I didn't read all of this, but as a former Mac user (when i lived with my parents) and a current XP user (last 6 years @ college), here's my opinion:
- leaving out the mouse and keyboard is a good thing. Everybody buys there favorite one anyways (wireless USB, bluetooth, trackball, whatever) and wonders time after time why they have to pay for the silly basic things that come with every new computer.
- same thing (and maybe even more so) for speakers.
- 256MB of RAM does suck, and i hope they'll sell them in stores with 512MB, because now it's just lame and stupid. Especially considering the slow HD and OS X.
- lack of ports. I guess it's a good point, but how many ports should it have? Any way, 4 USB ports is a bare minimum. And they should have included the adapters for PC keybords and mice. On the other hand, a USB HUB is dirt cheap, so.
I guess most decisions make sense for a bare bones computer. The RAM does not. JMHO.
Before I bother muddling myself with any other posts:
steve666, the target consumer has how much money? Not much.
How much more do you pay for a Mac mini versus an eMachines or Dull? Very little.
The buyer who may already have a PC may now use OS X...and come on, who doesn't think OS X looks and feels neat?! I tried it out on some PC user/Mac dissers and they thought it was great (OS X). So if they already have a kb and mouse they needn't buy more. Also, they have the choice of buying their precious little 2 button mosue if they desire adn whatever stupid internet kb they want with the kwik-porn feature.
Frankly, if the less affluent consumer is in need of a computer, they have a choice of Mac or PC now. AppleWorks comes with OS X and I don't know many people that need Office for what they're doing. They're writing papers and letters! AppleWorks suffices besides the fact that I was fed up with Word long ago. The way it operates is a pain the butt.
The RAM, USB ports, graphics and bla bla bla means little to a consumer who can only afford a low end machine anyway. OS X will not run like crap unless you start doing more with it than you could afford to do with a PC and in the end...
you don't have to use Windows and that should say it all!!
What do you use a serial port for these days? Sure I have some printers, a 512KE mouse...crappy graphics tablets, but they're too slow to be useful.
steve666: I know you're obviously very upset about the RAM issue but its simply not an issue with a budget machine like this!
I have 512 and have Win98...thats right, NINETY-EIGHT actually soak up every bit of it while browsing a couple pages, chat msn, downloading with kazaa and playing mp3s. Come on...512 megs. Seriously. Put XP onto a machine with that much RAM...you've got bare bones RAM for that piece of toilet-contents.
Use OS X w/ 256? No problem unless you're ediitng video or something. Drop the RAM issue. Windows uses RAM in a way that I still don't understand after many years. It haphazardly runs out. The Mac however has always been more RAM-friendly.
One of the front-page headlines on today's LA TIMES was that people are getting frustrated with their computing experience (ie. Windows and DELL).
I think the MacMini is PERFECT. All this discussion about why it doesn't have a keyboard/monitor is missing the boat, IMHO. The mini was designed to attract people who ALREADY have a pc and are dissatisfied with it (ie. a lot of people) and sick and tired of getting hit with viruses, worms, etc. Apple is betting that if these people just try a mac, they will switch over. THAT is why the mini doesn't need a keyboard/monitor. Comparing a cheapo Dell w/monitor and keyboard and saying it's cheaper than the mini makes absolutely no sense at all.
My dad's home and office computer keep getting riddled with the latest viruses, etc. and he has norton installed. I'm getting a mini for him. And then later on, an iBook. And then later on, a PowerMac...do you begin to see the picture?
I would like to submit that the target customers for the Mac mini are the owners of iPods. The Pod people if you will.
Like the Unicorn, the four leaf clover, and the Pot-0-Gold; the "Halo Effect" Pod people were an unproven rumor, a mythical group targeted by the only people who have the actual numbers. Apple, Inc.
This untapped well of future computer purchasers (10 million strong and rapidly rising) was uncovered by Wall Street Journal columnists Tim Hanrahan and Jason Fry when a iPod user poll gave them preliminary indications of the Halo Effect's existence.
Apple's First Quarter numbers proved the theory, and the Mac mini the day before, proved Apple was going after the Pod people. Apple has the extreme advantage over the industry analysts and internet pundits, of the extensive market research and hard numbers provided by the Apple Stores as well as online and channel sales.
The Design Goal was the PRICE POINT: under $500
The Marketing Goal is "Less is More" and they are absolutely right, sometimes in unexpected ways.
