Need help choosing a desktop PC
As I said in another posting, I am looking to buy a desktop PC within the next couple of days, to complement my iBook laptop (which I will probably soon be replacing as well, being that it's more than years now and getting long on the tooth).
Basically I am looking to the PC for a couple of things:
1. run Quicken (or Money) for personal finance: Quicken for Mac is such a piece of garbage I never really got into, despite trying very hard. I also evaluted other alternatives like iBank, but although well intentioned, they really can't hold a candle to full-featured and actually well-designed apps like Quicken for Windows. Also the lack of support for bank integration on the Mac side of the fence is just unbearable.
2. run the occasional (generally power-hungry) game... currently setting my sight on Half-Life 2. I basically had to give up game playing on the Mac, so woefully underpowered my machine is (G3 700) and so awfully inadequate the Mac's game selection is.
3. video-chat with my family back home, who use PCs. Wish I could use iChat AV, but last I read compatibility with AIM on Windows is still abysmal at least for video. So I'll probably end up using MSN Messenger or one of the other many videochat options available on the PC. I have to say thoguht that I am very very thankful to Skype for having released a Mac version: already brought me so much closer to feeling like i am actually home with my family (and probably saved lots of $$ on long-distance phone bills)
4. do Office work... might as well since I can't stand working on the uber-sluggish Office X/2004
5. try out and play with fringe software like natural voice dictation and other cool new apps which seems to only ever come out for Windows
As you can tell, I am less than happy with my computer's performance. So I am chomping at the bit to see what a modern PC can offer in that regard.
However there are still enough reasons for me to like the Mac that I am still going to keep it as my main machine. I am holding off from getting a new Mac until Tiger is released, to see if it'll make a huge difference in Mac's performance. If it doesn't and if Mac's CPUs are still so under-specced by then, I'll probably put my Mac investment in maintenance mode.
Wow that was a lot of background... sorry about that!
Now on to the PC itself. Despite the impression I might have given above, I am actually not looking to buy the most powerful screaming machine out there. I am looking for some decently specced machine between $500 and $1000 (preferably closer to $500). Preferrably quiet (sorry, spoiled by Macs). P4 or Athlon type of performance. 2.8 Ghz+ or equivalent. 500 MB+ RAM. Good graphics performance (good enough for decent HL2 performance at 800x600 at least). Decent software package (WinXP, and something like Works). Above all, I want excellent reliability. I don't want no trouble with my new PC... no time for that anymore (maybe 5 years ago, would have been a different matter).
I am currently leaning toward a Dell, since they always seem to have these fantastic deals going on, with 17in LCDs thrown in for free and such. Or maybe an eMachine.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! I know it's odd that I ask this from a Mac forum, but I know many of you have been here already, probably for very similar reasons.
Basically I am looking to the PC for a couple of things:
1. run Quicken (or Money) for personal finance: Quicken for Mac is such a piece of garbage I never really got into, despite trying very hard. I also evaluted other alternatives like iBank, but although well intentioned, they really can't hold a candle to full-featured and actually well-designed apps like Quicken for Windows. Also the lack of support for bank integration on the Mac side of the fence is just unbearable.
2. run the occasional (generally power-hungry) game... currently setting my sight on Half-Life 2. I basically had to give up game playing on the Mac, so woefully underpowered my machine is (G3 700) and so awfully inadequate the Mac's game selection is.
3. video-chat with my family back home, who use PCs. Wish I could use iChat AV, but last I read compatibility with AIM on Windows is still abysmal at least for video. So I'll probably end up using MSN Messenger or one of the other many videochat options available on the PC. I have to say thoguht that I am very very thankful to Skype for having released a Mac version: already brought me so much closer to feeling like i am actually home with my family (and probably saved lots of $$ on long-distance phone bills)
4. do Office work... might as well since I can't stand working on the uber-sluggish Office X/2004
5. try out and play with fringe software like natural voice dictation and other cool new apps which seems to only ever come out for Windows
As you can tell, I am less than happy with my computer's performance. So I am chomping at the bit to see what a modern PC can offer in that regard.
However there are still enough reasons for me to like the Mac that I am still going to keep it as my main machine. I am holding off from getting a new Mac until Tiger is released, to see if it'll make a huge difference in Mac's performance. If it doesn't and if Mac's CPUs are still so under-specced by then, I'll probably put my Mac investment in maintenance mode.
