970MP will cost far less then those OPterons, because Opterons are server processor. It's like intel Itaniums and regular P4, the difference is huge in price. itanium: http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020614S0022 while dual core P4 are just 250$ see tomshardware.
I pray that you are right, but with how the G5 has been going I really dont know. What makes you say so confidently that TS will be wrong on this revision?
I'm not saying that they are wrong. I'm saying that you believe a rumor at your peril. A rumors site will only have a reliable source for so long (because Apple likely tries to squash leakers as much as possible), and I think TS's reliable sources will dry up this year, if they haven't dried up since the lawsuit.
If Apple finds out who the leakers to TS are, they are in for some serious legal problems incuding some serious monetary damages let alone unemployment. We here think it is fun, but there are serious consequences for people who have breached their contracts. If it becomes widely known to other companies that they have breached contracts, they may not even get a job in the business anymore. The leakers to TS are in peril, and I would not want to be them right now because Apple legal is in hunting for them.
Nice one, Apple. While your software division is making products who fuel the need for faster hardware, your hardware division has been making...nothing, apparently. Seriously, 200Mhz?
... It says the dual-core Opteron 865 processor will cost $1,514, which happens to be the price of a single-core Opteron 852. The 870 will cost $2,149 and the 875 $2,649, the site says it was told. We ...
I saw those too, and was aghast. Yields must be terrible.
If the 970MP costs are comparable, maybe Apple will just add a dual-dual to the top of the line, at a price of around $5000. Been a long time since we've seen a Mac in that stratospheric range...
I suspect most of us who anticipated a 970MP in the next Power Mac update are disappointed. It would have been nice for Macs to be first with dual cores. Yet, there may be a bright side. Apple may have changed their plans somewhere along the way, and we may ultimately be happier with the result. At least that is what I'm hoping.
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz. I began to speculate that water cooled Power Macs may have been designed to handle a lot more heat than they presently do. The idea would be to have Power Macs ready to take a high wattage dual core CPU. What makes this seem plausible is that the Xserve got dual 2.3 GHz 970FX chips about the same time, and these are air cooled despite their smaller volume and more densely packed parts.
Somewhere along the way, Apple may have had second thoughts about this plan to use water cooling. Also the the news coming from IBM may have provided hope for a breakthrough in power dissipation. So, we may have to wait a while longer, but the end result may be a better design, both in the chips and hardware.
IBM readies dual core G5 for faster speeds 11:11AM
IBM is reported to be preparing a dual core version of the PowerPC 970 processor, more commonly known as the G5.
eWeek reports that the 970MP will comprise two processing units per chip, each with its own Level 1 cache and storage subsystems including a Level 2 cache. The total amount of cache will be four times greater than is currently available in the dual processor Power Macs.
eWeek says that according to its sources at IBM the dual core 'is intended to expand the PowerPC's top frequency capabilities'. Currently the chip has a top speed of 2.5GHz, still some way behind the fastest Intel Pentiums (the Pentium 4 EE, for example, clocks 3.4GHz).
Longer pipelining will also allow for higher speeds, though the benefits of shorter pipelining will be retained by implementing 'instruction cracking' to split certain commands into simpler operations and distribute then between the cores.
... IBM is reported to be preparing a dual core version of the PowerPC 970 processor, more commonly known as the G5.
eWeek reports that the 970MP will comprise two processing units per chip, each with its own Level 1 cache and storage subsystems including a Level 2 cache. The total amount of cache will be four times greater than is currently available in the dual processor Power Macs. ...
We first heard about the 970 in early 2002. By January 2003 we had photos of it (with feathers, remember?). All through the beginning of 2003 we expected machines. They finally appeared in June 2003... and many people didn't get theirs until late August. Based on history, then, we shouldn't really expect to see any 970MP machines this calendar year. Have patience.
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz.
www.theinquirer.net reports that the dual core 2.2 ghz opteron puts out 190 watts ( 95 watts per core ). That is just amazing. It is supposed to be a frop in replacement for existing systems, but Id be amazed if there were any consumer motherboards that could handle that power load, let alone the 360 watts required for a dual cpu system ( and these opterons are for 8 way systems ).
