Haha.. a good XP workstation is just as stable as OS X, it's really just a difference in features and ease of use. And that one guy is right, if youre just starting out, nothing on a PC compares to iMovie. Plus a Mac will last you longer and when you're always on a budget, that's definitely a good thing.
Haha.. a good XP workstation is just as stable as OS X, it's really just a difference in features and ease of use.
Are you sure? I can't ever remember of any widespread form of virus/worm/spyware etc. on the Macintosh platform.
Anyway, back on the original topic:
Forget about everyone's advice about buying a Powermac. You are 15, right? It's a few more years before you go to film school. Even the fastest Powermac available today is going to be too slow for the high-quality, high-definition, real-time effects that will be required at your film school. Might as well start saving so you can have that machine when you actually attend the school.
In the meantime, you probably want to play around with current DV cameras. Standard definition video does not require a lot of computational power nor does it require a whole lot of money (which is good since you seem to be on a budget.)
An iMac or even the Mac mini will do the job. A 3CCD DV camcorder and FCP is the equivalent of Beta SP and old Media 100s (These used to be broadcast quality stuff about 10 years ago. You will learn about those semi-ancient technologies in school.)
If you still have money, get some lighting and audio equipment. There are so many ways to use lighting and the various types of microphones. It is an art in itself. Filming (videotaping) is more than just a camera and a editing suite.
BTW, whatever you get, don't skimp on RAM and Hard drive space.
The only time film students will be working with FCP is when they're editing their first video projects before advancing into 16mm film.
You are so wrong. He's fifteen years old. By the time he's old enough to be doing any serious work, FCP will have progressed -- both in terms of functionality and market share.
Currently Avid is the standard, but at least here in LA, FCP is becoming more common every day. For you to discourage someone from learning FCP for the reasons you stated is bad advice.
actually, while film students are currently using 16mm, i think it's only a matter of time before they convert to video completely. a few friends of mine have taken directing classes at ucla and usc and they're starting to use video. i work in the a related field to the film industry and i think the hd video wave is just starting. i think fcp will have a good head-start in that arena since so many people can learn it and use it for hd at a relatively cheap price compared to avids.
actually, while film students are currently using 16mm, i think it's only a matter of time before they convert to video completely. a few friends of mine have taken directing classes at ucla and usc and they're starting to use video. i work in the a related field to the film industry and i think the hd video wave is just starting. i think fcp will have a good head-start in that arena since so many people can learn it and use it for hd at a relatively cheap price compared to avids.
You are so wrong. He's fifteen years old. By the time he's old enough to be doing any serious work, FCP will have progressed -- both in terms of functionality and market share.
Currently Avid is the standard, but at least here in LA, FCP is becoming more common every day. For you to discourage someone from learning FCP for the reasons you stated is bad advice.
WOW people... you're REALLY showing your knowledge now. How was I discouraging this kid from not using FCP?? I use BOTH programs and I PREFER FCP. I was just giving him a heads up on the industry standard.. because in a lot of fields, I seriously doubt Avid is going away before the kid gets into film school. I do agree that 16mm might eventuaally be replaced by video however.. it seems a lot of film schools have been able to cut costs effectively this way with little tradeoff. Also.. there IS a big difference in INDIE filmmaking, and working for a studio editing films. If he really wants to take the Indie route, any program might do fine.. even Vegas is a great choice for PC users. But FCP will never become the standard in big time editing suites.. show me an FCP machine that can do what a high-end Avid accelerated machine can do. Discouraging the kid? I'm just giving him ALL the facts.
Are you sure? I can't ever remember of any widespread form of virus/worm/spyware etc. on the Macintosh platform.
Sure.. just don't connect your Xp (PRO) workstation to the internet Windows is a fantastic platform when you leave that out!
Seriously, I hate windows, but it DOES do a lot of things faster. Don't hate me just because I defend it. I own 3 macs and my dell sits idly in the corner of my house collecting dust for a reason.. i'm on your side! Geesh.
it's true that most major edit houses use avid's still. but of the editors i've worked with, many of them use final cut at home for their own personal projects. i haven't heard of any big edit houses switching to fcp yet but it is gaining in acceptance in a way that premiere never had. it might not take over avid's position in established edit houses, but we probably won't know that until fcp reaches a great maturity point AND the edit houses reach the end of their equipment leases.
i know almost every editor i've worked with is a pretty big mac fanatic, so the desire to go to fcp is there if they can only fix a few of the things that they find deficient compared to avids. device control in fcp was supposedly very subpar compared to avid.
either way, fcp is an easier program to get into because the price of entry is lower. i don't think the app itself is as important as the technique and sense of rhythm, which can be learned in either program. consider that still a large percentage of avid editors used to cut physical film. all of them i've asked about the change to digital said it's not a matter of the tools, it's a matter of the technique.
in any case, he'd have to start as an editor's assist at any edit house so he'd have time to learn the avid system and apply the knowledge that he's learned from fcp.