There are iPod owners who have liked what they have seen in Apple products and are willing to give the Mac mini a try. BASED ON THE PRICE POINT! Apple found that price point by extensive survey of their Apple Store customers and market research in the channel.
Now to meet this price point, without threatening the iMac, Apple has had to walk a very fine line. Expandability had to be effectively eliminated. The Mini mac is by design a fixed platform, any significant expansion will be external.
An example is the Cube. You can get one now for $500. As shipped the Cube has ~ half the speed and > half the hard drive capacity. The difference is expandability. A Mac mini with a 3.5" HD and a replaceable processor card, not to mention an exchangeable GPU, would kill the iMac as hot rod geeks would soup it up and build a better mini. Apple cannot allow this, it's a survival thing, survival of the iMac.
So what they so brilliantly did was introduce a sub $500 price point computer that is a perfect switcher machine for the Pod people.
The base machine: Less is more, Life is Random. Go find a random USB keyboard and mouse and plug it in. Use your own monitor. Just unplug your Wintel tower that has slowed to a crawl anyway from ad ware, viruses and trojans, and carry it right to the dumpster... er I mean recycle it through eBay or some other environmentally safe method.
These people will be delighted with the Mac mini, it will perform their main task, acting as the base station for their iPod beyond comparison to the computer it is replacing. Everything they do will be easier and most likely faster than it was for them with their outdated Wintel system. (many of them running '98)
The Mac mini will be a dream machine for them. They will run one program at a time and it will work wonderfully for them. Those that are more advanced will get the memory upgrade and they will be happy with it's performance too.
These people will grow and their skills and needs will grow with them. They will put the Mac mini to good use as a music server when they buy their next Mac, probably an iMac.
To everyone talking about how much more you get with the cheap PC please follow the steps below.
1. Go to dell.com.
2. Click the cheap PC (AKA Dimension 3000).
3. Leave it on the 2.4 processor (I'm not getting into the speed comparison)
4. Bump to Windows XP Professional.
5. Move to the 1 year warranty. Longer phone service than Apple but you'll be on hold for hours and won't be able to understand the tech anyway. You also can visit a Mac Genius at the Apple Store for free help.
6. Leave it on the 512 memory
7. Leave it on the 40 Gig Drive.
8. Select CD-RW/DVD-ROM.
9. Add RecordNow! since you'll want to make it a little easier to burn...
10. Save $50 remove the monitor.
11. Add IEEE 1394.
12. Click Update Price.
New total $685 +$50 mail in rebate. This still lacks option to add Wireless and Bluetooth.
Now, try this.
1. Go to Apple.com
2. Get to the Mac Mini on the Apple Store.
3. Up it to 512 MB Ram
4. Add wired keyboard and mouse
5. Click Update
New total $632. This also includes a REAL GPU (32 MB rather than integrated that uses your CPU).
I'd say Apple did a pretty good job with the price and it will still look GOOD on your desk!
Before I bother muddling myself with any other posts:
steve666, the target consumer has how much money? Not much.
How much more do you pay for a Mac mini versus an eMachines or Dull? Very little.
The buyer who may already have a PC may now use OS X...and come on, who doesn't think OS X looks and feels neat?! I tried it out on some PC user/Mac dissers and they thought it was great (OS X). So if they already have a kb and mouse they needn't buy more. Also, they have the choice of buying their precious little 2 button mosue if they desire adn whatever stupid internet kb they want with the kwik-porn feature.
Frankly, if the less affluent consumer is in need of a computer, they have a choice of Mac or PC now. AppleWorks comes with OS X and I don't know many people that need Office for what they're doing. They're writing papers and letters! AppleWorks suffices besides the fact that I was fed up with Word long ago. The way it operates is a pain the butt.
The RAM, USB ports, graphics and bla bla bla means little to a consumer who can only afford a low end machine anyway. OS X will not run like crap unless you start doing more with it than you could afford to do with a PC and in the end...
you don't have to use Windows and that should say it all!!
Low-end PCs come complete with everything. The mini doesnt. He is supposed to be selling to PC users, not us.
Apple always low-balls their hardware and leaves off something necessary. Its getting tiresome.
maybe they want to open it, and stick in in their kvm box? ;-)
I am one of those PC users, this means I want to fit the mac mini into my infrastructure: VGA, PS/2 keyboard and mouse (adapters would be missing), Fast Ethernet.
