Wow, that's all I can say after watching the NASA one. I have a Dual 2.0Ghz Rev. B G5 with the 9600XT, 2.5GB RAM, & 20" ACD, I went full screen on the QT7 NASA video and yeah it's sharper then most DVD's I watch....Amazing
Wow, that's all I can say after watching the NASA one. I have a Dual 2.0Ghz Rev. B G5 with the 9600XT, 2.5GB RAM, & 20" ACD, I went full screen on the QT7 NASA video and yeah it's sharper then most DVD's I watch....Amazing
NASA clip is not even "full spec" HD, it is 720p, which is the 'lower' 1280x720 HDTV spec (as broadcast now by ABC and Fox in the usa If i recall correct)
Try the HD FULL SPEC 1920x1080 clips (i think serenity and batman begins you can download the higher res 1080p version) and see how it is although the resolution of these clips exceed your 20" cinema display i think
i'm on a g4 1.5ghz powerbook, and i'm less than impressed with the fluidity of 720p playback. quite choppy at any size.
at least the DVD to near-DVD resolutions are very smooth on my iBook G4 933mhz, os 10.3.9 with quicktime 7:
check out my new Quicktime7-encoded clips
if you feel like a break from high-definition and sick of just trailers, trailers, trailers, and you want to see an actual clip from matrix revolutions
Test Clips Here... Short clips from Matrix Revolutions (see important disclaimer below)
CLIP 03 is NICE at 2kbits/sec man... remember that these clips are re-encoded from a DVD MPEG-2 compressed approx 816x336 clip
quality would be great if you had a high-def uncompressed source, no? and something like Sorenson Pro AVC h.264 codec to give you that 'encoding edge'. but for $30 bucks, this is pretty sweet cutting edge h.264
and they play back well on quicktime7 for panther 10.3.9 even fullscreen, even on my iBook G4 933mhz 256mb ram. well done apple.
....
disclaimer: the above clip is (c) respective owners. this clip is only used for testing, non-commercial educational purposes
i'm on a g4 1.5ghz powerbook, and i'm less than impressed with the fluidity of 720p playback. quite choppy at any size.
dude fantastic four in full screen has dropped frames but enough for me to view it alright, to get a feel of the 720p res (1280width is actually downscaled on my machine at fullscreen because me display is only 1024x768) - me is iBook g4 933mhz 256mb ram
yours in full screen 720p should be smooth, quicktime7 on 10.3.9 or tiger ??
of course if you don't have qt7 pro you can't watch it full screen and experience a bit more smoothness than watching it in a window \
The Movie Info for Batman Begins 1080 has a resolution of 1920 x 816, which is Cinema Scope ratio (2.35:1). Now that would be a Apple Cinema Display to have!!
Screed ...Please God let that movie not suck; the Knight's image has been taking a beating...
This kinda sucks doesn't it? I was hoping to use a 1.4 GHz Mac mini with my newly aquired HDTV. Yeah I know HD in MPEG-2 was just too much for the mini to handle but MPEG-4 can't do it either?
How about more realistic datarates? Or is it all based on resolution? Could you get a 720p video to run well on a 1.4 GHz (G4) Mac with tweaking settings? Same for 1080i I suppose, but if it can be done with 720p then there is no reason not for 1080i (both use the same bandwidth).
1080p though... that is crazyness. TVs are just now being released that support that. Even my 20" Cinema display would have to downscan it. Haha.
This kinda sucks doesn't it? I was hoping to use a 1.4 GHz Mac mini with my newly aquired HDTV. Yeah I know HD in MPEG-2 was just too much for the mini to handle but MPEG-4 can't do it either?
How about more realistic datarates? Or is it all based on resolution? Could you get a 720p video to run well on a 1.4 GHz (G4) Mac with tweaking settings? Same for 1080i I suppose, but if it can be done with 720p then there is no reason not for 1080i (both use the same bandwidth).
1080p though... that is crazyness. TVs are just now being released that support that. Even my 20" Cinema display would have to downscan it. Haha.