I would suggest getting a refurbished/used powermac and using your old monitor until you can afford a new one. With the price of LCDs dropping, you might even have one in your future as a present from your parents.
Since you are interested in video editing, I think a powermac is the way to go. You'll need storage and RAM in order to work with video without everything getting very unresponsive.
email + web browsing + school work == mac mini
email + web browsing + school work + video editing == powermac
A powermac will keep you satisfied through at least the end of highschool. A mac mini will be slow from the start for video editing.
At the very least, an iMac would allow you to upgrade ram later on. The iMac also has a quicker and standard size hard drive instead of one designed for a laptop.
apple.com sells refurbished iMacs:
iMac G5 1.8GHz/ 256MB/ 80GB/ SuperDrive/ 56K/ 17-inch - Apple Certified for $1299 (free shipping)
email + web browsing + school work + video editing == powermac
apple.com sells refurbished iMacs:
iMac G5 1.8GHz/ 256MB/ 80GB/ SuperDrive/ 56K/ 17-inch - Apple Certified for $1299 (free shipping)
I'd go with a 20 inch iMac over the Powermac unless you have a good monitor. The LCD screen on the iMac is impressive, large and the whole thing has a smaller footprint, easier to transport.
As an indie filmmaker myself you really should be asking this question on a film board rather then a mac board. It's obvious that on a mac board you'll get people trying to sell you a mac no matter what.
I just finished editing a feature film on a PC with Windows XP and Vegas 5. I never had a single problem with it and my hardware was half as powerful as yours.
People will try to tell you that FCP is the industry standard. It's not. Avid is. It's making a lot of headway as the second most used NLE in the industry but who cares. Unless you get a job as an editor in the industry that doesn't really matter. Because you'll probably edit your own film so you should pick and use what you feel most comfortable with. Even then the chances of your film making it to a video release is about .03%. Even slimmer for a theatrical release. It's a difficult business. For that matter you should really consider whether dropping big bucks on film school is the right choice as well. But that's a subject for a film board and not here.
But remember, computers are just tools to get a job done. You're not going to make better art on a mac then you will on a PC. It's all just a matter of your own personal still.
Smart filmmakers and editors that have been around the block a few times will tell it to you like this
"Do you think the audience can tell what you cut the film with?" The answer is of course "no". So you use the tool that you prefer.
I say use what you already have and start shooting and editing films. I started when I was 13 and I'm now 26. Back then we didn't even edit with computers at all. Everything was done in camera or tape to tape or by cutting film prints with razor blades and scotch tape.
It you find that what you are using is limiting to you then switch to a mac, but keep your PC. Or buy a mac to do certain things and use your PC to do other things. After all they are just tools and sometimes you need to use both to get a project done.
The point is keep an open mind. You already have a powerful enough PC to edit feature films in real time and master DVDs You just need the right software like Vegas 5 or Premiere Pro.
now, i'm really torn, you say Avid is the industry standard but others are saying FCP is. which is it?!
I'm afraid I can't comment directly on Avid vs. FCP, but isn't an HD Avid setup well out of your price range? Making your question a bit of a moot point.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that FCP is a poor solution.
i think i'll get the mac mini, connect it to the monitor i have now, and just familarize myself with OS X and learn as much stuff as i can about macs before i go to film school. i'm only 15, so i'll only be using iMovie anyway. maybe something like the 1.25ghz G4processor, 512 megs of ram, and an 80GB HDD, sounds good, should be about $650 i guess.
As much as I like the mac mini... i'm afraid it will be a dissappointment to lots of people... people expect too much of it.
Hey, don't put the guy off so much. I've just finished editing my brother's wedding video using iMovie and creating a DVD with iDVD on a 500 MHz PB G4, the Mac mini will be plenty fast enough to get someone going.
Like others in this thread have alluded to: extra computer power won't make you a better artist. There's nothing a Mac mini can't do in iMovie that a Dual G5 can, it'll just take a bit longer.
Hey, don't put the guy off so much. I've just finished editing my brother's wedding video using iMovie and creating a DVD with iDVD on a 500 MHz PB G4, the Mac mini will be plenty fast enough to get someone going.
Like others in this thread have alluded to: extra computer power won't make you a better artist. There's nothing a Mac mini can't do in iMovie that a Dual G5 can, it'll just take a bit longer.
I have to be like the greatest osx fan ever... BUT
you have to be realistic... todays powerbooks are overpriced for what they
are capable off... they are not that fast..
Everybody that is tempting to go to the mac side is doing that because they've seen and heard so many big things...
