I'm inclined to agree with Mawsdz rather than Frugal, and it's not just because Mawsdz can spell.
You can use Apple's spell check in any web browser in OS X, just right click on any text field and select "check spelling as you type."
Anyways, back to the topic at hand. I agree that Apple needs to add features, and I agree that HP probably uses hard drives not as good as Apples'.
I don't agree that HP hard drives are "crap," and I'd refer you to the sig of one of the board members here:
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The fact that you replace hard drives means precisely nothing as to your ability to judge hard drive longevity.
Apple laptops have to be better than the rest or at least comparable, as they will probably be the biggest attractor of switchers (yes, bigger than the mini). The recent speed bump was a joke, like Mawsdz said, the FSB is still crap. I'd add that Centrino is still eating the G4 alive.
This may be a little off subject, but it's got to be said. Frugle is a jackass. Hell, you are reading this, Frugle, you are a jackass. I'm so proud you have worked in call centers for HP, and reassembled laptops for them. I did that when I was 16, too. On top of that you are condescending to everyone who says anything on a FUTURE HARDWARE forum. This is just people discussing tomorrow?s news today, and you are going on and on about cheap ram. Everyone knows PC's use cheap parts, and that Kingston ram is quality stuff. I'd say a good 60 - 70% of people are here have been using computers, Mac or pc, for a decade plus now. I don't think you get that everything you have said has been said on this forum before; it's not amazing new material.
Now, you stating the obvious is not a ground for me to call you out on, but please;
Quote:
never listen to someone who posts like the person above.
That?s something that I haven't seen since a Counterstrike forum. We don't need that here. You have no right to mock someone trying to have an argument. Mawsdz was merely stating the specs on a PC, and how, although it?s a PC it is still very close to the specs on the powerbook. I'm not shocked that you are correct about parts being a big concern, I'm shocked at how belligerent you were towards him, and everyone else on this forum.
I know it may seem like you are at the top, but that?s just because no one else has their head up your ass.
That is like comparing a Rolse Royce to a ford, the ford sales guy shouts "WE HAVE HORSEPOWER - LOOK AT US FLY AT 130 MPH!!! (just dont lean on the body pannels lest you cave them in...)" Verses the Rolse Royce theory of "We have more than enough power for you, but that is not the most segnificant part of the car, have a glass of wine."
Now, you choose, a ford tarus with 500 horse power or a RR with 250, I know my pick...
Okay, I don't mind the car analogy as long as we do it correctly. First off, there is not really a Ford Taurus with 500 HP (outside of NASCAR, if they still run the Taurus) so let's compare appropriately.
I would label the Powerbook somewhere in the likes of a 5 series BMW (Not the M5 though because the Powerbook just doesn't have the gusto to justify that). If you want to drive around in a well built, nice ride, pleasure to drive, experiential vehicle, the 5 series will do nicely - as does the Powerbook. Great looks and lines, good technology, and well built. However, primarily and specifically, the 540 is more for pleasure then really getting work done in. The Powerbook CAN get lot's of work done and DOES do a fine job, But in comparison, it's a Real-estate agent computer right now, not a Heavy Duty work platform. It looks sexy, costs more, and is better built. Nonetheless, it is becoming more limited in it's practical work use.
Now, if you require a Ford, an F250 Let's say, it's not going to ride as nice, it's going to cost less, it's not as nice looking and definitely not going to give you that driving pleasure. It will however, pull a trailer, get you out of the mud, haul lot's of stuff, and provide a great platform to WORK from. Giving you the necessary power to get jobs done in a timely manner. IMO that is a better comparison.
Sure, I'd rather drive around a 540 instead of an f250, but when It's time to do Heavy Duty work the 540 isn't going to cut it. It's not about what your driving, it's about what your driving to get done what you need to get done.
I don't know maybe an even better comparison would be an Escalade ext compared to an f250. What do you think?
All the new improvements on the latest revision of the Powerbooks are very nice. Except the tiny upgrade on the processor. that's pathetic! little over 10% of increase in speed after so long.
My guess this is a temporary fix until the Powerbook G5 comes during WWDC 05. Steve Jobs loves to kick ass during his keynotes, so I don't see what else could come up then. My only other guess is a complete overhaul on the Powermac line to suggest big news at WWDC.
