i dont see a "real" powerbook coming in july or even WWDC, especially with tiger coming out mid april, announced beginning of april. i think at this "special apple event" well see new emacs and imacs that have 512 ram and maybe some minor upgrades in hd, gpu, and of course the speed bump. perhaps the powermacs will just get 512 ram standard but no big upgrade until WWDC or so. so then the entirely mid range to high end lines will have 512 ram and will work smoothly with tiger, leaving only the lower consumer models(iBook and mac mini) to wait until a Powerbook G5 or their next revision to have 512 standard.
as for the "real" powerbook statement, i just bought a 1.67 15 inch superdrive and last time i checked (right now as i type on it) it seems real to me...its performance is excellent for any business professional and anyone in the graphics field, so i just dont understand how much pure power one would need in a portable...with portables you sacrifice power...and consumers buy portables to have what they want...a portable...if you're really in the need for pure power, i would suggest waiting for the powermac upgrade or revision b of the powerbook g5...
Just for reference... apple did this exact thing with the powermac 2 years ago. They upgraded to dual 1.42 ... 3 months later announced the g5 powermac. So don't use a time constraint as justification.
Apple knows everyone is waiting for a powerbook g5. I believe that is the #1 thing hurting powerbook sales (these are the lowest PB sales ever). The #2 thing hurting powerbook sales is the powerbook specs are way too close to the iBook, why spend all that extra money on a powerbook when you almost get the exact same thing for 500-600 less.
On top of the reasons that powerbook sales are being hurt, ibook sales have potential to suffer as well in a few months. The iBooks don't have a tiger compatible graphics card, that is the only thing hardware wise that separates the iBook and Powerbook, IMO. If the iBook had a tiger compatible graphics card I wouldn't even question which one to buy. Apple is definitely going to want to upgrade the powerbook when tiger is released, else sales #s will drop when consumers realize it can't "fully" run tiger. It makes it extremely difficult to upgrade the iBooks when they are so close to the powerbook as it is. Thus needing to upgrade those powerbooks AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! (If apple follows upgrading the iBook as it has the last 4 years, then it will be upgraded in april).
These have to be some major concerns of apple! If they didn't have these concerns then their marketing strategies suck .
Just for reference... apple did this exact thing with the powermac 2 years ago. They upgraded to dual 1.42 ... 3 months later announced the g5 powermac. So don't use a time constraint as justification.
I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but with regards to the powermac, a quick look at apple-history.com seems to indicate that the dual 1.42 was released in January '03 followed by the G5 in June. That's six months.
Why is everyone screaming for a G5? Higher power consumption, and not much of a real powerboost in most real life applications...Personally, I'd much rather see an 8641D in the hight end 15 and 17 inch PB's, with the lower models getting a single core 8641, and the ibooks getting a 7448. Check out this link to see what I'm talking about:
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
...Personally, I'd much rather see an 8641D in the hight end 15 and 17 inch PB's, with the lower models getting a single core 8641, and the ibooks getting a 7448. Check out this link to see what I'm talking about:
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
Yeah, this has been discussed extensively here not long time ago. And for now, there are no options for Apple's portables other than the 7448 and 8641 single and dual core processors from Freescale. Especially the 8641D processor could easily compete not only with todays Dothans, but also with Yonah, the upcoming dual-core Dothan.
Unfortunately, there is nothing from the IBM side, officialy at least. The 970 family processors are not (and perhaps they never will be) suitable for mobile usage. However, I am curious to see more details about this PPE found in CELL architecture. It has Altivec, it is a 64-bit processor, and although things are not yet clear, it seems to be a low-power CPU.
I guess it would compare very favorably against a G4 (even the upcoming e600 from Freescale), epsecially since it is much higher clocked, and I have a feeling that it is perhaps the answer to the G5-mobile problem. Throw in a couple of SPEs and you have a really high-performance multimedia chip in a portable. This is actually what suggests the development paradigm that Apple follows with Core Image/Core Video (exploit any high-performance hardware resource found in the system: GPU, Altivec, multiple processors for now, and why not, CELL SPEs, particularly suitable for such tasks, tomorrow).
