Why does that thing look like a slide projector from the 70's? Why would I want something like that when it projects a poor image a few centimeters with hardly any luminocity? Why would I pay $700 bucks for something as useless as this?
The current problem with projectors is that they don't fit well in a consumer's living room. It is hard to place a projector which needs wires strewn accross the room. Wires running accross the room simply don't pass the 'wife' test. A lightweight projector requiring only a power cord could easily be hung from a single screw in the wall.
A seemless and dead-simple wireless video feed would eliminate a huge hurdle to mass projector-adoption.
h.264 and AE anyone?
Do I think it will happen? Not yet.
But hey... i've already got a projector inside my coffee table and wires under the floor.
A 12 foot screen of shitty quality is still shitty quality...just bigger. 12 feet at 800x600 would be unbearable.
When watching movies - a 12' screen at 800x600 is OK.
I use a 10' screen, and for a while I was using 800x600 (which was the most my 6" CRT projector could do). I upgraded to an 8" projector, but the main improvement was brightness - going to 1344x1024 didn't make that much difference.
The problem here would be brightness also - I doubt that the LED projector would be bright enough for a 12' image.
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
Dead on. If Apple releases a projector you bet its gonna be HD capable. Add AirPort to a Mac mini and some new iSoftware and you're good to go. iMovie and iPod integration too via some doodad.
Is this needed now? No. A bit premature. But I'd say its coming when all the various parties are in line and the market is ready.
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
Hmmm... i must have missed that in my obsessively repeated viewings.
I hope he was refering to hardware. Unfortunately, I think he was refering to all the HD capabilities in their video production tools.
Also... i think he was refering to the capability of the projector to match pixel for pixel what he was on his monitor on the demo machine. It does seem like the only way to do software demos.
I saw that "LED" in there, but thought it must be a typo. I didn't follow the link, sorry. Now I have. It says "Users can easily create a 20-inch diagonal screen with only a little over a foot of projection distance, and a 40-inch screen image in less than a yard." It does not give any brightness figure.
That one-foot to one-yard projection distance is going to make for some really cozy meetings. And you'd better make sure the room is really dark too - no taking notes - because an LED projector is going to be really, really dim.
This is not just a niche within a niche. This is a niche within a niche within a niche. Why, they'll probably sell dozens of these! I'm not buying one.
That one-foot to one-yard projection distance is going to make for some really cozy meetings. And you'd better make sure the room is really dark too - no taking notes - because an LED projector is going to be really, really dim.
LEDs are not necessarily dim. Here is the 120 foot tall façade of the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas, illuminated by LEDs:
What LEDs are is nearly 100% efficient [edit: No, they aren't. See Splinemodel's correction down thread]. So they're the first choice in situations where you want a light that uses little to no power. That's why you see so many dim ones. Also, the old red ones are dirt cheap by now.
No, cubist didn't read the article and complained about life expectancy. Onlooker just voiced incredulity at the whole idea.
- Jasen.
Well yes I did, but I just happen to remember what started the rumor to begin with, but I can see a possible future in such a product, though for Apple I think it's more an office product. So until Apple brings their Office suite out of moth balls (which could happen soon), I suppose it's a possibility. But I think the competition would benefit more from Apple introducing such a product than Apple would, and I'll get to that later.
On the other hand: - Projector quality is not the greatest. Especially outside of the box. I have a 65" HD Projection TV, (which is all enclosed) and the quality is "pretty good", but it's being projected at a screen that's like a foot, or less away. The further you pull a projector back from it's target the larger those pixels get. Mine has no where as nice a picture as regular HDTV, or an HD plasma TV. (plasma has serious cool factor too)
iPod vs. Projector
The difference I see in Apple making MP3 players, and Apple, and making Projectors is.
Projectors are seriously old school. Companies that have been in the projector game for the better half of a century, are starting to make digital projectors that are found in some theaters that are of the finest quality, and components. They are mostly camera, and TV companies, and they really know their sh*t.
MP3 players were new ground, and MP3 is a computer age spawned market. Apple, in the minds of many is the original PC company, or at least the one that actually got it right in making a PC. So they were the Old School company with all the experience at the time. The MP3 player was theirs if they wanted it, and they took it.