720p on Mac Mini... hmm... i know, it is a concern...
but h.264 is so great (i'm very impressed can you tell?) i'm trying to see if 1024x576 (let's call it 576p will run smooth
that way it feels like one has better-than-dvd-quality and still watch it playback fluidly on da Mac Mini and even my poor 933mhz G4 iBook
816x432 (2.35:1) runs smooth on my 933mhz G4... i'll get back to y'all ... if my iBook doesn't end up melting from overuse and all this h.264 encoding/testing/etc....
"576p" for G4-class Macs would be sweet, because that's 1024x576 pixels for 16:9 , better than dvd, and fits sweet on 1024x768 screens ala iBook...
i do wonder if it IS a DATA RATE thing on the 720p choppiness though
This kinda sucks doesn't it? I was hoping to use a 1.4 GHz Mac mini with my newly aquired HDTV. Yeah I know HD in MPEG-2 was just too much for the mini to handle but MPEG-4 can't do it either?
AVC is move intensive to decode than MPEG-2 for the record. I actually think AVC struggles as much because of the video card though. It really seems to push the video card for some reason.
AVC is move intensive to decode than MPEG-2 for the record. I actually think AVC struggles as much because of the video card though. It really seems to push the video card for some reason.
short of apple or some third-party releasing a usb or firewire decoder thingy with vga/dvi passthrough/overlay (or video cards having decoding routines (mpeg4/avc/etc dsp) built into hardware), decent 720p and above HDTV is not currently possible on G4s.
sorry to say, but early testing seems to indicate that.
there's one problem and one solution with regards to this.
the one problem is that this puts high-def clearly in the zone of G5s, meaning a premium price point for those wanting to set up a computer-based-HDTV home cinema. windows media high-def has a strong advantage because of much cheaper than G5 systems that can handle 720p windows media high def.
the one solution is the better-than-dvd but-not-quite-hdtv pixel size of 1024x576 (16:9). h.264-encoded 1024x576 can play back reasonably well on 1.2ghz and above G4s, i believe. 1024x576 (let's call it Super-DVD just for the sake of it ) could really be the stop-gap for digital distribution, plays back well enough on Mac G4s and mid-level PCs with Quicktime7 h.264 decoding.
576p. Super-DVD
of course, this point is moot because right now there is no physical high-def content available in any reasonable range and quantity, besides HDTV from cable/sat/terrestial broadcasts and besides BitTorrent-etc-rips of those
the ball is very clearly in the court of broadcasters and content owners that have HDTV-ready content. we are "close but no cigar" with respect to an "iFlicks"-esque video-on-demand iTMS Video type thing
in the meantime, it appears that panasonic, sony, toshiba, samsung, sharp, etc, are going to be pushing their wares on the TV side of the convergence fiasco... well, i'm still betting on the PC (Mac hopefully!) side of convergence...
hmm... i love the asthetics of qt7 h264 encoding though, particularly for film content with strong depth of field, it resolves the detail in the in-focus areas very well, while applying heavier compression to the background, so the blurred background is compressed heavier but not in a too-blocky kind of fashion, if you know what i mean...
It is just me or this HD video cries out for one or two SPEs to take some of the decoding load? With such specifications for flawless playback, I could not believe it if Apple has not by next year at least one Macintosh line (consumer or pro, I don't know) with some serious co-processing power from the CELL architecture. And, I think, Core Image/Video/Audio suggest that such architectural changes may come sooner than later.
It is just me or this HD video cries out for one or two SPEs to take some of the decoding load? With such specifications for flawless playback, I could not believe it if Apple has not by next year at least one Macintosh line (consumer or pro, I don't know) with some serious co-processing power from the CELL architecture. And, I think, Core Image/Video/Audio suggest that such architectural changes may come sooner than later.
that's the thing, its a will they or won't they kind of thing... it doesn't even need to be as expensive/complex as a full-blown CELL, it could just be a DSP chip that specialises in mpeg-4-esque decoding
edit: back in 1997-98 i got a matrox "rainbow runner studio" daughter card that clipped onto the matrox mystique vga card... much like those fans for overclockers' GPUs do nowadays... the daughter card was pretty small, and had a few dedicated dsp chips to do mjpeg encoding and decoding.
i reckon HD h.264 (smooth playback, decoding only for now) requires just 1 dedicated dsp chip the size of your thumb in this day and age...
while microsoft courts cable companies with iptv, hdDVD and bluRay slugging it out, and steve finding a new distributor for pixar (along with a bit of "wink wink, nudge nudge, hey you wanna do dvd+quality h.264 video on demand?"), apple has some time...