I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but with regards to the powermac, a quick look at apple-history.com seems to indicate that the dual 1.42 was released in January '03 followed by the G5 in June. That's six months.
Depends what site you go to... According to buyers guide at macrumors.com they were released in feb... but they actually didn't ship until march. But I suppose you can say that for the g5 as well.
Why is everyone screaming for a G5? Higher power consumption, and not much of a real powerboost in most real life applications...
Perhaps for future use? Tiger is going to be 64bit compatible... you WILL see performance gains there. Applications are going to move to 64bit eventually... as far as right now...t he need... is close to nil.
Perhaps for future use? Tiger is going to be 64bit compatible... you WILL see performance gains there. Applications are going to move to 64bit eventually... as far as right now...t he need... is close to nil.
There are no performance benefits for 64 bit apps. The only benefits for 64 bit apps will be 4+ GB addressable memory and native 64 bit integer math. Neither of which aren't exactly in high demand, yet. In Tiger, 64 bits apps will exist in the form of command line applications. For interacting with said apps, a user can use a 32 bit application that interfaces with the 64 bit app or the CLI itself. The performance payoff for G5 computers in Tiger will be in more G5 optimizations (as opposed to G4 optimizations) resulting in more performance.
Mac OS X will likely exist as a 32/64 bit hybrid for the rest of its life, with 32 bit apps being the majority.
Why is everyone screaming for a G5? Higher power consumption, and not much of a real powerboost in most real life applications...
The 8641D has a volume production schedule of 1H 06. Freescale could do well and start production in January of 06, but considering their history and current lack of 90 nm parts, closer to June of 06 is probably the reality. So, it could more than a year before the 8641D is in a shipping product.
The 970 and its derivatives are available now, or a laptop capale one is real soon now.
Quote:
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
For multithreaded applications, a 2 GHz 8641D will likely have about 60% more integer performance, the same floating point performance and about 60% more SIMD performance as a 2 GHz 970. For single threaded applications, it's will be about the same in integer, 50% less in floating point and the same in SIMD.
Why should we compare it to a Sony? This is a powerbook it's the Jesus Christ of laptops. It's the best you can get. Well not right now it isn't. Powerbooks have always been known for desktop performance in a mobile package, shoved into a case that you just can't believe contains all this power. Does it feel like that now? No. The screen blows. the speeds sucks, the board is outdated. It's 2 year old design.
Powerbook sales suck for a reason, not because we need a g5, but because we can't justify buying new mini speed bumps. Sorry but I bought a powerbook 3 years ago. And I'm sure as hell not going to buy another one right this second until Apple gets something impressive again. Remember when your jaw dropped in awe at the newly released powerbook? That hasn't happened in forever.
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
Your comparison is between a laptop and a portable desktop. You should compare the PowerBook to something like a Sony Vaio laptop with a Centrino M-type processor. (This comparison may not make the Apple look so good either.) 7200RPM drives are real hot power hogs, and two of them will consume power like mad.
Furthermore, I have seen Powerbooks run for over 4 hours on battery. I have seen PC laptops that claimed 2 hours go black in less than one. Anyone who takes manufacturer specs (including Apple's) on battery life as fact is heading for disappointment. Everything depends on what you run.
We have to keep in mind that it took the better part of 2 years
for any Wintel laptop to surpass any qualities now missing from
the Powerbooks, but they still don't offer the stability and security
of OSX.
PowerBooks still account for 48% of Apple computer sales.
Although the wait may be frustrating, I'm reasonably sure
that Apple will delight us with their next offering.
Powerbooks DO NOT account for 48 of apple's total sales...
The powerbook is the worst selling prodcut from apple right now. Maybe you meant 48% of total laptop sales... but then are you talking about money grossed or actual total numbers? The money grossed... maybe but total numbers are way off.
Just wait for quarter 2 results in April. The Poewrbook will have sold more than the iBook, since the Pbook was updated.
The iBook started beating Powerbook in the past two corners, for the Powerbook had not been updated, and the last quarter was Christmas season, where consumers buy consumer machines.