That would be my next dilemma. Does anyone know for certain, if I could just plug in an 512MB DIMM?
Yes, thats quite annoying. If you use USB keyboard and mouse, you won't be able to stick anything else into it without a hub.
Although Firewire is included, it is still missing on most of the cheap pc mainboards.
I'm also missing standard RS232 Ports, and a LineIn or Microphone Jacket.
David
RAM can only be installed by Apple or a Apple reseller.
There is only one RAM slot so if you want to increase to 512Mb you have to take out the 256 and add a 512. How silly is this? Welcome to Apple!
On what grounds is it ridiculous. You can't just say that something should be included otherwise its ridiculous...there's no proof.
Ask any PC user who is going to buy a mini that theres no keyboard and mouse. Of course its ridiculous. They are advertising a $499 computer thats not really a $499 computer. They would have been better off, IMHO, if they included a keyboard, mouse, and 512Mb RAM and just charged $599-because that is what it will take to make the mini useable for most people.
What do you use a serial port for these days? Sure I have some printers, a 512KE mouse...crappy graphics tablets, but they're too slow to be useful.
steve666: I know you're obviously very upset about the RAM issue but its simply not an issue with a budget machine like this!
I have 512 and have Win98...thats right, NINETY-EIGHT actually soak up every bit of it while browsing a couple pages, chat msn, downloading with kazaa and playing mp3s. Come on...512 megs. Seriously. Put XP onto a machine with that much RAM...you've got bare bones RAM for that piece of toilet-contents.
Use OS X w/ 256? No problem unless you're ediitng video or something. Drop the RAM issue. Windows uses RAM in a way that I still don't understand after many years. It haphazardly runs out. The Mac however has always been more RAM-friendly.
Really? I guess you never used OS9!
Check the activity monitor next time you've been online for a couple hours and have small apps like preview and maybe quicktime open.
I did and my machine was using 300Mb RAM. 256Mb is not enough for OSX. It was plenty for OS9, but not OSX.
I agree with you that limited USB ports, no bundled keyboard/mouse, only service tech installed ram etc. are issues. And this will be an issue for many computer buyers.
This is not the world shattering, life altering machine that will convert the world to Macs. But will it more than meet the needs of many people - I believe yes it will and it will increase Apple's market share. How much who knows.
As far as the ram and keyboard/mouse issue, I'll bet a bundle(pun intended) that third party retailers will offer some bundles including either ram upgrades or keyboard/mouse upgrades or both. Maybe free or at ridiculously low prices.(maybe even a USB hub or two thrown in for good measure)
They'll advertise -Got a keyboard/mouse that will work, get the ram upgrade for $25 installation.
Don't need ram, got a keyboard/mouse already well then here's a mighty fine USB hub for free
Need a monitor well we'll just bundle this 17" LCD monitor just for you for only $179.99.
This is a third party retailers dream come true. OS X goodness with upgrades to pad the bottom line galore.
Then again I could be all wrong and no one will come to the party and Apple is doomed again.
I agree with you that limited USB ports, no bundled keyboard/mouse, only service tech installed ram etc. are issues. And this will be an issue for many computer buyers.
This is not the world shattering, life altering machine that will convert the world to Macs. But will it more than meet the needs of many people - I believe yes it will and it will increase Apple's market share. How much who knows.
As far as the ram and keyboard/mouse issue, I'll bet a bundle(pun intended) that third party retailers will offer some bundles including either ram upgrades or keyboard/mouse upgrades or both. Maybe free or at ridiculously low prices.(maybe even a USB hub or two thrown in for good measure)
They'll advertise -Got a keyboard/mouse that will work, get the ram upgrade for $25 installation.
Don't need ram, got a keyboard/mouse already well then here's a mighty fine USB hub for free
Need a monitor well we'll just bundle this 17" LCD monitor just for you for only $179.99.
This is a third party retailers dream come true. OS X goodness with upgrades to pad the bottom line galore.
Then again I could be all wrong and no one will come to the party and Apple is doomed again.
I think you have a point and I have already seen some bundles online for rebates on keyboards and mice, etc.
Did you guys know the hard drive in the mini is only 4200rpm? Thats dirt slow, I wonder how much it will affect performance?
