Why? They all have one thing in common. They are inhibiting FireWire as the single high speed wired connection standard.
FireWire r0x0r, these sUx0r.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just wanted to ask the audience to compare the quality of a USB connector to a Fire Wire connector (either type).
FIREWIRE: Has Metal on metal contact that is locked into place using the naturally occuring springy aspect of the metal pins. Also there is a double plug action. The plug is generally a male plug, but inside the female socket there is another male plug. Thus giving more surface area to lock into.
horrible example of fire wire plug:
|==> ]=== (socket)
|==> ]===
note that the socket (brackets) plug inbetween the two arrows also. Better yet, you go look at a dam* firewire port your self. (it's easier that way)
USB. You've gotta foam pad serving as the spring with four pins laying on that. Sometimes the foam looses it's funk and you have to bend the metal under it to get the pins to make contact with the socket. Even though you have the same basic socket/plug ideas as with firewire, the foam here is generally the "spring." (which is bad, but I probably don't have to say that too loud.)
FireWire is a better standard, both in speed (FireWire 800) and in plug design (don't have to bend the plug to get it to work like with USB). Hey, also with Firewire A (that's the big one) you get 6 pins for added stability.
I have a question for you all learned individuals out there. With the 970 coming and the Power Mac evolving, will there be any changes to LCD monitor connections? I'm curious about this because I'm going to be buying a Power Mac when the 970 is included and I'd like to buy an LCD monitor before hand and have it here for when the PM finally is introduced and ships to the masses of drooling Mac users. But before I spend a significant amount of cash on a good LCD screen I'd like to get a thumbs up from those in "the know" about what will be included. Thanks in advance for your help.
The 970 is to be named "G-5" to get us G4 owners in nostalgic mode, remembering 1999 the G5 will be introduced late November as "the first supercomputer extreme"- the line up will be SP 800MHz-900MHz and 1 GHz but then they are down clocked to 700-800-900 Hz and kept at that speed for a loooooong time
Just kidding, thanks to big blue the that will put back power in the Power PC, Apple will have serious CPU power and not jut be a Mr nice GUI.
FireWire is a better standard, both in speed (FireWire 800) and in plug design (don't have to bend the plug to get it to work like with USB). Hey, also with Firewire A (that's the big one) you get 6 pins for added stability.
... actually, the FW A plug is a flawed design, it blew the Mobo on my Titanium because it's too easy for the Power Pins to cross connect by accident with the data pins, all it takes is just a bit of the wrong wiggle when you're hot plugging and poof!
True it doesn't happen very often (it took a year of hot plugging before it finally did), but the fact that it CAN happen, says this is one that got under the radar. The service guy confirmed my suspicions also ... I wasn't the first Titanium he saw with a toasted Mobo thanks to FW A.
Ever since, as far as I'm concerned, FW A ISN'T hot pluggable! (Ironically, back when I was a service guy, I rescued more than a few SCSI drives by breaking the rules and plugging them in when the power was on, and I never blew a drive or a mobo! NOT recommended of course ...)
<strong>They just need to hold on for 2 years. After that, we'll have a democrat in the white house and the economy should be rebounding and the 970 should be nearing 3.ghz </strong><hr></blockquote>
You weren't one of those confused 'ballot' people were you?
Seriously, I don't think it would matter if Al Gore was in office, the economy just sucks. Clinton took credit for the internet boom, but he had absolutely nothing to do with it. You and I decide that (well, investors do too.) And I hate to even try and imagine what kind of mess we would be in had Gore been the one visiting the WTC site after Sept 11. Scary!
Here's an article I just saw in which Tim Dougherty, director of blade server strategy for IBM, talks about IBM blade servers using power4 and xeon chips and doesn't even mention the powerpc970. It doesn't really mean anything but seemed worth posting.
<strong>Here's an article I just saw in which Tim Dougherty, director of blade server strategy for IBM, talks about IBM blade servers using power4 and xeon chips and doesn't even mention the powerpc970. It doesn't really mean anything but seemed worth posting.
"IBM also plans to introduce blade servers based on its Power4 RISC processor by year-end, said Dougherty. By then, a single chassis will allow solution providers to mix and match two-way and four-way blade servers based on either Intel or Power4 processors, he said."