Comments
as for the "real" powerbook statement, i just bought a 1.67 15 inch superdrive and last time i checked (right now as i type on it) it seems real to me...its performance is excellent for any business professional and anyone in the graphics field, so i just dont understand how much pure power one would need in a portable...with portables you sacrifice power...and consumers buy portables to have what they want...a portable...if you're really in the need for pure power, i would suggest waiting for the powermac upgrade or revision b of the powerbook g5...
oh yes...my guess is PowerBook G5 at Paris Expo.
Apple knows everyone is waiting for a powerbook g5. I believe that is the #1 thing hurting powerbook sales (these are the lowest PB sales ever). The #2 thing hurting powerbook sales is the powerbook specs are way too close to the iBook, why spend all that extra money on a powerbook when you almost get the exact same thing for 500-600 less.
On top of the reasons that powerbook sales are being hurt, ibook sales have potential to suffer as well in a few months. The iBooks don't have a tiger compatible graphics card, that is the only thing hardware wise that separates the iBook and Powerbook, IMO. If the iBook had a tiger compatible graphics card I wouldn't even question which one to buy. Apple is definitely going to want to upgrade the powerbook when tiger is released, else sales #s will drop when consumers realize it can't "fully" run tiger. It makes it extremely difficult to upgrade the iBooks when they are so close to the powerbook as it is. Thus needing to upgrade those powerbooks AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! (If apple follows upgrading the iBook as it has the last 4 years, then it will be upgraded in april).
These have to be some major concerns of apple! If they didn't have these concerns then their marketing strategies suck
Originally posted by emig647
Just for reference... apple did this exact thing with the powermac 2 years ago. They upgraded to dual 1.42 ... 3 months later announced the g5 powermac. So don't use a time constraint as justification.
I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but with regards to the powermac, a quick look at apple-history.com seems to indicate that the dual 1.42 was released in January '03 followed by the G5 in June. That's six months.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
Originally posted by Alcibiades
...Personally, I'd much rather see an 8641D in the hight end 15 and 17 inch PB's, with the lower models getting a single core 8641, and the ibooks getting a 7448. Check out this link to see what I'm talking about:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
Yeah, this has been discussed extensively here not long time ago. And for now, there are no options for Apple's portables other than the 7448 and 8641 single and dual core processors from Freescale. Especially the 8641D processor could easily compete not only with todays Dothans, but also with Yonah, the upcoming dual-core Dothan.
Unfortunately, there is nothing from the IBM side, officialy at least. The 970 family processors are not (and perhaps they never will be) suitable for mobile usage. However, I am curious to see more details about this PPE found in CELL architecture. It has Altivec, it is a 64-bit processor, and although things are not yet clear, it seems to be a low-power CPU.
I guess it would compare very favorably against a G4 (even the upcoming e600 from Freescale), epsecially since it is much higher clocked, and I have a feeling that it is perhaps the answer to the G5-mobile problem. Throw in a couple of SPEs and you have a really high-performance multimedia chip in a portable. This is actually what suggests the development paradigm that Apple follows with Core Image/Core Video (exploit any high-performance hardware resource found in the system: GPU, Altivec, multiple processors for now, and why not, CELL SPEs, particularly suitable for such tasks, tomorrow).
Originally posted by Flounder
I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but with regards to the powermac, a quick look at apple-history.com seems to indicate that the dual 1.42 was released in January '03 followed by the G5 in June. That's six months.
Depends what site you go to... According to buyers guide at macrumors.com they were released in feb... but they actually didn't ship until march. But I suppose you can say that for the g5 as well.
Originally posted by Alcibiades
Why is everyone screaming for a G5? Higher power consumption, and not much of a real powerboost in most real life applications...
Perhaps for future use? Tiger is going to be 64bit compatible... you WILL see performance gains there. Applications are going to move to 64bit eventually... as far as right now...t he need... is close to nil.
about PCI-e coming to laptops.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03...card/index.php
Originally posted by emig647
Perhaps for future use? Tiger is going to be 64bit compatible... you WILL see performance gains there. Applications are going to move to 64bit eventually... as far as right now...t he need... is close to nil.