Wow, that's all I can say after watching the NASA one. I have a Dual 2.0Ghz Rev. B G5 with the 9600XT, 2.5GB RAM, & 20" ACD, I went full screen on the QT7 NASA video and yeah it's sharper then most DVD's I watch....Amazing
Those should be the minimum specs for the QT implementation of h264...God knows that a g4 of any speed choaks on it for some reason.
Yeah sunilraman, I'm interested to hear how this 570p testing goes. I just find it odd that within a year, there will be next generation HD DVD players that will outpit 720p/1080i content and not contain, oh, dual 64-bit 2 GHz supernovas powering it. However they manage, if like said, a special co-porcessor then Apple needs this in their line yesterday.
The year of HD, but most or their line can't decode it at full framerate.
See authoring is one thing, I don't care if I have to wait 5 days for a final render of an HD movie project but their entire consumer and pro lines should have the ability to play HD video without dropping frames. Not the year of HD without that.
Say Sunilraman, just thought of something. How would your 576p (20% reduction from 720p) compare with a decent upconverting DVD player? Sure some of them do a crap job, but a few (Panasonic I believe makes a good one, as does Denon) do their job very well taking a DVD and upscaning to 1080i.
How does 576p look like against 720p powered by a Faroudja decoder?
If a PSP-resolution 11 min. SpongeBob ep looked good at 20 MB we have to have some headroom with low datarate HD.
CLIP 03 is NICE at 2kbits/sec man... remember that these clips are re-encoded from a DVD MPEG-2 compressed approx 816x336 clip
quality would be great if you had a high-def uncompressed source, no? and something like Sorenson Pro AVC h.264 codec to give you that 'encoding edge'. but for $30 bucks, this is pretty sweet cutting edge h.264
and they play back well on quicktime7 for panther 10.3.9 even fullscreen, even on my iBook G4 933mhz 256mb ram. well done apple.
I just find it odd that within a year, there will be next generation HD DVD players that will outpit 720p/1080i content and not contain, oh, dual 64-bit 2 GHz supernovas powering it. However they manage, if like said, a special co-porcessor then Apple needs this in their line yesterday.
The year of HD, but most or their line can't decode it at full framerate.
Right, the only solution I see is CELL. Bring on some SPEs and we are done with HD.
hi peoples, just came back from whitewater rafting today (or greywater rafting you might say, stream volume was somewhat lacking)
anyway appreciate the feedback
quick summary:
1. what i called super-DVD "576p" (1024x576 pixels) appears to not play back smoothly on my iBook G4 933.mhz
2. if your source material is DVD (816x336 pixels approx. for anamorphic 2.35:1) the upscaling in Apple's DVD Player is great. DVI out of this into a 720p plasma and I feel you have something that can compare to some proprietary tv-signal upscalers... re: specifically Faroudja, etc, sorry, don't know, but recently i saw at a Sony demo center some-Sony-box-upscaled "The Incredibles" DVD, and well, it was pretty good, possibly better than Apple's DVD Player upscaling because it's tailored to the display... an upscaling box thingy adds to your hd display cost though
3. aussie john glad to hear that
4. it seems that apple has specifically geared it in this sense:
h.264 encoded stuff:
640x352 pixels and below will run decently on G4-class machines
h.264 encoded stuff
1024x576 and above will not really run decently on G4-class machines
5. hence apple's strategy is clear in this matter.
HDTV (1280x720p and 1920x1080p) will only work smoothly right now in G5s
but h.264 for iChat video, video streaming, web video, etc, in the 640x352 pixels and below range will work okay on G4s
this is the year of HD. IF YOU HAVE A G5 is what apple is saying right now. a CELL or other hardware decoder or some software engineering magic may change this...
but for now, h.264 is best used for web streaming functions on G4s and for those with G5s, well, you can have your cake and eat it to, you get to enjoy 720p at least on a iMac 1.8ghz g5 and above....
