......is yet another bad habit that Mac users have picked up from PC users.
ROFLMAO what are the other "bad habits"? umm... defragging their hard disk every few hours? putting blue neon lights into their cases?
i take it you're not too concerned that you can overclock your gpu from 300 to 330mhz and vram from 400 to 420mhz to get a 19% improvement in average fps in doom 3 ???
i have a bad habit of using underscores instead of spaces, always having a .3_letter_extension, and never using Capitals in my filenames...
hmurchinson, i love your comments, you're so 'purist' (not a bad thing, i minored in computer science so i appreciate where you're coming from)
i grew up a PC geek once my brother (older) moved on from a Apple IIE to a XT and then x86, pentium, etc... only got back in the Mac scene in 2000 when i started working as a web designer in san francisco for a few years...
of all the people that bitch about the G5s (including me sometimes), i wonder how many have actually sat down in front of one? not to sound self-righteous, but i have bought and used a single 1.6ghz g5 for a few months and i have worked on dual 1.8 or 2+ ghz g5s when freelancing a few days/weeks at ad agencies last year
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
Actually you can defrag OSX (Journaled), it's just not recommended. OSX auto defrags any file that's 20mb or less. You might consider defragging a HD that's used for video because larger files are consistently deleted or moved, big gaps can cause some slow down. In general it's not needed.
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
ha ha... see my edited rambling above...
anyway from my research into the price range of an ati gpu upgrade card ($200-$500) usd, i have finally come to terms with the gpu issue personally, i need to sleep soon so i will say though that in terms of marketing, apple may need to look at damage to brand image when it comes to this "their GPUs suck and you can't play games on it" perception. whether this perception affects their bottom line or the halo effect, i can't say because i'm not getting paid $80,000+ a year to work in apple marketing... and i don't know the answer
Actually you can defrag OSX (Journaled), it's just not recommended. OSX auto defrags any file that's 20mb or less. You might consider defragging a HD that's used for video because larger files are consistently deleted or moved, big gaps can cause some slow down. In general it's not needed.
yeah i definitely have like, where's the defrag application? flashbacks sometimes when i sit in front of os X, and wonder about booting from a cd and running norton speedisk for mac
but then every month or so i just run Onyx and feel clean and fresh once my iBook is Onyx'ed, just takes 30mins or so...
also whenever applications install and it says "optimising hd" i have that warm fuzzy feeling that some sort of auto-defragging is happening
yeah i definitely have like, where's the defrag application? flashbacks sometimes when i sit in front of os X, and wonder about booting from a cd and running norton speedisk for mac
but then every month or so i just run Onyx and feel clean and fresh once my iBook is Onyx'ed, just takes 30mins or so...
also whenever applications install and it says "optimising hd" i have that warm fuzzy feeling that some sort of auto-defragging is happening
apple may need to look at damage to brand image when it comes to this "their GPUs suck and you can't play games on it" perception.
What "perception"? Try "fact".
Macs *are* poor for gaming in general. Where are all the games? Where is joystick and game controller support? Where are affordable machines with enough GPU to support modern games ported to the Mac? If you see an ad of a cool game and want to play it, nine times out of ten it won't be available for the Mac.
Powermac base graphics are good and appropriate, but upgrade opportunities are terrible. If you're looking for a reasonable power increase but not a terribly expensive one, you have to go through the bother of selling the included card, and then buy something like the 9800 Pro. And the pain does not stop there. You're going to pay something like $250 for an old card that sells for $150 for Windows, and that is trounced by $200 cards like the Geforce 6600GT. Especially in OpenGL.
I think Apple's best tools in the gaming field are increasing overall marketshare, making sure cross-platform developers have an easy time, and injecting more GPU power into their mainstream hardware.
Macs *are* poor for gaming in general. Where are all the games? Where is joystick and game controller support? Where are affordable machines with enough GPU to support modern games ported to the Mac? If you see an ad of a cool game and want to play it, nine times out of ten it won't be available for the Mac.
....... ........