Going up against cannon, or something of that nature probably wont be as easy, because if Apple was to make a big push in the projector biz, everybody else would use Apple's popularity, and soon the Apple projector buzz, to advertise their latest, and greatest projector ideas. Which I think they could probably under price, and out quality Apple on. Unless they didn't see this as a big enough market to enter, but we all already know these projectors already exist from other companies so they would compete as to not loose any market, or face.
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
I wasn't actually all that stumped by that comment after everything he showed was in HD format. It would be tough to do a demo showing off products that delivered HD resolution when you could only show them in 640x480 shots. I kind of thought that part explained it self.
What LEDs are is nearly 100% efficient. So they're the first choice in situations where you want a light that uses little to no power.
That's hardly true. LED materials technology is improving very fast, especially with true green, blue, and white LEDs. ("true green" is green around 525nm. Most green indicator LEDs are 574nm. Traffic lights are 505nm.) Anyway, the big players in LED technology are Nichia, Cree, and Agilent. Given the fact that 99% of LEDs are made in Taiwan, it's interesting that these are Japanese and American companies, not for any matter of the respective research climates, but rather because it means that more than 99% of LEDs aren't very efficient at all. The latest from these leaders is about 40% efficiency, and approaching 50%. The cheap, Taiwanese LEDs tend to be anywhere from 5% to 15% efficient.
Now, that's still a lot more efficient than the Halogen (or Xenon) bulbs in current projectors, but electroluminescent and bioluminescent technologies are still far more efficient. (and much less mature!)
Music players have been around as long as projectors. The iPod is no more 'new', than would be the occasionally-lusted-after iProjector.
(Disclaimer: I'm not predicting the release of an apple projector)
What I mean is. Music, and traditional companies that made listening devices were busy releasing MP3 compatible disk players, and DVD players that played MP3's. Sony Disk-man suddenly got MP3 capability. They didn't understand how to address the situation properly. Apple did, and chose the miniature Hard-Drive. 1000 songs in your pocket. 2 hour skip protection. Sony's disk-man was not going to compete with that. Plus, it was a worn out product.
Going up against cannon, or something of that nature probably wont be as easy, because if Apple was to make a big push in the projector biz, everybody else would use Apple's popularity, and soon the Apple projector buzz, to advertise their latest, and greatest projector ideas. Which I think they could probably under price, and out quality Apple on. Unless they didn't see this as a big enough market to enter, but we all already know these projectors already exist from other companies so they would compete as to not loose any market, or face.
As I mentioned before, projectors these days are comprised of fairly standard parts. There's not the black magic that there used to be. A projector is no more than a monitor with a lens and a bulb. Apple makes monitors, and is more than capable of making a projector. In fact, making a projector is far more simple than making the G5 motherboard.
In fact, making a projector is far more simple than making the G5 motherboard.
You would think so being that projectors have been around the better half of the last century.
Regardless, of the opinion on how cheap projectors can be comprised of fairly standard parts I still think existing projector companies would have no problem making higher quality, and underpricing Apple while riding Apples buzz to the bank on this.
Music player companies currently have no problem underpricing the iPod... but with little success at outselling it.
Music players have been around just as long as projectors. Now I bet you're thinking that the iPod being mp3 or aac based somehow makes it more unique to previous music players than today's projectors are to previous projectors. This is not the case. New projectors are drastically different to previous ones in the same way that new music players are different from old versions.
A small, wifi, DLP projector with the newest bulb or LED technology has the potential to revolutionize home theaters in the same way that iPods revolutionized music playback. Projectors offer huge screen area from a small box. Unfortunately they have some rather large drawbacks which make many consumers prefer other display technologies. If these limitations were overcome, projectors would become drastically more popular.
Regardless, of the opinion on how cheap projectors can be comprised of fairly standard parts I still think existing projector companies would have no problem making higher quality, and underpricing Apple while riding Apples buzz to the bank on this.
That sounds familiar, I must have read 500 articles about "iPod killers" where someone else would make a cheaper version and Apple would once again invent a category so others could take it over. I noticed that the Dell DJ 20 GB player dropped from $249 to $229 recently... nobody cares.
