I am not an Apple employee, but I am an independent mac consultant. I have lived in SF since 1993 and used Macs one year longer than that. And I totally agree with the Silencio and Warfang. That place was the worst. I would send people to even a nightmare like Fry's WAAAAAAAAAAY before I ever thought of sending them to such incompetance, arrogance and occasional sheer ignorance as was displayed nearly every time I went to MacAdam. The prices were high, the displays were a model of how not to show product and it was dark and dinge. So layoff, you out of towners. I wouldn't come up to NY and tell you you didn't know what you were talking about if you said you had such a lame store like that place was! ;0)
Speaking of Tekserve and J & R, night and day experiences. Tekserve employees are Apple enthusiasts, J & R and salepeople who happen to be selling Macs. I was in J & R tody with a friend who I was trying to ge to buy a Mac. The salesman was useless, and worse, although he couldn't answer our question, wasn't willing (or worse, unable) to surf the web for an answer. I couldn' get over to the Apple store fast enough, where at least you can surf for the net (J & R and other retailers like Best Buy lock you out of competitors websites, i.e any website other than their own). There was a time when J & R had a decent Apple dept--never great, but at least respectable. OTOH at least they're still selling Macs; AFAIK they're the only financial district Apple retail presence.
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
I am not an Apple employee, but I am an independent mac consultant. I have lived in SF since 1993 and used Macs one year longer than that. And I totally agree with the Silencio and Warfang. That place was the worst. I would send people to even a nightmare like Fry's WAAAAAAAAAAY before I ever thought of sending them to such incompetance, arrogance and occasional sheer ignorance as was displayed nearly every time I went to MacAdam. The prices were high, the displays were a model of how not to show product and it was dark and dinge. So layoff, you out of towners. I wouldn't come up to NY and tell you you didn't know what you were talking about if you said you had such a lame store like that place was! ;0)
1. the NY dude was just saying that he was thankful that his dealer was good, and was suprised that in SF you'd have a crappy apple dealer... coz' i mean, for god's sake, apple HQ is a 45min drive a way
2. i was in SF 2000-2002, bought and iBook, iBook RAM, repaired iBook twice, and bought a TiBook all from..... *ding ding ding* COMPUSA...! lol it wasn't the greatest experience but overall i think it was alright, and the dude that repaired my iBook twice (because the firewire port got fried when you plugged into my work Dell PCI card firewire slot) was a decent guy.
3. i had a colleague and friend that worked at ComputerWare, if I am not mistaken, and he came and joined the company i was working at because that was when ComputerWare went belly up.
4. it just blows my f8cking mind that you can have independent computer dealers in the heart of SAN FRANCISCO for god's sake, tech central by most accounts, just not cut it... If those accounts about MacAdam are mostly true (i never heard about it when i was in SF) then it is true that they have just not been able to live up to what is expected of 21st century Apple customers. Umm... i don't know what happened to ComputerWare...
5. i left SF in Jan 2003, so never got a chance to checkout the AppleStore... Hint: It wasn't even built yet...!!
6. i am so so so thankful that i didn't choose to build my own PC (in 2000 when i first went to SF) from parts i was going to buy at Fry's... ... Just gota a Dell Dimension through the web/phone... It was decent, except when it was delivered they forgot to connect the part where the Powersupply thingy connects to the motherboard now for the life of me i cannot remember who i sold my Dell to... as i was buying my iBook and PowerBook....
7. had to use a PC most of the time for work-from-home because of the stupid VPN rubbish me company was using that was a headache to log into with a Mac at the time
8. thanks for listening..! enjoy SF Bay Area, home of Steve, Pixar, Apple, Lucas and .... ah well, it was a good time for a fan boy like me...
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
i guess my US and SF experience in 2000-2002 showed me an insight into this whole boom-and-bust thing that goes on with the US economy. a glitzy street one day, deserted the next... although with SOMA it sounds like it has been like way way way cleaned up from what it used to be...
When I was in SF ten years ago, I bought my first PowerBook (PowerBook 150) an MacAdam. Even ten years ago, the store looked as Walfang, Silencio et al describe it. Therefore, it's interesting that it could stay in business for well over 15 years...