Wow that was a lot of background... sorry about that!
Now on to the PC itself. Despite the impression I might have given above, I am actually not looking to buy the most powerful screaming machine out there. I am looking for some decently specced machine between $500 and $1000 (preferably closer to $500). Preferrably quiet (sorry, spoiled by Macs). P4 or Athlon type of performance. 2.8 Ghz+ or equivalent. 500 MB+ RAM. Good graphics performance (good enough for decent HL2 performance at 800x600 at least). Decent software package (WinXP, and something like Works). Above all, I want excellent reliability. I don't want no trouble with my new PC... no time for that anymore (maybe 5 years ago, would have been a different matter).
I am currently leaning toward a Dell, since they always seem to have these fantastic deals going on, with 17in LCDs thrown in for free and such. Or maybe an eMachine.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! I know it's odd that I ask this from a Mac forum, but I know many of you have been here already, probably for very similar reasons.
Comments
I own a computer store in canada and I also repair alot of Dells and EMachines (gateway)
Don't let talk you into anything at all. Their advertised price is a ploy to sell you the top - o - line equipment.
I went to Dell and put together a system for you which should do all that you had requested
Send me an email and I will send a PDF of the Dell configuration I had selected for you.
It costs 899.00 approx
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ..._n=3&WT.mc_t=U
Seemed to get a good review at C|Net:
http://reviews.cnet.com/eMachines_T3...7.html?tag=pop
If you're comfortable adding parts in, then just add a Radeon 9600XT in, and you're set. Total ~$750.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-338&depa=0
Never used an eMachine comp though, so I can't vouch for its reliability.
Do not purchase a Dell and do not, by any means, purchase an E-machine. As a matter of fact, if you purchase anything that can be bought at a Best Buy, Circuit City, or CompUSA, then you deserve anything negative that happens to you - along with the $60.00/hr. they will charge to fix your problems.
The best possible solution for you is to build the PC yourself. This is the sure-fire way of getting the power you want, at the price you want.
Now I know what you're probably saying, "I don't know how." That's a load of hogwash. It's like putting together a Lego set. This is the only website you will ever need in your quest to build a PC:
www.pricewatch.com
Here is the list of items you will need to build your computer:
1. Case w/power supply
2. Motherboard
3. Processor
4. RAM
5. Hard drive
6. Video Card
7. CD-Rom Drive (CD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-RW)
Now this is important because you're saying, "I don't know what I need to run the programs I stated." However, you're wrong.
Do some research and find out what your programs require, then build your PC with at least twice the power you'll need. I'll be willing to be that you can build a PC twice as powerful as your buddy's "Dell quote" and for a fraction of the price - or at least more powerful for the same money.
Bottom line:
For the love of God, don't switch to PC, Mac is the way to go - just upgrade your iBook and you will survive the quirks of Quicken for Apple.
If you must switch - at least do some research and build it on your own - don't sell out to these morons who are overcharging you for shitty components and "warranties" that aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
End Biased Opinion
Originally posted by RIAA Board Admin
Well it looks as though you've received the worst possible advice in the history of modern forums - so I'll try to fix up this hack-job of a thread.
Do not purchase a Dell and do not, by any means, purchase an E-machine. As a matter of fact, if you purchase anything that can be bought at a Best Buy, Circuit City, or CompUSA, then you deserve anything negative that happens to you - along with the $60.00/hr. they will charge to fix your problems.
The best possible solution for you is to build the PC yourself. This is the sure-fire way of getting the power you want, at the price you want.
Now I know what you're probably saying, "I don't know how." That's a load of hogwash. It's like putting together a Lego set. This is the only website you will ever need in your quest to build a PC:
www.pricewatch.com
Here is the list of items you will need to build your computer:
1. Case w/power supply
2. Motherboard
3. Processor
4. RAM
5. Hard drive
6. Video Card
7. CD-Rom Drive (CD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-RW)
Now this is important because you're saying, "I don't know what I need to run the programs I stated." However, you're wrong.
Do some research and find out what your programs require, then build your PC with at least twice the power you'll need. I'll be willing to be that you can build a PC twice as powerful as your buddy's "Dell quote" and for a fraction of the price - or at least more powerful for the same money.
Bottom line:
For the love of God, don't switch to PC, Mac is the way to go - just upgrade your iBook and you will survive the quirks of Quicken for Apple.