Great post. It's a pretty good box for a lot of people who already own Macs too.
And that is one of the "unexpected ways" the Mac mini will find itself niches to prosper in. To many mac users it will be an iServe to act as a file and music server. It's the perfect compliment to any existing modern Macintosh. A home base for your Powerbook or iBook. Or a music box for your production environment.
Home theater systems will be built around it. For many it will replace the CD jukebox in their stereo system, heck for many people it will be their stereo.
Thousands of kiosks will be built with the Mac mini at their heart. Just wait for the photos of Mac mini's replacing the stereo in the dashboard of cars start coming in. They'll be playing DVD's for the kids in the back.
Schools and geek nerds will have clusters of them to test out software without tying up multi-million dollar production and research clusters. (VT are you interested in a lab of mini clusters to teach students how to program for The Big Mac?).
Apple has conceived a full platform in the Mac mini, it is a paradigm shift in the computing landscape. It will be so successful, on so many levels, that it insures Apple's permanent return to relevancy in the future of computing.
Not bad for a platform that is designed to a minimum price point, and designed for a particular niche within a niche. Those Pod people are sure earning their halos.
Did you guys know the hard drive in the mini is only 4200rpm? Thats dirt slow, I wonder how much it will affect performance?
Same speed as comes stock in every PowerBook. Yes, it affects performance somewhat, but this is a low end computer. It surprises me more that PowerBooks still come stock with 4200s.
Ask any PC user who is going to buy a mini that theres no keyboard and mouse. Of course its ridiculous.
Most of the keyboards that come with low-end PCs are crap. I think it's good to have a choice. You can get a nice one from MacAlly or Kensington if you like. Are you aware that early Macs never came with keyboards in the box? Apple gave the user a choice, although the choice of ADB keyboards was pretty limited.
Same speed as comes stock in every PowerBook. Yes, it affects performance somewhat, but this is a low end computer. It surprises me more that PowerBooks still come stock with 4200s.
I'm going to wait and see what the benchmarks are in comparison to other desktops, eMac included.
I was going to run out and buy one before it was announced. I need a CD burner for my G3iMacDV400 so i gihured instead of spending a hundred bucks on a burner I would spend $500 on the new computer.
Now, i think I'll wait for more info and experiences and wait until Tiger is preloaded on it.
that analysis is silly...entry level users are NOT the target market, the entry level price was the target...the Mac mini is response to the question: "why doesn't Apple offere a stripped down Mac that is more affordable? "
it's not an attempt to sell to entry level...this is for every person who complains that they want to use their own keyboard/mouse not the ugly white Apple ones and who already have a perfectly good monitor - why should i get an e/iMac ? - or don't want to drop $1200 when they already have a good custom built PC at home so i know how to shop for my own keyboardsmouseandmonitors - or, i already upgraded to an LCD and bluetooth keyboard/mouse, i can have another Mac mini with my leftover CRT/original keyboad/mouse for $600
- all these folks aren't entry level first time buyers...
if a first time buyer goes into a store and starts adding up accessories, they'll realize they're better off buying an iBook/iMac/eMac that's set up right next to it 'cuz they are elegant designs of everything you need in the box.
Apple always low-balls their hardware and leaves off something necessary. Its getting tiresome.
I guarantee you that if Apple had INCLUDED the keyboard and mouse, at a price of $549 to accommodate them, there would be a thread twice as long as this one with everybody complaining
"why should I have to pay for teh mouse and teh keyboard, I want to CHOOSE my own blah blah blah.."
"I already have a 9-button optical laser gasoline powered mouse and I don't want to pay for that Apple one blah blah blah.."
Now the fact is, Apple didn't "leave off" anything. You can easily add the mouse and keyboard right there in the CTO page if those are the components that you want.
And if you claim that they should have included the mouse and kb and STILL kept the price at $499, I'm guaranteeing that there would be complainers that "Apple should have made the mouse and keyboard an OPTION and reduced the price to $459".
Those who don't want the Apple peripherals can bring or buy their own.
Those who do want them can buy them when they buy the computer.
Comments
- leaving out the mouse and keyboard is a good thing. Everybody buys there favorite one anyways (wireless USB, bluetooth, trackball, whatever) and wonders time after time why they have to pay for the silly basic things that come with every new computer.
- same thing (and maybe even more so) for speakers.