All the new improvements on the latest revision of the Powerbooks are very nice. Except the tiny upgrade on the processor. that's pathetic! little over 10% of increase in speed after so long. My guess this is a temporary fix until the Powerbook G5 comes during WWDC 05. Steve Jobs loves to kick ass during his keynotes, so I don't see what else could come up then. My only other guess is a complete overhaul on the Powermac line to suggest big news at WWDC.
what exactly was the clockspeed increase of the first pbG4, introduced in januari 2001, over the pbG3 that was introduced in march 2000? (that's 10 months)
that's right: 0%
the biggest inprovement was it's price: it costed about 300 euro more than it's predecessor. for a larger screen and a G4 processor. wow
you can't sell what doesn't excist
pbG5 @ WWDC05?
i think that's a rather optimistic timeframe, especially after this recent update.
maybe the next revision of the iBook can shine a light on that...
if it is introduced in the april/may 2005 timeframe and if it gets a considerable speedbump of say 10%, than i will get a little excited.
maybe the next revision of the iBook can shine a light on that...
Maybe not. The next iBooks will get what the previous Powerbooks had, that is G4 at 1.33 and 1.5 GHz. An autumn update for the Powerbooks will bring the 7448 chip, with higer clock speeds, double the L2 cache and faster bus. Overall noticeably faster than the Powerbooks we have today, or the iBooks in some months.
Unless Freescale fails in their roadmap and/or IBM comes with some low-power 64-bit solution until then (quite unlikely). However, Freescale/Motorola was quite consistent in respecting the G4 roadmap in the last 1-1.5 years, bringing two updates (7447A and 7447B), although not significant, just as scheduled or slightly in advance. Next update is the 7448, scheduled for production in 2H-05.
The whole problem is that unless Apple have an revolutionary new product coming during WWDC, what Steve will present? Powermacs are due for revision for long time. So unlikely there is a major improvement, well beyond the current model, I don't see anything else besides the Powerbook to be announced there that will cause the fuss Steve likes.
WWDC are basically the main stage for professional Mac hardware announcements. So since the Powermac G5 is already here, the logical place to introduce the Powerbook G5 will be there.
I heard all the fuss from Apple saying that powerbooks are long way away from the G5 form, but they would not tell us the truth now because it would hurt the current line up sales. So, I am still betting on it!
The whole problem is that unless Apple have an revolutionary new product coming during WWDC, what Steve will present? Powermacs are due for revision for long time. So unlikely there is a major improvement, well beyond the current model, I don't see anything else besides the Powerbook to be announced there that will cause the fuss Steve likes.
I fail to see why there is such need for something revolutionary for this particular event.
Quote:
WWDC are basically the main stage for professional Mac hardware announcements. So since the Powermac G5 is already here, the logical place to introduce the Powerbook G5 will be there.
I thought it was a... developer conference . Certainly, you need hardware to run your software, but again, why the hardware announcement must be so big? Was last year's Power Mac update so revolutionary? Why should it be this time? As for the Powerbook, June will be only around 4 months away from the last update.
Besides, this WWDC could be dedicated to the Tiger technologies, which is very likely to be released by the end of June, as Apple has not yet officially fixed a release date.
What if indeed the cell chips take 2 years to reach fruition and you need a huge amount of compiling to achieve performanc. Then wouldn't an announcement at the WWDC allow apple to grab those developers and push them to the cell framework?
What if indeed the cell chips take 2 years to reach fruition and you need a huge amount of compiling to achieve performanc. Then wouldn't an announcement at the WWDC allow apple to grab those developers and push them to the cell framework?
It would appear to me that a power pc derivitive is embedded on the chip with other massively speedy other chips and enormous bandwidth.
What appears to be another thrust of the discussion is that there would have to be a ton of re writing of code in order to take advantage of the cell chip's advantages.
Cell is also co-produced by IBM Sony and Toshiba
IBM- apple supplier
Sony-President on stage at MWSF
Toshiba-?
Can someone with better info/explaning abilities jump in here and give me a hand??
I fail to see why there is such need for something revolutionary for this particular event.
