Waiting for Tiger: Pros/Cons/Questions

epyon · March 9, 2005 6:54PM

Hi. I'm new around here (and to the Mac scene in general).

So I'm planning on getting a 15" Powerbook, but I'd like to wait for Tiger. I am well aware that no official info has been released besides first half of 2005, but that said:

Pro's:

1) Save $100

Con's:

2) Waiting 2-3 months when your PC is acting up daily.

So are there any advantages to buying a PB with Tiger installed from the factory vs. upgrading yourself? Is the PB less likely to act up if it comes pre-installed with Tiger?

Seperately (and less importantly): I know there's no official information, but this will a) be my first Mac and b) be my first time buying a computer around an OS release. Do you think I will be able to buy my Powerbook at an Apple store on release day? What I mean is will I be able to call ahead and "reserve" a Powerbook with Tiger on it? (This is obviously once the release information has come out).

Thanks.

yikes600 · March 9, 2005 9:58PM

Hmm, that's a tough one. Last time I bought a new mac, it came with an up-to-date program allowing me to upgrade to the new OS for $20 if it was released two months from my date of purchase. I think this still applies, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Are you a student? Students get a big discount (~50%) on OS X. Using it might make it easier on your wallet if you decide to buy now.

karl kuehn · March 9, 2005 10:04PM

First off, your pro and con pretty much sums up the arguments for and against getting the computer now and then buying Tiger when it comes out. There are rarely any differences between the end result of upgrading and a clean install (other than the user files and preferences). In fact you can even choose to do an install where the system folder is moved aside and a clean new one is put in it's place (while keeping the user folders, and optionally transferring most of the system preferences).

I can only think of a few instances in the upgrade history of the MacOS where this was not the case, and the most recent is that users upgrading to 10.3 have less secure passwords than users created on 10.3 (until they change the password once).

Once a final shipping date for MacOS X 10.4 is announced a date will probably be announced (usually that day) when people who purchase from that point onward are eligible for the Apple Up-To-Date program. This usually means that for an nominal fee ($20) you get the newest version sent to you. If they start shipping on that day they usually back-date it 20-40 days. So if you watch the WWDC keynote (assuming that is when it comes out and that you are there or they are webcasting it) and then go to your local Apple Store and pickup a PowerBook off the shelf (that clearly would not have the new software) you could get Apple to send you 10.4.

jdraden · March 9, 2005 10:36PM

I recommend just getting the Powerbook now. Consider this:

Panther has had 8 updates so far (it's currently 10.3.8), and is quite mature and stable. When Tiger comes out it will be version 10.4.0, and it may take a while to reach the same level of stability found already in Panther. In fact, some people will wait until 10.4.1 or 10.4.2 before they upgrade, just to make sure the bigger bugs are worked out.

Some applications require a minor update before they are compatible with new versions of OS X. This could take a week to several months after the public release of Tiger.

Even if Tiger gets released in June, the update might not immediately be installed on newly purchased hardware (although you will be able to upgrade for a nominal fee).

Let us know what you end up deciding, and good luck!

-J

junkyard dawg · March 10, 2005 1:16AM

If he buys a Mac after the Tiger release, either Tiger will be installed or they'll give him the Tiger install discs separately.

mcq · March 10, 2005 2:39AM

If your PC is giving you enough problems that the productivity gained after the learning curve time (differs for each person) is worth $100 to you, then buy it now. It would also give you sufficient time to get used to the OS, before adding on all the features of Tiger.

lundy · March 10, 2005 7:14AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epyon

Hi. I'm new around here (and to the Mac scene in general).

So I'm planning on getting a 15" Powerbook, but I'd like to wait for Tiger. I am well aware that no official info has been released besides first half of 2005, but that said:

Pro's:

1) Save $100

Have you considered the Tiger early start kit for developers? http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/tigerkit.html

For $500 for the Tiger early start, you get beta Tiger as well as Tiger Final and Tiger Server. You also get the developer discount on your (one) Powerbook and (one) monitor and (one) iPod. Go to the ADC Store (http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html click "Hardware Purchase Store") and see if the discount you would get.

Also if you are a college student you can get the student discount. It's on the bottom left of the Apple Store page.

epyon · March 10, 2005 10:16AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JDraden

I recommend just getting the Powerbook now. Consider this:

Panther has had 8 updates so far (it's currently 10.3. 8), and is quite mature and stable. When Tiger comes out it will be version 10.4.0, and it may take a while to reach the same level of stability found already in Panther. In fact, some people will wait until 10.4.1 or 10.4.2 before they upgrade, just to make sure the bigger bugs are worked out.