Hasn't the power4 always been a risc processor? He could mean the 970 but it doesn't sound like it to me. But then I was also under the impression that the power 4 would be too hot and use too much power for a blade server so who knows.
[quote]I have a question for you all learned individuals out there. With the 970 coming and the Power Mac evolving, will there be any changes to LCD monitor connections? I'm curious about this because I'm going to be buying a Power Mac when the 970 is included and I'd like to buy an LCD monitor before hand and have it here for when the PM finally is introduced and ships to the masses of drooling Mac users. <hr></blockquote>
If you are not going to make good use of the LCD screen before the PM gets here, it's not wise to buy any equipment before its needed. While I sincerly doubt that the LCD interface will change, the 970 will be introduced anywhere from May 2003 to early 2004 (unless something goes horribly wrong).
If it's on the later side, then there's a good chance that a better LCD monitor for the same price, or the same LCD monitor for a better price will be available at that time.
"IBM also plans to introduce blade servers based on its Power4 RISC processor by year-end, said Dougherty. By then, a single chassis will allow solution providers to mix and match two-way and four-way blade servers based on either Intel or Power4 processors, he said."
wouldn't that be IBM's 970??</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Power4 is a PPC risk chip. The PPC 970 is a rendition of this chip witch makes it part of the Power4 family. The regular Power4 draws Way to much power to be used in the blade, so it must be the 970 he is talking about.
The Power4 is a PPC risc chip. The PPC 970 is a rendition of this chip witch makes it part of the Power4 family. The regular Power4 draws Way to much power to be used in the blade, so it must be the 970 he is talking about.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you, I would tend to agree. That would mean the 970 will be in an IBM blade at least by the end of the year.....ummm, and this would indicate what concerning the availability of the IBM 970 for use by Apple? bear in mind the German hiccup concerning the speed running @ 1.8 - 2.5GHz. mmmmm.
You weren't one of those confused 'ballot' people were you?
Seriously, I don't think it would matter if Al Gore was in office, the economy just sucks. Clinton took credit for the internet boom, but he had absolutely nothing to do with it. You and I decide that (well, investors do too.) And I hate to even try and imagine what kind of mess we would be in had Gore been the one visiting the WTC site after Sept 11. Scary! </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea, confused about how Gore received the majority of ballots yet Bush got the victory
I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.
I rather expect you'll find a lot of people in the engineering or scientific fields would switch to OS X if it had the software support. There's a sizeable workstation unix market, at least in revenue terms. Just ask Sun.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I doubt that it will take off like a firestorm until Apple decides to actually document their software instead of relying on osmosis or Apple hackers. Try using NetInfo to start a service you developed or just temporarily bring up telnetd for that matter. Don't even mention integrating with an existing NIS server... To be considered a "workstation" these little tidbits must be documented in a Mother of all Mac Documents delivered on the CD.
Anycase, Apple is going in the right direction, and they have done a good job, but just because they have a Unix implementation does not mean that everyone will just abandon their Solaris/Linux/AIX/etc. At a minimum they must document those aspects of the platform that are different from "normal" Unix. Ask yourself the question: What do I have to do to enable mouse-over window focus when running Apple's X11? Hint: Do not look in /etc/X11/...
PS: Apple actually listens, I personally wrote them a letter asking that they support X11, not relying on third parties. Got it! I asked for mouse-over window focus. Got it! (I doubt that I was the only one writing.)
Apple listens, we simply need to tell them what is of genuine concern and give valid reasons. Where I work Apple Macs are seen as viable replacements for the Sun workstations we currently use, lack of documentation not withstanding. If only the bloody economy would get moving!
970 announcement at MWNY, for shipment September 01: Two models; 1.6 GHz and 1.8 GHz, both uniprocessor and designed to act as a mop for a certain degree of latent demand in the Holiday quarter ending 31/12.
Result: Publicity now, sales in this financial year, and a semi-reasonable holiday quarter; also provides light at the end of the tunnel for all those who want/need something more serious.
MWSF 04 - announcement of speed bumps, 1.6 GHz disappears, 1.8 becomes "fast", 2.0 GHz becomes "faster", two-way 2.2 GHz is new "best" plus "10.3" which will provide 64-bithood to significant elements of the various APIs therein.