I thought it was a... developer conference . Certainly, you need hardware to run your software, but again, why the hardware announcement must be so big? Was last year's Power Mac update so revolutionary? Why should it be this time? As for the Powerbook, June will be only around 4 months away from the last update.
Besides, this WWDC could be dedicated to the Tiger technologies, which is very likely to be released by the end of June, as Apple has not yet officially fixed a release date.
Steve Jobs has 3 events that usually he introduces products. MWSF, WWDC and Expo Paris. WWDC is about developers, I agree. But he has using it lately to introduce professional hardware (Displays last year). MWSF for consumer products.
I also agree that the big buzz will be on Tiger. Steve has been talking about Tiger since last WWDC, Paris and recently MWSF. Tiger will be probably out before WWDC.
I still think Powerbook will be the one (if not some big hardware announcement). Nobody is expecting, that's why he loves surprises. That's my humble opinion.
I expect it to perform well as it is the last (?) incarnation of it's kind (there might be a higher resolution BTO one) - hopefully with all flaws fixed.
I know it wont be blazingly fast - but I only bought it as a stop gap until the Pb G5 arrives.
I do believe the Pb G5 will be introduced at WWDC, shipping this fall. Hopefully by next january I can sell of a few AAPL shares and buy a second generation Pb G5 for the profit.
Come on people, let's have a reality check. Except for its custom chips and logic boards, Macs are built with industry standard parts. Apple does what everyone else does. They attempt to maximize their profits by fitting their systems with the least expensive, but reliable hardware to meet their customer's needs. Yes, they sometimes get it wrong and need to upgrade a component or supply vendor to fix a hardware problem, but overall they've consistently put out a quality product.
Apple's strength is in controlling the hardware they use and building the software to maximize its stability and functionality. Oh, and of course they put it all together in best-of-breed designed enclosures. In achieving their quality objective, while maintaining their cash flow, Apple also uses slower memory and other components that are not cutting edge, or state-of-the-art, but are sufficiently proven to minimize reliability concerns. If Apple loses its quality experience reputation, it's dead.
This means that vendors who care less about quality can easily put together a system that's cheaper (Dell). It also means that other vendors can play a higher risk game by taking all the fastest, latest state-of-the-art hardware and throwing it into a box to claim the speed crown (Alienware, for gaming). Apple has never played in either of these games, although to listen to their marketing department you'd think otherwise.
The glue that ties together the hardware is the operating system. MacOS X's user interface, its tight integration with the hardware Apple chooses to use, and its industrial design state-of-the-art enclosures define the Mac experience. Thus, to me, singing the praises of any Windows-driven hardware configuration is beside the point. Sure, some of these systems may use better hardware. So what, if it's being driven by Windows?
Sure, I'd like Apple to push the hardware envelope a bit more to improve the user experience, but not at the price of system stability or reliability. And, not if it reduces their profit margins too much to generate the capital necessary to keep up the R&D to bring us better Macs in the future. Perhaps, if the iPods continue to sell well, and the Mac mini takes off, their cash flow will continue to improve enough that they feel better about including some newer technology quicker in their systems.
Concerning the latest PowerBook upgrades, they're perfectly timed for me. I'm more than ready to replace my aging 600MHz G3 14" iBook. I've been waiting patiently for the G5 PowerBook, and it's now pretty clear that that's not going to happen anytime soon. So, it's time to move on.
I expect it to perform well as it is the last (?) incarnation of it's kind (there might be a higher resolution BTO one) - hopefully with all flaws fixed.
I know it wont be blazingly fast - but I only bought it as a stop gap until the Pb G5 arrives.
I do believe the Pb G5 will be introduced at WWDC, shipping this fall. Hopefully by next january I can sell of a few AAPL shares and buy a second generation Pb G5 for the profit.
Apple would not announce a new PowerBook within five months of a revision. Sorry, we may see updated PowerBooks in September/October/November - but even then it wont be a G5. It takes six months (according to a reliable source) to put a new chip in a PowerBook. The G5 chip isn't ready yet. The next PowerBook will be a dual-core G4
There's a reason we classify purchasing advice as belonging in General Discussion rather than Future Hardware: Speculating about what will appear in which Mac when is fun and sometimes even informative, but since nobody really knows anything it's not of much use as far as when and how you should spend money.