Speaking of Tekserve and J & R, night and day experiences. Tekserve employees are Apple enthusiasts, J & R and salepeople who happen to be selling Macs. I was in J & R tody with a friend who I was trying to ge to buy a Mac. The salesman was useless, and worse, although he couldn't answer our question, wasn't willing (or worse, unable) to surf the web for an answer.
When I go to J & R, I know exactly what I want, slap down my plastic and walk out. That is J & R's core strength, its prices, and their core market, cheapskates. Their salesmen are just like every other salesman in NYC, unless you're a celebrity don't even expect competent treatment. There are a couple of J&Rers that you could say are enthusiasts, but it boils down to the fact that Rachelle Friedman and whoever's the co-owner of the moment only tolerate Macs because they mean sales.
Quote:
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
Oh, like NovaWorks and MPC? Their own incompetence killed them. Novaworks didn't pay people enough, MPC had a great training department but didn't want to go any further than they did because they were part of a printing, not a computer company. They got killed because of the tech bubble burst and they didn't have any long range goals.
I gave up on macadam years ago (yeah, long before the Apple Store). If you were persistent enough, you might get one of their employees to look up from their latest geek exploits on one of the macs in the store (I think they were all reserved for employees or club members).
I couldn't believe that Tom Santos was actually blaming Apple for his store's problems... macadam has been notorious for years as a bad experience. I actually preferred the CompUSA store within a store, as bad as that was.
They never even had a website that I could ever find (I might have ordered something if I didn't have to go there).
While attending Macworld San Francisco in 2001, my wife and I stopped by MACadam to pick up an AC adapter for her iBook and an AirPort card. Both were in stock, and both were sold at above retail price, but we needed them before the Expo began.
It would have been cheaper to return these items after the Expo, take a 15% hit on the restock fee, and buy them online after returning home.
With service like that, I'm not surprised Mac users chose Apple's own store over MACadam. Customer service counts for a lot.
Welcome to AI, all. Sorry for the initially chilly reception. Nice to see you too, Dan!
I can believe the stories about MACadam, although I've never been there. I have been in enough Mac dealers exactly like it to know the type.
Tycho and Gabe can go on as much as they want about how they just aren't pretty enough to go into an Apple Store, but I'll take pretty over snooty. Needless to say, I'll take competent over either, but the choices out where I am are slim indeed.
I've never been to MacAdam, but I know the type. These are the kind of resellers that Apple NEEDS to have go out of business.
It's the standard-issue 80's-era Mac snob retailer. You know the one where there is NOTHING in stock, the prices are all too high, and it just generally has the look and feel of a computer garage sale.
On top of that, all the employees are 39 year old teenagers that make it their sole mission to be as condescending as possible. These places are destroying Apple's brand, and I hope they go out of business as soon as possible.
..... I actually preferred the CompUSA store within a store, as bad as that was......
peace. love. san francisco
peace and love too, bro. CompUSA was my main store, especially i lived around Nob Hill/ Lower Nob Hill 2000-2002. not great, but at least there was *some* sort of dedicated Apple area and there were 1 or 2 compUSA people that knew Apple stuff. and there was 1 dude that fixed me iBook three times quite well (each time the failure was not his fault,was the stupid PC firewire card)
Those of you, like me, in San Francisco should patronize Central Computer (Howard between 4th and 5th, near Moscone Center). They're the best overall computer store in San Francisco, striking a pretty good balance between selection, price, and service. Historically they have not really acknowledged Apple's existence, and that was not a problem for me when I'm looking for parts that are most often cross-platform anyway. However, they have slowly started carrying items more specific to the Mac: they stocked Airport Base Stations for a while, started carrying MacAlly products, and now sell iPods and iPod minis. A little positive reinforcement may inspire them to expand their offerings further.
CompUSA SF is aiiiight. Their Apple store-within-a-store got moved more towards the front of the store, so visibility is better than before. But I still don't like shopping there very much.
M.A.C. in Berkeley is still around and has a great reputation for hardware repairs. Not sure if they sell systems, software, or accessories, or if they're just a repair shop. I think The Total Mac is still on Geary Street, but I've never been in.
