A shift in Apple focus...?
Hi All,
With the release of the new iPods, Apple seems to indicate that it is slightly shifting focus with regard to hardware and continues a precedent that was initialised with the Mac mini:
Namely the they are making their products appear to be cheaper, but when factoring in the extra costs of hardware that used to be included (in the case of the iPod mini, the Firewire cable and power adapter) is not actually that different.
I understand about people's right to choose what they do and don't want (and so if they only want an iPod, they shouldn't have to pay extra). But does anyone else think this is an unusual direction for Apple to take (whereby in the case of software, e.g. iLife is included in the box)?
It strikes me that we are moving towards (and admittedly we have a very long way to go yet) a more 'PC design' ethos. Namely that whilst initial product may be cheap, adding the extra functionality that we have come to expect from Apple may end up costing us as much.
(Although it could always just be a nice hook to get more people to buy an iPod on the wintel side, as they have no need for firewire usually
)
[Edit; Mods feel free to move this to General Discussion if you think it is more appropriate]
With the release of the new iPods, Apple seems to indicate that it is slightly shifting focus with regard to hardware and continues a precedent that was initialised with the Mac mini:
Namely the they are making their products appear to be cheaper, but when factoring in the extra costs of hardware that used to be included (in the case of the iPod mini, the Firewire cable and power adapter) is not actually that different.
I understand about people's right to choose what they do and don't want (and so if they only want an iPod, they shouldn't have to pay extra). But does anyone else think this is an unusual direction for Apple to take (whereby in the case of software, e.g. iLife is included in the box)?
It strikes me that we are moving towards (and admittedly we have a very long way to go yet) a more 'PC design' ethos. Namely that whilst initial product may be cheap, adding the extra functionality that we have come to expect from Apple may end up costing us as much.
(Although it could always just be a nice hook to get more people to buy an iPod on the wintel side, as they have no need for firewire usually
)[Edit; Mods feel free to move this to General Discussion if you think it is more appropriate]
Comments
Originally posted by Relic
I'm just upset about the whole thing; this new direction towards appeasing PC cheap skates with cheap Macs feels like Apples whoreing them selves. I missed the old days when poor people couldn?t afford Macs, made me feel superior. Like kicking Tiger woods off a golf course, not because he?s black of course but because he?s black and Chinese, just makes you feel superior.
Seriously though, Given the option of packaging it in and jacking the price or reaching a wider market - I'd reach for that wider market. We're in a golden age here kids - hopefully this is where the big break comes.
I just got my mini today. It's my first Apple desktop. The out of the box to on the net in under ten minutes couldn't have been more true.
Best part about it? I don't have to dig around for that Norton CD
I took a $750 Canadian computer and tossed in some extras to get it over a G. Was it worth it? Oh yes. Would I have considered the computer at the price I paid for it? Probably not. It's a modern retail age - let the customer sell themselves on the benefits.
Anyway, yeah, it sorta seems like that's their plan. Make it look cheaper. That will get you a lot of headlines with the media. Works for Dell. They sell, what, $369 "computers"... go figure.
I wouldn't worry too much. In reality it's a smart thing to do. So, your iPod doesn't include a firewire cable. Truth is, only ones who will miss that are Mac users who own a computer with USB 1.x who happen to get an iPod.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Speaking of Tiger.... I would love to see some ads about Mac OS X Tiger with Tony the Tiger and Tiger Woods, all while wearing their iPods etc. That would be cool and it would help boost sales of Macs. They need to advertise Mac OS X!
In all I believe this is a shrewd decision for Apple. I believe their focus needs to be maintaining the huge marketshare advantage that the iPods currently enjoy and if that means stripping away some items to hit pricepoints then sobeit. We all benefit from having a financially fit Apple generating huge profits. It definitely is PC'ish but then again PC users buy more iPods than Mac users so in essence we are stating the obvious.
As MonkeyAstronaught said..the only people truly affected are USB 1.1 users. As long as my iPod charges when hooked up to the computer then an AC adapter is a nicety but not a necessity.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I agree Dave and I think this kind of tells you how good Mac users have had it over the years. We've aknowledged that we pay a premium price for Macs but we haven't always acknowledged that Apple, more times than not, includes items that are "extras" on the brand-x platform.
In all I believe this is a shrewd decision for Apple. I believe their focus needs to be maintaining the huge marketshare advantage that the iPods currently enjoy and if that means stripping away some items to hit pricepoints then sobeit. We all benefit from having a financially fit Apple generating huge profits. It definitely is PC'ish but then again PC users buy more iPods than Mac users so in essence we are stating the obvious.
As MonkeyAstronaught said..the only people truly affected are USB 1.1 users. As long as my iPod charges when hooked up to the computer then an AC adapter is a nicety but not a necessity.
how good we've had it? Why can't we still have it good. Apple used to pride itself in providing standard what the competition offered optional or not at all. Sure, we've always paid a bit more, but in doing so we always paid more for a well-rounded, fully equipped/featured product. I'm not too upset about the iPods dropping of accessories and the firewire cable, I just find it unfortunate and hope it doesn't continue to be a pattern. Apple even seems to miss the little things these days, like not including stickers for PC keyboards with the mac mini to mimmick Apple keyboard specific keys. This is stuff Apple used to always think of, the little things. I don't have any macs with USB 2. I own several iPods but want a new one, I don't want a new mac as of now, don't have a real need for one. The only people they hurt with the lack of a firewire cable is their own installed base. Doesn't make much sense to me. And now it appears its coming down to a nickels and dimes game with Apple. I guess they really care about their margins that much
Case in point, my 2003 PT Cruiser Turbo while gaining a turbo engine, lost fold-in, heated side mirrors, as well as losing the tinted band at the top of the windshield. Maybe it doesn't seem like a huge deal, but when I learned about the mirror change I was pretty pissed since I specifically asked the salesman about this feature and he said 'they only come on the more expensive auto lines'. I took him at his word, but was pretty pissed when I found out the 2002 models had these heated mirrors as standard.
