i hate that, since forever in any MacOS, you can't select items in pull-down menus with TAB like you can in Winblows. Especially when you have to select a country and wait those few seconds for the list to download, render or whatever the fuck Safari is doing.
Also, GMAIL is a bit loopy sometimes when trying to log in.
Nonetheless, I agree. The title of this post sucks.
i hate that, since forever in any MacOS, you can't select items in pull-down menus with TAB like you can in Winblows. Especially when you have to select a country and wait those few seconds for the list to download, render or whatever the fuck Safari is doing.
...
Nonetheless, I agree. The title of this post sucks.
type the first 2 or 3 letters of your desired item. e.g. If you do want to select "Zimbawe", type in "z-i". Selection will jump to the desired item.
I am extensive Mac user but no nothing whatsoever about programming/Java/etc. - only how to use the thing. So can someone explain something to me?
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
I appreciate that to those in the know this must be a stupid suggestion - otherwise they would have done it. But I hope you can explain it to a dunce like me!
I understand the *moral* reason of course (not giving in to MS etc.), but is there also a technical reason?
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) spends a lot of time and effort producing open standards and logical ways of structuring "languages" like HTML, XHTML and CSS that are used to create web pages.
Browsers like Firefox and Safari try (not always successfully) to render code in accordance with the standards which means that a designer should be able to predict excatly how his code will look like on a standards-compliant browser.
IE has many quirks and bugs. See this link for examples of some of the disasters in the IE rendering engine.
However, as you say, it would be possible for all browsers to work towards the (flawed) IE model rather than the W3C standards and so IE-compliant sites would work in their browsers. However, then standards-compliant sites would break instead. Also it would be very difficult for developers of those browsers as they would never have a fixed target of what to aim for as they would have to wait for each version of IE to come out and then fully road-test it to discover all its quirks in order to replicate them in their browser - they would always be a version or two beind and web developers wouldn't have a clue what they were supposed to be developing for. Not an ideal situation for anyone other than MS!
IE is slowly moving towards the standards and is switchable (by use of a doctype in the web page) between a legacy "quirks" mode and a "standards-compliant" mode. However, it is in quirks mode by default and many inexperienced web developers still design their pages by trial and error to work in the IE quirks mode without ever testing them in other standards-compliant browsers.
type the first 2 or 3 letters of your desired item. e.g. If you do want to select "Zimbawe", type in "z-i". Selection will jump to the desired item.
done
Btw, what do you want to select via TAB?
What I mean is, for example, the tab at the bottom right of the page you are reading now. To select which forum you want to go to. In Internet Exploder you can use the TAB key to get there (without mouse). You can then select up and down and press the key of the first letter of the selection (or country for example) you want. If I want France, and I am filling out an order form for example where I press Tab to go to the next field and get to the country tab, I get there and just keep pressing "f". Or scroll up and down with arrow keys.
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
....
There are several reasons to start. One is that IE developers chose to allow IE to render misformed HTML. By definition, such code is ambiguous. Correctly written code has only one meaning. Erroneous code can mean darned near anything. For other browsers to render erroneous code the same way that IE does, their developers would have to reverse engineer and clone IE. A second is that IE actually does a pretty good job of rendering standard HTML. There is rarely a technical reason for using IE-specific features. A major reason for such features is that the web site developer is ignorant or lazy or both. My third reason is something that some people don't understand or don't care about, but is probably the most important. The Internet was developed using taxpayer money as a way for disparate computers to communicate with each other. The World Wide Web was developed by Prof. Timothy Berners-Lee to allow scientists using disparate hardware to collaborate on their research and publications. His work was supported by taxpayers. What I am getting at is that the Internet, in general, and the World Wide Web, in particular, belong to all of us. We should not surrender our network to Microsoft.
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
You are making the assumption that IE has a "standard" that makes sense. IE is all over the map if you take a look at where they have been... and that is just counting the Windows versions (Mac IE was a completely different beast altogether).
And the big problem is not how IE handles good markup (although there are issues there). The big problem is how IE handles broken markup. Because it has to guess what the designer meant the behaviors become ver sensitive to small changes. If you want to try and follow that behavior you wind up reverse-engineering the code, and on something as complex as a web browser that is a prohibitively difficult task. And since Microsoft has a number of patents strewn in the path, it would probably wind up illegal somewhere along the line.
