Didn't Apple assist Motorola in the actual design of this phone? I thought I had read that somewhere.. anyways if they did I would expect some of Apple's famous ease-of-use features even added to your basic phone features.. Nobody has seen it yet and if it was just like all these other music phones that Motorola is putting out why go through all the trouble to keep it so secret? Sure its not shipping for awhile.. but if there was nothing proprietary on it and nothing different from the other phones why delay announcement? Also why show a simple generic phone with the iTunes software and then vehemntly deny that was the iTunes phone? I mean after all if there is no design difference then all iTunes is is a software program. There has to be something special about this phone that will drive consumers to it in addition to it being able to hold music.
In my opinion I think the Apple/Motorola phone is just a beta test for Apple to see how market/carriers would react.
Remember, Apple makes the big money from the iPod, not iTunes. So in reality, I am sure that Apple doesn't want to see motorola run away with the iTuens phone, I am sure apple will launch the iPod Phone. That way, customers still have the buy the product Apple makes the most money on. Even if Apple loses a couple of cents on each song to the carrier, they are still making up for it on the iPod phone hardware.
Apples pitch will always be to upsell existing iPod customers on new iPods. So they strike a deal with a carrier saying they will help market the phone which will help the carrier draw customers. 10Million potential customers a year is substantial, especially since they are bringing that in each 6 months with new sales. Not to mention upsells from existing base.
I am sure that Apple can work a deal as an MVNO or MVNE. They could be their own cell carrier. If customers are willing to Pay 500 for an iPod Photo, I am sure they would pay the same for the iPod Photo/Video/Phone. Apple would have to throw those extras in because Samsung and everyone else's 3G phone will have those functions too.
Between the iPod Photo/Video/Phone and the Mac Mini, Apple has an extremely compelling lineup to attract new customers as well as renew purchases from their base.
It has to be T-Mobile. They buy off the shelf everything. They would rather pay a premium for support services than hire a team to custom develop, internally, their solutions.
If anyone of you has friends/colleagues at T-Mobile they understand what I just wrote.
Only problem is currently their infrastructure is devoid of OS X Servers/XServe (There recent purchases of more Linux gear on HP and SUN Boxes either puts them into deploying QuickTime backends on RedHat Enterprise or they actually get off their asses and purchase the equipment Apple specs for this solution.
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Most major wireless companies, including Verizon Wireless and Sprint, have reportedly balked at carrying the iTunes phone Apple has been codeveloping with Motorola.
According to an international cover story in the April 25th edition of Business Week, the cell phone carriers, along with Cingular/ATT, have very different perspectives on how digital music stores should work and are expected to charge between $2 and $3 for wireless music downloads when they introduce their services.
"They figure they can charge a premium for the convenience of getting songs anytime, even though customers most likely won't be able to listen to those songs anywhere but on their phones, at least initially," wrote Business Week's Roger Crockett. He cites a source close to Apple who says wireless operators are "simply being unrealistic" if they expect customers to pay $2 or $3 for a song, especially with restrictions.
Instead the operators want customers to download songs over the air, directly to handsets. But the iTunes phone would allow customers to download songs to a PC or Mac and then copy them to the phone. "It's hard for people in any industry to support something that cuts them out of potential future revenue streams," said Graeme Ferguson, director for global content development at Vodafone Group PLC.
Still, Motorola told Business Week it expects at least one carrier will begin selling the iTunes phone this summer. With Verizon, Sprint and Cingular protesting Apple's distribution model, the remaining US-based major wireless carriers include Nextel and T-Mobile. Of the two, insiders believe the latter is the most likely candidate to adopt the phone and drive its customers to iTunes rather than build its own music store.
But is this an immediate concern for Apple? It could be. According to the article, the telecom approach has several strengths Apple can't match. "For starters, a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date. Most of those cell-phone toters pay a monthly phone bill, making it a snap to add a music charge. Perhaps most important, wireless technology could provide access anytime, anywhere to millions of songs."
Research firm Strategy Analytics estimates that in 2008 half of the 860 million cell phones sold will be able to store and play songs, compared to about 8% today.
