I'm using a 64 MB GeForce 3 (in my Cube) powering a single 20" ALU display. How well do the current crop of PowerBooks handle spanning their native 1024px screen AND a 20" Cinema?
In the ends the video card isn't much a problem since I've all but given up playing FPS games on Macs. FireWire 800 would have been nice, ya know? Was it a heat problem, does FW800 cost too much? Hell if its a space problem offer a single FW800 and provide a converter, they are already doing that for the Mini-DVI to DVI.
Thats all I have to complain about really. I'm looking into getting a laptop and the current crop represent a well matured, and priced line.
come on guys.......... be happy with the current upgrade its better the nothing. The only thing i'm pissed about is the wait until I get my 17" powerbook. I ordered it though my University and they told me it will take atleast 2 week to come in. I placed this order on 1/20, thinking I would head off the initial wait. Anybody else dealing with this problem?
As the owner of both the 15" and 17" aluminum Powerbooks I have to say the displays are sorely lacking, I almost said sucks but that might be too strong. They are dim and washed out compared to the current crop of very recent notebook displays and Apples own Cinema Displays and iMac displays. I'm not speaking of the reflective type either which I don't like. I have no problem with the Powerbook display resolutions, they are comfortable but otherwise they are sub par. Sorry but that's a fact and this is coming from a Mac fan. The truth is the truth.
As the owner of both the 15" and 17" aluminum Powerbooks I have to say the displays are sorely lacking, I almost said sucks but that might be too strong. They are dim and washed out compared to the current crop of very recent notebook displays and Apples own Cinema Displays and iMac displays.
Comparisons with other notebook displays are welcome. Comparisons with desktop LCDs are unfair, because the desktop LCDs can use all the power they want for bright, even backlights, and they can be thick and heavy enough to dissipate as much heat as they need to. Notebook displays have to negotiate between brightness, heat, and power consumption, so they're never going to be quite as good.
I'm using a 64 MB GeForce 3 (in my Cube) powering a single 20" ALU display. How well do the current crop of PowerBooks handle spanning their native 1024px screen AND a 20" Cinema?
In the ends the video card isn't much a problem since I've all but given up playing FPS games on Macs. FireWire 800 would have been nice, ya know? Was it a heat problem, does FW800 cost too much? Hell if its a space problem offer a single FW800 and provide a converter, they are already doing that for the Mini-DVI to DVI.
Thats all I have to complain about really. I'm looking into getting a laptop and the current crop represent a well matured, and priced line.
I think the 15" particularly is very good value. Heck I bought the last gen basic 15" and that was already an amazing machine. Now they just made it a tad better specced in every way and dropped the price. Processor speed is not competetive with Wintel laptops but I don't particularly care about that.
The 12" PB is the bastard child of the lineup. IMO they should stop crippling the iBook's graphics (add spanning and DVI - this would level the playing field with Wintels), and they should instead distinguish the PB from it by adding features to the PB. It has the Superdrive, more memory, more HD, faster processor. Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good. None of these really cost a lot. They just need to accept it's not enough to polish up the iBook a bit and call it a PB. It needs its own motherboard design, if not from the ground up, at least more than now.
I think the 15" particularly is very good value. Heck I bought the last gen basic 15" and that was already an amazing machine. Now they just made it a tad better specced in every way and dropped the price. Processor speed is not competetive with Wintel laptops but I don't particularly care about that.
The 12" PB is the bastard child of the lineup. IMO they should stop crippling the iBook's graphics (add spanning and DVI - this would level the playing field with Wintels), and they should instead distinguish the PB from it by adding features to the PB. It has the Superdrive, more memory, more HD, faster processor. Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good. None of these really cost a lot. They just need to accept it's not enough to polish up the iBook a bit and call it a PB. It needs its own motherboard design, if not from the ground up, at least more than now.