I think Apple's best tools in the gaming field are increasing overall marketshare, making sure cross-platform developers have an easy time, and injecting more GPU power into their mainstream hardware.
yes, your last paragraph is the first time i've seen someone actually suggest a strategy for Apple rather than just whine. i would agree this would be the strategy to address brand image damage from the perception/fact that macs suck at games
The saddest pice of PM kit is still the 1.8Ghz single though, with it's mighty mighty 5200. I mean ... bleh.
Yep - let's face it, that configuration is a rip-off. Lets see what $1500.00 gets a consumer on the PowerMac platform:
Code:
1.8 ghz PowerPC processor
256mb PC3200
80gig SATA drive
5200 Gforce chipset
8x DVD-burner
Now let's see what $1500.00 get a consumer on the AMD64 platform:
Code:
2.4 ghz AMD 3800+
1gig PC3200
200gig SATA drive
Pioneer dual-layer DVD burner
ATI X800 PRO GT PCI-E video card 256mb
Li Lian PC70 case
asus A8V
1.44 floppy!
really big power supply (430+)
$1430.00 shipped (newegg.com)
Obiviously, Apple has a much higher standard of quality than your average PC, but if you compare the two specs in terms of storage, optical, memory, and video card your getting more then twice the system for 8-10 precent less. And this is standard components, not proprietary Apple hardware that you can only purchase though Apple Inc.
Semi-fly, that's a *really* apples to oranges comparison.
The Powermac in base configuration makes sense for *very* few people, they are going to upgrade it, BTO or aftermarket. Ergo, at the price point you have chosen, the Powermac as a whole makes no sense whatsoever for most people. It's like you complained that $10000 only gets you a rusty, worn out, used Ferrari. You have no business in the Ferrari market if you only got that much!
The PC is a no-holds-barred obviously gaming-geared configuration that few manufacturers will offer. Does the newegg price even include assembly and whole-computer warranty? What's a X800 Pro GT?
You see the full extent of the problem if you look at the $1000 and slightly below price point, where the best AMD64 value resides. You get a processor in the 3200+ ballpark, either Geforce 6600GT or Radeon X800XL, and still have money left over to pay for assembly and warranty to a small computer shop. Total system speed could be around 75% of your configuration's at a realistic $1000 only using quality parts.
Semi-fly, that's a *really* apples to oranges comparison.
\
Well, as I stated in my post, you can't really compare the quality of Apple hardware to PC hardware - Apple has higher standards, which means you'll see less faulty components, better testing on new hardware, and realiable warranties that you can trust. The point I attempted to make was that some "consumers" will look at a BTO option like the 250 gb SATA drive and wonder why that adds $150.00 to the price tag. The previous single 1.8 model's didn't even include a super drive: that was a $150.00 option, if I rember correctly. The performance / quality diffrences between a 1.8 G5 and a AMD 3800 64 are moot to most buyers if the AMD system has double the drive space, tripple the memory, and a video card that easily out performs a 5200.
Comments
Originally posted by Relic
Yeah there's a place with a big disclaimer, "Uh yeah like this computer has been overclocked or something, thanx for uhh not suing."
well you would think that if this is only a theory, at least someone has opened up their PM and checked on the chip. maybe nobody cares enough?
Originally posted by hmurchison
......is yet another bad habit that Mac users have picked up from PC users.
ROFLMAO
i have a bad habit of using underscores instead of spaces, always having a .3_letter_extension, and never using Capitals in my filenames...
hmurchinson, i love your comments, you're so 'purist' (not a bad thing, i minored in computer science so i appreciate where you're coming from)
i grew up a PC geek once my brother (older) moved on from a Apple IIE to a XT and then x86, pentium, etc... only got back in the Mac scene in 2000 when i started working as a web designer in san francisco for a few years...
of all the people that bitch about the G5s (including me sometimes), i wonder how many have actually sat down in front of one? not to sound self-righteous, but i have bought and used a single 1.6ghz g5 for a few months and i have worked on dual 1.8 or 2+ ghz g5s when freelancing a few days/weeks at ad agencies last year
okay </end ramble>
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Heheheheheh
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
Actually you can defrag OSX (Journaled), it's just not recommended. OSX auto defrags any file that's 20mb or less. You might consider defragging a HD that's used for video because larger files are consistently deleted or moved, big gaps can cause some slow down. In general it's not needed.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Heheheheheh
Sunil the constant desire to defrag was "exactly" what else I was thinking. Guess I'm not the only one that kind laughs when they switch over and say
"Why doesn't Apple have a damn defragging tool?"