Result: Publicity then, sales in the "quiet" quarters, and a platform to go on to NAB and NAMM, as well as spiking the publicity guns of the Evil Empire and anything it might announce at CES 04.
Summer 04 speed bump: 2.0GHz "Fast", 2.2GHz "better", 2 x 2.2 GHz "faster", 2 x 2.5 GHz "best".
All goes quiet until 0.09 micron for MWSF 05, including release of 970-powered PowerBooks (low-voltage) and 970-powered iMacs which will be three years old and due for a redesign.
xServe will get a big brother in 2004: 4-way 970, 2.2GHz plus PCI-X and a few other "hot" technologies just after MWSF. 2.5GHz sometime in the Autumn.
In my universe, you would take the 970 to its logical conclusion before adopting 980 sometime in 2006 for the pro line (2007 for the iMac). This would leave Apple some space to use 970 in a diffusion line - perhaps recycling the old Power Computing brand - that would be 32-bit/2GB RAM only with support for only FW400 and USB and without any of the "exotic" stuff found in the main Apple brand.
This would allow the delivery of a "dime bag" Mac - probably under $1000 in 2007 money that would relieve the demand for a "cheap" Macintosh without cannabilising the sales of the full line.
Yea, confused about how Gore received the majority of ballots yet Bush got the victory
I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
...you do know we have an electoral college, right. and this isn't the first time its happened, right?
Its not like its black art. Its law.
And, BTW, before you draw any conclusions, I greatly dislike Bush. But the Constitution is the Constitution. Pretty straight forward.
So lets sweep that one under the rug, shall we?
Apple does seem to be tightening the noose a little in the ADC. Maybe they have some news coming out at WWDC they don't spread around. Uhm, maybe like 64bit which pretty much lets the cat out of the bag.
I mean, like developers of all kinds gotta know at some point before Apple releases the hardware.
<strong>I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someday, somewhere though...
As far as this thread goes, I simply cannot see Apple not announcing that the 970 will indeed be the star of the show and give us a glimpse of OS X in all it's 64-bit goodness in a pre-release Powermac. Probably not show too much of the box at all, or perhaps even a wind-tunnel PM, but you know it is coming.
Comments
<strong>A small selection of things I hate:
1) Serial ATA
2) 10GB Ethernet
3) USB 2.0
Why? They all have one thing in common. They are inhibiting FireWire as the single high speed wired connection standard.
FireWire r0x0r, these sUx0r.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just wanted to ask the audience to compare the quality of a USB connector to a Fire Wire connector (either type).
FIREWIRE: Has Metal on metal contact that is locked into place using the naturally occuring springy aspect of the metal pins. Also there is a double plug action. The plug is generally a male plug, but inside the female socket there is another male plug. Thus giving more surface area to lock into.
horrible example of fire wire plug:
|==> ]=== (socket)
|==> ]===
note that the socket (brackets) plug inbetween the two arrows also. Better yet, you go look at a dam* firewire port your self. (it's easier that way)
USB. You've gotta foam pad serving as the spring with four pins laying on that. Sometimes the foam looses it's funk and you have to bend the metal under it to get the pins to make contact with the socket. Even though you have the same basic socket/plug ideas as with firewire, the foam here is generally the "spring." (which is bad, but I probably don't have to say that too loud.)
FireWire is a better standard, both in speed (FireWire 800) and in plug design (don't have to bend the plug to get it to work like with USB). Hey, also with Firewire A (that's the big one) you get 6 pins for added stability.
WHOA.
-walloo!
[ 03-10-2003: Message edited by: willywalloo ]</p>
The 970 is to be named "G-5" to get us G4 owners in nostalgic mode, remembering 1999 the G5 will be introduced late November as "the first supercomputer extreme"- the line up will be SP 800MHz-900MHz and 1 GHz but then they are down clocked to 700-800-900 Hz and kept at that speed for a loooooong time
Just kidding, thanks to big blue the that will put back power in the Power PC, Apple will have serious CPU power and not jut be a Mr nice GUI.