- 256MB of RAM does suck, and i hope they'll sell them in stores with 512MB, because now it's just lame and stupid. Especially considering the slow HD and OS X.
- lack of ports. I guess it's a good point, but how many ports should it have? Any way, 4 USB ports is a bare minimum. And they should have included the adapters for PC keybords and mice. On the other hand, a USB HUB is dirt cheap, so.
I guess most decisions make sense for a bare bones computer. The RAM does not. JMHO.
steve666, the target consumer has how much money? Not much.
How much more do you pay for a Mac mini versus an eMachines or Dull? Very little.
The buyer who may already have a PC may now use OS X...and come on, who doesn't think OS X looks and feels neat?! I tried it out on some PC user/Mac dissers and they thought it was great (OS X). So if they already have a kb and mouse they needn't buy more. Also, they have the choice of buying their precious little 2 button mosue if they desire adn whatever stupid internet kb they want with the kwik-porn feature.
Frankly, if the less affluent consumer is in need of a computer, they have a choice of Mac or PC now. AppleWorks comes with OS X and I don't know many people that need Office for what they're doing. They're writing papers and letters! AppleWorks suffices besides the fact that I was fed up with Word long ago. The way it operates is a pain the butt.
The RAM, USB ports, graphics and bla bla bla means little to a consumer who can only afford a low end machine anyway. OS X will not run like crap unless you start doing more with it than you could afford to do with a PC and in the end...
you don't have to use Windows and that should say it all!!
On what grounds is it ridiculous. You can't just say that something should be included otherwise its ridiculous...there's no proof.
I'm also missing standard RS232 Ports - Incoming
Yeah...since Macs have had those lately.
What do you use a serial port for these days? Sure I have some printers, a 512KE mouse...crappy graphics tablets, but they're too slow to be useful.
steve666: I know you're obviously very upset about the RAM issue but its simply not an issue with a budget machine like this!
I have 512 and have Win98...thats right, NINETY-EIGHT actually soak up every bit of it while browsing a couple pages, chat msn, downloading with kazaa and playing mp3s. Come on...512 megs. Seriously. Put XP onto a machine with that much RAM...you've got bare bones RAM for that piece of toilet-contents.
Use OS X w/ 256? No problem unless you're ediitng video or something. Drop the RAM issue. Windows uses RAM in a way that I still don't understand after many years. It haphazardly runs out. The Mac however has always been more RAM-friendly.
I think the MacMini is PERFECT. All this discussion about why it doesn't have a keyboard/monitor is missing the boat, IMHO. The mini was designed to attract people who ALREADY have a pc and are dissatisfied with it (ie. a lot of people) and sick and tired of getting hit with viruses, worms, etc. Apple is betting that if these people just try a mac, they will switch over. THAT is why the mini doesn't need a keyboard/monitor. Comparing a cheapo Dell w/monitor and keyboard and saying it's cheaper than the mini makes absolutely no sense at all.
My dad's home and office computer keep getting riddled with the latest viruses, etc. and he has norton installed. I'm getting a mini for him. And then later on, an iBook. And then later on, a PowerMac...do you begin to see the picture?
Genius. Pure genius.
CASE CLOSED.
Like the Unicorn, the four leaf clover, and the Pot-0-Gold; the "Halo Effect" Pod people were an unproven rumor, a mythical group targeted by the only people who have the actual numbers. Apple, Inc.
This untapped well of future computer purchasers (10 million strong and rapidly rising) was uncovered by Wall Street Journal columnists Tim Hanrahan and Jason Fry when a iPod user poll gave them preliminary indications of the Halo Effect's existence.
Apple's First Quarter numbers proved the theory, and the Mac mini the day before, proved Apple was going after the Pod people. Apple has the extreme advantage over the industry analysts and internet pundits, of the extensive market research and hard numbers provided by the Apple Stores as well as online and channel sales.
The Design Goal was the PRICE POINT: under $500
The Marketing Goal is "Less is More" and they are absolutely right, sometimes in unexpected ways.
There are iPod owners who have liked what they have seen in Apple products and are willing to give the Mac mini a try. BASED ON THE PRICE POINT! Apple found that price point by extensive survey of their Apple Store customers and market research in the channel.
Now to meet this price point, without threatening the iMac, Apple has had to walk a very fine line. Expandability had to be effectively eliminated. The Mini mac is by design a fixed platform, any significant expansion will be external.