Folks...the update is plane jane for sure but I think we have some cool hardware coming at MWSF. For those that can't wait they're still getting a good computer.
ha ha... see my edited rambling above...
anyway from my research into the price range of an ati gpu upgrade card ($200-$500) usd, i have finally come to terms with the gpu issue personally, i need to sleep soon so i will say though that in terms of marketing, apple may need to look at damage to brand image when it comes to this "their GPUs suck and you can't play games on it" perception. whether this perception affects their bottom line or the halo effect, i can't say because i'm not getting paid $80,000+ a year to work in apple marketing... and i don't know the answer
Originally posted by Relic
Actually you can defrag OSX (Journaled), it's just not recommended. OSX auto defrags any file that's 20mb or less. You might consider defragging a HD that's used for video because larger files are consistently deleted or moved, big gaps can cause some slow down. In general it's not needed.
yeah i definitely have like, where's the defrag application? flashbacks sometimes when i sit in front of os X, and wonder about booting from a cd and running norton speedisk for mac
but then every month or so i just run Onyx and feel clean and fresh once my iBook is Onyx'ed, just takes 30mins or so...
also whenever applications install and it says "optimising hd" i have that warm fuzzy feeling that some sort of auto-defragging is happening
Originally posted by sunilraman
yeah i definitely have like, where's the defrag application? flashbacks sometimes when i sit in front of os X, and wonder about booting from a cd and running norton speedisk for mac
but then every month or so i just run Onyx and feel clean and fresh once my iBook is Onyx'ed, just takes 30mins or so...
also whenever applications install and it says "optimising hd" i have that warm fuzzy feeling that some sort of auto-defragging is happening
From the horses mouth about defragging.
Originally posted by Relic
From the horses mouth about defragging.
they forgot to add the following lines marked in bold
"If you think you might need to defragment
Try restarting first. It might help, and it's easy to do.
If you still think you might need to defragment
take a few breaths, and remember, you're not using a windows PC
"
Originally posted by sunilraman
apple may need to look at damage to brand image when it comes to this "their GPUs suck and you can't play games on it" perception.
What "perception"? Try "fact".
Macs *are* poor for gaming in general. Where are all the games? Where is joystick and game controller support? Where are affordable machines with enough GPU to support modern games ported to the Mac? If you see an ad of a cool game and want to play it, nine times out of ten it won't be available for the Mac.
Powermac base graphics are good and appropriate, but upgrade opportunities are terrible. If you're looking for a reasonable power increase but not a terribly expensive one, you have to go through the bother of selling the included card, and then buy something like the 9800 Pro. And the pain does not stop there. You're going to pay something like $250 for an old card that sells for $150 for Windows, and that is trounced by $200 cards like the Geforce 6600GT. Especially in OpenGL.
I think Apple's best tools in the gaming field are increasing overall marketshare, making sure cross-platform developers have an easy time, and injecting more GPU power into their mainstream hardware.
Originally posted by sunilraman
they forgot to add the following lines marked in bold
"If you think you might need to defragment
Try restarting first. It might help, and it's easy to do.
If you still think you might need to defragment
take a few breaths, and remember, you're not using a windows PC
"
In other words, Norton Utilities for Mac OS X = Snake Oil.
But Windows users really do need to optimize their HDs. I almost feel sorry for them.
Originally posted by Gon
What "perception"? Try "fact".
Macs *are* poor for gaming in general. Where are all the games? Where is joystick and game controller support? Where are affordable machines with enough GPU to support modern games ported to the Mac? If you see an ad of a cool game and want to play it, nine times out of ten it won't be available for the Mac.
....... ........