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one. If what you have doesn't cut it anymore, and if the current PowerBook will take good care of you, get the PowerBook. There's really no reason not to buy what you need when you need it: then, when you need something, you have it. My brother has a 1.25GHz PowerBook, and having played around on it some, I'd vouch for the current line as being excellent machines.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...
Comments
You can use Apple's spell check in any web browser in OS X, just right click on any text field and select "check spelling as you type."
Anyways, back to the topic at hand. I agree that Apple needs to add features, and I agree that HP probably uses hard drives not as good as Apples'.
I don't agree that HP hard drives are "crap," and I'd refer you to the sig of one of the board members here:
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The fact that you replace hard drives means precisely nothing as to your ability to judge hard drive longevity.
Apple laptops have to be better than the rest or at least comparable, as they will probably be the biggest attractor of switchers (yes, bigger than the mini). The recent speed bump was a joke, like Mawsdz said, the FSB is still crap. I'd add that Centrino is still eating the G4 alive.
Now, you stating the obvious is not a ground for me to call you out on, but please;
never listen to someone who posts like the person above.
That?s something that I haven't seen since a Counterstrike forum. We don't need that here. You have no right to mock someone trying to have an argument. Mawsdz was merely stating the specs on a PC, and how, although it?s a PC it is still very close to the specs on the powerbook. I'm not shocked that you are correct about parts being a big concern, I'm shocked at how belligerent you were towards him, and everyone else on this forum.
I know it may seem like you are at the top, but that?s just because no one else has their head up your ass.
Originally posted by a_greer
That is like comparing a Rolse Royce to a ford, the ford sales guy shouts "WE HAVE HORSEPOWER - LOOK AT US FLY AT 130 MPH!!! (just dont lean on the body pannels lest you cave them in...)" Verses the Rolse Royce theory of "We have more than enough power for you, but that is not the most segnificant part of the car, have a glass of wine."
Now, you choose, a ford tarus with 500 horse power or a RR with 250, I know my pick...
Okay, I don't mind the car analogy as long as we do it correctly. First off, there is not really a Ford Taurus with 500 HP (outside of NASCAR, if they still run the Taurus) so let's compare appropriately.
I would label the Powerbook somewhere in the likes of a 5 series BMW (Not the M5 though because the Powerbook just doesn't have the gusto to justify that). If you want to drive around in a well built, nice ride, pleasure to drive, experiential vehicle, the 5 series will do nicely - as does the Powerbook. Great looks and lines, good technology, and well built. However, primarily and specifically, the 540 is more for pleasure then really getting work done in. The Powerbook CAN get lot's of work done and DOES do a fine job, But in comparison, it's a Real-estate agent computer right now, not a Heavy Duty work platform. It looks sexy, costs more, and is better built. Nonetheless, it is becoming more limited in it's practical work use.
Now, if you require a Ford, an F250 Let's say, it's not going to ride as nice, it's going to cost less, it's not as nice looking and definitely not going to give you that driving pleasure. It will however, pull a trailer, get you out of the mud, haul lot's of stuff, and provide a great platform to WORK from. Giving you the necessary power to get jobs done in a timely manner. IMO that is a better comparison.
Sure, I'd rather drive around a 540 instead of an f250, but when It's time to do Heavy Duty work the 540 isn't going to cut it. It's not about what your driving, it's about what your driving to get done what you need to get done.
I don't know maybe an even better comparison would be an Escalade ext compared to an f250. What do you think?
My guess this is a temporary fix until the Powerbook G5 comes during WWDC 05. Steve Jobs loves to kick ass during his keynotes, so I don't see what else could come up then. My only other guess is a complete overhaul on the Powermac line to suggest big news at WWDC.
Originally posted by Mawsdz
...
Plastic PeeCee and all, but pound for pound (not literally) the powerbook only really stands out aesthetically. ...
What does that suppose to mean?