When Apple does something, they do it right. Design is part of the equation but software is the key and this product would not be limited to road warriers making Keynote presentations. Like the Airport Express, this product would have many uses (TV, movies, presentations at home or anywhere else). There are a number or long-standing rumors (media center, cell processors, 40"+ displays, projectors) that could come together when the hardware (cell) and software (Tiger and QT7) are ready.
Taking this a step further, if future iPods and this projector were based on cell, this would make an incredible portable platform for HD video. But I'm sure that Canon could match that right away. I have a Canon EOS 20D and can assure you that Canon is clueless when it comes to software.
That sounds familiar, I must have read 500 articles about "iPod killers" where someone else would make a cheaper version and Apple would once again invent a category so others could take it over. I noticed that the Dell DJ 20 GB player dropped from $249 to $229 recently... nobody cares.
When Apple does something, they do it right. Design is part of the equation but software is the key and this product would not be limited to road warriers making Keynote presentations. Like the Airport Express, this product would have many uses (TV, movies, presentations at home or anywhere else). There are a number or long-standing rumors (media center, cell processors, 40"+ displays, projectors) that could come together when the hardware (cell) and software (Tiger and QT7) are ready.
Taking this a step further, if future iPods and this projector were based on cell, this would make an incredible portable platform for HD video. But I'm sure that Canon could match that right away. I have a Canon EOS 20D and can assure you that Canon is clueless when it comes to software.
You skipped the heart of the point entirely. But I'm done in here anyway. Have fun all.
Comments
I don't think so.
A seemless and dead-simple wireless video feed would eliminate a huge hurdle to mass projector-adoption.
h.264 and AE anyone?
Do I think it will happen? Not yet.
But hey... i've already got a projector inside my coffee table and wires under the floor.
Originally posted by webmail
If you can put a $200 device in your pocket that projects a 12 FOOT screen anywhere would you buy one?
A 12 foot screen of shitty quality is still shitty quality...just bigger. 12 feet at 800x600 would be unbearable.
Originally posted by Spytap
A 12 foot screen of shitty quality is still shitty quality...just bigger. 12 feet at 800x600 would be unbearable.
When watching movies - a 12' screen at 800x600 is OK.
I use a 10' screen, and for a while I was using 800x600 (which was the most my 6" CRT projector could do). I upgraded to an 8" projector, but the main improvement was brightness - going to 1344x1024 didn't make that much difference.
The problem here would be brightness also - I doubt that the LED projector would be bright enough for a 12' image.
Originally posted by invisiblesun
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
Dead on. If Apple releases a projector you bet its gonna be HD capable. Add AirPort to a Mac mini and some new iSoftware and you're good to go. iMovie and iPod integration too via some doodad.
Is this needed now? No. A bit premature. But I'd say its coming when all the various parties are in line and the market is ready.
Originally posted by invisiblesun
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
Hmmm... i must have missed that in my obsessively repeated viewings.
I hope he was refering to hardware. Unfortunately, I think he was refering to all the HD capabilities in their video production tools.
Also... i think he was refering to the capability of the projector to match pixel for pixel what he was on his monitor on the demo machine. It does seem like the only way to do software demos.
(fingers crossed anyway)
That one-foot to one-yard projection distance is going to make for some really cozy meetings. And you'd better make sure the room is really dark too - no taking notes - because an LED projector is going to be really, really dim.
This is not just a niche within a niche. This is a niche within a niche within a niche. Why, they'll probably sell dozens of these! I'm not buying one.
Originally posted by cubist
That one-foot to one-yard projection distance is going to make for some really cozy meetings. And you'd better make sure the room is really dark too - no taking notes - because an LED projector is going to be really, really dim.
LEDs are not necessarily dim. Here is the 120 foot tall façade of the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas, illuminated by LEDs:
http://colorkinetics.com/showcase/installs/?id=93
What LEDs are is nearly 100% efficient [edit: No, they aren't. See Splinemodel's correction down thread]. So they're the first choice in situations where you want a light that uses little to no power. That's why you see so many dim ones. Also, the old red ones are dirt cheap by now.
