, congratulations, you're one of the few who have a good display. If you don't, join the club.
BTW, note my post above from September 22. Little did I know, until I'd had the display for awhile.
There are lots of aluminum 23" Cinema Display owners who like me, thought they had a perfect display. Then they ran across something which illustrates plainly that there is indeed a problem. I don't know whether I'll try to get mine replaced before the warranty is up or not, since it has no dead pixels and the problem is only apparent under certain circumstances.
As an example, try this test: open any image editor capable of displaying a full screen of solid RGB color and display this color: R-175 G-0 B-255. Then observe the overall consistency of the display, particularly on the left side. If you see a perfectly consistent purple color, congratulations, you're one of the few who have a good display. If you don't, join the club.
Exactly. This problem is flying under the radar. It is more wide spread than most want to believe. Just because most owners accept it or don't realize they have the problem doesn't mean there is not a problem.
I've looked at the Apple displays at two Apple stores in San Francisco. In both cases every 23" display had a very obvious magneta cast on any brushed aluminum app (e.g. Safari). Funny, if you open a white page for text, I did not see any pink cast. Its really bad on what should be grey/silver. This problem is very obvious from about 12 feet away. On the other hand, the 20" and 30" look good.
Funny, if you open a white page for text, I did not see any pink cast. Its really bad on what should be grey/silver. This problem is very obvious from about 12 feet away. On the other hand, the 20" and 30" look good.
Yeah. In October I picked up a 20 (moved my Mitsu to work and now have a dual setup with an ultra-crappy Dell Trinitron) and it has been great. I've heard a resent update helps calibration problems through software but it is still there. Its been a while now, hope they have things worked out.
I've looked at the Apple displays at two Apple stores in San Francisco. In both cases every 23" display had a very obvious magneta cast on any brushed aluminum app (e.g. Safari). Funny, if you open a white page for text, I did not see any pink cast. Its really bad on what should be grey/silver. This problem is very obvious from about 12 feet away. On the other hand, the 20" and 30" look good.
Same story for the 23" displays at the Pittsburgh CompUSA.
Everyone walks up going oooo... ahhh. Nice display... but why is the picture pink? For me, these display would be completely unuseable. I'd rather use a 17" CRT.
Everyone walks up going oooo... ahhh. Nice display... but why is the picture pink?
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
In all fairness to Apple, I just tested the R-175 G-0 B-255 color, full-screen on a Dell 2001FP I use at work, and I can see the same kind of inconsistant color. It's pinker on the left and bottom of the display. Looking at normal images in day to day use, I can't see any problem. Same with my 23" Cinema at home.
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
In all fairness to Apple, I just tested the R-175 G-0 B-255 color, full-screen on a Dell 2001FP I use at work, and I can see the same kind of inconsistant color. It's pinker on the left and bottom of the display. Looking at normal images in day to day use, I can't see any problem. Same with my 23" Cinema at home.
That was my first guess also. I even wrote a post nearly identical to yours when this problem first came to light.
However, we are 100% sure this is not a mere calibration issue. The pink is unfixable no matter the calibration, even using supercal. The pinkish hue can be lessened, but not completely, and only to the detriment of other parts of the spectrum.
Yes we are 100% certain, absolutely certain, that a non-insignificant number of 23" displays have a permanently pink picture.
My advice to anyone looking to buy a 23" display: Buy only from a brick and mortor shop that will let you test the display before walking out the door with it.
[B]First of, I'm just ranting from my own subjective opinion. I just bought my new display this past week and I can't believe I'm seeing color shifts from both the left and right sides of screen. There's a yellowish tint against a white background and pinkish against a darker background.
I bought the 23" screen 2 years ago and noticed the color shifts around the edge of the screen. I took it back and looked at the others in the store, they were all like that, so I took the 20" which was solid.
Meaning its 17 inch widescreen lcd, with built in tv tuner? the only reason im against this one is the built in speakers i need one without built in speakers..
Meaning its 17 inch widescreen lcd, with built in tv tuner? the only reason im against this one is the built in speakers i need one without built in speakers..