Originally posted by gugy
All the new improvements on the latest revision of the Powerbooks are very nice. Except the tiny upgrade on the processor. that's pathetic! little over 10% of increase in speed after so long. My guess this is a temporary fix until the Powerbook G5 comes during WWDC 05. Steve Jobs loves to kick ass during his keynotes, so I don't see what else could come up then. My only other guess is a complete overhaul on the Powermac line to suggest big news at WWDC.
what exactly was the clockspeed increase of the first pbG4, introduced in januari 2001, over the pbG3 that was introduced in march 2000? (that's 10 months)
that's right: 0%
the biggest inprovement was it's price: it costed about 300 euro more than it's predecessor. for a larger screen and a G4 processor. wow
you can't sell what doesn't excist
pbG5 @ WWDC05?
i think that's a rather optimistic timeframe, especially after this recent update.
maybe the next revision of the iBook can shine a light on that...
if it is introduced in the april/may 2005 timeframe and if it gets a considerable speedbump of say 10%, than i will get a little excited.
Originally posted by gugy
My guess this is a temporary fix until the Powerbook G5 comes during WWDC 05.
Not gona happen. Just my guess.
Originally posted by gar
maybe the next revision of the iBook can shine a light on that...
Maybe not. The next iBooks will get what the previous Powerbooks had, that is G4 at 1.33 and 1.5 GHz. An autumn update for the Powerbooks will bring the 7448 chip, with higer clock speeds, double the L2 cache and faster bus. Overall noticeably faster than the Powerbooks we have today, or the iBooks in some months.
Unless Freescale fails in their roadmap and/or IBM comes with some low-power 64-bit solution until then (quite unlikely). However, Freescale/Motorola was quite consistent in respecting the G4 roadmap in the last 1-1.5 years, bringing two updates (7447A and 7447B), although not significant, just as scheduled or slightly in advance. Next update is the 7448, scheduled for production in 2H-05.
Originally posted by PB
Not gona happen. Just my guess.
well, how much do you want to bet?
The whole problem is that unless Apple have an revolutionary new product coming during WWDC, what Steve will present? Powermacs are due for revision for long time. So unlikely there is a major improvement, well beyond the current model, I don't see anything else besides the Powerbook to be announced there that will cause the fuss Steve likes.
WWDC are basically the main stage for professional Mac hardware announcements. So since the Powermac G5 is already here, the logical place to introduce the Powerbook G5 will be there.
I heard all the fuss from Apple saying that powerbooks are long way away from the G5 form, but they would not tell us the truth now because it would hurt the current line up sales. So, I am still betting on it!
Originally posted by gugy
The whole problem is that unless Apple have an revolutionary new product coming during WWDC, what Steve will present? Powermacs are due for revision for long time. So unlikely there is a major improvement, well beyond the current model, I don't see anything else besides the Powerbook to be announced there that will cause the fuss Steve likes.
I fail to see why there is such need for something revolutionary for this particular event.
WWDC are basically the main stage for professional Mac hardware announcements. So since the Powermac G5 is already here, the logical place to introduce the Powerbook G5 will be there.
I thought it was a... developer conference
Besides, this WWDC could be dedicated to the Tiger technologies, which is very likely to be released by the end of June, as Apple has not yet officially fixed a release date.
Steve could also talk about:
the mini sucess
the ipod & shuffle sucess
cell arcitecture - guys start developing as it will be incorporated "soon"
release of cell developer kit This could be the next OS OS XI cell!
one more thing:
announcement of itms Movie store with Sony
Originally posted by TednDi
What if indeed the cell chips take 2 years to reach fruition and you need a huge amount of compiling to achieve performanc. Then wouldn't an announcement at the WWDC allow apple to grab those developers and push them to the cell framework?
what has apple too do with cell?
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=50965
It would appear to me that a power pc derivitive is embedded on the chip with other massively speedy other chips and enormous bandwidth.
What appears to be another thrust of the discussion is that there would have to be a ton of re writing of code in order to take advantage of the cell chip's advantages.
Cell is also co-produced by IBM Sony and Toshiba
IBM- apple supplier
Sony-President on stage at MWSF
Toshiba-?
Can someone with better info/explaning abilities jump in here and give me a hand??
Originally posted by PB
I fail to see why there is such need for something revolutionary for this particular event.