Some applications require a minor update before they are compatible with new versions of OS X. This could take a week to several months after the public release of Tiger.

Even if Tiger gets released in June, the update might not immediately be installed on newly purchased hardware (although you will be able to upgrade for a nominal fee).

Let us know what you end up deciding, and good luck!

-J

This makes the most sense to me. And 10.3.9 is supposed to be coming out late March, Early April. This also appeals to my impatient side.

I'm an engineering student, but I'm interning right now, so I'm not doing anything intensive with my computer. I really only browse the internet and chat daily. When I'm at school, that's a different story.

For reference sake, here's the PB I've got my eye on:

15" Powerbook

1.5 GHz

1 Gig RAM (from Apple)

80 Gig HD (5400 RPM)

Airport Thingy

Illuminated Keyboard

I'm also going to get a Microsoft Intelimouse Explorer (Wireless). I'm new to the Mac world, but I'm unwilling to give up my right click and my scroll wheel.

I'm going to get a Tucano sleeve so I can carry the PB in my backpack.

I'll probably wind up getting Halo as well. (I already own it on PC and Xbox, and I own Halo 2, but you can never get too much Halo).

My school has a great deal where I can get Office Mac Professional for $11 (as opposed to $500 retail, and $300 student discount from Apple).

I'm targeting early April for either buying the PB or if Tiger is announced then, I suppose I can wait a bit longer.

I'm really excited. I think I'm going to love owning a Mac.

ericeason · March 10, 2005 3:50PM

If you are a student and are at least 18, you can sign up as a student developer for $99. You get a hardware discount (usually 20%) and any updates to os X for 1 year. You also get 10.3 when you sign up that you can sell on ebay. Here is the link:http://developer.apple.com/students/index.html

karl kuehn · March 10, 2005 4:32PM

ericeason: No, you can't sell that on eBay, just like you can't sell any of the other osftware you get through the developer connction. To do so would be both unlawful (against the agreement) and immoral. How in the world did you think otherwise?

epyon · March 10, 2005 4:35PM

So I want to be sure I get this right:

I join the student developer club for $99. Even though I won't be doing any developing.

Can get I Tiger early through the early upgrade thing (posted above)?

I'll get 20% off my Powerbook and I'll get any upgrades to the OS for a year? So when Tiger comes out, I'll get that for free even if I'm not an early upgrade member?

Famous Last words: How can I lose?

bergz · March 10, 2005 5:56PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg

If he buys a Mac after the Tiger release, either Tiger will be installed or they'll give him the Tiger install discs separately.

This last possibility sounds ideal, actually. You ride out Panther until Tiger seems robust enough and then you can upgrade to the current Tiger update for free.

In a perfect world.

I think the best is to get the machine you like now. If you wait too long you *might* be faced with this:

Rev A PB G5 with Tiger 10.4.0 (unproven software on unproven hardware)

I waited a long while for this last PB rev, and wasn't as disappointed as some, but do recognize that if it weren't for the couple hundred bucks I saved, it probably wouldn't have been worth the wait. Hate the waiting game. If you get to know Panther first, then Tiger's advances will just be that much more impressive.

--B

lundy · March 10, 2005 6:19PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epyon

So I want to be sure I get this right:

I join the student developer club for $99. Even though I won't be doing any developing.

Can get I Tiger early through the early upgrade thing (posted above)?

I'll get 20% off my Powerbook and I'll get any upgrades to the OS for a year? So when Tiger comes out, I'll get that for free even if I'm not an early upgrade member?

Famous Last words: How can I lose?

Epyon, the part about free Tiger is true, as well as you get Tiger Server. But I am not sure myself about the hardware discount with Student Developer - I think it is a once-only deal - can anyone find the relevant link to the Apple description?

As long as you are a student in a computer science related curriculum, you can get the $99 deal. I think you have to fax something in.

epyon · March 10, 2005 6:39PM

I checked the store and it looks like I get the base model 15" PB for $1600 as opposed to $2000. But from what I can gather I don't have to be a CompSci/CompEng major, just be enrolled in a university.

Quote:

How To Enroll

1. Sign up online with the Apple Developer Connection.

2. Identify yourself as a student in the Student Status* area of your Personal Profile and enter your student identification number and your school name. To be eligible for the ADC Student Membership, you must be currently enrolled as a part-time or full-time student at a college or university, have a student identification number, and be at least 18 years of age.