If you must switch - at least do some research and build it on your own - don't sell out to these morons who are overcharging you for shitty components and "warranties" that aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
End Biased Opinion
wow man, that's some thorough opionated stuff! I just finished watching "American Splendor" and I could just see Harvey Pekar, the main character, a gruff no-bullshit damn-straight guy, giving me the above no-nonsense admonition. Btw you've got to see that movie if you haven't: it's great!
For the love of God, don't switch to PC, Mac is the way to go - just upgrade your iBook and you will survive the quirks of Quicken for Apple.
Did you even see the part about the poster wanting to play Half Life 2, or games in general?
Cygsid: If you want to build a PC, I'll be more than glad to help point you towards components, but I'm guessing that you weren't particularly aiming to go that route.
Originally posted by eyelevel
Hope I can help;
I own a computer store in canada and I also repair alot of Dells and EMachines (gateway)
Don't let talk you into anything at all. Their advertised price is a ploy to sell you the top - o - line equipment.
I went to Dell and put together a system for you which should do all that you had requested
Send me an email and I will send a PDF of the Dell configuration I had selected for you.
It costs 899.00 approx
thanks for your reply eyelevel. I am slightly confused however at your answer... did u mean to say "don't let EMachines/gateway talk you into anything at all"?
If so, I've actually read some pretty good things lately about them, e.g. one of the links to a glowing review provided in a response by another poster. So I am not excluding them right off the bat the way I would have done it a couplea of years ago.
Originally posted by MCQ
Wow. Arguably one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. While I don't dispute that building your own PC is the most cost economical way to do things, you left the person to spend time researching and dealing with the process. Not even one link to a guide on how to put one together. You even go so far as to telling the user that they're wrong? Uh huh.
Did you even see the part about the poster wanting to play Half Life 2, or games in general?
Cygsid: If you want to build a PC, I'll be more than glad to help point you towards components, but I'm guessing that you weren't particularly aiming to go that route.
ok let's cool the rethoric down a bit here guys. Wouldn't want this thread to turn into a verbal slugfest.
MCQ you're right, I am not looking to switch away from the Mac, at least not anytime soon. Even though I have growing misgivings about my Mac experience lately (mostly regarding performance* and software availability & port quality), I am holding out hope that things will start improving soon, especially if Apple starts making some serious inroads marketshare-wise. The PC therefore is meant as a complement to my current iBook (and any future replacement).
Regarding building my own machine, I have taken that route before some six years ago: I basically chose the components and an integrator built the machine for me. It ended up costing me way more than I had expected. The end result was also not particularly breathtaking in any way. Some shoddy assembly here and there. I did that mostly to make sure every component was Linux-compatible at the time. Not a concern so much anymore. Plus integrated components are actually becoming pretty good these days. Witness the new Intel 915G chipset and its decent GMA 900 graphics performance. I also think most people who build their own machines go for the kind of high-end specs which end up easily costing a couple of grands before you know it. So I think I'll pass the DIY option.
* For the sake of illustration, as I am typing this, Safari is struggling to render the array of animated smiley GIFs, eating up some 40% more CPU than if I scroll up the window to hide the GIFs! What the .....?!? This is the kind of mind-boggling performance hits that drives me literally nuts!! (maybe I just suffer from some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder
Originally posted by cygsid
wow man, that's some thorough opionated stuff! I just finished watching "American Splendor" and I could just see Harvey Pekar, the main character, a gruff no-bullshit damn-straight guy, giving me the above no-nonsense admonition. Btw you've got to see that movie if you haven't: it's great!
Listen, he's right on one thing - Build it yourself!
You will learn sooooo much! It'll also be cheaper.
(BTW,have you listened to the commentary for Crumb by Harvey Pekar? I mixed it and I love my job.
Re: Safari - it sucks with regards to animated GIFs. Firefox appears to do a better job, CPU ~20% as opposed to ~50% for Safari on my 1 GHz PB when the smileys are on-screen.
Oh yeah - Half Life 2 rocks
Originally posted by Cake
Listen, he's right on one thing - Build it yourself!
You will learn sooooo much! It'll also be cheaper.
(BTW,have you listened to the commentary for Crumb by Harvey Pekar? I mixed it and I love my job.