The cheapest mac mini with 32MB videomem, 256mb ram, will be dissappointing to really work on... While it is cheap for apple, it is still expensive
Comments
Originally posted by lewd0006
Haha.. a good XP workstation is just as stable as OS X, it's really just a difference in features and ease of use.
Are you sure? I can't ever remember of any widespread form of virus/worm/spyware etc. on the Macintosh platform.
Anyway, back on the original topic:
Forget about everyone's advice about buying a Powermac. You are 15, right? It's a few more years before you go to film school. Even the fastest Powermac available today is going to be too slow for the high-quality, high-definition, real-time effects that will be required at your film school. Might as well start saving so you can have that machine when you actually attend the school.
In the meantime, you probably want to play around with current DV cameras. Standard definition video does not require a lot of computational power nor does it require a whole lot of money (which is good since you seem to be on a budget.)
An iMac or even the Mac mini will do the job. A 3CCD DV camcorder and FCP is the equivalent of Beta SP and old Media 100s (These used to be broadcast quality stuff about 10 years ago. You will learn about those semi-ancient technologies in school.)
If you still have money, get some lighting and audio equipment. There are so many ways to use lighting and the various types of microphones. It is an art in itself. Filming (videotaping) is more than just a camera and a editing suite.
BTW, whatever you get, don't skimp on RAM and Hard drive space.
Originally posted by lewd0006
The only time film students will be working with FCP is when they're editing their first video projects before advancing into 16mm film.
You are so wrong. He's fifteen years old. By the time he's old enough to be doing any serious work, FCP will have progressed -- both in terms of functionality and market share.
Currently Avid is the standard, but at least here in LA, FCP is becoming more common every day. For you to discourage someone from learning FCP for the reasons you stated is bad advice.
Originally posted by wilco
...
Currently Avid is the standard, but at least here in LA, FCP is becoming more common every day.
Quote:
Originally posted by lewd0006
The only time film students will be working with FCP is when they're editing their first video projects before advancing into 16mm film.
For you to discourage someone from learning FCP for the reasons you stated is bad advice.
I didn't get that argument either.
Originally posted by admactanium
actually, while film students are currently using 16mm, i think it's only a matter of time before they convert to video completely. a few friends of mine have taken directing classes at ucla and usc and they're starting to use video. i work in the a related field to the film industry and i think the hd video wave is just starting. i think fcp will have a good head-start in that arena since so many people can learn it and use it for hd at a relatively cheap price compared to avids.
ok, noooow.
Originally posted by wilco
You are so wrong. He's fifteen years old. By the time he's old enough to be doing any serious work, FCP will have progressed -- both in terms of functionality and market share.
Currently Avid is the standard, but at least here in LA, FCP is becoming more common every day. For you to discourage someone from learning FCP for the reasons you stated is bad advice.
WOW people... you're REALLY showing your knowledge now. How was I discouraging this kid from not using FCP?? I use BOTH programs and I PREFER FCP. I was just giving him a heads up on the industry standard.. because in a lot of fields, I seriously doubt Avid is going away before the kid gets into film school. I do agree that 16mm might eventuaally be replaced by video however.. it seems a lot of film schools have been able to cut costs effectively this way with little tradeoff. Also.. there IS a big difference in INDIE filmmaking, and working for a studio editing films. If he really wants to take the Indie route, any program might do fine.. even Vegas is a great choice for PC users. But FCP will never become the standard in big time editing suites.. show me an FCP machine that can do what a high-end Avid accelerated machine can do. Discouraging the kid? I'm just giving him ALL the facts.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
Are you sure? I can't ever remember of any widespread form of virus/worm/spyware etc. on the Macintosh platform.
Sure.. just don't connect your Xp (PRO) workstation to the internet
Seriously, I hate windows, but it DOES do a lot of things faster. Don't hate me just because I defend it. I own 3 macs and my dell sits idly in the corner of my house collecting dust for a reason.. i'm on your side! Geesh.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
ok, noooow.
Originally posted by admactanium
No, i've intented to express: noooow ...i've got the argument.
i know almost every editor i've worked with is a pretty big mac fanatic, so the desire to go to fcp is there if they can only fix a few of the things that they find deficient compared to avids. device control in fcp was supposedly very subpar compared to avid.
either way, fcp is an easier program to get into because the price of entry is lower. i don't think the app itself is as important as the technique and sense of rhythm, which can be learned in either program. consider that still a large percentage of avid editors used to cut physical film. all of them i've asked about the change to digital said it's not a matter of the tools, it's a matter of the technique.
in any case, he'd have to start as an editor's assist at any edit house so he'd have time to learn the avid system and apply the knowledge that he's learned from fcp.