That being said, a lot of browsers have tried their hands at emulating IE's handling of broken code, ironically including later versions of IE! Usually this is called "quirks" mode, and there is a lot of web pages out there dedicated to that discussion...
What I mean is, for example, the tab at the bottom right of the page you are reading now. To select which forum you want to go to. In Internet Exploder you can use the TAB key to get there (without mouse). You can then select up and down and press the key of the first letter of the selection (or country for example) you want. If I want France, and I am filling out an order form for example where I press Tab to go to the next field and get to the country tab, I get there and just keep pressing "f". Or scroll up and down with arrow keys.
Cant do that on Mac AFAIK.
Um...if i press TAB right of this page
i am going to select the "Forum selection". Like you
suggested. I always do this. You can browse through the list
FF doesn't even support mac OSX services.... thats why i use camino. camino has a lot more features than safari (i.e. saving complete webpages to disc) and is more reliable.
Camino is a good App, and has a mac look and feel to it. Firefox has more people working on it, thus gets more attention.
I think that just about everybody would switch to FireFox if it was mac-like like Camino.
Camino renders faster than Safari. camino's bookmarks open instantly, without the annoying delay.
I tried omniweb, bought the license. Then I got annoyed with how long it takes to open bookmarks page. After playing with it, I got annoyed with the drawer-styled tabs too.
Safari is great for me. Sometimes it renders slowly. I wish it had a "Mail Liink" toolbar button like Camino and OmniWeb.
I personally prefer Netscape(I've always used Netscape and see no reason to switch) and cannot understand why so many people hate. On Windows its unbelieveably slow but on OS X its pretty fast, faster than Safari. I also dont understand why anyone would pay for a web browser (Omniweb) nowadays as there are so many free alternatives.
I personally prefer Netscape(I've always used Netscape and see no reason to switch) and cannot understand why so many people hate it. On Windows its unbelieveably slow but on OS X its pretty fast, faster than Safari. I also dont understand why anyone would pay for a web browser (Omniweb) nowadays as there are so many free alternatives.
I personally prefer Netscape(I've always used Netscape and see no reason to switch) and cannot understand why so many people hate it. On Windows its unbelieveably slow but on OS X its pretty fast, faster than Safari. I also dont understand why anyone would pay for a web browser (Omniweb) nowadays as there are so many free alternatives.
Comments
Also, GMAIL is a bit loopy sometimes when trying to log in.
Nonetheless, I agree. The title of this post sucks.
Originally posted by ZO
i hate that, since forever in any MacOS, you can't select items in pull-down menus with TAB like you can in Winblows. Especially when you have to select a country and wait those few seconds for the list to download, render or whatever the fuck Safari is doing.
...
Nonetheless, I agree. The title of this post sucks.
type the first 2 or 3 letters of your desired item. e.g. If you do want to select "Zimbawe", type in "z-i". Selection will jump to the desired item.
done
Btw, what do you want to select via TAB?
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
I appreciate that to those in the know this must be a stupid suggestion - otherwise they would have done it. But I hope you can explain it to a dunce like me!
I understand the *moral* reason of course (not giving in to MS etc.), but is there also a technical reason?
Originally posted by Mr Skills
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) spends a lot of time and effort producing open standards and logical ways of structuring "languages" like HTML, XHTML and CSS that are used to create web pages.
Browsers like Firefox and Safari try (not always successfully) to render code in accordance with the standards which means that a designer should be able to predict excatly how his code will look like on a standards-compliant browser.
IE has many quirks and bugs. See this link for examples of some of the disasters in the IE rendering engine.
However, as you say, it would be possible for all browsers to work towards the (flawed) IE model rather than the W3C standards and so IE-compliant sites would work in their browsers. However, then standards-compliant sites would break instead. Also it would be very difficult for developers of those browsers as they would never have a fixed target of what to aim for as they would have to wait for each version of IE to come out and then fully road-test it to discover all its quirks in order to replicate them in their browser - they would always be a version or two beind and web developers wouldn't have a clue what they were supposed to be developing for. Not an ideal situation for anyone other than MS!
IE is slowly moving towards the standards and is switchable (by use of a doctype in the web page) between a legacy "quirks" mode and a "standards-compliant" mode. However, it is in quirks mode by default and many inexperienced web developers still design their pages by trial and error to work in the IE quirks mode without ever testing them in other standards-compliant browsers.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
type the first 2 or 3 letters of your desired item. e.g. If you do want to select "Zimbawe", type in "z-i". Selection will jump to the desired item.
done
Btw, what do you want to select via TAB?