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/
I hear it looks damn good.
i'm gonna be all over it "like a kitty on whole milk"
720p runs smoothly on G4 933mhz? that's what i hear. i will confirm shortly
i'm like please plase plaase please please.... 720p yeah !!!111!!1
*slaps self around to break self out of quicktime7 delirium*
*takes a few deep breaths*
Originally posted by O4BlackWRX
Wow, that's all I can say after watching the NASA one. I have a Dual 2.0Ghz Rev. B G5 with the 9600XT, 2.5GB RAM, & 20" ACD, I went full screen on the QT7 NASA video and yeah it's sharper then most DVD's I watch....Amazing
NASA clip is not even "full spec" HD, it is 720p, which is the 'lower' 1280x720 HDTV spec (as broadcast now by ABC and Fox in the usa If i recall correct)
Try the HD FULL SPEC 1920x1080 clips (i think serenity and batman begins you can download the higher res 1080p version) and see how it is
Originally posted by Trans9B
i'm on a g4 1.5ghz powerbook, and i'm less than impressed with the fluidity of 720p playback. quite choppy at any size.
at least the DVD to near-DVD resolutions are very smooth on my iBook G4 933mhz, os 10.3.9 with quicktime 7:
check out my new Quicktime7-encoded clips
if you feel like a break from high-definition and sick of just trailers, trailers, trailers, and you want to see an actual clip from matrix revolutions
Test Clips Here... Short clips from Matrix Revolutions (see important disclaimer below)
(edit: links fixed now)
CLIP 01
5.4mb, (right-click and save as/download)
http://www.phatcraft.com/matrix_revo..._clip.h264.mov
(encoded with Quicktime 7 Pro h.264, single pass,
video rate limited to 1000kbits/sec,
640x272 pixels)
CLIP 02
4.5mb (right-click and save as/download)
http://www.phatcraft.com/matrix_revo...ip.h264.02.mov
(encoded with Quicktime 7 Pro h.264, multi-pass,
video rate limited to 800kbits/sec,
640x272 pixels)
CLIP 03
8.7mb (right-click and save as/download)
http://www.phatcraft.com/matrix_revo...ip.h264.04.mov
(encoded with Quicktime 7 Pro h.264, multi-pass,
video rate target was ~ 1800kbits/sec,
640x272 pixels)
CLIP 03 is NICE at 2kbits/sec man... remember that these clips are re-encoded from a DVD MPEG-2 compressed approx 816x336 clip
quality would be great if you had a high-def uncompressed source, no? and something like Sorenson Pro AVC h.264 codec to give you that 'encoding edge'. but for $30 bucks, this is pretty sweet cutting edge h.264
and they play back well on quicktime7 for panther 10.3.9 even fullscreen, even on my iBook G4 933mhz 256mb ram. well done apple.
....
disclaimer: the above clip is (c) respective owners. this clip is only used for testing, non-commercial educational purposes
....
Originally posted by Trans9B
i'm on a g4 1.5ghz powerbook, and i'm less than impressed with the fluidity of 720p playback. quite choppy at any size.
dude fantastic four in full screen has dropped frames but enough for me to view it alright, to get a feel of the 720p res (1280width is actually downscaled on my machine at fullscreen because me display is only 1024x768) - me is iBook g4 933mhz 256mb ram
yours in full screen 720p should be smooth, quicktime7 on 10.3.9 or tiger ??
of course if you don't have qt7 pro you can't watch it full screen and experience a bit more smoothness than watching it in a window
Screed ...Please God let that movie not suck; the Knight's image has been taking a beating...
How about more realistic datarates? Or is it all based on resolution? Could you get a 720p video to run well on a 1.4 GHz (G4) Mac with tweaking settings? Same for 1080i I suppose, but if it can be done with 720p then there is no reason not for 1080i (both use the same bandwidth).
1080p though... that is crazyness. TVs are just now being released that support that. Even my 20" Cinema display would have to downscan it. Haha.