Id like to think that Apple knew all of this was coming, and that the water cooling is in preparation for this masive load. But the reality is if Apple could build a machine for less ( by, say, not using water cooling ) and still meet their engineering requirements ( noise levels ) they would.
We first heard about the 970 in early 2002. By January 2003 we had photos of it (with feathers, remember?). All through the beginning of 2003 we expected machines. They finally appeared in June 2003... and many people didn't get theirs until late August. Based on history, then, we shouldn't really expect to see any 970MP machines this calendar year. Have patience.
But in Jan 2003 it was announced as entering production and had been taped-out since late September. You add 60 days to that before you get chips. Then IBM's 90nm yeilds were south of 8%. That's a lot of production runs before you have enough chips to ship machines.
Today IBM says 90nm yeild is better than 90%, which is nothing short of astoundingly good. Sources leaked the 970MP/GX was taped out last July (prior to July 21). If you use the same math as the original 970 rollout, knowing IBM has made huge process improvements (making it a conservative timeline) you get a potential conservative June ship date. It would not be wild to expect the possibility of less time to full production, but 970MPs will come off the line at roughly half the rate for the same yeild numbers so it would take a little longer to stockpile.
Unless something is glactically and catastrophically wrong in IBM land over the last month or two, the 970MP (2.8Ghz, same source--Morpheus) should be available now in the necessary shippable quantities should Apple want to use them.
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz. I began to speculate that water cooled Power Macs may have been designed to handle a lot more heat than they presently do. The idea would be to have Power Macs ready to take a high wattage dual core CPU. What makes this seem plausible is that the Xserve got dual 2.3 GHz 970FX chips about the same time, and these are air cooled despite their smaller volume and more densely packed parts.
Somewhere along the way, Apple may have had second thoughts about this plan to use water cooling. Also the the news coming from IBM may have provided hope for a breakthrough in power dissipation. So, we may have to wait a while longer, but the end result may be a better design, both in the chips and hardware.
I don't think so. In a server environment you expect air conditioning and therefore stable/cool temperatures. Consumer machines run in a completely different environment. In most countries of the world air conditioning in private homes is extremely rare. Therefore you have to take into account that many consumer machines run at temperatures up to 90°-100°F which requires much stronger cooling systems.
I don't think so. In a server environment you expect air conditioning and therefore stable/cool temperatures. Consumer machines run in a completely different environment. In most countries of the world air conditioning in private homes is extremely rare. Therefore you have to take into account that many consumer machines run at temperatures up to 90°-100°F which requires much stronger cooling systems.
Operating Temperature, from Apple's Technical Specifications
"Apple's Power Mac updates, though not all that rumor sites had anticipated, will nevertheless be accompanied by an approximate 10% rise in prices. When queried about the increase, an unidentified spokesman blamed it on ATI. 'They told us the 9600 was so old the line had been retooled. Retooling again (for 9600 production) will be costly.' "
Sources say customers for the new PM will have the choice of 'opting out' of a GPU to save money. Although this would eliminate the possibility of a monitor - and useful work - there is a segment that just "enjoys listening to the fans."
CPU stuff aside, you think they could have at least made advancements in the GPU offerings and possibly increased the number o ram slots after a year.
But my iMac G5 1.8 runs circles around my PC 3 ghz work box for my use. So not being the first to Dual Core isn't that bad although everyone wants "their" brand computer to be that company that makes first.
Comments
Originally posted by jsnuff1
I pray that you are right, but with how the G5 has been going I really dont know. What makes you say so confidently that TS will be wrong on this revision?
I'm not saying that they are wrong. I'm saying that you believe a rumor at your peril. A rumors site will only have a reliable source for so long (because Apple likely tries to squash leakers as much as possible), and I think TS's reliable sources will dry up this year, if they haven't dried up since the lawsuit.
If Apple finds out who the leakers to TS are, they are in for some serious legal problems incuding some serious monetary damages let alone unemployment. We here think it is fun, but there are serious consequences for people who have breached their contracts. If it becomes widely known to other companies that they have breached contracts, they may not even get a job in the business anymore. The leakers to TS are in peril, and I would not want to be them right now because Apple legal is in hunting for them.