Differences between PB 12" and 12" iBook:
1. Faster hard drives (5400 compared to 4200 RPM)
2. Faster memory architecture (333 compared to 266Mhz DDR)
3. Faster processor (1.5 compared to 1.2 Ghz G4)
b Faster front side bus (167 compared to 133Mhz)
4. Faster level 2 cache (1.5 compared to 1.2 Ghz)
5. Twice the amount of dedicated video memory (64 compared
to 32MB)
6. Programmable GPU (5200 compared to 9200)
7. Faster Bluetooth (2.0 compared to 1.1)
8. Weighs less (4.6 compared to 4.9 lbs) and is smaller in
dimension (93.74 compared to 101.92 inches of surface
11. 8x Dual Format capable Superdrive--iBook has no such
option.
That is the list off of the top of my head when comparing the two 12" models as they stand. That of course doesn't take into account the "stock" configurations but simply shows the differences between the two lines. For example: the PBs now come with 512MB of ram standard and at least a 60 GB hard drive (both twice the amounts of the iBook standard config). The above list are the major abilities that the PB has over the iBook--something that even a top of the line BTOed iBook will lack over the lowest end stock PB.
Hopefully that list helps some people if they are deciding between the two--I actually agonized over the decision for weeks UNTIL they just announced these upgrades. The list was simply too big and important for me to justify an iBook. At least thats what I like to tell myself. Lol.
That list, while good and accurate, does nothing to refute my point. Apple needs to stop crippling iBook's graphics and memory ASAP. If they feel the Powerbook is not competetive if they stop crippling the iBook, they are right and the reason is they are not working hard enough to put pro level features in there. The 12" Powerbook is missing out on too many of the things that make the 15" and 17" fine computers. Apart from processor speed and the case, the 12" PB is pretty much exactly what I think the iBook should be. Not talking about base, stock model of course.
That list, while good and accurate, does nothing to refute my point. Apple needs to stop crippling iBook's graphics and memory ASAP. If they feel the Powerbook is not competetive if they stop crippling the iBook, they are right and the reason is they are not working hard enough to put pro level features in there. The 12" Powerbook is missing out on too many of the things that make the 15" and 17" fine computers. Apart from processor speed and the case, the 12" PB is pretty much exactly what I think the iBook should be. Not talking about base, stock model of course.
Just so I understand--exactly WHAT features is the 12" PB missing from the 15 and 17"? GPU, faster firewire and backlit keyboard?
I'm not so sure that they can fit all of that into the 12". I'm not saying they CAN'T but perhaps there is a reason besides pricepoint that Apple decided to not have those features in the 12". . .perhaps heat, battery life, and space concerns? Again, you bring up a semi-valid point about the crippling of the iBook--but also realize that it is a sub 1,000 dollar notebook in base form. $500 dollars LESS than a bare-bones PB. I sincerely doubt that they COULD introduce the 12" PB as it is now at $999 and make any sort of decent margin. Just my 2 cents.
Just so I understand--exactly WHAT features is the 12" PB missing from the 15 and 17"? GPU, faster firewire and backlit keyboard?
I'm not so sure that they can fit all of that into the 12". I'm not saying they CAN'T but perhaps there is a reason besides pricepoint that Apple decided to not have those features in the 12". . .perhaps heat, battery life, and space concerns?
I said precisely what I want to see on the 12" PB on the earlier post, but here it is again.
"Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good."
It's possible they currently can't fit in any substantial improvement over the FX5200 and it's therefore reasonable they hold out for the next generation of compact graphics. Dual link DVI depends on GPU engineering too. But I don't see any reason not to have FW800 and digital audio out in there. Frankly, they should pick a better screen. I like the 15":s screen, I like the iBook's screen for the price of the iBook, but a pro machine should have better than the iBook's screen. Screen was the reason I didn't originally get a 12" PB but a 15" PB. I later switched to 12" iBook, both much more agreeable machines to me than the 12" PB.
Quote:
Again, you bring up a semi-valid point about the crippling of the iBook--but also realize that it is a sub 1,000 dollar notebook in base form. $500 dollars LESS than a bare-bones PB. I sincerely doubt that they COULD introduce the 12" PB as it is now at $999 and make any sort of decent margin.
They could enable screen spanning and DVI on the iBook and I don't know if it would take any changes in hardware. Certainly it would not change the price. That's my point, not that they should change the price of the Powerbook to $1000. The fact they are not doing this IMO shows they don't trust the Powerbook is substantially different from the iBook at all.
