Um, yeah, not having a tsunami thread. Great idea.
Might we limit this to mere facts/news of the recovery, i.e. keep all political arguments in Political Outsider?
Frankly it's still to early for the recriminations and one-upmanship from all sides. Take it elsewhere, please.
Comments
Originally posted by johnq
Um, yeah, not having a tsunami thread. Great idea.
Better none than a crappy one.
Originally posted by johnq
Might we limit this to mere facts/news of the recovery, i.e. keep all political arguments in Political Outsider?
Frankly it's still to early for the recriminations and one-upmanship from all sides. Take it elsewhere, please.
Good idea and good luck.
How about getting the old Post Editing Mojo going if the sad cases show up this time round? The power to put words in people's mouths is a blessing and not to be sneezed at.
This whole thing has really underscored how fragile our emergency responses really are.
Here in Ontario, we've dealt with Ice Storms, SARS, Blackouts in the last few years.
While our Emergency personnel are admirable, there's always a sense of unpreparedness when a disaster hits.
? Which radio stations are guaranteed to broadcast?
? Will the internet/cell phone infrastructure hold up?
? Whose in charge and where do volunteers go to help?
And this is a first world country.
One dreads to think about what challenges the front-line workers are facing over there.
The bigger question seems to be "who is going to take charge?". If we didn't make a piss boy out of the United Nations due to our political games, they are still the best qualified to do this. People in these countries help each other out better than the aid agencies or governments do. I think that works best.
Wildlife officials in Sri Lanka have reported that, despite the loss of human life in the Asian disaster, there have been no recorded animal deaths.
Score 1 for the animals.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/tsunami/st...html?gusrc=rss
Such events remind us of the sameness of our human destiny, the fragility of our existence. They place in perspective the meaning of security. Life is always at the mercy of nature - whether from such overwhelming events as this, or the natural processes that exempt no one from paying back to earth the life it gave us. Yet we inhabit systems of social and economic injustice that exacerbate the insecurity of the poor, while the west is prepared to lay waste distant towns and cities in the name of a security that, in the end, eludes us all.
Assertions of our common humanity occur only at times of great loss. To retrieve and hold on to it at all other times - that would be something of worth to salvage from these scenes of desolation.
Score 0 for the humans.
--------------------------------
Animals Win!
(note: I think the article in the Guardian applies to everyone and it shouldn't be dismissed as a east-vs-west nonsense. It is worth a read.)
Originally posted by Scott
Woo Hoo! My colleague just checked in. He's back in the US with his family.
Good new
The death toll is terrible 150 000 people and increasing.
For example 200 french people died : a major disaster, but a small drop in the ocean compared to the 150 000 death
http://www.digitalglobe.com/tsunami_gallery.html
Originally posted by talksense101
I am concerned that the money I donate won't reach the needy. ...
You can go to this site to get an idea of how good an organization is at using the money for the intended purpose.
www.give.org
I gave to the Red Cross. I hope I wasn't "stingy".
His view (and be warned it's very depressing) is that the Indonesian casualties are nowhere near accurate. He thinks the figure is much, much higher and said he would not be surprised to find there were as many as 1,000,000 million people killed on Sumatra and surrounding islands.
I have to believe (for sanity's sake) that's too high but I can see his point that the death toll is almost certainly much greater than the official figures show considering:
- Sumatra's population is estimated at around 40 mill
- really good point he made, census figures are not very reliable (read low)
- most live in coastal regions
- there are reports of villages of 10,000 people where as few as 40 have survived
- much of the coast to the south and west of Banda Aceh was completely isolated for a week or more and, AFAIK, some areas have not been reached (imagine how freaky that would be - you're one of a handful left alive amidst total devastation and you have no contact with the outside world for days on end)
One of the things that struck me looking at the animations of the tsunami was that the tip of Sumatra seemed to act just like a point break on a beach. The upshot being that the tsunami could hit like a "fat" beach wave with lots of water in it (no good to surf) in some areas or, given the right geographical features, form into more of a surf wave. Unfortunately, as more footage becomes available this seems to be the case. The proviso being that there'll be less footage of it behaving as a surf type wave because it would be so much more destructive. And that makes the west coast of Sumatra (not to mention the smaller islands to the south) a very bad place to be.