I would suggest getting a refurbished/used powermac and using your old monitor until you can afford a new one. With the price of LCDs dropping, you might even have one in your future as a present from your parents.
Since you are interested in video editing, I think a powermac is the way to go. You'll need storage and RAM in order to work with video without everything getting very unresponsive.
email + web browsing + school work == mac mini
email + web browsing + school work + video editing == powermac
A powermac will keep you satisfied through at least the end of highschool. A mac mini will be slow from the start for video editing.
At the very least, an iMac would allow you to upgrade ram later on. The iMac also has a quicker and standard size hard drive instead of one designed for a laptop.
apple.com sells refurbished iMacs:
iMac G5 1.8GHz/ 256MB/ 80GB/ SuperDrive/ 56K/ 17-inch - Apple Certified for $1299 (free shipping)
Originally posted by dfiler
email + web browsing + school work == mac mini
email + web browsing + school work + video editing == powermac
apple.com sells refurbished iMacs:
iMac G5 1.8GHz/ 256MB/ 80GB/ SuperDrive/ 56K/ 17-inch - Apple Certified for $1299 (free shipping)
I'd go with a 20 inch iMac over the Powermac unless you have a good monitor. The LCD screen on the iMac is impressive, large and the whole thing has a smaller footprint, easier to transport.
I just finished editing a feature film on a PC with Windows XP and Vegas 5. I never had a single problem with it and my hardware was half as powerful as yours.
People will try to tell you that FCP is the industry standard. It's not. Avid is. It's making a lot of headway as the second most used NLE in the industry but who cares. Unless you get a job as an editor in the industry that doesn't really matter. Because you'll probably edit your own film so you should pick and use what you feel most comfortable with. Even then the chances of your film making it to a video release is about .03%. Even slimmer for a theatrical release. It's a difficult business. For that matter you should really consider whether dropping big bucks on film school is the right choice as well. But that's a subject for a film board and not here.
But remember, computers are just tools to get a job done. You're not going to make better art on a mac then you will on a PC. It's all just a matter of your own personal still.
Smart filmmakers and editors that have been around the block a few times will tell it to you like this
"Do you think the audience can tell what you cut the film with?" The answer is of course "no". So you use the tool that you prefer.
I say use what you already have and start shooting and editing films. I started when I was 13 and I'm now 26. Back then we didn't even edit with computers at all. Everything was done in camera or tape to tape or by cutting film prints with razor blades and scotch tape.
It you find that what you are using is limiting to you then switch to a mac, but keep your PC. Or buy a mac to do certain things and use your PC to do other things. After all they are just tools and sometimes you need to use both to get a project done.
The point is keep an open mind. You already have a powerful enough PC to edit feature films in real time and master DVDs You just need the right software like Vegas 5 or Premiere Pro.
Originally posted by Adam_89
now, i'm really torn, you say Avid is the industry standard but others are saying FCP is. which is it?!
I'm afraid I can't comment directly on Avid vs. FCP, but isn't an HD Avid setup well out of your price range? Making your question a bit of a moot point.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that FCP is a poor solution.
thanks for your help guys.
As much as I like the mac mini... i'm affraid it will be a dissappointment to lots of people... people expect too much of it.
To the topic starter:
Have a look at the latest keynote (apple.com -> quicktime -> what's on -> apple events -> ..)
Save some extra money... and get a G5.
Ofcouse, if you can't wait.. get such a higher end mac mini... it's actually better than my powerbook and i do _everything_ on it
But now I want a G5 (and lots of money for a cinema display :P)
Originally posted by hdcool
Yo,
As much as I like the mac mini... i'm afraid it will be a dissappointment to lots of people... people expect too much of it.
Hey, don't put the guy off so much. I've just finished editing my brother's wedding video using iMovie and creating a DVD with iDVD on a 500 MHz PB G4, the Mac mini will be plenty fast enough to get someone going.
Like others in this thread have alluded to: extra computer power won't make you a better artist. There's nothing a Mac mini can't do in iMovie that a Dual G5 can, it'll just take a bit longer.
Originally posted by Mr. H
Hey, don't put the guy off so much. I've just finished editing my brother's wedding video using iMovie and creating a DVD with iDVD on a 500 MHz PB G4, the Mac mini will be plenty fast enough to get someone going.
Like others in this thread have alluded to: extra computer power won't make you a better artist. There's nothing a Mac mini can't do in iMovie that a Dual G5 can, it'll just take a bit longer.
I have to be like the greatest osx fan ever... BUT
you have to be realistic... todays powerbooks are overpriced for what they
are capable off... they are not that fast..
Everybody that is tempting to go to the mac side is doing that because they've seen and heard so many big things...
The cheapest mac mini with 32MB videomem, 256mb ram, will be dissappointing to really work on... While it is cheap for apple, it is still expensive