What I mean is, for example, the tab at the bottom right of the page you are reading now. To select which forum you want to go to. In Internet Exploder you can use the TAB key to get there (without mouse). You can then select up and down and press the key of the first letter of the selection (or country for example) you want. If I want France, and I am filling out an order form for example where I press Tab to go to the next field and get to the country tab, I get there and just keep pressing "f". Or scroll up and down with arrow keys.
Cant do that on Mac AFAIK.
Originally posted by Mr Skills
....
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
....
There are several reasons to start. One is that IE developers chose to allow IE to render misformed HTML. By definition, such code is ambiguous. Correctly written code has only one meaning. Erroneous code can mean darned near anything. For other browsers to render erroneous code the same way that IE does, their developers would have to reverse engineer and clone IE. A second is that IE actually does a pretty good job of rendering standard HTML. There is rarely a technical reason for using IE-specific features. A major reason for such features is that the web site developer is ignorant or lazy or both. My third reason is something that some people don't understand or don't care about, but is probably the most important. The Internet was developed using taxpayer money as a way for disparate computers to communicate with each other. The World Wide Web was developed by Prof. Timothy Berners-Lee to allow scientists using disparate hardware to collaborate on their research and publications. His work was supported by taxpayers. What I am getting at is that the Internet, in general, and the World Wide Web, in particular, belong to all of us. We should not surrender our network to Microsoft.
Originally posted by Mr Skills
If IE has a non-standard way of doing things that means that some IE-supporting sites will not work on Safari/Firefox ... why can't Safari/Firefox just adopt the IE standard?
You are making the assumption that IE has a "standard" that makes sense. IE is all over the map if you take a look at where they have been... and that is just counting the Windows versions (Mac IE was a completely different beast altogether).
And the big problem is not how IE handles good markup (although there are issues there). The big problem is how IE handles broken markup. Because it has to guess what the designer meant the behaviors become ver sensitive to small changes. If you want to try and follow that behavior you wind up reverse-engineering the code, and on something as complex as a web browser that is a prohibitively difficult task. And since Microsoft has a number of patents strewn in the path, it would probably wind up illegal somewhere along the line.
That being said, a lot of browsers have tried their hands at emulating IE's handling of broken code, ironically including later versions of IE! Usually this is called "quirks" mode, and there is a lot of web pages out there dedicated to that discussion...
Originally posted by ZO
What I mean is, for example, the tab at the bottom right of the page you are reading now. To select which forum you want to go to. In Internet Exploder you can use the TAB key to get there (without mouse). You can then select up and down and press the key of the first letter of the selection (or country for example) you want. If I want France, and I am filling out an order form for example where I press Tab to go to the next field and get to the country tab, I get there and just keep pressing "f". Or scroll up and down with arrow keys.
Cant do that on Mac AFAIK.
Um...if i press TAB right of this page
i am going to select the "Forum selection". Like you
suggested. I always do this. You can browse through the list
via arrow keys up/down. No big deal if you ask me
Originally posted by Ilja
Don't have to press the mousebutton, hitting enter will do as well... Don't you have to enable full keyboard access for this make it work?
Yeah i know see above
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11550
"Safari bookmark exporter"
Looks ok to me. We'll see
Edit: Works like a charm
don't forget to check out Live Bookmarks - RSS feeds, if you use any.
I think that just about everybody would switch to FireFox if it was mac-like like Camino.
Camino renders faster than Safari. camino's bookmarks open instantly, without the annoying delay.
I tried omniweb, bought the license. Then I got annoyed with how long it takes to open bookmarks page. After playing with it, I got annoyed with the drawer-styled tabs too.
Safari is great for me. Sometimes it renders slowly. I wish it had a "Mail Liink" toolbar button like Camino and OmniWeb.
Originally posted by Protostar
I personally prefer Netscape(I've always used Netscape and see no reason to switch) and cannot understand why so many people hate it. On Windows its unbelieveably slow but on OS X its pretty fast, faster than Safari. I also dont understand why anyone would pay for a web browser (Omniweb) nowadays as there are so many free alternatives.
It's not nice to double post.