Apple and USB2

res · February 6, 2003 3:46AM

My new ink jet printer uses USB2, and the digital camera I'm probably going to get, the sony DSC-F717, uses USB2 -- but all of the new Macs uses old USB1.

Is there any chance that Apple will get on the bandwagon and give us USB2 sometime soon, or do you think that they will keep it off their computers for the foreseeable future?

barto · February 6, 2003 4:17AM

The issue at Apple is this: Why should we implement USB2?

Apple supports FireWire. Keeping FireWire as THE high speed interface on Macs will increase (or result in a slower decrease) FireWire support.

Barto

serrano · February 6, 2003 4:42AM

Well, the protocols are backwards compatible and I don't really think you're going to feel a speed hit on a digital camera or printer. The towers can take usb2 pci cards.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

I wish that they would have included it some time ago. FW800 and all that.

fran441 · February 6, 2003 8:22AM

Most people that use Firewire 400 aren't going to need USB 2 as well. People who use Firewire 800 really shouldn't need USB 2 either.

But if you are someone that really needs USB 2, PowerBook owners and Power Mac owners can buy either a PCMCIA card or PCI card to add 2-4 ports.

hmurchison · February 6, 2003 8:55AM

Apple doesn't even support FW800 correctly so USB2 is a ways off.

I agree though. USB2 Printers and especially Digicams are overkill but good nonetheless because it keeps the whole bus standarized on one speed level.

I don't expect to see Apple move to USB2 until the last moment.

gizzmonic · February 6, 2003 9:50AM

I don't think they want to see the G4 suffer the performance hit, since USB2 is heavy on the CPU. Firewire has its own controller chip that more or less takes the load of the CPU (AFAIK) so it is the smarter choice for Apple right now.

Of course, there's no reason why they couldn't have both. Maybe we will see USB2 once the G5 hits.

Question to tech people: is it true that if you plug a USB1.1 device and a USB2 device on the same bus, the USB2 device will drop to USB1.1 speeds?

stoo · February 6, 2003 10:30AM

This sounds very similar to the good old IDE/SCSI comparisons of the 80s/90s: Firewire, supported by Apple, more complex but CPU load reducing controller, and USB, with it's simpler and more CPU time costly master/slave setup.

Using a USB 1 device on a USB 2 port does indeed drop the speed to USB 1. USB 2 mice anyone?

o and a · February 6, 2003 10:47AM

I understand why people would need usb2 however firewire is superior.

Nonetheless your printer isn't gonna be any faster or slower using usb1.1 vs 2 same as your camera.

res · February 6, 2003 12:28PM

[quote]Originally posted by O and A:

I understand why people would need usb2 however firewire is superior.

Nonetheless your printer isn't gonna be any faster or slower using usb1.1 vs 2 same as your camera.<hr></blockquote>

The printer makes sense, because the limit is engine speed, but I thought that pictures would download from the camera a lot faster using USB2 instead of USB1.1, am I wrong?

hamfistedbunvendor · February 6, 2003 12:39PM

If you have a tower, why not just buy a USB2 card for your mac?, oh hang on buying a PC with it would probably be cheaper!!!

[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: hamfistedbunvendor ]

ed m. · February 6, 2003 1:09PM

<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0302/04.pcmag.php"; target="_blank">PC Magazine Compares FireWire400 and USB2</a>

--

Ed M.

flow flow · February 6, 2003 2:31PM

[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

Apple doesn't even support FW800 correctly so USB2 is a ways off.

<hr></blockquote>

Ummm, how do you "correctly" support FW800? You mean on all their systems, or they don't follow the standard.

USB and Firewire should continue to coexist, as both have strenghts and weaknesses. Until you see FW800 on all Macs, you probably won't see USB2. The nice thing is that each are backwards compatible, so it's not like they'll ever be obsolete. Just maybe a little slower.

powerdoc · February 6, 2003 3:19PM

[quote]Originally posted by Gizzmonic:



Question to tech people: is it true that if you plug a USB1.1 device and a USB2 device on the same bus, the USB2 device will drop to USB1.1 speeds?<hr></blockquote>

Not exactly, but if drop down the level of performance of the USB 2 device dramatically.

You will notice also that many so called USB 2 printers like the HP 5500 are not really USB 2 : it's called Full speed USB 2 and they have not the bandwitch of an USB 2 device. Lexmark has a real USB 2 printer, at the contrary.

USB 2 is not really in competition with firewire. Some macs have USB 2 connector like my G4 533 (i have a PCI USB 2 card in it

: unfortunately mac OS did not support it and recocnize it only at USB 1,1

).

Firewire is now more popular than ever, and many PC mobo have both USB2 and Firewire connector. It won't kill the standart if Apple use USB 2 for his own mobos.

res · February 6, 2003 4:13PM

[quote]Originally posted by Ed M.:

<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0302/04.pcmag.php"; target="_blank">PC Magazine Compares FireWire400 and USB2</a>

--

Ed M.<hr></blockquote>

I agree that firewire is better then usb2, but the problems is that digital camera makers are choosing to use usb2. Even Sony is using usb2 instead of firewire.

japh · February 6, 2003 4:18PM

Maybe Apple's waiting not only for a more significant PowerMac revision, but also for a good point to switch their keyboard and mouse to USB2?

After all, you don't want the keyboard, which has two USB ports of its own, slowing everything else down.

vvmp · February 6, 2003 5:05PM

Perhaps Apple feels the need to produce their own digital still camera and use a firewire port since everyone else chooses to stick to USB. FIrewire is only popular on Digital video camcorders.

beigeuser · February 6, 2003 5:23PM

[quote]Originally posted by serrano:

I don't really think you're going to feel a speed hit on a digital camera or printer.<hr></blockquote>

I have a Epson printer sold only in Japan, the PM-970C. It's a 2880x2880 dpi 7-color printer and it prints a photo quality letter sized page in under a minute. It connects by Firewire, USB2, or USB. The printer is noticeably slower when connected by USB. (So obviously I use firewire.) Unfortunately, my 500MHz Beige G3 under Jaguar is not able to render the print images fast enough so the printer has to wait for my computer. Sometimes my computer takes too long that my printer stops the job. I have to go back to OS 9 to complete it.

In conclusion, USB (and my computer) is too slow for modern printers. Epson is the only manufacturer (in my knowledge) that makes firewire printers. Everyone else uses USB2. Apple has to convince more companies to embrace firewire or Apple has to put USB2 ports on their computers.

[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: BeigeUser ]

stoo · February 6, 2003 6:02PM

PM 970?!!! What does the "C" mean? Ooops, a printer. Ahem....

Apple and USB2

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