I've seen one and actually used one, but I think it was a brand other than LG - Perhaps it was Phillips or sony. It was not my computer and thus did not look at the settings but I found the resolution (Whilst using it as a computer disply not watching tv) to be too big (Like 800x600 or whatever the equivalent is for a 16:9 ratio display)
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
I don't think you can blame this on the hands of customers. First, I've only seen it on 23". Second, I looked at the Monitor system prefs and they are set to Apple standard prefs for LCD.
Comments
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Dude, I got a Dell. 2 of them actually. And they are spanking cool.
I suggest this hp L2335:
for the not overly wealthy (see same thread above) and this HP f2304:
for those with higher networth
I don't really like the dell or HP. The HP has built-in speakers. Way lame...deal breaker. The HDTV capability is smart though. Why would apple omit the extra hardware that would allow their displays to do this? I sure don't need a 30" display, but if it doubled as a HDTV it would make a lot more sense. You can capture Hd decompressed streams w/ a firewire-out cablebox, but that problably won't be possible after mandatory encryption standards are in place.
The bigger problem is the unveven backlighting and color shifts I can forgive the pink as it can be fixed. Apple should send out a new color profile that works better with these displays.
The left and right sides of display have a yellowish tint and the bottom left corner is completely blown out . Light colors wash out and appear white. This wash out also happens at the bottom center and right corner but not as bad.
Calibration does not fix this problem as you can not target only the problem areas.
At this point my only option from Amazon was a complete refund. They would not send out a 3rd replacement. They acknowledged that they have had many reports and returns.
"The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display has enough resolution to support high definition video content with room to spare, and it is ideal for color-critical work."
"Designed with a pure digital interface to deliver distortion free images and enable precision editing, this display excels at handling even the most color-critical work."
"Many factors define a color-accurate monitor. For example, a monitor must be able to display a broad color gamut that is consistent from edge to edge and over time? no matter where it?s located. In short, it must provide accurate, predictable, and consistent colors."
"We described how important it is for a display to be capable of reproducing a large number of colors; that is, providing a large color gamut. Equally important is that it be able to display that broad color gamut over the entire screen, over a wide range of physical locations, and over time. Each of these concerns is an aspect of color uniformity?a goal that display manufacturers are constantly striving to improve."
"Apple?s display family offers excellent color uniformity over the entire screen, both from top to bottom and from side to side."
I thought this panel was supposed to be S.W.O.P. certified? Perhaps S.W.O.P. ought to be thinking about recinding their certification?
It seems as though Apple sells the display as colour accurate, and then when you complain about the colour Apple simply insists "there's nothing wrong with your display it passed all our tests".
I'm glad I stumbled upon this problem as I was about to purchase a 23" ACD. Looks like Apple won't be getting my money!
Oh, and I don't know if this is just a UK problem or if it affects the rest of the world as well, BUT NEVER ACCEPT THE OFFER OF A REPAIR as technically you are waiving your rights to a refund.
I read that the problem with some 23" displays comes from the mounting of the LCD to the Al enclosure. The LCD passes all QC checks, but after assembly it puts stresses on panel that cause the problems. No excuse, they should be re-checked thoroughly at this point...
anyway, I love my 23" ACD. Gorgeous display.. those HP ones make me gag in comparison.
Originally posted by dirk gently
just remember, when you see the posts with problems w/ the displays, you are probably seeing results from <5% of the total out there. People who are happy with them don't post on boards (like apple support bbs). If there was a major problem they would have been recalled by now.. no company can get away with continued sales with a product that was clearly not meeting its intended specs.
Exactly.
As an example, try this test: open any image editor capable of displaying a full screen of solid RGB color and display this color: R-175 G-0 B-255. Then observe the overall consistency of the display, particularly on the left side. If you see a perfectly consistent purple color, congratulations, you're one of the few who have a good display. If you don't, join the club.
BTW, note my post above from September 22. Little did I know, until I'd had the display for awhile.
Originally posted by iDave
There are lots of aluminum 23" Cinema Display owners who like me, thought they had a perfect display. Then they ran across something which illustrates plainly that there is indeed a problem. I don't know whether I'll try to get mine replaced before the warranty is up or not, since it has no dead pixels and the problem is only apparent under certain circumstances.
