Paganism Experts: Explain Cross-Quarters?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Okay, now the cross-quarters (beltane, lughnasadh, samhain, imbolc) are based on the midpoints between equinoxes -- so that is a solar-based celebration.



Okay, cool. but how do the 13 full moons in each year relate to these cross-quarters? Since the full moon is very important, do pagans somehow tie in the full moon nearest to the cross-quarter and call that the full moon of Beltane, for example?



edit: i know each full moon has it's own name as it relates to the time of year, but not sure how it ties in to the solar side of the celebrations, because moon+sun harmony is a good yin/yang non-dualism balance thing, right?



Also, wtf do you do when you are 3 degrees north of the equator? after living in sydney and san francisco and brisbane and melbourne for the past 10 years being on the equator and the lack of seasons is screwing with my head... time seems to stand still like an endless hot and humid summer (that's what it is like out here.... )



since i've seen some very indepth theological and philosophical discussions i'm sure some of y'all can shed light on this matter... i'm not gonna check out wicca websites because it can get pretty confusing depending on gardnerian, or pure celtic, faery wicca, etc. etc.





**confused wicca dabbler**

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 10
    Dude.



    Check out the writing of the British anthropologist Lionel Sims. He's the world's No. 1 don on the subject of the transition between hunting and farming in the European neolithic, and an expert on megaliths (like Stonehenge) and the cultures that produced them.



    Why Lionel Sims? Well, he's got a theory about the reconciling of lunar and solar calendars in neolithic cultures and their monuments. Stonehenge is as much a lunar monument as it is a solar monument, he says, designed to show sun and moon working in 'co-operation'. He's really big on all that full moon and sun stuff in great detail.



    Really fascinating stuff.
  • Reply 2 of 10
    (nothing to do with Wicca, though, which was invented in the late 1800s...)
  • Reply 3 of 10
    Actually, wicca was invented just after World War II, by Gerald Gardner.
  • Reply 4 of 10
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Actually, wicca was invented just after World War II, by Gerald Gardner.



    Oh yeah, you're right. That's even sadder than I first thought.
  • Reply 5 of 10
    johnqjohnq Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Oh yeah, you're right. That's even sadder than I first thought.



    As with any philosophy or ancient religion, it's best to try to study the subjects for the sake of learning and glean anything universal and timeless but not pretend that you can suddenly take it exactly as you find it and make it wholly your own and use it in ernest in the modern contexts. That's just spiritual masturbation (and cultural rape). These present day mishmash cults that use myriad rituals and props from older religions make my skin crawl. So fake and shallow.



    One reason why I personally will never get "tribal"/American Indian/asian/etc tattoos...they've nothing to do with me and my culture. Doing so is as noble to me as going to the mall and picking out an African mask at Pier 1. Means nothing.
  • Reply 6 of 10
    Quote:

    Originally posted by johnq

    As with any philosophy or ancient religion, it's best to try to study the subjects for the sake of learning and glean anything universal and timeless but not pretend that you can suddenly take it exactly as you find it and make it wholly your own and use it in ernest in the modern contexts. That's just spiritual masturbation (and cultural rape). These present day mishmash cults that use myriad rituals and props from older religions make my skin crawl. So fake and shallow.



    One reason why I personally will never get "tribal"/American Indian/asian/etc tattoos...they've nothing to do with me and my culture. Doing so is as noble to me as going to the mall and picking out an African mask at Pier 1. Means nothing.




    Hear hear.



    There's nothing that drives me madder then seeing those dredlocked locusts blowing their didgeridoos and banging djembés in backpacker's lodges in Africa.



    It's that 'we're closer to our ancestors than you are because we have dreds, wear tie-dye and bang djembés' thing.



    No, you are not. You are tourists.



    Just like those people on package holidays. Learn to speak some Xhosa, buy a beer in the 'scary' shebeen and then you might be engaging in Africa. In the meantime catch bilhazia and get mugged on the way to the hospital, you smug bastards.
  • Reply 7 of 10
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Hear hear.



