"Apple's Power Mac updates, though not all that rumor sites had anticipated, will nevertheless be accompanied by an approximate 10% rise in prices. When queried about the increase, an unidentified spokesman blamed it on ATI. 'They told us the 9600 was so old the line had been retooled. Retooling again (for 9600 production) will be costly.' "
Sources say customers for the new PM will have the choice of 'opting out' of a GPU to save money. Although this would eliminate the possibility of a monitor - and useful work - there is a segment that just "enjoys listening to the fans."
CPU stuff aside, you think they could have at least made advancements in the GPU offerings and possibly increased the number o ram slots after a year.
But my iMac G5 1.8 runs circles around my PC 3 ghz work box for my use. So not being the first to Dual Core isn't that bad although everyone wants "their" brand computer to be that company that makes first.
Could have what??? They haven't announced anything and you are second guessing what they could have done??? Saying something about after a year. If you are talking about updates you have to wait a couple months--like July before you can talk about a year passing. Do you own a time machine? Or have you just lost perspective?
Its this complete sudden near global acceptance of the worst rumor to come along as ground truth, despite real evidence that superior hardware exists someplace, and incredibly loose date math, which leads to WRONG statements disguised as past tense fact that is absolutely inane.
Nick hasn't had any long lead time hardware rumors pan out in a looong time. The mini call was there, but only a week ahead of time---nothing before that. That looks like a last minute leak. Much different than trying to scoop something as potentially far off as WWDC. He does seem to have a reliable feed for software info. That keeps his credibility looking reasonable, but on the closer look his HW record lately is only a bit better than Meaders. If his HW record is that bad, do we really want to take everything he says about Apple HW as gospel?
But as you can see....based on this post and Think Secrets latest, updates remain bleak if all said is true.
I was joking btw. But you are right that plenty of us will be rather bummed if we don't get PCI Express at least. I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on. The Calamity could be catastrophic capice?
Hell I'm only good for an iMac but I'd like to see my Mac Brethren happy.
I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on.
I think folks are about flamed out. Maybe THAT's the real reason Apple fed the TS leaker: to get the bad news out early so folks could deal with it. By the time the updates are announced we'll all be exhausted with no fire in the belly. Course end result is pretty much the same - disappointing PM sales.
(But I hope you were joking about leaving the forum, even for a spate.)
Judging from how their accuracy has suffered recently I'm not too sure that misinformation hasn't be spread. We'll see if AI has good info next Tuesday.
I'm beginning to think that a new dual core Pro Series UltraMac
may not be all that unreasonable.
The existing PowerMacs may no longer be the latest or greatest
but they are still damn good systems offering far more than the majority
of users will ever need.
Most of us assume that Apple will retire the current G5's to make way
for the new dual core machines, but that may not be necessary at all.
Many shops may not be ready to migrate over to PCI-E just yet.
An across the board $300 price drop and a few essential improvements
could keep the current chassis going strong for several years as a mid range system for those who need a bit more than the iMacG5 can offer.
It's quite possible that the rumored 970 GX could be used in both single and standard dual configurations to help keep the PowerMacs affordable, while the 970MP becomes the new standard for the Pro series.
If this were the case then the specs TS posted could be partially correct.
I can understand disappointment, because we are eager to see a Power Mac with dual core chips. However, I don't see any reason to be pessimistic, as a few seem to be. Dual core Power Macs will be here when they are ready. I'm sure no one wants them more than the crew at Apple, so Power Macs begin selling well.
If the 970MP is really ready to go, then Think Secret is wrong and we'll see new Power Macs any day now. If the chips are not ready, we'll likely see the predicted speed bump now, with all new Power Macs later this year.
I feel certain that the chip is the critical path, not the Apple hardware, and that is not a reason to criticize IBM. It's a tough job making the best possible CPU, and IBM want it to be right too, for use in their blade servers.
I fondly remember the days when the top Macs where $5000 or more. Well I liked selling them not buying them
I really don't see an issue with Apple bifurcating the Powermac line into an Express model and standard like you mention. The Express could could have the Dual-Core and other very cool goodies. The standard Powermac line will have close to what we have today but PCI Express and a little less ambitious motherboard and less aggressive pricing.