For actual Apple Stores, I prefer the smaller stores at Stonestown, Emeryville, or Burlingame.
I kind of summarized earlier what happened to ComputerWare: they went out of business, then Elite Computers bought the rights to the business and re-opened most of the stores again. Since they didn't re-open the San Francisco store, I never made it into one of the new "ComputerWare by Elite Computer" stores. Therefore, I cannot vouch for how good or bad they were. The primary plaintiff in the resellers vs. Apple lawsuit is Mr. Armas, the guy who owns Elite Computer.
I want to apoligize too, since I started it. It just seemed a little pat. No intention of making any one unwelcome, just looking for the facts, which would come out through further discussion.
Now the independent reseller in San Francisco that I do miss was ComputerWare. They were right in the Financial District, had a good service department and a clean, professional environment to browse and purchase Mac-related items. Elite Computers, which bought out ComputerWare (but failed to re-open the San Francisco location) is also part of the dealer lawsuit against Apple. [/B][/QUOTE]
Elite Computers did not buy out ComputerWare, ComputerWare's owner decided to close down the stores because he wanted to get out of the retail business and focus on Business-To-Business sales with another company he owned called Amherst Technology. Elite purchased the ComputerWare name and the ComputerWare mail list that is all, they had nothing to do with ComputerWare (though they did hire some of the old ComputerWare employees).
If you enjoyed ComputerWare you might want to take a trip to San Rafael and visit the Marin Mac Shop which was opened a little over a year ago in the old ComputerWare location. It is owned and operated by some of the same folks that brought you the old (original ComputerWare) and are a good place to shop.
I want to apoligize too, since I started it. It just seemed a little pat. No intention of making any one unwelcome, just looking for the facts, which would come out through further discussion.
Welcome to AI.
N2NRN
east coast Vs west coast is like, so 90's... so, just because this thread is SF-centric, doesn't mean n2 can't contribute...
so, N2NRN, maybe you can name those NY independent apple dealers which you recommend and have had good experiences at?? 8)
I believe that good business are the ones people rather go get theirs stuff to, I also believe that third parties can come up with a retail concept even better than apple's, but their failing to do so is not apple's fault, is theirs.
Wow. The thread that won't die. But lots of good discussion so far after the initial flames died down. I'll take it.
Not to defend Apple's actions, which may very well be proven in court to be illegal or breach of contract or whatever, but let's look at the bigger picture. Who's the only other major computer manufacturer that is consistently profitable? Dell. How many retail partners does Dell have? Oh, right: they cut out the middleman and pass the savings on to you -- or keep it for themselves and apply it to the bottom line. All other manufacturers cede a chunk of their margins to distributors and resellers, and so get hurt more when price pressure gets stronger.
Yes, Apple is out to grab a bigger piece of the retail pie. I don't think they want to drive all third party Mac resellers or service shops out of business; the ones that provided value added services that Apple can't are the ones that are still doing well, but they already cater to those who are already Macintosh users. The simple fact is that existing Mac resellers weren't doing some of the things that Apple needs out of a retail presence, like serving as a convenient and attractive showcase for newcomers to the platform. If someone was interested in switching but their first stop to investigate the Mac in person was a store like MACadam, their impression of the platform would be shot right then and there.
Apple's retail strategy has been brilliant in this regard: where Gateway would build nondescript stores in minimalls that you had to make an effort to get to (and who would bother?), Apple has located their stores in pretty high-traffic locations in upscale malls and urban centers that are much more inviting for the casual shopper to wander into. Every Apple Store I've walked by over the past year and a half has been bustling with activity in a way I've never seen at any ComputerWare I've gone into. (Okay, I'm sure the iPod has a lot to do with that, but still.) Whatever side of the debate you're on, you have to admit that the success of Apple's retail stores is a tremendous accomplishment.