I better stop before an other pun pop up
<strong>
FireWire is a better standard, both in speed (FireWire 800) and in plug design (don't have to bend the plug to get it to work like with USB). Hey, also with Firewire A (that's the big one) you get 6 pins for added stability.
WHOA.
-walloo!
[ 03-10-2003: Message edited by: willywalloo ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
... actually, the FW A plug is a flawed design, it blew the Mobo on my Titanium because it's too easy for the Power Pins to cross connect by accident with the data pins, all it takes is just a bit of the wrong wiggle when you're hot plugging and poof!
True it doesn't happen very often (it took a year of hot plugging before it finally did), but the fact that it CAN happen, says this is one that got under the radar. The service guy confirmed my suspicions also ... I wasn't the first Titanium he saw with a toasted Mobo thanks to FW A.
Ever since, as far as I'm concerned, FW A ISN'T hot pluggable! (Ironically, back when I was a service guy, I rescued more than a few SCSI drives by breaking the rules and plugging them in when the power was on, and I never blew a drive or a mobo! NOT recommended of course ...)
I'm sure FW B has solved this issue.
<strong>They just need to hold on for 2 years. After that, we'll have a democrat in the white house and the economy should be rebounding and the 970 should be nearing 3.ghz
You weren't one of those confused 'ballot' people were you?
Seriously, I don't think it would matter if Al Gore was in office, the economy just sucks. Clinton took credit for the internet boom, but he had absolutely nothing to do with it. You and I decide that (well, investors do too.) And I hate to even try and imagine what kind of mess we would be in had Gore been the one visiting the WTC site after Sept 11. Scary!
<strong>Let's keep the politics out of FH, please.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Past politics, as well...so sorry.
<a href="http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=40454"; target="_blank">http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=40454</a>;
<strong>Here's an article I just saw in which Tim Dougherty, director of blade server strategy for IBM, talks about IBM blade servers using power4 and xeon chips and doesn't even mention the powerpc970. It doesn't really mean anything but seemed worth posting.
<a href="http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=40454"; target="_blank">http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=40454</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
quote from the article:
"IBM also plans to introduce blade servers based on its Power4 RISC processor by year-end, said Dougherty. By then, a single chassis will allow solution providers to mix and match two-way and four-way blade servers based on either Intel or Power4 processors, he said."
wouldn't that be IBM's 970??
If you are not going to make good use of the LCD screen before the PM gets here, it's not wise to buy any equipment before its needed. While I sincerly doubt that the LCD interface will change, the 970 will be introduced anywhere from May 2003 to early 2004 (unless something goes horribly wrong).
If it's on the later side, then there's a good chance that a better LCD monitor for the same price, or the same LCD monitor for a better price will be available at that time.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: Tom West ]</p>
<strong>
quote from the article:
"IBM also plans to introduce blade servers based on its Power4 RISC processor by year-end, said Dougherty. By then, a single chassis will allow solution providers to mix and match two-way and four-way blade servers based on either Intel or Power4 processors, he said."
wouldn't that be IBM's 970??</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Power4 is a PPC risk chip. The PPC 970 is a rendition of this chip witch makes it part of the Power4 family. The regular Power4 draws Way to much power to be used in the blade, so it must be the 970 he is talking about.
<strong>
The Power4 is a PPC risc chip. The PPC 970 is a rendition of this chip witch makes it part of the Power4 family. The regular Power4 draws Way to much power to be used in the blade, so it must be the 970 he is talking about.
Thank you, I would tend to agree. That would mean the 970 will be in an IBM blade at least by the end of the year.....ummm, and this would indicate what concerning the availability of the IBM 970 for use by Apple? bear in mind the German hiccup concerning the speed running @ 1.8 - 2.5GHz. mmmmm.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
<strong>
You weren't one of those confused 'ballot' people were you?
Seriously, I don't think it would matter if Al Gore was in office, the economy just sucks. Clinton took credit for the internet boom, but he had absolutely nothing to do with it. You and I decide that (well, investors do too.) And I hate to even try and imagine what kind of mess we would be in had Gore been the one visiting the WTC site after Sept 11. Scary!
Yea, confused about how Gore received the majority of ballots yet Bush got the victory
I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.