There are people would gladly shell out $4k for a Quad Powermac. AVC encoding is going to kick off another round of overnight encoding sessions.
You'd really only need two models of each. $1499/1999 standard Powermacs and 2499/2999/3499 Express models or so.
Dave. I had no idea I was approaching 5k. I look forward to the next 5k.
Fallen: I agree with your reasoning (and have said something similar in the past) but ask myself if the Power or Express line is coming why hasn't it generated a little more heat on rumor sites? MOSR is pushing it the hardest and their reliability is the subject of scorn apparently.
hmurchison: LOVE your prices. I'll take one of the 3499's
Fallen: I agree with your reasoning (and have said something similar in the past) but ask myself if the Power or Express line is coming why hasn't it generated a little more heat on rumor sites? MOSR is pushing it the hardest and their reliability is the subject of scorn apparently.
They didn't stop making G3 iBooks just because of the new G4 Powerbooks right? and they probably won't retire the G4 PowerBooks
for quite some time after they release a G5 PB, so it makes perfect sense
that Apple could still offer the current G5 configurations in some form
with a NEW bad ass Pro workstation for those who really need one.
I have a feeling that the dual core Pro, PCI-E series might start closer to $3999
Fallen: not sure I made myself clear. I have no problem whatever with several lines being produced simultaneously. Absolutely. Where I get nervous (about our projection - the bifurcation - ) is why haven't we seen more talk about the coming high end.
Although come to think of it Mac Rumors had a pretty detailed Page 2 report (the one that included Blu-Ray) But still... Page 2 and MOSR. Would be nice to have a little more assurance, ya know?
Fallen: not sure I made myself clear. I have no problem whatever with several lines being produced simultaneously. Absolutely. Where I get nervous (about our projection - the bifurcation - ) is why haven't we seen more talk about the coming high end.
All of us are walking on eggs here waiting, wondering, stressed to the max because of Apple's cloak and dagger tactics.
After spending $2700 on my G3, I'm not about to blow another $3000
until I see the next revision.
BTW, my Mac fund bank CD for $3200 has now earned me a whopping $13.64 in 2 months \
PowerMac G3 MiniTower/300 Mhz/64MB RAM,8.5 SCSI, CD ROM,
A/V personality card. $2593
with tax and shipping $2709.69
Education price.
And it still works!
MIne was purchased 5/ 9/99 PM G3 tower 300mhz, originally 64 ram but now 1gb, and a 12gb HD. Im using it right now. Slow as shit basically, but it still works just fine.
I suppose all here we are hoping that TS is wrong. However, this is the detail that makes me think that TS may be right: even if the rumored specifications come out true, the Power Macs will remain competitive, especially if there is at the same time a price drop. Not top performance, not future-proof without PCIe, but competitive for some time still. And certainly not the Mac-Wintel gap of the latest G4 days. The alleged marginal performance improvement plus price drop would make the trick.
Well, even though he's totally wrong, he's actually right.
TS is very bimodal on this - they're either dead-on, or way off, and they were off on a number of things at MWSF.
If TS is right on this, it will be so Apple has a chance to lower the baseline prices for Powermacs. That in itself may not be a bad thing, and you won't be paying $3k for that kit, but $2200.
But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling. We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.
Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now. I won't speculate on what's going to ship, but I only see 2.7GHz if they've taken this time to seriously cut costs on the Powermac and a big price cut accompanies.
But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling.
How do we know this? I don't think the liquid cooling is sufficient if IBM cannot produce reliable chips at these clock speeds.
Quote:
We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.
Well, the first one is a fact (see leaked IBM document), the second is just speculation at the moment, reasonable but speculation.
Quote:
Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now.
I think the reason is the new yearly or so update cycle Apple seems to have established for the G5 machines. It remains to be seen if the iMac proves me wrong on that, I doubt it though.