Already technological advances in storage, compression, battery life, and wireless networks are making it easier to receive and store high-quality music on phones. The Business Week article notes that Korea's Samsung Electronics just introduced a phone with a 3-gigabyte hard drive, enough to store 1,000 songs, and says a 10GB phone could hit the market "within two years."
Meanwhile, International wireless operators are already providing a sense of what's possible at the edge of the digital music frontier. Says Crockett, "Korea's SK Telecom Co. offers a $5 a month music subscription that allows customers to download any of 700,000 songs to a phone, PC, or music player. That makes the subscription much more convenient than similar services in the U.S. because Korean customers can get any song they want, wherever and whenever they want it." Since its launch in November, a reported 300,000 people have signed up. "We are not yet making money, but we see a big potential for profits from music," said Shin Won Soo, a senior manager in charge of SK Telecom's music business. His company is expected to exit the red by the time it hits 800,000 subscribers. "That conjures up the possibility that with music phones, consumers around the world could opt to pay a monthly fee for all the new music they desire, rather than buying individual CDs when they debut."
Wireless operators in the US have to look no further than ringtones to know the proof is in the pudding. According to Business Week, these song snippets which go for $1 to $3 per download have evolved into a $5.8 billion business that is expected to reach $9.4 billion in 2008.
"Because [wireless companies] bill mobile customers each month, they wouldn't have to pay credit-card charges to Visa or MasterCard. That's not much of an edge over iTunes when customers buy a $9.99 album," wrote Crockett. "But if they buy single songs for 99 cents at iTunes, the fees total a significant 17 cents to 20 cents. Bottom line: Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint could end up lowering their prices to $1 a song and still make more profit than Apple does." [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
It has to be T-Mobile. They buy off the shelf everything. They would rather pay a premium for support services than hire a team to custom develop, internally, their solutions.
If anyone of you has friends/colleagues at T-Mobile they understand what I just wrote.
My bet is T-Moble as well. There already exists a relationship with .Mac and T-Mobile Hot spots. I bet this is it.
I hope Tmobile jumps onboard with this phone and does it fast... My contract is just about up with them and I would love to upgrade to a nice iTunes phone
Id say they have the best service for the price at least where I live anyway. For $58 a month and a 1 year contract I have a free nokia 3650 without bluetooth (or any other feature for that matter) disabled, unlimited gprs data transfer + email access, 1000 text messages, 600 minutes with free nights and weekends, and equipment protection ($35 and I get a new phone even if I just got tired of it and threw it in a lake )
Id love to add a phone that doesnt freeze up constantly or for some reason likes to believe my bluetooth headset isnt there to my life.
Target Market: Can I buy a song on my cell phone mom?
Mom: Don't you already buy music for your iPod? How much is it?
Target Market: $3/song.
Mom: Aboslutely not. Buy it for your iPod.
...
Target Market: Can I buy a song for my cell phone?
Mom: Don't you already buy music for your iPod?
Target Market: Yeah, I can buy i through iTunes and put it on my cell phone after I download it.
Mom: Can you put it on your iPod too?
Target Market: Yep.
Mom: Go ahead!
...
Or, if you can't get the cell phone companies to budge, you say "$0.99 a song+$0.15 cellphone transfer fee" and then either the users digital rights allow them to put the song on the cellphone. OR you can charge like $0.29 instead of $0.15 and have the carriers satalite send the song automatically to the cell phone. Get the wow factor, and not have to scrape out much more overhead while paying off the cell phone companies. This way they could also charge air time fees for the transfer and include it in the regular bill.
70% marketshare folks. It took the record companies awhile to get on board; nothing new here.
It's more flexible because you can play the song from the PC/Mac, iPod and phone, not just the phone as the carriers are suggesting. Also if it's an Apple solution it'll be like the iPod and extremely easy to use, probably by USB and BlueTooth. The iPods success is it's ease of use, that's what people want, not an expensive, limited option. I know what I'd choose, and most people, I'm sure would agree.
No, most wouldn't. That's the point. Only apple fans would and apple fans are less than 5% of the computer market. Imagine their percentage in the cell market. Probably less than 2%. 2% of people upset they can't get an itunes phone does not scare the carriers.