<strong>
I rather expect you'll find a lot of people in the engineering or scientific fields would switch to OS X if it had the software support. There's a sizeable workstation unix market, at least in revenue terms. Just ask Sun.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I doubt that it will take off like a firestorm until Apple decides to actually document their software instead of relying on osmosis or Apple hackers. Try using NetInfo to start a service you developed or just temporarily bring up telnetd for that matter. Don't even mention integrating with an existing NIS server... To be considered a "workstation" these little tidbits must be documented in a Mother of all Mac Documents delivered on the CD.
Anycase, Apple is going in the right direction, and they have done a good job, but just because they have a Unix implementation does not mean that everyone will just abandon their Solaris/Linux/AIX/etc. At a minimum they must document those aspects of the platform that are different from "normal" Unix. Ask yourself the question: What do I have to do to enable mouse-over window focus when running Apple's X11? Hint: Do not look in /etc/X11/...
PS: Apple actually listens, I personally wrote them a letter asking that they support X11, not relying on third parties. Got it! I asked for mouse-over window focus. Got it! (I doubt that I was the only one writing.)
Apple listens, we simply need to tell them what is of genuine concern and give valid reasons. Where I work Apple Macs are seen as viable replacements for the Sun workstations we currently use, lack of documentation not withstanding. If only the bloody economy would get moving!
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: iCode ]
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: iCode ]</p>
970 announcement at MWNY, for shipment September 01: Two models; 1.6 GHz and 1.8 GHz, both uniprocessor and designed to act as a mop for a certain degree of latent demand in the Holiday quarter ending 31/12.
Result: Publicity now, sales in this financial year, and a semi-reasonable holiday quarter; also provides light at the end of the tunnel for all those who want/need something more serious.
MWSF 04 - announcement of speed bumps, 1.6 GHz disappears, 1.8 becomes "fast", 2.0 GHz becomes "faster", two-way 2.2 GHz is new "best" plus "10.3" which will provide 64-bithood to significant elements of the various APIs therein.
Result: Publicity then, sales in the "quiet" quarters, and a platform to go on to NAB and NAMM, as well as spiking the publicity guns of the Evil Empire and anything it might announce at CES 04.
Summer 04 speed bump: 2.0GHz "Fast", 2.2GHz "better", 2 x 2.2 GHz "faster", 2 x 2.5 GHz "best".
All goes quiet until 0.09 micron for MWSF 05, including release of 970-powered PowerBooks (low-voltage) and 970-powered iMacs which will be three years old and due for a redesign.
xServe will get a big brother in 2004: 4-way 970, 2.2GHz plus PCI-X and a few other "hot" technologies just after MWSF. 2.5GHz sometime in the Autumn.
In my universe, you would take the 970 to its logical conclusion before adopting 980 sometime in 2006 for the pro line (2007 for the iMac). This would leave Apple some space to use 970 in a diffusion line - perhaps recycling the old Power Computing brand - that would be 32-bit/2GB RAM only with support for only FW400 and USB and without any of the "exotic" stuff found in the main Apple brand.
This would allow the delivery of a "dime bag" Mac - probably under $1000 in 2007 money that would relieve the demand for a "cheap" Macintosh without cannabilising the sales of the full line.
Makes sense to me, but then I'm on medication.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist ]</p>
<strong>
Yea, confused about how Gore received the majority of ballots yet Bush got the victory
I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
...you do know we have an electoral college, right. and this isn't the first time its happened, right?
Its not like its black art. Its law.
And, BTW, before you draw any conclusions, I greatly dislike Bush. But the Constitution is the Constitution. Pretty straight forward.
So lets sweep that one under the rug, shall we?
Apple does seem to be tightening the noose a little in the ADC. Maybe they have some news coming out at WWDC they don't spread around. Uhm, maybe like 64bit which pretty much lets the cat out of the bag.
I mean, like developers of all kinds gotta know at some point before Apple releases the hardware.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: mooseman ]</p>
<strong>I can't refute the rest as Amorph will have a hissy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someday, somewhere though...
As far as this thread goes, I simply cannot see Apple not announcing that the 970 will indeed be the star of the show and give us a glimpse of OS X in all it's 64-bit goodness in a pre-release Powermac. Probably not show too much of the box at all, or perhaps even a wind-tunnel PM, but you know it is coming.