Yeah, the 12" PowerBook has an identity crisis of sorts. If it had FireWire 800, and better screen (13" widescreen perhaps?) I wouldn't think twice. Its the price that is really selling it now.
With 768 MB of RAM I could use it at both work and home and I have access to monitors in my two key locations but I've acclimated to widescreen. Even at these prices its an investment, and yeah. All that. 24 begins, must cut post short
nope i see it now, you arent paying the extra 100 for the 512 anymore,and its only 75 to go up to over 700MB of RAM. Thats cool. When did the last PB come out the one before this?
Comments
I'm using a 64 MB GeForce 3 (in my Cube) powering a single 20" ALU display. How well do the current crop of PowerBooks handle spanning their native 1024px screen AND a 20" Cinema?
In the ends the video card isn't much a problem since I've all but given up playing FPS games on Macs. FireWire 800 would have been nice, ya know? Was it a heat problem, does FW800 cost too much? Hell if its a space problem offer a single FW800 and provide a converter, they are already doing that for the Mini-DVI to DVI.
Thats all I have to complain about really. I'm looking into getting a laptop and the current crop represent a well matured, and priced line.
Originally posted by coolmac
As the owner of both the 15" and 17" aluminum Powerbooks I have to say the displays are sorely lacking, I almost said sucks but that might be too strong. They are dim and washed out compared to the current crop of very recent notebook displays and Apples own Cinema Displays and iMac displays.
Comparisons with other notebook displays are welcome. Comparisons with desktop LCDs are unfair, because the desktop LCDs can use all the power they want for bright, even backlights, and they can be thick and heavy enough to dissipate as much heat as they need to. Notebook displays have to negotiate between brightness, heat, and power consumption, so they're never going to be quite as good.
Originally posted by IonYz
64 MB Go still in the 12
I'm using a 64 MB GeForce 3 (in my Cube) powering a single 20" ALU display. How well do the current crop of PowerBooks handle spanning their native 1024px screen AND a 20" Cinema?
In the ends the video card isn't much a problem since I've all but given up playing FPS games on Macs. FireWire 800 would have been nice, ya know? Was it a heat problem, does FW800 cost too much? Hell if its a space problem offer a single FW800 and provide a converter, they are already doing that for the Mini-DVI to DVI.
Thats all I have to complain about really. I'm looking into getting a laptop and the current crop represent a well matured, and priced line.
I think the 15" particularly is very good value. Heck I bought the last gen basic 15" and that was already an amazing machine. Now they just made it a tad better specced in every way and dropped the price. Processor speed is not competetive with Wintel laptops but I don't particularly care about that.
The 12" PB is the bastard child of the lineup. IMO they should stop crippling the iBook's graphics (add spanning and DVI - this would level the playing field with Wintels), and they should instead distinguish the PB from it by adding features to the PB. It has the Superdrive, more memory, more HD, faster processor. Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good. None of these really cost a lot. They just need to accept it's not enough to polish up the iBook a bit and call it a PB. It needs its own motherboard design, if not from the ground up, at least more than now.
Originally posted by Gon
I think the 15" particularly is very good value. Heck I bought the last gen basic 15" and that was already an amazing machine. Now they just made it a tad better specced in every way and dropped the price. Processor speed is not competetive with Wintel laptops but I don't particularly care about that.
The 12" PB is the bastard child of the lineup. IMO they should stop crippling the iBook's graphics (add spanning and DVI - this would level the playing field with Wintels), and they should instead distinguish the PB from it by adding features to the PB. It has the Superdrive, more memory, more HD, faster processor. Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good. None of these really cost a lot. They just need to accept it's not enough to polish up the iBook a bit and call it a PB. It needs its own motherboard design, if not from the ground up, at least more than now.
Differences between PB 12" and 12" iBook:
1. Faster hard drives (5400 compared to 4200 RPM)
2. Faster memory architecture (333 compared to 266Mhz DDR)
3. Faster processor (1.5 compared to 1.2 Ghz G4)
b Faster front side bus (167 compared to 133Mhz)
4. Faster level 2 cache (1.5 compared to 1.2 Ghz)
5. Twice the amount of dedicated video memory (64 compared
to 32MB)
6. Programmable GPU (5200 compared to 9200)
7. Faster Bluetooth (2.0 compared to 1.1)
8. Weighs less (4.6 compared to 4.9 lbs) and is smaller in
dimension (93.74 compared to 101.92 inches of surface
area)
9. Sudden motion sensor capabilites standard--iBook can't
be so equipped
10. Scroll mate capabilities--iBook can't have it
11. 8x Dual Format capable Superdrive--iBook has no such
option.