Comments
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
Originally posted by onetrickposter
I am not an Apple employee, but I am an independent mac consultant. I have lived in SF since 1993 and used Macs one year longer than that. And I totally agree with the Silencio and Warfang. That place was the worst. I would send people to even a nightmare like Fry's WAAAAAAAAAAY before I ever thought of sending them to such incompetance, arrogance and occasional sheer ignorance as was displayed nearly every time I went to MacAdam. The prices were high, the displays were a model of how not to show product and it was dark and dinge. So layoff, you out of towners. I wouldn't come up to NY and tell you you didn't know what you were talking about if you said you had such a lame store like that place was! ;0)
1. the NY dude was just saying that he was thankful that his dealer was good, and was suprised that in SF you'd have a crappy apple dealer... coz' i mean, for god's sake, apple HQ is a 45min drive a way
2. i was in SF 2000-2002, bought and iBook, iBook RAM, repaired iBook twice, and bought a TiBook all from..... *ding ding ding* COMPUSA...! lol
3. i had a colleague and friend that worked at ComputerWare, if I am not mistaken, and he came and joined the company i was working at because that was when ComputerWare went belly up.
4. it just blows my f8cking mind that you can have independent computer dealers in the heart of SAN FRANCISCO for god's sake, tech central by most accounts, just not cut it... If those accounts about MacAdam are mostly true (i never heard about it when i was in SF) then it is true that they have just not been able to live up to what is expected of 21st century Apple customers. Umm... i don't know what happened to ComputerWare...
5. i left SF in Jan 2003, so never got a chance to checkout the AppleStore... Hint: It wasn't even built yet...!!
6. i am so so so thankful that i didn't choose to build my own PC (in 2000 when i first went to SF) from parts i was going to buy at Fry's...
7. had to use a PC most of the time for work-from-home because of the stupid VPN rubbish me company was using that was a headache to log into with a Mac at the time
8. thanks for listening..! enjoy SF Bay Area, home of Steve, Pixar, Apple, Lucas and .... ah well, it was a good time for a fan boy like me...
Originally posted by Ptrash
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
i guess my US and SF experience in 2000-2002 showed me an insight into this whole boom-and-bust thing that goes on with the US economy. a glitzy street one day, deserted the next... although with SOMA it sounds like it has been like way way way cleaned up from what it used to be...
Originally posted by Ptrash
Speaking of Tekserve and J & R, night and day experiences. Tekserve employees are Apple enthusiasts, J & R and salepeople who happen to be selling Macs. I was in J & R tody with a friend who I was trying to ge to buy a Mac. The salesman was useless, and worse, although he couldn't answer our question, wasn't willing (or worse, unable) to surf the web for an answer.
When I go to J & R, I know exactly what I want, slap down my plastic and walk out. That is J & R's core strength, its prices, and their core market, cheapskates.
I remember a time when they're were numerous Apple retailers in Flatiron and vicinity; Apple sales policies and the Macs lack of competitiveness in the early 90s killed them all one by one.
Oh, like NovaWorks and MPC? Their own incompetence killed them. Novaworks didn't pay people enough, MPC had a great training department but didn't want to go any further than they did because they were part of a printing, not a computer company. They got killed because of the tech bubble burst and they didn't have any long range goals.
I gave up on macadam years ago (yeah, long before the Apple Store). If you were persistent enough, you might get one of their employees to look up from their latest geek exploits on one of the macs in the store (I think they were all reserved for employees or club members).
I couldn't believe that Tom Santos was actually blaming Apple for his store's problems... macadam has been notorious for years as a bad experience. I actually preferred the CompUSA store within a store, as bad as that was.
They never even had a website that I could ever find (I might have ordered something if I didn't have to go there).
peace. love. san francisco
It would have been cheaper to return these items after the Expo, take a 15% hit on the restock fee, and buy them online after returning home.
With service like that, I'm not surprised Mac users chose Apple's own store over MACadam. Customer service counts for a lot.
Dan Knight, publisher, LowEndMac.com
I can believe the stories about MACadam, although I've never been there. I have been in enough Mac dealers exactly like it to know the type.
Tycho and Gabe can go on as much as they want about how they just aren't pretty enough to go into an Apple Store, but I'll take pretty over snooty. Needless to say, I'll take competent over either, but the choices out where I am are slim indeed.
It's the standard-issue 80's-era Mac snob retailer. You know the one where there is NOTHING in stock, the prices are all too high, and it just generally has the look and feel of a computer garage sale.