An example is the Cube. You can get one now for $500. As shipped the Cube has ~ half the speed and > half the hard drive capacity. The difference is expandability. A Mac mini with a 3.5" HD and a replaceable processor card, not to mention an exchangeable GPU, would kill the iMac as hot rod geeks would soup it up and build a better mini. Apple cannot allow this, it's a survival thing, survival of the iMac.
So what they so brilliantly did was introduce a sub $500 price point computer that is a perfect switcher machine for the Pod people.
The base machine: Less is more, Life is Random. Go find a random USB keyboard and mouse and plug it in. Use your own monitor. Just unplug your Wintel tower that has slowed to a crawl anyway from ad ware, viruses and trojans, and carry it right to the dumpster... er I mean recycle it through eBay or some other environmentally safe method.
These people will be delighted with the Mac mini, it will perform their main task, acting as the base station for their iPod beyond comparison to the computer it is replacing. Everything they do will be easier and most likely faster than it was for them with their outdated Wintel system. (many of them running '98)
The Mac mini will be a dream machine for them. They will run one program at a time and it will work wonderfully for them. Those that are more advanced will get the memory upgrade and they will be happy with it's performance too.
These people will grow and their skills and needs will grow with them. They will put the Mac mini to good use as a music server when they buy their next Mac, probably an iMac.
Originally posted by Tomahawk
To everyone talking about how much more you get with the cheap PC please follow the steps below.
1. Go to dell.com.
2. Click the cheap PC (AKA Dimension 3000).
3. Leave it on the 2.4 processor (I'm not getting into the speed comparison)
4. Bump to Windows XP Professional.
5. Move to the 1 year warranty. Longer phone service than Apple but you'll be on hold for hours and won't be able to understand the tech anyway. You also can visit a Mac Genius at the Apple Store for free help.
6. Leave it on the 512 memory
7. Leave it on the 40 Gig Drive.
8. Select CD-RW/DVD-ROM.
9. Add RecordNow! since you'll want to make it a little easier to burn...
10. Save $50 remove the monitor.
11. Add IEEE 1394.
12. Click Update Price.
New total $685 +$50 mail in rebate. This still lacks option to add Wireless and Bluetooth.
Now, try this.
1. Go to Apple.com
2. Get to the Mac Mini on the Apple Store.
3. Up it to 512 MB Ram
4. Add wired keyboard and mouse
5. Click Update
New total $632. This also includes a REAL GPU (32 MB rather than integrated that uses your CPU).
I'd say Apple did a pretty good job with the price and it will still look GOOD on your desk!
Absolutely the best post so far.
Originally posted by Aphelion
I would like to submit that the target customers for the Mac mini are the owners of iPods. The Pod people if you will.
Great post. It's a pretty good box for a lot of people who already own Macs too.
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
Before I bother muddling myself with any other posts:
steve666, the target consumer has how much money? Not much.
How much more do you pay for a Mac mini versus an eMachines or Dull? Very little.
The buyer who may already have a PC may now use OS X...and come on, who doesn't think OS X looks and feels neat?! I tried it out on some PC user/Mac dissers and they thought it was great (OS X). So if they already have a kb and mouse they needn't buy more. Also, they have the choice of buying their precious little 2 button mosue if they desire adn whatever stupid internet kb they want with the kwik-porn feature.
Frankly, if the less affluent consumer is in need of a computer, they have a choice of Mac or PC now. AppleWorks comes with OS X and I don't know many people that need Office for what they're doing. They're writing papers and letters! AppleWorks suffices besides the fact that I was fed up with Word long ago. The way it operates is a pain the butt.
The RAM, USB ports, graphics and bla bla bla means little to a consumer who can only afford a low end machine anyway. OS X will not run like crap unless you start doing more with it than you could afford to do with a PC and in the end...
you don't have to use Windows and that should say it all!!
Low-end PCs come complete with everything. The mini doesnt. He is supposed to be selling to PC users, not us.
Apple always low-balls their hardware and leaves off something necessary. Its getting tiresome.
Originally posted by Incoming
maybe they want to open it, and stick in in their kvm box? ;-)
I am one of those PC users, this means I want to fit the mac mini into my infrastructure: VGA, PS/2 keyboard and mouse (adapters would be missing), Fast Ethernet.