Originally posted by dfiler
Hmmm... i must have missed that in my obsessively repeated viewings.
I went back to see exactly what he said between 0:01:00 and 0:01:10 (first minute) and it is:
"This is the first Macworld we've ever used HD projection. It's incredible, wait until you see it. You can wonder WHY?"
I know I've been wondering why ever since...
Kormac, I believe!!
Originally posted by invisiblesun
I went back to see exactly what he said between 0:01:00 and 0:01:10 (first minute) and it is:
"This is the first Macworld we've ever used HD projection. It's incredible, wait until you see it. You can wonder WHY?"
I know I've been wondering why ever since...
Kormac, I believe!!
i thought this was because of the new HD codec of quicktime and not new hardware?
Originally posted by jasenj1
No, cubist didn't read the article and complained about life expectancy. Onlooker just voiced incredulity at the whole idea.
- Jasen.
Well yes I did, but I just happen to remember what started the rumor to begin with, but I can see a possible future in such a product, though for Apple I think it's more an office product. So until Apple brings their Office suite out of moth balls (which could happen soon), I suppose it's a possibility. But I think the competition would benefit more from Apple introducing such a product than Apple would, and I'll get to that later.
On the other hand: - Projector quality is not the greatest. Especially outside of the box. I have a 65" HD Projection TV, (which is all enclosed) and the quality is "pretty good", but it's being projected at a screen that's like a foot, or less away. The further you pull a projector back from it's target the larger those pixels get. Mine has no where as nice a picture as regular HDTV, or an HD plasma TV. (plasma has serious cool factor too)
iPod vs. Projector
The difference I see in Apple making MP3 players, and Apple, and making Projectors is.
Projectors are seriously old school. Companies that have been in the projector game for the better half of a century, are starting to make digital projectors that are found in some theaters that are of the finest quality, and components. They are mostly camera, and TV companies, and they really know their sh*t.
MP3 players were new ground, and MP3 is a computer age spawned market. Apple, in the minds of many is the original PC company, or at least the one that actually got it right in making a PC. So they were the Old School company with all the experience at the time. The MP3 player was theirs if they wanted it, and they took it.
Going up against cannon, or something of that nature probably wont be as easy, because if Apple was to make a big push in the projector biz, everybody else would use Apple's popularity, and soon the Apple projector buzz, to advertise their latest, and greatest projector ideas. Which I think they could probably under price, and out quality Apple on. Unless they didn't see this as a big enough market to enter, but we all already know these projectors already exist from other companies so they would compete as to not loose any market, or face.
Just take a look at this one: Drink Me!
Originally posted by invisiblesun
you are all forgetting job's comment right at the beginning of the last keynote where he says something like "this is the first time we're projecting in HD. It's gorgeous. I'll leave you to ask yourselves WHY?"
I wasn't actually all that stumped by that comment after everything he showed was in HD format. It would be tough to do a demo showing off products that delivered HD resolution when you could only show them in 640x480 shots. I kind of thought that part explained it self.
(Disclaimer: I'm not predicting the release of an apple projector)
Originally posted by Amorph
What LEDs are is nearly 100% efficient. So they're the first choice in situations where you want a light that uses little to no power.
That's hardly true. LED materials technology is improving very fast, especially with true green, blue, and white LEDs. ("true green" is green around 525nm. Most green indicator LEDs are 574nm. Traffic lights are 505nm.) Anyway, the big players in LED technology are Nichia, Cree, and Agilent. Given the fact that 99% of LEDs are made in Taiwan, it's interesting that these are Japanese and American companies, not for any matter of the respective research climates, but rather because it means that more than 99% of LEDs aren't very efficient at all. The latest from these leaders is about 40% efficiency, and approaching 50%. The cheap, Taiwanese LEDs tend to be anywhere from 5% to 15% efficient.
Now, that's still a lot more efficient than the Halogen (or Xenon) bulbs in current projectors, but electroluminescent and bioluminescent technologies are still far more efficient. (and much less mature!)