I think Apple's best tools in the gaming field are increasing overall marketshare, making sure cross-platform developers have an easy time, and injecting more GPU power into their mainstream hardware.
yes, your last paragraph is the first time i've seen someone actually suggest a strategy for Apple rather than just whine. i would agree this would be the strategy to address brand image damage from the perception/fact that macs suck at games
I LOVE THE NEW POWERMACS AND WISH I HAD ONE!!!!
Originally posted by ineedag5pbnow
in a deliberate attempt to destroy this thread...
I LOVE THE NEW POWERMACS AND WISH I HAD ONE!!!!
Being caught up in your deliberate scheme I will counter attack your feeble attempt to destroy this thread ..
Take this;
?Then why don?t you marry it!?
And this;
I?ll send you pictures of one later to taunt you.
Originally posted by Eric_Z
The saddest pice of PM kit is still the 1.8Ghz single though, with it's mighty mighty 5200. I mean ... bleh.
Yep - let's face it, that configuration is a rip-off. Lets see what $1500.00 gets a consumer on the PowerMac platform:
1.8 ghz PowerPC processor
256mb PC3200
80gig SATA drive
5200 Gforce chipset
8x DVD-burner
Now let's see what $1500.00 get a consumer on the AMD64 platform:
2.4 ghz AMD 3800+
1gig PC3200
200gig SATA drive
Pioneer dual-layer DVD burner
ATI X800 PRO GT PCI-E video card 256mb
Li Lian PC70 case
asus A8V
1.44 floppy!
really big power supply (430+)
$1430.00 shipped (newegg.com)
Obiviously, Apple has a much higher standard of quality than your average PC, but if you compare the two specs in terms of storage, optical, memory, and video card your getting more then twice the system for 8-10 precent less. And this is standard components, not proprietary Apple hardware that you can only purchase though Apple Inc.
The Powermac in base configuration makes sense for *very* few people, they are going to upgrade it, BTO or aftermarket. Ergo, at the price point you have chosen, the Powermac as a whole makes no sense whatsoever for most people. It's like you complained that $10000 only gets you a rusty, worn out, used Ferrari. You have no business in the Ferrari market if you only got that much!
The PC is a no-holds-barred obviously gaming-geared configuration that few manufacturers will offer. Does the newegg price even include assembly and whole-computer warranty? What's a X800 Pro GT?
You see the full extent of the problem if you look at the $1000 and slightly below price point, where the best AMD64 value resides. You get a processor in the 3200+ ballpark, either Geforce 6600GT or Radeon X800XL, and still have money left over to pay for assembly and warranty to a small computer shop. Total system speed could be around 75% of your configuration's at a realistic $1000 only using quality parts.
Apple has absolutely nothing to offer at $1000.
I'm going to buy a $580 video card that's AGP?
while the PC version is $50 LESS and is PCI express.
Apple obviously doesn't care about graphic performance.
Originally posted by Gon
Semi-fly, that's a *really* apples to oranges comparison.
Well, as I stated in my post, you can't really compare the quality of Apple hardware to PC hardware - Apple has higher standards, which means you'll see less faulty components, better testing on new hardware, and realiable warranties that you can trust. The point I attempted to make was that some "consumers" will look at a BTO option like the 250 gb SATA drive and wonder why that adds $150.00 to the price tag. The previous single 1.8 model's didn't even include a super drive: that was a $150.00 option, if I rember correctly. The performance / quality diffrences between a 1.8 G5 and a AMD 3800 64 are moot to most buyers if the AMD system has double the drive space, tripple the memory, and a video card that easily out performs a 5200.
(http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p...256E&class=vga)
Originally posted by webmail
why the bleep would Apple not include PCI express?
I'm going to buy a $580 video card that's AGP?
while the PC version is $50 LESS and is PCI express.
Apple obviously doesn't care about graphic performance.
You don't actually believe the PCI-Express is faster than the AGP do you?
I think we can definately state that if you're a tinker/enthusias then Apple's computer hardware under $2k stinks.
If you value simplicity and design then you like Apple at $1300-1900.
I'm ok with an iMac for my needs in the near future but someday soon I'll be hunting the big animals heheheh.
(apologies added by user