That would be my next dilemma. Does anyone know for certain, if I could just plug in an 512MB DIMM?
Yes, thats quite annoying. If you use USB keyboard and mouse, you won't be able to stick anything else into it without a hub.
Although Firewire is included, it is still missing on most of the cheap pc mainboards.
I'm also missing standard RS232 Ports, and a LineIn or Microphone Jacket.
David
RAM can only be installed by Apple or a Apple reseller.
There is only one RAM slot so if you want to increase to 512Mb you have to take out the 256 and add a 512. How silly is this? Welcome to Apple!
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
"Guess again. Its ridiculous not to include them"
On what grounds is it ridiculous. You can't just say that something should be included otherwise its ridiculous...there's no proof.
Ask any PC user who is going to buy a mini that theres no keyboard and mouse. Of course its ridiculous. They are advertising a $499 computer thats not really a $499 computer. They would have been better off, IMHO, if they included a keyboard, mouse, and 512Mb RAM and just charged $599-because that is what it will take to make the mini useable for most people.
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
Yeah...since Macs have had those lately.
What do you use a serial port for these days? Sure I have some printers, a 512KE mouse...crappy graphics tablets, but they're too slow to be useful.
steve666: I know you're obviously very upset about the RAM issue but its simply not an issue with a budget machine like this!
I have 512 and have Win98...thats right, NINETY-EIGHT actually soak up every bit of it while browsing a couple pages, chat msn, downloading with kazaa and playing mp3s. Come on...512 megs. Seriously. Put XP onto a machine with that much RAM...you've got bare bones RAM for that piece of toilet-contents.
Use OS X w/ 256? No problem unless you're ediitng video or something. Drop the RAM issue. Windows uses RAM in a way that I still don't understand after many years. It haphazardly runs out. The Mac however has always been more RAM-friendly.
Really? I guess you never used OS9!
Check the activity monitor next time you've been online for a couple hours and have small apps like preview and maybe quicktime open.
I did and my machine was using 300Mb RAM. 256Mb is not enough for OSX. It was plenty for OS9, but not OSX.
I agree with you that limited USB ports, no bundled keyboard/mouse, only service tech installed ram etc. are issues. And this will be an issue for many computer buyers.
This is not the world shattering, life altering machine that will convert the world to Macs. But will it more than meet the needs of many people - I believe yes it will and it will increase Apple's market share. How much who knows.
As far as the ram and keyboard/mouse issue, I'll bet a bundle(pun intended) that third party retailers will offer some bundles including either ram upgrades or keyboard/mouse upgrades or both. Maybe free or at ridiculously low prices.(maybe even a USB hub or two thrown in for good measure)
They'll advertise -Got a keyboard/mouse that will work, get the ram upgrade for $25 installation.
Don't need ram, got a keyboard/mouse already well then here's a mighty fine USB hub for free
Need a monitor well we'll just bundle this 17" LCD monitor just for you for only $179.99.
This is a third party retailers dream come true. OS X goodness with upgrades to pad the bottom line galore.
Then again I could be all wrong and no one will come to the party and Apple is doomed again.
Originally posted by rickag
steve666
I agree with you that limited USB ports, no bundled keyboard/mouse, only service tech installed ram etc. are issues. And this will be an issue for many computer buyers.
This is not the world shattering, life altering machine that will convert the world to Macs. But will it more than meet the needs of many people - I believe yes it will and it will increase Apple's market share. How much who knows.
As far as the ram and keyboard/mouse issue, I'll bet a bundle(pun intended) that third party retailers will offer some bundles including either ram upgrades or keyboard/mouse upgrades or both. Maybe free or at ridiculously low prices.(maybe even a USB hub or two thrown in for good measure)
They'll advertise -Got a keyboard/mouse that will work, get the ram upgrade for $25 installation.
Don't need ram, got a keyboard/mouse already well then here's a mighty fine USB hub for free
Need a monitor well we'll just bundle this 17" LCD monitor just for you for only $179.99.
This is a third party retailers dream come true. OS X goodness with upgrades to pad the bottom line galore.
Then again I could be all wrong and no one will come to the party and Apple is doomed again.
I think you have a point and I have already seen some bundles online for rebates on keyboards and mice, etc.
Did you guys know the hard drive in the mini is only 4200rpm? Thats dirt slow, I wonder how much it will affect performance?