Originally posted by dfiler
Music players have been around as long as projectors. The iPod is no more 'new', than would be the occasionally-lusted-after iProjector.
(Disclaimer: I'm not predicting the release of an apple projector)
What I mean is. Music, and traditional companies that made listening devices were busy releasing MP3 compatible disk players, and DVD players that played MP3's. Sony Disk-man suddenly got MP3 capability. They didn't understand how to address the situation properly. Apple did, and chose the miniature Hard-Drive. 1000 songs in your pocket. 2 hour skip protection. Sony's disk-man was not going to compete with that. Plus, it was a worn out product.
Anyway. Back to our show...
Originally posted by onlooker
Going up against cannon, or something of that nature probably wont be as easy, because if Apple was to make a big push in the projector biz, everybody else would use Apple's popularity, and soon the Apple projector buzz, to advertise their latest, and greatest projector ideas. Which I think they could probably under price, and out quality Apple on. Unless they didn't see this as a big enough market to enter, but we all already know these projectors already exist from other companies so they would compete as to not loose any market, or face.
As I mentioned before, projectors these days are comprised of fairly standard parts. There's not the black magic that there used to be. A projector is no more than a monitor with a lens and a bulb. Apple makes monitors, and is more than capable of making a projector. In fact, making a projector is far more simple than making the G5 motherboard.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
In fact, making a projector is far more simple than making the G5 motherboard.
You would think so being that projectors have been around the better half of the last century.
Regardless, of the opinion on how cheap projectors can be comprised of fairly standard parts I still think existing projector companies would have no problem making higher quality, and underpricing Apple while riding Apples buzz to the bank on this.
Music players have been around just as long as projectors. Now I bet you're thinking that the iPod being mp3 or aac based somehow makes it more unique to previous music players than today's projectors are to previous projectors. This is not the case. New projectors are drastically different to previous ones in the same way that new music players are different from old versions.
A small, wifi, DLP projector with the newest bulb or LED technology has the potential to revolutionize home theaters in the same way that iPods revolutionized music playback. Projectors offer huge screen area from a small box. Unfortunately they have some rather large drawbacks which make many consumers prefer other display technologies. If these limitations were overcome, projectors would become drastically more popular.
Originally posted by onlooker
Regardless, of the opinion on how cheap projectors can be comprised of fairly standard parts I still think existing projector companies would have no problem making higher quality, and underpricing Apple while riding Apples buzz to the bank on this.
That sounds familiar, I must have read 500 articles about "iPod killers" where someone else would make a cheaper version and Apple would once again invent a category so others could take it over. I noticed that the Dell DJ 20 GB player dropped from $249 to $229 recently... nobody cares.
When Apple does something, they do it right. Design is part of the equation but software is the key and this product would not be limited to road warriers making Keynote presentations. Like the Airport Express, this product would have many uses (TV, movies, presentations at home or anywhere else). There are a number or long-standing rumors (media center, cell processors, 40"+ displays, projectors) that could come together when the hardware (cell) and software (Tiger and QT7) are ready.
Taking this a step further, if future iPods and this projector were based on cell, this would make an incredible portable platform for HD video. But I'm sure that Canon could match that right away. I have a Canon EOS 20D and can assure you that Canon is clueless when it comes to software.
Originally posted by jaslu81
That sounds familiar, I must have read 500 articles about "iPod killers" where someone else would make a cheaper version and Apple would once again invent a category so others could take it over. I noticed that the Dell DJ 20 GB player dropped from $249 to $229 recently... nobody cares.
When Apple does something, they do it right. Design is part of the equation but software is the key and this product would not be limited to road warriers making Keynote presentations. Like the Airport Express, this product would have many uses (TV, movies, presentations at home or anywhere else). There are a number or long-standing rumors (media center, cell processors, 40"+ displays, projectors) that could come together when the hardware (cell) and software (Tiger and QT7) are ready.
Taking this a step further, if future iPods and this projector were based on cell, this would make an incredible portable platform for HD video. But I'm sure that Canon could match that right away. I have a Canon EOS 20D and can assure you that Canon is clueless when it comes to software.
You skipped the heart of the point entirely. But I'm done in here anyway. Have fun all.