I thought it was a... developer conference
Besides, this WWDC could be dedicated to the Tiger technologies, which is very likely to be released by the end of June, as Apple has not yet officially fixed a release date.
Steve Jobs has 3 events that usually he introduces products. MWSF, WWDC and Expo Paris. WWDC is about developers, I agree. But he has using it lately to introduce professional hardware (Displays last year). MWSF for consumer products.
I also agree that the big buzz will be on Tiger. Steve has been talking about Tiger since last WWDC, Paris and recently MWSF. Tiger will be probably out before WWDC.
I still think Powerbook will be the one (if not some big hardware announcement). Nobody is expecting, that's why he loves surprises. That's my humble opinion.
I still have the old 1 GHZ 17 inch and will not upgrade to the latest one cause.. well..you know..it is still G4.
You what the best thing is for waiting? When the G5 PB is there you have alot of cash saved up to spent.
I expect it to perform well as it is the last (?) incarnation of it's kind (there might be a higher resolution BTO one) - hopefully with all flaws fixed.
I know it wont be blazingly fast - but I only bought it as a stop gap until the Pb G5 arrives.
I do believe the Pb G5 will be introduced at WWDC, shipping this fall. Hopefully by next january I can sell of a few AAPL shares and buy a second generation Pb G5 for the profit.
Originally posted by Dave Marsh
Come on people, let's have a reality check. Except for its custom chips and logic boards, Macs are built with industry standard parts. Apple does what everyone else does. They attempt to maximize their profits by fitting their systems with the least expensive, but reliable hardware to meet their customer's needs. Yes, they sometimes get it wrong and need to upgrade a component or supply vendor to fix a hardware problem, but overall they've consistently put out a quality product.
Apple's strength is in controlling the hardware they use and building the software to maximize its stability and functionality. Oh, and of course they put it all together in best-of-breed designed enclosures. In achieving their quality objective, while maintaining their cash flow, Apple also uses slower memory and other components that are not cutting edge, or state-of-the-art, but are sufficiently proven to minimize reliability concerns. If Apple loses its quality experience reputation, it's dead.
This means that vendors who care less about quality can easily put together a system that's cheaper (Dell). It also means that other vendors can play a higher risk game by taking all the fastest, latest state-of-the-art hardware and throwing it into a box to claim the speed crown (Alienware, for gaming). Apple has never played in either of these games, although to listen to their marketing department you'd think otherwise.
The glue that ties together the hardware is the operating system. MacOS X's user interface, its tight integration with the hardware Apple chooses to use, and its industrial design state-of-the-art enclosures define the Mac experience. Thus, to me, singing the praises of any Windows-driven hardware configuration is beside the point. Sure, some of these systems may use better hardware. So what, if it's being driven by Windows?
Sure, I'd like Apple to push the hardware envelope a bit more to improve the user experience, but not at the price of system stability or reliability. And, not if it reduces their profit margins too much to generate the capital necessary to keep up the R&D to bring us better Macs in the future. Perhaps, if the iPods continue to sell well, and the Mac mini takes off, their cash flow will continue to improve enough that they feel better about including some newer technology quicker in their systems.
Concerning the latest PowerBook upgrades, they're perfectly timed for me. I'm more than ready to replace my aging 600MHz G3 14" iBook. I've been waiting patiently for the G5 PowerBook, and it's now pretty clear that that's not going to happen anytime soon. So, it's time to move on.
great point, I'm in complete agreement with you
Originally posted by Kendoka
My new Pb 17" is in transit heading my way.
I expect it to perform well as it is the last (?) incarnation of it's kind (there might be a higher resolution BTO one) - hopefully with all flaws fixed.
I know it wont be blazingly fast - but I only bought it as a stop gap until the Pb G5 arrives.
I do believe the Pb G5 will be introduced at WWDC, shipping this fall. Hopefully by next january I can sell of a few AAPL shares and buy a second generation Pb G5 for the profit.
Apple would not announce a new PowerBook within five months of a revision. Sorry, we may see updated PowerBooks in September/October/November - but even then it wont be a G5. It takes six months (according to a reliable source) to put a new chip in a PowerBook. The G5 chip isn't ready yet. The next PowerBook will be a dual-core G4
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...