Originally posted by iDave
Great post. It's a pretty good box for a lot of people who already own Macs too.
And that is one of the "unexpected ways" the Mac mini will find itself niches to prosper in. To many mac users it will be an iServe to act as a file and music server. It's the perfect compliment to any existing modern Macintosh. A home base for your Powerbook or iBook. Or a music box for your production environment.
Home theater systems will be built around it. For many it will replace the CD jukebox in their stereo system, heck for many people it will be their stereo.
Thousands of kiosks will be built with the Mac mini at their heart. Just wait for the photos of Mac mini's replacing the stereo in the dashboard of cars start coming in. They'll be playing DVD's for the kids in the back.
Schools and geek nerds will have clusters of them to test out software without tying up multi-million dollar production and research clusters. (VT are you interested in a lab of mini clusters to teach students how to program for The Big Mac?).
Apple has conceived a full platform in the Mac mini, it is a paradigm shift in the computing landscape. It will be so successful, on so many levels, that it insures Apple's permanent return to relevancy in the future of computing.
Not bad for a platform that is designed to a minimum price point, and designed for a particular niche within a niche. Those Pod people are sure earning their halos.
Originally posted by steve666
Did you guys know the hard drive in the mini is only 4200rpm? Thats dirt slow, I wonder how much it will affect performance?
Same speed as comes stock in every PowerBook. Yes, it affects performance somewhat, but this is a low end computer. It surprises me more that PowerBooks still come stock with 4200s.
Originally posted by steve666
Ask any PC user who is going to buy a mini that theres no keyboard and mouse. Of course its ridiculous.
Most of the keyboards that come with low-end PCs are crap. I think it's good to have a choice. You can get a nice one from MacAlly or Kensington if you like. Are you aware that early Macs never came with keyboards in the box? Apple gave the user a choice, although the choice of ADB keyboards was pretty limited.
Originally posted by iDave
Same speed as comes stock in every PowerBook. Yes, it affects performance somewhat, but this is a low end computer. It surprises me more that PowerBooks still come stock with 4200s.
I'm going to wait and see what the benchmarks are in comparison to other desktops, eMac included.
I was going to run out and buy one before it was announced. I need a CD burner for my G3iMacDV400 so i gihured instead of spending a hundred bucks on a burner I would spend $500 on the new computer.
Now, i think I'll wait for more info and experiences and wait until Tiger is preloaded on it.
Originally posted by steve666
Check this link for a decent analysis of the mini and its target customer:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...13/bs_nf/29707
that analysis is silly...entry level users are NOT the target market, the entry level price was the target...the Mac mini is response to the question: "why doesn't Apple offere a stripped down Mac that is more affordable? "
it's not an attempt to sell to entry level...this is for every person who complains that they want to use their own keyboard/mouse not the ugly white Apple ones and who already have a perfectly good monitor - why should i get an e/iMac ? - or don't want to drop $1200 when they already have a good custom built PC at home so i know how to shop for my own keyboardsmouseandmonitors - or, i already upgraded to an LCD and bluetooth keyboard/mouse, i can have another Mac mini with my leftover CRT/original keyboad/mouse for $600
- all these folks aren't entry level first time buyers...
if a first time buyer goes into a store and starts adding up accessories, they'll realize they're better off buying an iBook/iMac/eMac that's set up right next to it 'cuz they are elegant designs of everything you need in the box.
Originally posted by steve666
Apple always low-balls their hardware and leaves off something necessary. Its getting tiresome.
I guarantee you that if Apple had INCLUDED the keyboard and mouse, at a price of $549 to accommodate them, there would be a thread twice as long as this one with everybody complaining
"why should I have to pay for teh mouse and teh keyboard, I want to CHOOSE my own blah blah blah.."
"I already have a 9-button optical laser gasoline powered mouse and I don't want to pay for that Apple one blah blah blah.."
Now the fact is, Apple didn't "leave off" anything. You can easily add the mouse and keyboard right there in the CTO page if those are the components that you want.
And if you claim that they should have included the mouse and kb and STILL kept the price at $499, I'm guaranteeing that there would be complainers that "Apple should have made the mouse and keyboard an OPTION and reduced the price to $459".
Those who don't want the Apple peripherals can bring or buy their own.
Those who do want them can buy them when they buy the computer.
Everyone has their option that they want.