Price stays $2999 for basic high end; PCI-E likely, but I doubt we'll see HDMI. Also, it'll probably be a quad 2.5GHz, given what's going on with AMD. If IBM manages to stay at 2.7 or up it to 3.0, I'll be truly wowed.
Hmmm - yeah I think I'll stay away from them. But I saw someone post pictures of a recent dual 2.5 they bought, and the cooling system is apparantly now made by Panasonic. The unit looked much sleaker and didn't have so many parts.
That is some very, very good news. Looks like Apple got fed up with the other supplier. Now it makes more sense why Apple kept the liquid cooling for the 2.7 GHz Powermacs - maybe the new supplier guarantees them for longer.
If you need a new Mac, get it! Tiger is awesome! Even if you only got a dual 2.3, it so blows away the dual 1.42 G4, it'd be silly not to get it. So maybe Apple comes out with something faster in 6 months. They often do. That's why it's best to buy when something is new rather than wait a few months.
Oh, and Tiger is fabulous! I got it this morning and have been having fun all day!
If you are making a living off the Mac I would recommend going with the G5 (probably the 2.3) and spending money on 3rd party RAM. You can get a few dollars on the old rig off ebay and increase your productivity now. When Apple comes out with a dual dual-core sit back and wait for rev b, then ebay your 2.3.
I would also recommend looking at the 23" display as Apple has cut the price recently. My son-in-law has a studio and takes my office 23" every time I go out of town on business and also when he needs to get something done quickly. He loves it for studio work and only regrets that I won't let him have it all the time . . .
In terms of money, you'll be able to write off a new G5 and 23" display in your 2005 tax return, will generate some cash from the old rig and will be more productive. When you're ready for a 3.0 dual dual-core with a 30" display you'll be in the same position of a tax writeoff, ebay cash and more productivity.
I agree with everything kenaustus said. There's a lot to be said for using Tiger on a G5. A G4 just isn't up to the job of playing H.264 video at higher resolutions and especially not for HD. H.264 is very processor intensive but is acceptable on a G4 at lower resolutions.
I have to think that a dual dual core G5 is going to be a lot more expensive than the existing top end. Some single dual core models could be in the current price range or less but a dual dual core would likely start at $3499 and up. It could be in a whole new price range.
Let's say these new PMs come out 6 months from now. What would the midrange model have and at what price? Here's my guess:
$2,499.00
Dual-core 2.8 GHz PowerPC G5
1.4GHz frontside bus/core
1MB L2 cache
512MB DDR533 SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
250GB SATA II
16x SuperDrive (double-layer) [blu-ray next year]
Three PCI-E Slots
ATI Radeon X700
256MB DDR video memory
Is this worth waiting for? Depends on your situation. It'll definitely be faster and better but Macs are always that way some months after you buy. Just get what you need when you need it.
I just wanted to state the it was well worth upgrading to a new Power Mac G5 system for me. Well, I am assuming that it is going to be worth it. I have not gotten it yet. I ordered the new Dual 2.0 GHz system Friday.
BTW, I am upgrading from an AMD Athlon XP 1.67 GHz Windows PC at home.
Hello, everybody. My name is Kerry and I am a switcher.
Rev B 2.0 G5 dually for multi-track audio recording.
Hehe, yeah ok. I'm a mac fan like the next guy in this forum but I'm calling BS on that graph of your's. Trust me, that dual Opteron smokes the G5 in every bench mark!
I just wanted to state the it was well worth upgrading to a new Power Mac G5 system for me. Well, I am assuming that it is going to be worth it. I have not gotten it yet. I ordered the new Dual 2.0 GHz system Friday.
BTW, I am upgrading from an AMD Athlon XP 1.67 GHz Windows PC at home.
Hello, everybody. My name is Kerry and I am a switcher.
Welcome to the Light Kerry. I have no doubt you made a good choice. I am finally about to buy a tower-type mac to go with my powerbooks. Until now I've always considered my Cube and a 23" Cinema enough! Now with Tiger, I think the time has come to move to G5.
A Quad processor machine would only be of benefit with multiple core technology. A G5 processor at the moment has a Bus all to itself. A Dual core mac would have to share its one Bus. So a Dual core PowerMac would have half the Bus and memory bandwidth as a normal Dual processor PowerMac (i.e. the current ones). Also correct me if I'm wrong, a Dual core processor would create more heat, which would mean that a lower clock rate would be necessary (has this happened with the dual core Athlons?)
A Quad processor machine would only be of benefit with multiple core technology. A G5 processor at the moment has a Bus all to itself. A Dual core mac would have to share its one Bus. So a Dual core PowerMac would have half the Bus and memory bandwidth as a normal Dual processor PowerMac (i.e. the current ones).
Correct, but this isn't a big issue if you have some bandwidth-intensive tasks and some non-bandwidth intensive tasks running at the same time. Alternatively, if two tasks are sharing data then having them run on two cores in the same chip is an advantage.
Quote:
Also correct me if I'm wrong, a Dual core processor would create more heat, which would mean that a lower clock rate would be necessary (has this happened with the dual core Athlons?)
This is probably the biggest problem alright. If they aren't willing to settle for a lower clock rate then they'll have to come up with better cooling solutions and/or improve the process & design sufficiently.
Hehe, yeah ok. I'm a mac fan like the next guy in this forum but I'm calling BS on that graph of your's. Trust me, that dual Opteron smokes the G5 in every bench mark!