Quote:
$3 for a song played only on your phone - if phone's lost so is the song
0.99¢ for a song playable on your Mac/PC, iPod and phone - if the phone's lost it was on the computer and vice versa.
I think it's a clear choice. Also in the UK carriers charge for the download a swell a 4MB song would cost around £10 because they charge £2.35 per MB.
Yeah, the choice is clear alright. The choice is whatever the carriers decide to offer. Also, i'm sure you'll be able to redownload your songs if phone is lost or you change phones. Just becauase itunes does not allow redownloads doesn't mean no one else will. Stop looking at this through itunes glasses. The business model will be different and the execution will be different.
No, most wouldn't. That's the point. Only apple fans would and apple fans are less than 5% of the computer market. Imagine their percentage in the cell market. Probably less than 2%. 2% of people upset they can't get an itunes phone does not scare the carriers.
I didn't say iTunes phone I was referring to any solution that worked with your downloads, for example Sony. Sony's phones are getting MP3 features which would give them a good market position, people buy a Sony MP3 player and then a phone and can buy music for both. Much better than a more expensive solution that only works on the phone. Obviously Apple are doing this as well. I just think if consumers have the choice they'll go for the cheaper, easier option (also faster as broadband beats phone downloads).
Also in response to someone else, the iTunes phone will be announced when it's ready, that's how Apple works, I just don't know how successful that will be because phones in the UK are announced quite a bit in advance.
And in addition if 70% use an iPod that's a lot of people buying music for their iPod using iTMS (no, not all do). These consumes will want a phone that will play their music, they don't want to buy it again.
Maybe I'm a minority, but my cell phone is paid monthly automatically off my credit card.
Yes you are. I pay using online bill payment. I find it convenient and am shocked that people still lick stamps and send in payments but you'd be amazed. No one (and i mean no one) of my family or friends use online bill payment or credit cards to pay their bills. They all still lick the stamp.
So yeah, the statement that verizon doesn't have to pay credit card fees is pretty much valid, for the most part.
If only techies were a greater percentage of the population, we'd effect behavior. Unfortunately, we are still a minority.
Why do you think microsoft still dominates even though apple makes better software?. I know, you probably are frustrated that people don't see the light. Almost makes you want to slap them in the face and ask them to wake up but it's a reality of life. This is why the carriers will succeed in selling songs for 3 bucks. Everone in this forum will rant and rave about the carriers being stupid and no one will buy a song for 3 bucks and then 8 months later, verizon introduces a service to allow you to buy a song for 3 bucks and its an overnight success and then people in another forum just like this one will rant and rave about how stupid and what idiots customers are and only about 5% of the US population will ever read the forum and even if one of the stupid people read this forum, they wouldn't care about it and apple fans will go on ranting and raving about how they cannot understand why apple has 0% of the music download for cell phones while the cell phones have crappy interfaces, etc, etc and the regular lemmings could care less and wouldn't even give a shit for your opinion. But it will feel so good to rant and rave about how stupid the rest of them are. Just like how we rave and rant about windows users.
Does someone, anyone out there make a phone that not only plays music and takes pictures, but, say, lets me upload all the music I like (at least that will fit in the phone's memory) without a per song charges, and download my pictures via USB as much as I care to, without any per picture charges?
If so, are US cellular companies obligated to let you sign up with any such phone, as long as it matches their network protocols, or can they just say, "Sorry. You buy one of our locked phones where we limit your flexibility and microcharge you for every little thing, or you don't use our service at all."?
That's what I mean. Whose your cellular carrier, and what kind of plans do they have for BYOP (Bring Your Own Phone) customers?
In the UK no carriers charge for services which don't use their network. You get a free phone (or cheap one depending on your network) and then pay a monthly amount depending on your minutes/txt allocation. Pay as you go also gives you free features and then you top-up with bought cards. Pay as you go customers pay a lot more for their phones. I got a S700i for £30 on a £20 monthly contract. I get 1000 minutes free at weekends and evenings (to the same network) and 500 texts plus 1MB of GPRS.
If you bring your own phone you can join their network as normal either with a £10 SIM card (for PAYG) or for free with a monthly contract.
Once your contract is up on a pay monthly phone you can unblock it.