    There's nothing that drives me madder then seeing those dredlocked locusts blowing their didgeridoos and banging djembés in backpacker's lodges in Africa.



    It's that 'we're closer to our ancestors than you are because we have dreds, wear tie-dye and bang djembés' thing.



    No, you are not. You are tourists.



    Just like those people on package holidays. Learn to speak some Xhosa, buy a beer in the 'scary' shebeen and then you might be engaging in Africa. In the meantime catch bilhazia and get mugged on the way to the hospital, you smug bastards.




    in this arena i've got my ass covered. i'm part-Indian (subcontinent) part-Chinese. i learnt some traditional Indian ballet and played the traditional Indian flute when i was a kid, and learnt mandarin... also did classical pianoforte, and learnt the Queen's English... growing up as part of a Malaysian elite, this makes sense if you've ever been a tourist in this region.



    problem was, it got boring.... reconciling my Indian and Chinese heritage was fairly easy because in Malaysia/Singapore there are generally just three predominant cultures: Malay, Chinese, Indian, then a tiny smattering of pan-asian minorities.



    when i moved to australia, and lived in san francisco for a while, there's the real challenge, being exposed to a very wide range of cultures, including the spiritual and cultural 'shopping' you describe.



    it gets a bit much for me sometimes, because why the f8ck in australia is the new age and psychedelic trance community mostly whiteys with dreadlocks?



    but it's all cool, you all have a f8cking good point about filtering out what works best for you. elements of wicca have been very useful in some ways to me, in redressing the dearth of feminine-oriented spirituality, searching beyond newtonian physics, gregorian calendar, and orthodox christianity views on understanding the flow of time....



    it's all cool part 2, when you all so see said whitey with dreadlock in a transvestite bar hooking up with a asian-looking tranny.... go with the interpretation that works best for you...



    when i was working at greenpeace in australia for a year it did get annoying at times because i was like, some of you hardcore greenie kids need to chill the f8ck out and step away from the Vegan activism for one second. actually it was the reason i decided to leave, i am more of an 'enlightenment-searching-geek-of-asian-heritage-but-colonial-english-whitewashed' type dude...



    thanks for the responses.
  • Reply 8 of 10
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Dude.



    Check out the writing of the British anthropologist Lionel Sims. He's the world's No. 1 don on the subject of the transition between hunting and farming in the European neolithic, and an expert on megaliths (like Stonehenge) and the cultures that produced them.



    Why Lionel Sims? Well, he's got a theory about the reconciling of lunar and solar calendars in neolithic cultures and their monuments. Stonehenge is as much a lunar monument as it is a solar monument, he says, designed to show sun and moon working in 'co-operation'. He's really big on all that full moon and sun stuff in great detail.



    Really fascinating stuff.




    Lionel Sims. check. thanks dude



    i think that's some of the issue with Wicca in modern times, it gets a bit dogmatic, right now its a spiritual/intellectual/biological interest of mine to explore and understand better the full moon - equinox - mid-equinox stuff
  • Reply 9 of 10
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    The druids had StoneHenge for coordinating solar and lunar cycles, I have Excel



    ...more soon... ...those research skills from my final year at college are proving handy...
  • Reply 10 of 10
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Okay, Lionel Sims probably has this chart and some algorithm sitting in his office, but I couldn't really find it on the web, so I just plotted the data in Excel and did some PotatoChop work.



    I learnt something tonight ... The progression of the moon cycle is very interesting, definite pattern when overlaid on the solar cycle/ julian(gregorian??) calendar. Some fudging because like I said I'm not an astronomer/astrologer but we have a good picture now on how the lunar and solar cycles mesh. also i could not be f8cked with leap years etc.



    If lunar was more related to hunter-gatherer and solar to farming, given that in modern times we do neither, could solar-lunar understanding and how it relates to our evolution give us insight into our behavioural/ spiritual needs in the 21st century? I vote yes!!



    Enjoy...! I personally vouch to PayPal US$5.00 to anyone that can make a RADIAL version of this chart below 'coz I am really really curious how it will look... and I have run out of steam/inspiration...



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