Comments
Originally posted by Dave J
Garnered from a closeted web site:
"Apple's Power Mac updates, though not all that rumor sites had anticipated, will nevertheless be accompanied by an approximate 10% rise in prices. When queried about the increase, an unidentified spokesman blamed it on ATI. 'They told us the 9600 was so old the line had been retooled. Retooling again (for 9600 production) will be costly.' "
Sources say customers for the new PM will have the choice of 'opting out' of a GPU to save money. Although this would eliminate the possibility of a monitor - and useful work - there is a segment that just "enjoys listening to the fans."
Do I need to id this as sarcasm? Surely not.
Originally posted by aplnub
CPU stuff aside, you think they could have at least made advancements in the GPU offerings and possibly increased the number o ram slots after a year.
But my iMac G5 1.8 runs circles around my PC 3 ghz work box for my use. So not being the first to Dual Core isn't that bad although everyone wants "their" brand computer to be that company that makes first.
Could have what??? They haven't announced anything and you are second guessing what they could have done??? Saying something about after a year. If you are talking about updates you have to wait a couple months--like July before you can talk about a year passing. Do you own a time machine? Or have you just lost perspective?
Its this complete sudden near global acceptance of the worst rumor to come along as ground truth, despite real evidence that superior hardware exists someplace, and incredibly loose date math, which leads to WRONG statements disguised as past tense fact that is absolutely inane.
Nick hasn't had any long lead time hardware rumors pan out in a looong time. The mini call was there, but only a week ahead of time---nothing before that. That looks like a last minute leak. Much different than trying to scoop something as potentially far off as WWDC. He does seem to have a reliable feed for software info. That keeps his credibility looking reasonable, but on the closer look his HW record lately is only a bit better than Meaders. If his HW record is that bad, do we really want to take everything he says about Apple HW as gospel?
Originally posted by Jared
But as you can see....based on this post and Think Secrets latest, updates remain bleak if all said is true.
I was joking btw. But you are right that plenty of us will be rather bummed if we don't get PCI Express at least. I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on. The Calamity could be catastrophic capice?
Hell I'm only good for an iMac but I'd like to see my Mac Brethren happy.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on.
I think folks are about flamed out. Maybe THAT's the real reason Apple fed the TS leaker: to get the bad news out early so folks could deal with it. By the time the updates are announced we'll all be exhausted with no fire in the belly. Course end result is pretty much the same - disappointing PM sales.
(But I hope you were joking about leaving the forum, even for a spate.)
Judging from how their accuracy has suffered recently I'm not too sure that misinformation hasn't be spread. We'll see if AI has good info next Tuesday.
may not be all that unreasonable.
The existing PowerMacs may no longer be the latest or greatest
but they are still damn good systems offering far more than the majority
of users will ever need.
Most of us assume that Apple will retire the current G5's to make way
for the new dual core machines, but that may not be necessary at all.
Many shops may not be ready to migrate over to PCI-E just yet.
An across the board $300 price drop and a few essential improvements
could keep the current chassis going strong for several years as a mid range system for those who need a bit more than the iMacG5 can offer.
It's quite possible that the rumored 970 GX could be used in both single and standard dual configurations to help keep the PowerMacs affordable, while the 970MP becomes the new standard for the Pro series.
If this were the case then the specs TS posted could be partially correct.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Dave I'm still hoping that TS is wrong.
Bless you.
We need to start a pool for the day and hour you will hit 5000!
If the 970MP is really ready to go, then Think Secret is wrong and we'll see new Power Macs any day now. If the chips are not ready, we'll likely see the predicted speed bump now, with all new Power Macs later this year.
I feel certain that the chip is the critical path, not the Apple hardware, and that is not a reason to criticize IBM. It's a tough job making the best possible CPU, and IBM want it to be right too, for use in their blade servers.
I fondly remember the days when the top Macs where $5000 or more. Well I liked selling them not buying them
I really don't see an issue with Apple bifurcating the Powermac line into an Express model and standard like you mention. The Express could could have the Dual-Core and other very cool goodies. The standard Powermac line will have close to what we have today but PCI Express and a little less ambitious motherboard and less aggressive pricing.