3. Purchase the ADC Student Membership Developer for US$99. Your benefits begin as soon as your purchase has cleared and your student status has been verified. Please allow up to four weeks for delivery of your first ADC Student Orientation Kit.

and

Quote:

2. How do I verify my student status so my ADC Student Membership can be activated?

The Apple Developer Connection must verify student status before we can fully activate an ADC Student membership. Once you have purchased the membership, please fax a copy of your picture ID (drivers license, passport, student ID, etc.) along with a current or upcoming course schedule or other official proof of enrollment from your college/ university to:

Attn: ADC Student Program

(North America) 1-408-974-7683

The developer store is located here:

http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html

Here is what concerns me:

Quote:

9. What is the once-per-lifetime student hardware discount?

ADC Student Members may be eligible to receive a once-per-lifetime discount on a single system to be used only for development purposes.

Used only for dev purposes? It also says that in the Hardware Purchase Agreement (an imposing legal document) located here.

But it appears that I won't be able to do the early Tiger upgrade program. For that you need to be a Select or Primier ADC member (as opposed to Student). I can't find anything guaranteeing all upgrades to the OS for a year (but I haven't gotten really intensive in my searching yet). Everything is really hard to find with this program. They certainly don't make this easy.

I'm still researching this obviously. It's not looking as possible now.

edit: Thanks for all the replies, guys. I appreciate it.

lundy · March 10, 2005 6:46PM

Quote:

Used only for dev purposes? It also says that in the Hardware Purchase Agreement (an imposing legal document) located here.

Trust me - you can ignore that part totally. As far as you are concerned, everything is development. I've been in the dev program for years and that is not an issue. You just can't resell the equipment for 12 months, I think.

buonrotto · March 10, 2005 6:51PM

I really don't recommend joining ADC even with student pricing if you're just trying to get your hands on Tiger early. There's a reason why Tiger isn't otherwise available to the public right now. Developer releases are way too buggy and potentially destructive to toy with. Trust me, you do not want to be running the current Tiger beta release that's out there right now. If you join ADC, make sure the other discounts make it worthwhile. If you come out even or behind after adding up the numbers, skip it. Tiger beta is not worth the cost unless you're making programs.

I think the most prudent suggestion is understanding to wait for a 10.4.x revision to come out to make sure you get the most robust OS you can.

Whether you can want the Powerbook now or later is a personal decision. It's probably dependent on whether you have your finances in order, and whether your current computer is really that inconvenient right now. I have a tendency to get a bit gadget-hungry every few months, but after doing some exhaustive research and letting my heels cool a bit, I usually make a more informed decision.

epyon · March 10, 2005 7:07PM

Getting Tiger early isn't that big a deal for me. It's getting a PB now and not having to pay for Tiger later that's appealing. That and saving $400 on the PB alone.

amorph · March 10, 2005 11:19PM

If your PC is acting up now, why put up with that for months? Buy the PB. Panther is a very nice OS, and Apple has said that after Tiger their system releases will slow down, so nobody will twist your arm and force you to spend $129 within months.

I'm one of those people who watches the point releases until the reports of problems quiet down, and I recommend that course of action. Since Tiger is a major release, it might take it a while to calm down. So use Panther until, say, August or even September and then upgrade.

Also, if you're in school, ask your school if they can sell you OS X. As a staff member I can get OS X from my University for $29. It's a plain old CD, and I'd have to download the developer tools, but it's not a bad way to save $100 without abusing the student developer program.

Also, go ahead and buy the MS mouse, but give the Apple mouse a whirl. It might take some getting used to, but you might find yourself liking it. It's the most comfortable mouse to use that I've ever laid hands on, just because you can click with your whole hand.

mcq · March 11, 2005 2:40AM

Epyon's reesarch is correct. Students do not get any prerelease Tiger seeds, period. The only way you get any Tiger previews as a student via ADC is

a) You buy the Tiger Early Start kit @ $500

b) You attended WWDC last summer, and received the initial release there. However, you don't get any seeds afterwards.

While I don't remember if Apple states it specifically, based on the last couple OS releases - student members should get a copy of Tiger in an ADC mailing sometime after general release (usually in the monthly mailing following release).

karl kuehn · March 11, 2005 8:46AM

Just to be pedantic, there are two other ways of getting the seed (legitimately):

c) Be a Premiere or Select member of ADC (lots of money)

d) Be a site chosen for the closed betas (places like Adobe.. sometimes universities)

Waiting for Tiger: Pros/Cons/Questions

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