That is the list off of the top of my head when comparing the two 12" models as they stand. That of course doesn't take into account the "stock" configurations but simply shows the differences between the two lines. For example: the PBs now come with 512MB of ram standard and at least a 60 GB hard drive (both twice the amounts of the iBook standard config). The above list are the major abilities that the PB has over the iBook--something that even a top of the line BTOed iBook will lack over the lowest end stock PB.
Hopefully that list helps some people if they are deciding between the two--I actually agonized over the decision for weeks UNTIL they just announced these upgrades. The list was simply too big and important for me to justify an iBook.
Originally posted by Gon
That list, while good and accurate, does nothing to refute my point. Apple needs to stop crippling iBook's graphics and memory ASAP. If they feel the Powerbook is not competetive if they stop crippling the iBook, they are right and the reason is they are not working hard enough to put pro level features in there. The 12" Powerbook is missing out on too many of the things that make the 15" and 17" fine computers. Apart from processor speed and the case, the 12" PB is pretty much exactly what I think the iBook should be. Not talking about base, stock model of course.
Just so I understand--exactly WHAT features is the 12" PB missing from the 15 and 17"? GPU, faster firewire and backlit keyboard?
I'm not so sure that they can fit all of that into the 12". I'm not saying they CAN'T but perhaps there is a reason besides pricepoint that Apple decided to not have those features in the 12". . .perhaps heat, battery life, and space concerns? Again, you bring up a semi-valid point about the crippling of the iBook--but also realize that it is a sub 1,000 dollar notebook in base form. $500 dollars LESS than a bare-bones PB. I sincerely doubt that they COULD introduce the 12" PB as it is now at $999 and make any sort of decent margin. Just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by BCompDude
Just so I understand--exactly WHAT features is the 12" PB missing from the 15 and 17"? GPU, faster firewire and backlit keyboard?
I'm not so sure that they can fit all of that into the 12". I'm not saying they CAN'T but perhaps there is a reason besides pricepoint that Apple decided to not have those features in the 12". . .perhaps heat, battery life, and space concerns?
I said precisely what I want to see on the 12" PB on the earlier post, but here it is again.
"Now just add FW800, digital sound out, more GPU than the FX5200, dual link DVI and it's good."
It's possible they currently can't fit in any substantial improvement over the FX5200 and it's therefore reasonable they hold out for the next generation of compact graphics. Dual link DVI depends on GPU engineering too. But I don't see any reason not to have FW800 and digital audio out in there. Frankly, they should pick a better screen. I like the 15":s screen, I like the iBook's screen for the price of the iBook, but a pro machine should have better than the iBook's screen. Screen was the reason I didn't originally get a 12" PB but a 15" PB. I later switched to 12" iBook, both much more agreeable machines to me than the 12" PB.
Again, you bring up a semi-valid point about the crippling of the iBook--but also realize that it is a sub 1,000 dollar notebook in base form. $500 dollars LESS than a bare-bones PB. I sincerely doubt that they COULD introduce the 12" PB as it is now at $999 and make any sort of decent margin.
They could enable screen spanning and DVI on the iBook and I don't know if it would take any changes in hardware. Certainly it would not change the price. That's my point, not that they should change the price of the Powerbook to $1000. The fact they are not doing this IMO shows they don't trust the Powerbook is substantially different from the iBook at all.
With 768 MB of RAM I could use it at both work and home and I have access to monitors in my two key locations but I've acclimated to widescreen. Even at these prices its an investment, and yeah. All that. 24 begins, must cut post short
Originally posted by MacsRbetterthanPC
nope i see it now, you arent paying the extra 100 for the 512 anymore,and its only 75 to go up to over 700MB of RAM. Thats cool. When did the last PB come out the one before this?
April 2004 - nearly 10 months ago