On top of that, all the employees are 39 year old teenagers that make it their sole mission to be as condescending as possible. These places are destroying Apple's brand, and I hope they go out of business as soon as possible.
Originally posted by mr.mango
Hey, I'll gladly jump on this dogpile...
..... I actually preferred the CompUSA store within a store, as bad as that was......
peace. love. san francisco
peace and love too, bro. CompUSA was my main store, especially i lived around Nob Hill/ Lower Nob Hill 2000-2002. not great, but at least there was *some* sort of dedicated Apple area and there were 1 or 2 compUSA people that knew Apple stuff. and there was 1 dude that fixed me iBook three times quite well (each time the failure was not his fault,was the stupid PC firewire card)
CompUSA SF is aiiiight. Their Apple store-within-a-store got moved more towards the front of the store, so visibility is better than before. But I still don't like shopping there very much.
M.A.C. in Berkeley is still around and has a great reputation for hardware repairs. Not sure if they sell systems, software, or accessories, or if they're just a repair shop. I think The Total Mac is still on Geary Street, but I've never been in.
For actual Apple Stores, I prefer the smaller stores at Stonestown, Emeryville, or Burlingame.
I kind of summarized earlier what happened to ComputerWare: they went out of business, then Elite Computers bought the rights to the business and re-opened most of the stores again. Since they didn't re-open the San Francisco store, I never made it into one of the new "ComputerWare by Elite Computer" stores. Therefore, I cannot vouch for how good or bad they were. The primary plaintiff in the resellers vs. Apple lawsuit is Mr. Armas, the guy who owns Elite Computer.
Welcome to AI.
N2NRN
Elite Computers did not buy out ComputerWare, ComputerWare's owner decided to close down the stores because he wanted to get out of the retail business and focus on Business-To-Business sales with another company he owned called Amherst Technology. Elite purchased the ComputerWare name and the ComputerWare mail list that is all, they had nothing to do with ComputerWare (though they did hire some of the old ComputerWare employees).
If you enjoyed ComputerWare you might want to take a trip to San Rafael and visit the Marin Mac Shop which was opened a little over a year ago in the old ComputerWare location. It is owned and operated by some of the same folks that brought you the old (original ComputerWare) and are a good place to shop.
Originally posted by n2nrn
I want to apoligize too, since I started it. It just seemed a little pat. No intention of making any one unwelcome, just looking for the facts, which would come out through further discussion.
Welcome to AI.
N2NRN
east coast Vs west coast is like, so 90's...
so, N2NRN, maybe you can name those NY independent apple dealers which you recommend and have had good experiences at?? 8)
You get more flies with syrup than with salt.
Not to defend Apple's actions, which may very well be proven in court to be illegal or breach of contract or whatever, but let's look at the bigger picture. Who's the only other major computer manufacturer that is consistently profitable? Dell. How many retail partners does Dell have? Oh, right: they cut out the middleman and pass the savings on to you -- or keep it for themselves and apply it to the bottom line. All other manufacturers cede a chunk of their margins to distributors and resellers, and so get hurt more when price pressure gets stronger.
Yes, Apple is out to grab a bigger piece of the retail pie. I don't think they want to drive all third party Mac resellers or service shops out of business; the ones that provided value added services that Apple can't are the ones that are still doing well, but they already cater to those who are already Macintosh users. The simple fact is that existing Mac resellers weren't doing some of the things that Apple needs out of a retail presence, like serving as a convenient and attractive showcase for newcomers to the platform. If someone was interested in switching but their first stop to investigate the Mac in person was a store like MACadam, their impression of the platform would be shot right then and there.
Apple's retail strategy has been brilliant in this regard: where Gateway would build nondescript stores in minimalls that you had to make an effort to get to (and who would bother?), Apple has located their stores in pretty high-traffic locations in upscale malls and urban centers that are much more inviting for the casual shopper to wander into. Every Apple Store I've walked by over the past year and a half has been bustling with activity in a way I've never seen at any ComputerWare I've gone into. (Okay, I'm sure the iPod has a lot to do with that, but still.) Whatever side of the debate you're on, you have to admit that the success of Apple's retail stores is a tremendous accomplishment.