There are people would gladly shell out $4k for a Quad Powermac. AVC encoding is going to kick off another round of overnight encoding sessions.
You'd really only need two models of each. $1499/1999 standard Powermacs and 2499/2999/3499 Express models or so.
Dave. I had no idea I was approaching 5k. I look forward to the next 5k.
Receipt dated 12/16/98
PowerMac G3 MiniTower/300 Mhz/64MB RAM,8.5 SCSI, CD ROM,
A/V personality card. $2593
with tax and shipping $2709.69
Education price.
And it still works!
hmurchison: LOVE your prices. I'll take one of the 3499's
Originally posted by Dave J
Fallen: I agree with your reasoning (and have said something similar in the past) but ask myself if the Power or Express line is coming why hasn't it generated a little more heat on rumor sites? MOSR is pushing it the hardest and their reliability is the subject of scorn apparently.
They didn't stop making G3 iBooks just because of the new G4 Powerbooks right? and they probably won't retire the G4 PowerBooks
for quite some time after they release a G5 PB, so it makes perfect sense
that Apple could still offer the current G5 configurations in some form
with a NEW bad ass Pro workstation for those who really need one.
I have a feeling that the dual core Pro, PCI-E series might start closer to $3999
and higher for Quad configurations.
Although come to think of it Mac Rumors had a pretty detailed Page 2 report (the one that included Blu-Ray) But still... Page 2 and MOSR. Would be nice to have a little more assurance, ya know?
Originally posted by Dave J
Fallen: not sure I made myself clear. I have no problem whatever with several lines being produced simultaneously. Absolutely. Where I get nervous (about our projection - the bifurcation - ) is why haven't we seen more talk about the coming high end.
All of us are walking on eggs here waiting, wondering, stressed to the max because of Apple's cloak and dagger tactics.
After spending $2700 on my G3, I'm not about to blow another $3000
until I see the next revision.
BTW, my Mac fund bank CD for $3200 has now earned me a whopping $13.64 in 2 months
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Oh yes painful memories
Receipt dated 12/16/98
PowerMac G3 MiniTower/300 Mhz/64MB RAM,8.5 SCSI, CD ROM,
A/V personality card. $2593
with tax and shipping $2709.69
Education price.
And it still works!
MIne was purchased 5/ 9/99 PM G3 tower 300mhz, originally 64 ram but now 1gb, and a 12gb HD. Im using it right now. Slow as shit basically, but it still works just fine.
Originally posted by onlooker
EDIT- it's not worth drudging it out again.
I know forgive me, I'm losing it.
6 more weeks Arggggh!
Silver bullet please
Originally posted by hmurchison
Dave I'm still hoping that TS is wrong.
I suppose all here we are hoping that TS is wrong. However, this is the detail that makes me think that TS may be right: even if the rumored specifications come out true, the Power Macs will remain competitive, especially if there is at the same time a price drop. Not top performance, not future-proof without PCIe, but competitive for some time still. And certainly not the Mac-Wintel gap of the latest G4 days. The alleged marginal performance improvement plus price drop would make the trick.
Originally posted by PB
What are you talking about
Well, even though he's totally wrong, he's actually right.
TS is very bimodal on this - they're either dead-on, or way off, and they were off on a number of things at MWSF.
If TS is right on this, it will be so Apple has a chance to lower the baseline prices for Powermacs. That in itself may not be a bad thing, and you won't be paying $3k for that kit, but $2200.
But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling. We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.
Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now. I won't speculate on what's going to ship, but I only see 2.7GHz if they've taken this time to seriously cut costs on the Powermac and a big price cut accompanies.
But I still think TS is wrong.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling.
How do we know this? I don't think the liquid cooling is sufficient if IBM cannot produce reliable chips at these clock speeds.
We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.
Well, the first one is a fact
Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now.
I think the reason is the new yearly or so update cycle Apple seems to have established for the G5 machines. It remains to be seen if the iMac proves me wrong on that, I doubt it though.
But I still think TS is wrong.
Amen