No I haven't. I am really new to this whole American Splendor and "alternative comics" thing. My exposure to (and liking for) comics mostly dates back to the Tintin, Asterix & Obelix, and Les Tuniques Bleues of my childhood.
Now about the DIY option of building a PC myself, let's see....
Pros:
- learn a lot
- possibly cheaper
Cons:
- have to learn about the marketplace for each component, and what other components they work best with
- have to build the machine myself
- will probably end up with an ugly beige box
- will take longer to get a productive system than just ordering a PC and waiting for it to arrive
- no bundled OS or software: would probably be a lot more expensive to buy separately...
- no technical support or warranty for entire package: left to isolate problems on my own
It sure sounds like fun... if I was five years younger
I also find it ironic how a bunch of Mac users - who've presumably bought into that "whole widget" thing - push so hard for building a machine from discrete components and assembling it oneself with the risks of incompatibility and lack of integration involved... I basically want to make my PC buying-and-using experience as seamless as it can be on the PC side of things.
Originally posted by cygsid
No I haven't. I am really new to this whole American Splendor and "alternative comics" thing. My exposure to (and liking for) comics mostly dates back to the Tintin, Asterix & Obelix, and Les Tuniques Bleues of my childhood.
Now about the DIY option of building a PC myself, let's see....
Pros:
- learn a lot
- possibly cheaper
Cons:
- have to learn about the marketplace for each component, and what other components they work best with
- have to build the machine myself
- will probably end up with an ugly beige box
- will take longer to get a productive system than just ordering a PC and waiting for it to arrive
- no bundled OS or software: would probably be a lot more expensive to buy separately...
- no technical support or warranty for entire package: left to isolate problems on my own
It sure sounds like fun... if I was five years younger
I also find it ironic how a bunch of Mac users - who've presumably bought into that "whole widget" thing - push so hard for building a machine from discrete components and assembling it oneself with the risks of incompatibility and lack of integration involved... I basically want to make my PC buying-and-using experience as seamless as it can be on the PC side of things.
If any of the cons happen it's your own fault - you can purchase casings that are much cooler looking than any mainstream system.
Additionally, the previous posters probably know very little about PCs or simply want to sell you something. I'm telling you if you do one day's worth of research, you can purchase and build your own system with non of the cons you mentioned.
Software bundles result in software you don't need and wont use.
PC games can be played on Virtual PC with your Mac - if you upgrade.
Any problem you throw at me, I can solve in minutes - and with the help of these Mac forums (which are better than 100,000 dollars worth of tech support, you can too!
I recommend you listen to the people in here though, and purchase yourself a wonderful E-machine, Gateway, or Dell.
Originally posted by RIAA Board Admin
PC games can be played on Virtual PC with your Mac - if you upgrade.
Originally posted by Cake
the laughing is because the games don't run as well - but he could always put Linux on his PC and they will run PC games perfectly.
Regardless... you shouldn't laugh... these are options.
Originally posted by RIAA Board Admin
the laughing is because the games don't run as well - but he could always put Linux on his PC and they will run PC games perfectly.
Regardless... you shouldn't laugh... these are options.
I laugh because it really isn't an option.
If you had a clue, you'd know that VPC doesn't use the hardware - everything is emulated. Most games are completely unplayable unless you want to run Minesweeper or Solitare.
And why would he run Linux if he has a perfectly capable XP machine?
If he doesn't want to build a machine, he certainly isn't going to want to run Linux. Running Linux is a lot of work.
Many games are D3D only. Linux likes OpenGL. Sure, there's Doom III, but no Halo, no HL2, not to mention video card issues.
Originally posted by Cake
I laugh because it really isn't an option.
If you had a clue, you'd know that VPC doesn't use the hardware - everything is emulated. Most games are completely unplayable unless you want to run Minesweeper or Solitare.
And why would he run Linux if he has a perfectly capable XP machine?
If he doesn't want to build a machine, he certainly isn't going to want to run Linux. Running Linux is a lot of work.
Many games are D3D only. Linux likes OpenGL. Sure, there's Doom III, but no Halo, no HL2, not to mention video card issues.
\\
Cake, you should remove that "Senior Member" from your name. You obviously live in the shallow end of the technological pool.
While you're right about VPC using emulation, and that it isn't a good option for someone running Halo, you're a fool if you think Linux is a lot of work and incapable of running Halo 2 or any other Processor intensive game.