There are no performance benefits for 64 bit apps. The only benefits for 64 bit apps will be 4+ GB addressable memory and native 64 bit integer math. Neither of which aren't exactly in high demand, yet. In Tiger, 64 bits apps will exist in the form of command line applications. For interacting with said apps, a user can use a 32 bit application that interfaces with the 64 bit app or the CLI itself. The performance payoff for G5 computers in Tiger will be in more G5 optimizations (as opposed to G4 optimizations) resulting in more performance.
Mac OS X will likely exist as a 32/64 bit hybrid for the rest of its life, with 32 bit apps being the majority.
Originally posted by Alcibiades
Why is everyone screaming for a G5? Higher power consumption, and not much of a real powerboost in most real life applications...
The 8641D has a volume production schedule of 1H 06. Freescale could do well and start production in January of 06, but considering their history and current lack of 90 nm parts, closer to June of 06 is probably the reality. So, it could more than a year before the 8641D is in a shipping product.
The 970 and its derivatives are available now, or a laptop capale one is real soon now.
Nominal power usage, high performance, upgraded bus, dual core G4 processor, support for DDR2 memory. It would be perfect for a high end powerbook, much more so than just craming a G5 in there IMO. This chip would demolish a G5 is any real life app....
For multithreaded applications, a 2 GHz 8641D will likely have about 60% more integer performance, the same floating point performance and about 60% more SIMD performance as a 2 GHz 970. For single threaded applications, it's will be about the same in integer, 50% less in floating point and the same in SIMD.
Originally posted by THT
Mac OS X will likely exist as a 32/64 bit hybrid for the rest of its life, with 32 bit apps being the majority.
Maybe / Maybe not. Eventually it will be much easier to write a pure 64bit system than to keep optimizing the hybrid.
Originally posted by emig647
Maybe / Maybe not. Eventually it will be much easier to write a pure 64bit system than to keep optimizing the hybrid.
That would be Mac OS XI
Powerbook sales suck for a reason, not because we need a g5, but because we can't justify buying new mini speed bumps. Sorry but I bought a powerbook 3 years ago. And I'm sure as hell not going to buy another one right this second until Apple gets something impressive again. Remember when your jaw dropped in awe at the newly released powerbook? That hasn't happened in forever.
Originally posted by cubist
Your comparison is between a laptop and a portable desktop. You should compare the PowerBook to something like a Sony Vaio laptop with a Centrino M-type processor. (This comparison may not make the Apple look so good either.) 7200RPM drives are real hot power hogs, and two of them will consume power like mad.
Furthermore, I have seen Powerbooks run for over 4 hours on battery. I have seen PC laptops that claimed 2 hours go black in less than one. Anyone who takes manufacturer specs (including Apple's) on battery life as fact is heading for disappointment. Everything depends on what you run.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
I just caught this article at Macworld
about PCI-e coming to laptops.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03...card/index.php
for any Wintel laptop to surpass any qualities now missing from
the Powerbooks, but they still don't offer the stability and security
of OSX.
PowerBooks still account for 48% of Apple computer sales.
Although the wait may be frustrating, I'm reasonably sure
that Apple will delight us with their next offering.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
We have to keep in mind that it took the better part of 2 years
for any Wintel laptop to surpass any qualities now missing from
the Powerbooks, but they still don't offer the stability and security
of OSX.
PowerBooks still account for 48% of Apple computer sales.
Although the wait may be frustrating, I'm reasonably sure
that Apple will delight us with their next offering.
Powerbooks DO NOT account for 48 of apple's total sales...
The powerbook is the worst selling prodcut from apple right now. Maybe you meant 48% of total laptop sales... but then are you talking about money grossed or actual total numbers? The money grossed... maybe but total numbers are way off.
2004 quarter 4 - Results
2005 #s
The iBook started beating Powerbook in the past two corners, for the Powerbook had not been updated, and the last quarter was Christmas season, where consumers buy consumer machines.
Either way, the pb has never accounted for 48% of apple's total sales.