Comments
Remember, Apple makes the big money from the iPod, not iTunes. So in reality, I am sure that Apple doesn't want to see motorola run away with the iTuens phone, I am sure apple will launch the iPod Phone. That way, customers still have the buy the product Apple makes the most money on. Even if Apple loses a couple of cents on each song to the carrier, they are still making up for it on the iPod phone hardware.
Apples pitch will always be to upsell existing iPod customers on new iPods. So they strike a deal with a carrier saying they will help market the phone which will help the carrier draw customers. 10Million potential customers a year is substantial, especially since they are bringing that in each 6 months with new sales. Not to mention upsells from existing base.
I am sure that Apple can work a deal as an MVNO or MVNE. They could be their own cell carrier. If customers are willing to Pay 500 for an iPod Photo, I am sure they would pay the same for the iPod Photo/Video/Phone. Apple would have to throw those extras in because Samsung and everyone else's 3G phone will have those functions too.
Between the iPod Photo/Video/Phone and the Mac Mini, Apple has an extremely compelling lineup to attract new customers as well as renew purchases from their base.
My music is organized neatly and conveniently on my computer, from which I can send it to the peripheral hardware items where I want it to be.
So, if Verizon, Cingular et al. refuse the iTunes phone and future iterations, then I will say...
"See you later Verizon and Cingular. HELLOOOO T-MOBILE. I AM COMING ABOARD WITH MY MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION!"
If anyone of you has friends/colleagues at T-Mobile they understand what I just wrote.
Only problem is currently their infrastructure is devoid of OS X Servers/XServe (There recent purchases of more Linux gear on HP and SUN Boxes either puts them into deploying QuickTime backends on RedHat Enterprise or they actually get off their asses and purchase the equipment Apple specs for this solution.
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Most major wireless companies, including Verizon Wireless and Sprint, have reportedly balked at carrying the iTunes phone Apple has been codeveloping with Motorola.
According to an international cover story in the April 25th edition of Business Week, the cell phone carriers, along with Cingular/ATT, have very different perspectives on how digital music stores should work and are expected to charge between $2 and $3 for wireless music downloads when they introduce their services.
"They figure they can charge a premium for the convenience of getting songs anytime, even though customers most likely won't be able to listen to those songs anywhere but on their phones, at least initially," wrote Business Week's Roger Crockett. He cites a source close to Apple who says wireless operators are "simply being unrealistic" if they expect customers to pay $2 or $3 for a song, especially with restrictions.
Instead the operators want customers to download songs over the air, directly to handsets. But the iTunes phone would allow customers to download songs to a PC or Mac and then copy them to the phone. "It's hard for people in any industry to support something that cuts them out of potential future revenue streams," said Graeme Ferguson, director for global content development at Vodafone Group PLC.
Still, Motorola told Business Week it expects at least one carrier will begin selling the iTunes phone this summer. With Verizon, Sprint and Cingular protesting Apple's distribution model, the remaining US-based major wireless carriers include Nextel and T-Mobile. Of the two, insiders believe the latter is the most likely candidate to adopt the phone and drive its customers to iTunes rather than build its own music store.
But is this an immediate concern for Apple? It could be. According to the article, the telecom approach has several strengths Apple can't match. "For starters, a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date. Most of those cell-phone toters pay a monthly phone bill, making it a snap to add a music charge. Perhaps most important, wireless technology could provide access anytime, anywhere to millions of songs."
Research firm Strategy Analytics estimates that in 2008 half of the 860 million cell phones sold will be able to store and play songs, compared to about 8% today.
Already technological advances in storage, compression, battery life, and wireless networks are making it easier to receive and store high-quality music on phones. The Business Week article notes that Korea's Samsung Electronics just introduced a phone with a 3-gigabyte hard drive, enough to store 1,000 songs, and says a 10GB phone could hit the market "within two years."