Have you ever heard of Cadega? Using this program in Linux, you can run ANY PC game effortlessly.
If you are going to get on an Apple forum and tell me that WINDOWS XP is better than Linux - you will soon find yourself with little or no respect.
I think that the original thread was misread
"Basically I am looking to the PC for a couple of things:
1. run Quicken (or Money) for personal finance: Quicken for Mac is such a piece of garbage I never really got into, despite trying very hard. I also evaluted other alternatives like iBank, but although well intentioned, they really can't hold a candle to full-featured and actually well-designed apps like Quicken for Windows. Also the lack of support for bank integration on the Mac side of the fence is just unbearable.
2. run the occasional (generally power-hungry) game... currently setting my sight on Half-Life 2. I basically had to give up game playing on the Mac, so woefully underpowered my machine is (G3 700) and so awfully inadequate the Mac's game selection is.
3. video-chat with my family back home, who use PCs. Wish I could use iChat AV, but last I read compatibility with AIM on Windows is still abysmal at least for video. So I'll probably end up using MSN Messenger or one of the other many videochat options available on the PC. I have to say thoguht that I am very very thankful to Skype for having released a Mac version: already brought me so much closer to feeling like i am actually home with my family (and probably saved lots of $$ on long-distance phone bills)
4. do Office work... might as well since I can't stand working on the uber-sluggish Office X/2004
5. try out and play with fringe software like natural voice dictation and other cool new apps which seems to only ever come out for Windows
Just go to Dell and get one SAVE TIME AND MONEY
And oh yes stay away from Emachine built by gateway.
P4 2.8GHz Hyperthread
2x512 Dual Channel DDR PC3200 400MHZ
Video-128 or 256 NVidia GForce
(I have played HL2 on both ATI & GForce)
120Gb HDD
Creative Sound 5.1 Channel
CDRW/DVD Combo drive
17" Flat Panet TFT Monitor
You could always get a Firewire card later if you wish.....
So that the MAC firewire components also will work with PC
ie; MACALLEY
Originally posted by RIAA Board Admin
Have you ever heard of Cadega? Using this program in Linux, you can run ANY PC game effortlessly.
I have a Cedega subscription and while it runs HL2 reasonably well, it's not as good as my main gaming rig under XP. That's a fact.
If you are going to get on an Apple forum and tell me that WINDOWS XP is better than Linux - you will soon find yourself with little or no respect.
That's a ridiculous comment.
And let's see how your rep holds up in time. Judging by your first few posts here....
Back to the point: cygsid is not going to run Linux. He's not going to buy a Cadega subscription.
He wants a capable XP machine hence the thread title "Need help choosing a desktop PC"
cygsid, your best bet is to go to Dell and configure yourself a fine machine with whatever your budget allows.
It would be a better thing to build, but Dell has pretty good tech support, good machines and fast delivery.
Good luck.
Originally posted by eyelevel
Just go to Dell and get one SAVE TIME AND MONEY
And oh yes stay away from Emachine built by gateway.
P4 2.8GHz Hyperthread
2x512 Dual Channel DDR PC3200 400MHZ
Video-128 or 256 NVidia GForce
(I have played HL2 on both ATI & GForce)
120Gb HDD
Creative Sound 5.1 Channel
CDRW/DVD Combo drive
17" Flat Panet TFT Monitor
You could always get a Firewire card later if you wish.....
So that the MAC firewire components also will work with PC
ie; MACALLEY
Nice eyelevel.
RIAA Admin, while I appreciate your advice, I do not appreciate your superior tone much, especially since some of your responses are completely incoherent, not to say irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It just makes you sound like a rambling testosterone-charged teenager with way too big of an ego.
Originally posted by Cake
Nice eyelevel.
I can't understand why you are fighting me on this - you know Linux is better... (more stable, more reliable, simple to use)
Why are you PC users so entranced with Dell???
You guys KNOW how easy it is to build PC's - why don't you help me convince this guy that he can do it -save a ton of money - and LEARN something in the process.
Tech support can be found ANYWHERE on the internet. Software bundles are not good because they overcharge for software you don't need.
Also, Cake, he COULD buy a Cadega subscription if you wouldn't keep convincing him that DELL is the only way to go.
What kind of computer techs are you guys anyway???
They should rename this the "Sell Out" Forum.