So this seems comparable to the issues current iPod owners are going through comparing their current models to the newly released ones. The iPod's price has been reduced, but so has its options package.
Also....One can feed their elitist Apple desires with Xserves!
It's not like they took away it's firewire capabilities for god's sake...
Originally posted by applenut
The only people they hurt with the lack of a firewire cable is their own installed base. Doesn't make much sense to me. And now it appears its coming down to a nickels and dimes game with Apple. I guess they really care about their margins that much
Well, good thing the problem is solved with the purchase of an inexpensive firewire cable.
But I don't blame them for trying to obtain a larger profit margin. Competition forces them to do these kind of things. As good as the iPod is...
You're right about the stickers though.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Well, good thing the problem is solved with the purchase of an inexpensive firewire cable.
But I don't blame them for trying to obtain a larger profit margin. Competition forces them to do these kind of things. As good as the iPod is...
You're right about the stickers though.
But they were kicking the competitions ass with the "inexpensive" firewire cord included--and showing off a cool mac feature in the process. With component prices already dropping, it is not like their margins were hurting. This just seems like a stupid decision.
Originally posted by rageous
The sky isn't falling. You can still use firewire. The only difference is that you have to get the cable separate. Big whoop.
It's not like they took away it's firewire capabilities for god's sake...
No, but there is nothing to say they won't. And an extra $25 dollars to make my Apple product work with my other Apple product--well, it's at least a medium size whoop to me. Possible leaning towards a fairly large whoop. Especially since the Photo under-whelmed me from the beginning.
I loved my 1st generation iPod, I thought the mini and shuffle were great additions to the line. The new six gig mini could be great. But the moves at the top end of the line leave me cold, and the loss of firewire makes me mad.
Originally posted by Mac on a Mac
I think that Woods is THAI and black, not Chinese.
as a 'half-ling' myself (half-indian(as in india not red indian
Originally posted by Relic
I'm just upset about the whole thing; this new direction towards appeasing PC cheap skates with cheap Macs feels like Apples whoreing them selves. I missed the old days when poor people couldn?t afford Macs, made me feel superior. Like kicking Tiger woods off a golf course, not because he?s black of course but because he?s black and Chinese, just makes you feel superior.
(a) whether they are true about all the whining about Macs being better
(b) whether they are just elitist snobs
i hope as Mac loyalists we can accept (a) and set (b) aside.
i had an obviously non-Mac guy who worked for Veritas say pretty much, "ah, Apple? nah, not relevant, they just make iPods"
Mac fans of the world, this is our chance, it has been delivered to us on a delicious platter of iPodness, we need to take it and CONVERT as many to the Mac computer platform, moving them beyond their iPods and pee cees.... bwah ha ha ha ha
Originally posted by sunilraman
(a) whether they are true about all the whining about Macs being better
(b) whether they are just elitist snobs
i hope as Mac loyalists we can accept (a) and set (b) aside.
i had an obviously non-Mac guy who worked for Veritas say pretty much, "ah, Apple? nah, not relevant, they just make iPods"
Mac fans of the world, this is our chance, it has been delivered to us on a delicious platter of iPodness, we need to take it and CONVERT as many to the Mac computer platform, moving them beyond their iPods and pee cees.... bwah ha ha ha ha
But with the firewire thing, I fear that Apple is sacrificing A. That is, if in their move towards the low-end PC user, they give up the very things that make Apple products special, then I have no more loyalty to them than to Dell. Apple shows you can compete on something other than low-price.
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
But with the firewire thing, I fear that Apple is sacrificing A. That is, if in their move towards the low-end PC user, they give up the very things that make Apple products special, then I have no more loyalty to them than to Dell. Apple shows you can compete on something other than low-price.
DJ, i understand your concern. However there is no way in hell that Apple is going to dump Firewire. The day that happens yes we will be up in arms. With the iPods, it's just that USB2.0 is much more common on PeeCees, so your Firewire Cable is US$19 extra if you love it (I love my firewire, if only because USB ports are always in bloody short supply).
With the price reductions, $19 more for firewire cable still results in a less expensive iPod experience than what you would get for a week ago.
Let's keep our hopes up, whatever comes after Firewire800 and after USB2.0 is the next battleground for high speed device transfers. Could be a wireless protocol. Firewire is NOT dead just yet
Originally posted by Bart Smastard
Just how much faster is Firewire than USB 2.0?
though 'rated' lower (firewire 400mbps/ usb2.0 480mbps), Firewire seems to have an edge on USB 2.0:
from pc land:
http://www.g4tv.com/freshgear/featur..._FireWire.html
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,844061,00.asp
trust your instincts. use your iPod with firewire NOT usb 2.0 and
(1) have better performance
(2) not use up your USB ports (save it for mouse, thumbdrive, etc)
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
...and the loss of firewire makes me mad.
Firewire isn't lost. It's still available for every model but the shuffle.