I'm convinced even with tsunami warning system the death toll from this event would still be enormous. Great idea, difficult to execute as smoothly as people imagine. Sumatra had about half an hour. How do you warn people over such a huge area in around 10 different countries (the death toll in Somalia is now near 200 for chrissakes)? How do they all get to safety in time?
The big lesson here was about fragility. Ours. Once again we skipped class. Pity.
Originally posted by Scott
None? Even if you could make something to stop a wave like that would you want to spend that much money for something that happens every 200-100 years?
It's quite evident that even sturdy structures actually remained standing, even in Banda Ache. So better built houses and a global system for warning should be easy lessons learnt.
btw, How much money do you think has been used on stuff that never happened? Like european and US nuclear shelters for instance?
Something like this can easily happen again.
And probably is likely to happen in the next 50-100 years. We only have 50 to a 100 years of information age and overpopulation behind us. Yet four equally strong earthquakes have been recorded. Next time it could be LA or Tokyo...
There are feelings of anger, sure, but the overriding feeling in our family is of helplessness -- what we can do? I suppose not much, but I do propose if you haven't considered donating relief to the charity of your choice, you take some time to think about it.
Thanks.
Sound and light hypnotizing people to go to the hills in an orderly, pacey trundle? If we had that technology it'd be turned into a weapon anyway.
Hate to say it's impossible but I sure as hell can't see how it'd be done.
Donation contact numbers
The following are contact numbers and web information for some of the aid agencies appealing for donations for the humanitarian operation in the wake of Sunday's disaster in southern Asia.
IRELAND
Irish Red Cross: 1850 50 70 70
Concern: 1850 410 510 / from NI 0800 410 510 http://www.concern.ie
Trócaire: 1850 408 408 / from NI 0800 912 1200 http://www.trocaire.ie
UNICEF Ireland: 1850 767 999 / from NI 08457 312 312 http://www.unicef.ie
GOAL: 01 2809779 http://www.goal.ie
Oxfam Ireland: Lo-call 1890 60 60 65 / from NI 0845 303 0337 http://www.oxfam.ie
The Hope Foundation: 021 4292990
Disasters Emergency Committee (UK umbrella body): 0870 60 60 900
U.K
Under the umbrella of the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), charities ActionAid, British Red Cross, Cafod, Care International, Christian Aid, Concern, Help the Aged, Merlin, Oxfam, Save the Children, Tearfund and World Vision are asking for money to provide clean water, food and shelter. People can donate at 0870 60 60 900 , offices, banks or online at http://www.dec.org.uk
For more information on individual charities http://www.allaboutgiving.org/relief.cfm
U.S.A
Below is a list of aid agencies you can make a donation to...
http://www.actionagainsthunger.org/
http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html
http://www.bapscare.org/
http://www.careusa.org/
http://www.directrelief.org/
http://www.theirc.org/index.cfm/wwwID/2134
http://www.ifrc.org/helpnow/donate/donate_response.asp
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/whatwedo...an_floods_2004
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.unicefusa.org
http://www.wfp.org/
... and other charitable organisations.
Feel free to update this list with agencies in your area who are accepting donations in response to the disaster in southern Asia.
Originally posted by johnq
Unless a warning system can somehow sedate people enough to prevent hysteria, I can't see how it wouldn't just create massive traffic jams and tramplings, such as what happened earlier this week.
Sound and light hypnotizing people to go to the hills in an orderly, pacey trundle? If we had that technology it'd be turned into a weapon anyway.
Hate to say it's impossible but I sure as hell can't see how it'd be done.
I don't agree at all. It seems in a lot of places safe ground was a 20 minute walk from the beach.
Originally posted by Scott
I don't agree at all. It seems in a lot of places safe ground was a 20 minute walk from the beach.
I wasn't saying don't try to develop a warning system (which would also need to include education).
Of course there are safer places than others. But regardless, you are not factoring in how people will naturally try to grab all their stuff, and/or go running around looking for eachother (a mother gathering up 4 kids, people trying to get their elderly parents out), plus people going into the danger to find people (a man rushing from work to his house to help his family), etc.
You can tell people "just go uphill" but too few will do merely that.
You can chalk it up to evolution-in-action/human nature, but one would hope it could be overcome somehow.