Originally posted by IonYz
This kinda sucks doesn't it? I was hoping to use a 1.4 GHz Mac mini with my newly aquired HDTV. Yeah I know HD in MPEG-2 was just too much for the mini to handle but MPEG-4 can't do it either?
How about more realistic datarates? Or is it all based on resolution? Could you get a 720p video to run well on a 1.4 GHz (G4) Mac with tweaking settings? Same for 1080i I suppose, but if it can be done with 720p then there is no reason not for 1080i (both use the same bandwidth).
1080p though... that is crazyness. TVs are just now being released that support that. Even my 20" Cinema display would have to downscan it. Haha.
720p on Mac Mini... hmm... i know, it is a concern...
but h.264 is so great (i'm very impressed can you tell?) i'm trying to see if 1024x576 (let's call it 576p will run smooth
that way it feels like one has better-than-dvd-quality and still watch it playback fluidly on da Mac Mini and even my poor 933mhz G4 iBook
816x432 (2.35:1) runs smooth on my 933mhz G4... i'll get back to y'all ... if my iBook doesn't end up melting from overuse and all this h.264 encoding/testing/etc....
"576p" for G4-class Macs would be sweet, because that's 1024x576 pixels for 16:9 , better than dvd, and fits sweet on 1024x768 screens ala iBook...
i do wonder if it IS a DATA RATE thing on the 720p choppiness though
yeah let's not worry about 1080p for now
Originally posted by IonYz
This kinda sucks doesn't it? I was hoping to use a 1.4 GHz Mac mini with my newly aquired HDTV. Yeah I know HD in MPEG-2 was just too much for the mini to handle but MPEG-4 can't do it either?
AVC is move intensive to decode than MPEG-2 for the record. I actually think AVC struggles as much because of the video card though. It really seems to push the video card for some reason.
Originally posted by Telomar
AVC is move intensive to decode than MPEG-2 for the record. I actually think AVC struggles as much because of the video card though. It really seems to push the video card for some reason.
short of apple or some third-party releasing a usb or firewire decoder thingy with vga/dvi passthrough/overlay (or video cards having decoding routines (mpeg4/avc/etc dsp) built into hardware), decent 720p and above HDTV is not currently possible on G4s.
sorry to say, but early testing seems to indicate that.
there's one problem and one solution with regards to this.
the one problem is that this puts high-def clearly in the zone of G5s, meaning a premium price point for those wanting to set up a computer-based-HDTV home cinema. windows media high-def has a strong advantage because of much cheaper than G5 systems that can handle 720p windows media high def.
the one solution is the better-than-dvd but-not-quite-hdtv pixel size of 1024x576 (16:9). h.264-encoded 1024x576 can play back reasonably well on 1.2ghz and above G4s, i believe. 1024x576 (let's call it Super-DVD just for the sake of it
576p. Super-DVD
of course, this point is moot because right now there is no physical high-def content available in any reasonable range and quantity, besides HDTV from cable/sat/terrestial broadcasts and besides BitTorrent-etc-rips of those
the ball is very clearly in the court of broadcasters and content owners that have HDTV-ready content. we are "close but no cigar" with respect to an "iFlicks"-esque video-on-demand iTMS Video type thing
in the meantime, it appears that panasonic, sony, toshiba, samsung, sharp, etc, are going to be pushing their wares on the TV side of the convergence fiasco... well, i'm still betting on the PC (Mac hopefully!) side of convergence...
hmm... i love the asthetics of qt7 h264 encoding though, particularly for film content with strong depth of field, it resolves the detail in the in-focus areas very well, while applying heavier compression to the background, so the blurred background is compressed heavier but not in a too-blocky kind of fashion, if you know what i mean...