As an example, try this test: open any image editor capable of displaying a full screen of solid RGB color and display this color: R-175 G-0 B-255. Then observe the overall consistency of the display, particularly on the left side. If you see a perfectly consistent purple color, congratulations, you're one of the few who have a good display. If you don't, join the club.
Exactly. This problem is flying under the radar. It is more wide spread than most want to believe. Just because most owners accept it or don't realize they have the problem doesn't mean there is not a problem.
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Funny, if you open a white page for text, I did not see any pink cast. Its really bad on what should be grey/silver. This problem is very obvious from about 12 feet away. On the other hand, the 20" and 30" look good.
Yeah. In October I picked up a 20 (moved my Mitsu to work and now have a dual setup with an ultra-crappy Dell Trinitron) and it has been great. I've heard a resent update helps calibration problems through software but it is still there. Its been a while now, hope they have things worked out.
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
I've looked at the Apple displays at two Apple stores in San Francisco. In both cases every 23" display had a very obvious magneta cast on any brushed aluminum app (e.g. Safari). Funny, if you open a white page for text, I did not see any pink cast. Its really bad on what should be grey/silver. This problem is very obvious from about 12 feet away. On the other hand, the 20" and 30" look good.
Same story for the 23" displays at the Pittsburgh CompUSA.
Everyone walks up going oooo... ahhh. Nice display... but why is the picture pink? For me, these display would be completely unuseable. I'd rather use a 17" CRT.
Originally posted by dfiler
Everyone walks up going oooo... ahhh. Nice display... but why is the picture pink?
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
In all fairness to Apple, I just tested the R-175 G-0 B-255 color, full-screen on a Dell 2001FP I use at work, and I can see the same kind of inconsistant color. It's pinker on the left and bottom of the display. Looking at normal images in day to day use, I can't see any problem. Same with my 23" Cinema at home.
Originally posted by iDave
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
In all fairness to Apple, I just tested the R-175 G-0 B-255 color, full-screen on a Dell 2001FP I use at work, and I can see the same kind of inconsistant color. It's pinker on the left and bottom of the display. Looking at normal images in day to day use, I can't see any problem. Same with my 23" Cinema at home.
That was my first guess also. I even wrote a post nearly identical to yours when this problem first came to light.
However, we are 100% sure this is not a mere calibration issue. The pink is unfixable no matter the calibration, even using supercal. The pinkish hue can be lessened, but not completely, and only to the detriment of other parts of the spectrum.
Yes we are 100% certain, absolutely certain, that a non-insignificant number of 23" displays have a permanently pink picture.
My advice to anyone looking to buy a 23" display: Buy only from a brick and mortor shop that will let you test the display before walking out the door with it.
Originally posted by lovenrockets
[B]First of, I'm just ranting from my own subjective opinion. I just bought my new display this past week and I can't believe I'm seeing color shifts from both the left and right sides of screen. There's a yellowish tint against a white background and pinkish against a darker background.
I bought the 23" screen 2 years ago and noticed the color shifts around the edge of the screen. I took it back and looked at the others in the store, they were all like that, so I took the 20" which was solid.
Originally posted by dfiler
I'd rather use a 17" CRT.
I'd rather live with a 12" monochrome display - the kind where the desktop would burn an image into the screen if you left it on for too long.
http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail...e=1&perPage=10
Meaning its 17 inch widescreen lcd, with built in tv tuner? the only reason im against this one is the built in speakers i need one without built in speakers..
Originally posted by Logan
Does ne one know of any monitors like this one:
http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail...e=1&perPage=10
Meaning its 17 inch widescreen lcd, with built in tv tuner? the only reason im against this one is the built in speakers i need one without built in speakers..
I've seen one and actually used one, but I think it was a brand other than LG - Perhaps it was Phillips or sony. It was not my computer and thus did not look at the settings but I found the resolution (Whilst using it as a computer disply not watching tv) to be too big (Like 800x600 or whatever the equivalent is for a 16:9 ratio display)
I wasn't all that impressed.
Originally posted by iDave
My guess is that if it's immediately noticable, the display probably hasn't been calibrated, or some customer has messed with the calibration after the store had it set.
I don't think you can blame this on the hands of customers. First, I've only seen it on 23". Second, I looked at the Monitor system prefs and they are set to Apple standard prefs for LCD.