Meanwhile, International wireless operators are already providing a sense of what's possible at the edge of the digital music frontier. Says Crockett, "Korea's SK Telecom Co. offers a $5 a month music subscription that allows customers to download any of 700,000 songs to a phone, PC, or music player. That makes the subscription much more convenient than similar services in the U.S. because Korean customers can get any song they want, wherever and whenever they want it." Since its launch in November, a reported 300,000 people have signed up. "We are not yet making money, but we see a big potential for profits from music," said Shin Won Soo, a senior manager in charge of SK Telecom's music business. His company is expected to exit the red by the time it hits 800,000 subscribers. "That conjures up the possibility that with music phones, consumers around the world could opt to pay a monthly fee for all the new music they desire, rather than buying individual CDs when they debut."
Wireless operators in the US have to look no further than ringtones to know the proof is in the pudding. According to Business Week, these song snippets which go for $1 to $3 per download have evolved into a $5.8 billion business that is expected to reach $9.4 billion in 2008.
"Because [wireless companies] bill mobile customers each month, they wouldn't have to pay credit-card charges to Visa or MasterCard. That's not much of an edge over iTunes when customers buy a $9.99 album," wrote Crockett. "But if they buy single songs for 99 cents at iTunes, the fees total a significant 17 cents to 20 cents. Bottom line: Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint could end up lowering their prices to $1 a song and still make more profit than Apple does."
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
It has to be T-Mobile. They buy off the shelf everything. They would rather pay a premium for support services than hire a team to custom develop, internally, their solutions.
If anyone of you has friends/colleagues at T-Mobile they understand what I just wrote.
My bet is T-Moble as well. There already exists a relationship with .Mac and T-Mobile Hot spots. I bet this is it.
Id say they have the best service for the price at least where I live anyway. For $58 a month and a 1 year contract I have a free nokia 3650 without bluetooth (or any other feature for that matter) disabled, unlimited gprs data transfer + email access, 1000 text messages, 600 minutes with free nights and weekends, and equipment protection ($35 and I get a new phone even if I just got tired of it and threw it in a lake
Id love to add a phone that doesnt freeze up constantly or for some reason likes to believe my bluetooth headset isnt there to my life.
Mom: Don't you already buy music for your iPod? How much is it?
Target Market: $3/song.
Mom: Aboslutely not. Buy it for your iPod.
...
Target Market: Can I buy a song for my cell phone?
Mom: Don't you already buy music for your iPod?
Target Market: Yeah, I can buy i through iTunes and put it on my cell phone after I download it.
Mom: Can you put it on your iPod too?
Target Market: Yep.
Mom: Go ahead!
...
Or, if you can't get the cell phone companies to budge, you say "$0.99 a song+$0.15 cellphone transfer fee" and then either the users digital rights allow them to put the song on the cellphone. OR you can charge like $0.29 instead of $0.15 and have the carriers satalite send the song automatically to the cell phone. Get the wow factor, and not have to scrape out much more overhead while paying off the cell phone companies. This way they could also charge air time fees for the transfer and include it in the regular bill.
70% marketshare folks. It took the record companies awhile to get on board; nothing new here.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
It's more flexible because you can play the song from the PC/Mac, iPod and phone, not just the phone as the carriers are suggesting. Also if it's an Apple solution it'll be like the iPod and extremely easy to use, probably by USB and BlueTooth. The iPods success is it's ease of use, that's what people want, not an expensive, limited option. I know what I'd choose, and most people, I'm sure would agree.
No, most wouldn't. That's the point. Only apple fans would and apple fans are less than 5% of the computer market. Imagine their percentage in the cell market. Probably less than 2%. 2% of people upset they can't get an itunes phone does not scare the carriers.
$3 for a song played only on your phone - if phone's lost so is the song
0.99¢ for a song playable on your Mac/PC, iPod and phone - if the phone's lost it was on the computer and vice versa.
I think it's a clear choice. Also in the UK carriers charge for the download a swell a 4MB song would cost around £10 because they charge £2.35 per MB.
Yeah, the choice is clear alright. The choice is whatever the carriers decide to offer. Also, i'm sure you'll be able to redownload your songs if phone is lost or you change phones. Just becauase itunes does not allow redownloads doesn't mean no one else will. Stop looking at this through itunes glasses. The business model will be different and the execution will be different.
Originally posted by wnurse
No, most wouldn't. That's the point. Only apple fans would and apple fans are less than 5% of the computer market. Imagine their percentage in the cell market. Probably less than 2%. 2% of people upset they can't get an itunes phone does not scare the carriers.