Originally posted by PB
It is just me or this HD video cries out for one or two SPEs to take some of the decoding load? With such specifications for flawless playback, I could not believe it if Apple has not by next year at least one Macintosh line (consumer or pro, I don't know) with some serious co-processing power from the CELL architecture. And, I think, Core Image/Video/Audio suggest that such architectural changes may come sooner than later.
that's the thing, its a will they or won't they kind of thing... it doesn't even need to be as expensive/complex as a full-blown CELL, it could just be a DSP chip that specialises in mpeg-4-esque decoding
edit: back in 1997-98 i got a matrox "rainbow runner studio" daughter card that clipped onto the matrox mystique vga card... much like those fans for overclockers' GPUs do nowadays... the daughter card was pretty small, and had a few dedicated dsp chips to do mjpeg encoding and decoding.
i reckon HD h.264 (smooth playback, decoding only for now) requires just 1 dedicated dsp chip the size of your thumb in this day and age...
while microsoft courts cable companies with iptv, hdDVD and bluRay slugging it out, and steve finding a new distributor for pixar (along with a bit of "wink wink, nudge nudge, hey you wanna do dvd+quality h.264 video on demand?"), apple has some time...
Originally posted by O4BlackWRX
Wow, that's all I can say after watching the NASA one. I have a Dual 2.0Ghz Rev. B G5 with the 9600XT, 2.5GB RAM, & 20" ACD, I went full screen on the QT7 NASA video and yeah it's sharper then most DVD's I watch....Amazing
Those should be the minimum specs for the QT implementation of h264...God knows that a g4 of any speed choaks on it for some reason.
The year of HD, but most or their line can't decode it at full framerate.
See authoring is one thing, I don't care if I have to wait 5 days for a final render of an HD movie project but their entire consumer and pro lines should have the ability to play HD video without dropping frames. Not the year of HD without that.
How does 576p look like against 720p powered by a Faroudja decoder?
If a PSP-resolution 11 min. SpongeBob ep looked good at 20 MB we have to have some headroom with low datarate HD.
Originally posted by sunilraman
CLIP 03 is NICE at 2kbits/sec man... remember that these clips are re-encoded from a DVD MPEG-2 compressed approx 816x336 clip
quality would be great if you had a high-def uncompressed source, no? and something like Sorenson Pro AVC h.264 codec to give you that 'encoding edge'. but for $30 bucks, this is pretty sweet cutting edge h.264
and they play back well on quicktime7 for panther 10.3.9 even fullscreen, even on my iBook G4 933mhz 256mb ram. well done apple.
.... [/B]
And they playback well on my G4-400 laptop too
Originally posted by IonYz
I just find it odd that within a year, there will be next generation HD DVD players that will outpit 720p/1080i content and not contain, oh, dual 64-bit 2 GHz supernovas powering it. However they manage, if like said, a special co-porcessor then Apple needs this in their line yesterday.
The year of HD, but most or their line can't decode it at full framerate.
Right, the only solution I see is CELL. Bring on some SPEs and we are done with HD.
anyway appreciate the feedback
quick summary:
1. what i called super-DVD "576p" (1024x576 pixels) appears to not play back smoothly on my iBook G4 933.mhz
2. if your source material is DVD (816x336 pixels approx. for anamorphic 2.35:1) the upscaling in Apple's DVD Player is great. DVI out of this into a 720p plasma and I feel you have something that can compare to some proprietary tv-signal upscalers... re: specifically Faroudja, etc, sorry, don't know, but recently i saw at a Sony demo center some-Sony-box-upscaled "The Incredibles" DVD, and well, it was pretty good, possibly better than Apple's DVD Player upscaling because it's tailored to the display... an upscaling box thingy adds to your hd display cost though
3. aussie john glad to hear that
4. it seems that apple has specifically geared it in this sense:
h.264 encoded stuff:
640x352 pixels and below will run decently on G4-class machines
h.264 encoded stuff
1024x576 and above will not really run decently on G4-class machines
5. hence apple's strategy is clear in this matter.
HDTV (1280x720p and 1920x1080p) will only work smoothly right now in G5s
but h.264 for iChat video, video streaming, web video, etc, in the 640x352 pixels and below range will work okay on G4s
this is the year of HD. IF YOU HAVE A G5 is what apple is saying right now. a CELL or other hardware decoder or some software engineering magic may change this...
but for now, h.264 is best used for web streaming functions on G4s and for those with G5s, well, you can have your cake and eat it to, you get to enjoy 720p at least on a iMac 1.8ghz g5 and above....