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
Nice one, Apple. While your software division is making products who fuel the need for faster hardware, your hardware division has been making...nothing, apparently. Seriously, 200Mhz?
Apple's hardware division doesn't make CPUs.
Apple knows what they're up against in both features and pricing.
This gives Apple to opportunity to counter attack with something
unbeatable in both catagories.
If the current PowerMacs are backing up on the shelves, then Apple
may bump the specs now to clear their inventories or simply drop the prices and farm out the rest to resellers.
A clearance sale price drop alone over the next 6 weeks would make
some people quite content and clear the way for a MAJOR revision
announcement at WWDC.
The major haunting issue for me is not knowing if they will
move to PCI-E.
I'd also really like to know if the NEW dual core processors will be pin compatible with at least the existing 90nm chassis.
These two items are crucial to my buying decision.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
I'd also really like to know if the NEW dual core processors will be pin compatible with at least the existing 90nm chassis.
Why? You can't go out and by a PowerPC CPU like you can with AMDs and Intels.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
... It says the dual-core Opteron 865 processor will cost $1,514, which happens to be the price of a single-core Opteron 852. The 870 will cost $2,149 and the 875 $2,649, the site says it was told. We ...
I saw those too, and was aghast. Yields must be terrible.
If the 970MP costs are comparable, maybe Apple will just add a dual-dual to the top of the line, at a price of around $5000. Been a long time since we've seen a Mac in that stratospheric range...
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz. I began to speculate that water cooled Power Macs may have been designed to handle a lot more heat than they presently do. The idea would be to have Power Macs ready to take a high wattage dual core CPU. What makes this seem plausible is that the Xserve got dual 2.3 GHz 970FX chips about the same time, and these are air cooled despite their smaller volume and more densely packed parts.
Somewhere along the way, Apple may have had second thoughts about this plan to use water cooling. Also the the news coming from IBM may have provided hope for a breakthrough in power dissipation. So, we may have to wait a while longer, but the end result may be a better design, both in the chips and hardware.
News
[Processors]
Tuesday 27th July 2004
IBM readies dual core G5 for faster speeds 11:11AM
IBM is reported to be preparing a dual core version of the PowerPC 970 processor, more commonly known as the G5.
eWeek reports that the 970MP will comprise two processing units per chip, each with its own Level 1 cache and storage subsystems including a Level 2 cache. The total amount of cache will be four times greater than is currently available in the dual processor Power Macs.
eWeek says that according to its sources at IBM the dual core 'is intended to expand the PowerPC's top frequency capabilities'. Currently the chip has a top speed of 2.5GHz, still some way behind the fastest Intel Pentiums (the Pentium 4 EE, for example, clocks 3.4GHz).
Longer pipelining will also allow for higher speeds, though the benefits of shorter pipelining will be retained by implementing 'instruction cracking' to split certain commands into simpler operations and distribute then between the cores.
Originally posted by PB
What are you talking about
Oh, um......... I swear it was TS that got the iMac totally wrong. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me.
Well, nevermind, I guess. Thanks for correcting that nasty error.
Originally posted by lucida
... IBM is reported to be preparing a dual core version of the PowerPC 970 processor, more commonly known as the G5.
eWeek reports that the 970MP will comprise two processing units per chip, each with its own Level 1 cache and storage subsystems including a Level 2 cache. The total amount of cache will be four times greater than is currently available in the dual processor Power Macs. ...
We first heard about the 970 in early 2002. By January 2003 we had photos of it (with feathers, remember?). All through the beginning of 2003 we expected machines. They finally appeared in June 2003... and many people didn't get theirs until late August. Based on history, then, we shouldn't really expect to see any 970MP machines this calendar year. Have patience.
Originally posted by snoopy
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz.
www.theinquirer.net reports that the dual core 2.2 ghz opteron puts out 190 watts ( 95 watts per core ). That is just amazing. It is supposed to be a frop in replacement for existing systems, but Id be amazed if there were any consumer motherboards that could handle that power load, let alone the 360 watts required for a dual cpu system ( and these opterons are for 8 way systems ).