I didn't say iTunes phone I was referring to any solution that worked with your downloads, for example Sony. Sony's phones are getting MP3 features which would give them a good market position, people buy a Sony MP3 player and then a phone and can buy music for both. Much better than a more expensive solution that only works on the phone. Obviously Apple are doing this as well. I just think if consumers have the choice they'll go for the cheaper, easier option (also faster as broadband beats phone downloads).
Also in response to someone else, the iTunes phone will be announced when it's ready, that's how Apple works, I just don't know how successful that will be because phones in the UK are announced quite a bit in advance.
And in addition if 70% use an iPod that's a lot of people buying music for their iPod using iTMS (no, not all do). These consumes will want a phone that will play their music, they don't want to buy it again.
Originally posted by Louzer
Maybe I'm a minority, but my cell phone is paid monthly automatically off my credit card.
Yes you are. I pay using online bill payment. I find it convenient and am shocked that people still lick stamps and send in payments but you'd be amazed. No one (and i mean no one) of my family or friends use online bill payment or credit cards to pay their bills. They all still lick the stamp.
So yeah, the statement that verizon doesn't have to pay credit card fees is pretty much valid, for the most part.
If only techies were a greater percentage of the population, we'd effect behavior. Unfortunately, we are still a minority.
Why do you think microsoft still dominates even though apple makes better software?. I know, you probably are frustrated that people don't see the light. Almost makes you want to slap them in the face and ask them to wake up but it's a reality of life. This is why the carriers will succeed in selling songs for 3 bucks. Everone in this forum will rant and rave about the carriers being stupid and no one will buy a song for 3 bucks and then 8 months later, verizon introduces a service to allow you to buy a song for 3 bucks and its an overnight success and then people in another forum just like this one will rant and rave about how stupid and what idiots customers are and only about 5% of the US population will ever read the forum and even if one of the stupid people read this forum, they wouldn't care about it and apple fans will go on ranting and raving about how they cannot understand why apple has 0% of the music download for cell phones while the cell phones have crappy interfaces, etc, etc and the regular lemmings could care less and wouldn't even give a shit for your opinion. But it will feel so good to rant and rave about how stupid the rest of them are. Just like how we rave and rant about windows users.
Oh and I buy my phones unlocked as well.
I had no idea that this was even an option.
Does someone, anyone out there make a phone that not only plays music and takes pictures, but, say, lets me upload all the music I like (at least that will fit in the phone's memory) without a per song charges, and download my pictures via USB as much as I care to, without any per picture charges?
If so, are US cellular companies obligated to let you sign up with any such phone, as long as it matches their network protocols, or can they just say, "Sorry. You buy one of our locked phones where we limit your flexibility and microcharge you for every little thing, or you don't use our service at all."?
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I have a S700i and I transfer pictures, movies and sounds to and from it via BlueTooth with no charge. Is that what you mean?
That's what I mean. Whose your cellular carrier, and what kind of plans do they have for BYOP (Bring Your Own Phone) customers?
Originally posted by shetline
That's what I mean. Whose your cellular carrier, and what kind of plans do they have for BYOP (Bring Your Own Phone) customers?
In the UK no carriers charge for services which don't use their network. You get a free phone (or cheap one depending on your network) and then pay a monthly amount depending on your minutes/txt allocation. Pay as you go also gives you free features and then you top-up with bought cards. Pay as you go customers pay a lot more for their phones. I got a S700i for £30 on a £20 monthly contract. I get 1000 minutes free at weekends and evenings (to the same network) and 500 texts plus 1MB of GPRS.
If you bring your own phone you can join their network as normal either with a £10 SIM card (for PAYG) or for free with a monthly contract.
Once your contract is up on a pay monthly phone you can unblock it.
Does that answer your question?
[i]Does that answer your question?[/B]
Sort of... but not in any practical way since I live in the US and not in the UK.
So... do any US carriers support Bring Your Own Phone service?
Originally posted by shetline
Sort of... but not in any practical way since I live in the US and not in the UK.
So... do any US carriers support Bring Your Own Phone service?
I've got no idea - I assumed the two were the same/similar.