Id like to think that Apple knew all of this was coming, and that the water cooling is in preparation for this masive load. But the reality is if Apple could build a machine for less ( by, say, not using water cooling ) and still meet their engineering requirements ( noise levels ) they would.
Originally posted by cubist
We first heard about the 970 in early 2002. By January 2003 we had photos of it (with feathers, remember?). All through the beginning of 2003 we expected machines. They finally appeared in June 2003... and many people didn't get theirs until late August. Based on history, then, we shouldn't really expect to see any 970MP machines this calendar year. Have patience.
But in Jan 2003 it was announced as entering production and had been taped-out since late September. You add 60 days to that before you get chips. Then IBM's 90nm yeilds were south of 8%. That's a lot of production runs before you have enough chips to ship machines.
Today IBM says 90nm yeild is better than 90%, which is nothing short of astoundingly good. Sources leaked the 970MP/GX was taped out last July (prior to July 21). If you use the same math as the original 970 rollout, knowing IBM has made huge process improvements (making it a conservative timeline) you get a potential conservative June ship date. It would not be wild to expect the possibility of less time to full production, but 970MPs will come off the line at roughly half the rate for the same yeild numbers so it would take a little longer to stockpile.
Unless something is glactically and catastrophically wrong in IBM land over the last month or two, the 970MP (2.8Ghz, same source--Morpheus) should be available now in the necessary shippable quantities should Apple want to use them.
This same if they started making a Pro version of the powermac with these.
If Apple don't release the machines at an event then we will see a very meager speed bump.
Dobby.
Originally posted by snoopy
I remember reading somewhere that a dual core AMD will dissipated 130W at 2.2 GHz. I began to speculate that water cooled Power Macs may have been designed to handle a lot more heat than they presently do. The idea would be to have Power Macs ready to take a high wattage dual core CPU. What makes this seem plausible is that the Xserve got dual 2.3 GHz 970FX chips about the same time, and these are air cooled despite their smaller volume and more densely packed parts.
Somewhere along the way, Apple may have had second thoughts about this plan to use water cooling. Also the the news coming from IBM may have provided hope for a breakthrough in power dissipation. So, we may have to wait a while longer, but the end result may be a better design, both in the chips and hardware.
I don't think so. In a server environment you expect air conditioning and therefore stable/cool temperatures. Consumer machines run in a completely different environment. In most countries of the world air conditioning in private homes is extremely rare. Therefore you have to take into account that many consumer machines run at temperatures up to 90°-100°F which requires much stronger cooling systems.
Originally posted by Gulliver
I don't think so. In a server environment you expect air conditioning and therefore stable/cool temperatures. Consumer machines run in a completely different environment. In most countries of the world air conditioning in private homes is extremely rare. Therefore you have to take into account that many consumer machines run at temperatures up to 90°-100°F which requires much stronger cooling systems.
Operating Temperature, from Apple's Technical Specifications
Xserve: 50 to 95 degrees F
Power Mac: 50 to 95 degrees F
I hate to sound like an ass but read my post entitled Apple's Future....A Sad Reality? to see where I am coming from.
Originally posted by Jared
[sarcasm]Hey folks, stay positive, everything you want will be in the next update[/sarcasm]
I hate to sound like an ass but read my post entitled Apple's Future....A Sad Reality? to see where I am coming from.
Read it, hated it.
"Apple's Power Mac updates, though not all that rumor sites had anticipated, will nevertheless be accompanied by an approximate 10% rise in prices. When queried about the increase, an unidentified spokesman blamed it on ATI. 'They told us the 9600 was so old the line had been retooled. Retooling again (for 9600 production) will be costly.' "
Sources say customers for the new PM will have the choice of 'opting out' of a GPU to save money. Although this would eliminate the possibility of a monitor - and useful work - there is a segment that just "enjoys listening to the fans."
Do I need to id this as sarcasm? Surely not.
But my iMac G5 1.8 runs circles around my PC 3 ghz work box for my use. So not being the first to Dual Core isn't that bad although everyone wants "their" brand computer to be that company that makes first.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Read it, hated it.
But as you can see....based on this post and Think Secrets latest, updates remain bleak if all said is true.