You know, I have no doubt that the graph is correct and that the G5 actually smokes the opteron, but not because the G5 is superior to the opteron hardware-wise - I would suspect they are about on par with equally optimized software -, but instead simply because Logic Pro has been heavely optimized to both Mac OS X with core audio, dual processors, G5 and AltiVec (it was already quite well optimized before Apple bought Emagic).
The Windows computers in the test are probably running Cubase or another DAW. Anyhow, There's no doubt that the best choice for a DAW today (measured in raw horse-power for internal effects/synths) really is the G5. Logic combined with core-audio on a G5 kills the competition in many ways.
So, luckily for us, you are in fact not correct that the opteron smokes the G5 in every test
You know, I have no doubt that the graph is correct and that the G5 actually smokes the opteron, but not because the G5 is superior to the opteron hardware-wise - I would suspect they are about on par with equally optimized software -, but instead simply because Logic Pro has been heavely optimized to both Mac OS X with core audio, dual processors, G5 and AltiVec (it was already quite well optimized before Apple bought Emagic).
The Windows computers in the test are probably running Cubase or another DAW. Anyhow, There's no doubt that the best choice for a DAW today (measured in raw horse-power for internal effects/synths) really is the G5. Logic combined with core-audio on a G5 kills the competition in many ways.
So, luckily for us, you are in fact not correct that the opteron smokes the G5 in every test
You're argument is based on "under a certain moon phase condition" ? Ok, if you happen to use Logic Pro as your core app then maybe yes, but I still find Cubase to be the better choice and is friggen amazingly fast on a dual AMD machine. Much more then Logic Pro on a G5, haven't tried Tiger on it however.
The Dual Opteron doesn't smoke a G5 on every test period. That's strictly fanboy hype.
In fact clock for clock I'm actually surprised about how similar the two chips are. Any speed differences seem based on software opts like Power Apple says.
I'm not entirely convinced that Apple will go with a dual cpu/quad core setup at least not for a while anyway. I wonder if there will be issues because of the shared bandwidth that dual core chips will require. Will this affect memory allocation or increase latency? I know that AMD when they designed the Athlon 64 they had the switching pipe for dual core built right into the original design and yet preview benchmarks for these new Athlon X2 show that in many cases the new dual cores aren't as fast as standard dual CPU rigs.
What will be more important for Mac users in general when it comes to dual core is that it will (hopefully quickly) trickle down into the consumer product line-up. If you could sell me a dual core 2.0 iMac G5 with decent video (9600 or better) I would be buying one as fast as I could get my credit card out.
Also there are rumors that a number of architecture improvements have made its way into the 970MP that makes it a more efficient performer per clock cycle.
I have a feeling that the dual core machines will arrive at around 3.0GHZ (IBM has a lot of experience with multi-core chips) sometime in the early fall complete with PCIExpress and some other improvements (maybe a new case).
The PC world isn't going anyway fast with dual core clockspeeds so I'm not expecting us to be left in the dust or anything like that.
Quad systems may arrive at the same time but I don't expect them except in a special limited uber PowerMac.
So, am I correct in saying that no one here expects any major new changes in the G5 PowerMacs before fall at the earliest? This is our footprint and basic architecture?
The liquid cooling issue is still a puzzle to me, I must say, but I think of Great War Machine Guns when I try to sort out the air-cooled from the liquid assisted.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
Man I hope so.
Mmmmmm let's dream
Dual 970MP 3GHz
10.4.2
1GB of RAM
16x DL DVD Burner
400GB hd on 3Gbps SATA connection
Dual Gigabit(TOE) ports
PCI-Express 16x,1x, PCI-X 133(x2) HT 2.0 PCI-Express Bridge
ATI-X8xx 256MB 256-bit graphics
2x FW400/FW800
One external eSATA port
HDMI with audio and DVI breakout adaptor
4 Internal Bays(yeah!)
$3499
Price stays $2999 for basic high end; PCI-E likely, but I doubt we'll see HDMI. Also, it'll probably be a quad 2.5GHz, given what's going on with AMD. If IBM manages to stay at 2.7 or up it to 3.0, I'll be truly wowed.
Quote:
Inside information or swag?
Educated guess.
We'll be stuck with $$$ Firewire output options or crusty toslkink/spdif connections
Originally posted by the cool gut
Hmmm - yeah I think I'll stay away from them. But I saw someone post pictures of a recent dual 2.5 they bought, and the cooling system is apparantly now made by Panasonic. The unit looked much sleaker and didn't have so many parts.
That is some very, very good news. Looks like Apple got fed up with the other supplier. Now it makes more sense why Apple kept the liquid cooling for the 2.7 GHz Powermacs - maybe the new supplier guarantees them for longer.
Oh, and Tiger is fabulous! I got it this morning and have been having fun all day!
Oh, and Tiger is fabulous! I got it this morning and have been having fun all day!
I would also recommend looking at the 23" display as Apple has cut the price recently. My son-in-law has a studio and takes my office 23" every time I go out of town on business and also when he needs to get something done quickly. He loves it for studio work and only regrets that I won't let him have it all the time . . .
In terms of money, you'll be able to write off a new G5 and 23" display in your 2005 tax return, will generate some cash from the old rig and will be more productive. When you're ready for a 3.0 dual dual-core with a 30" display you'll be in the same position of a tax writeoff, ebay cash and more productivity.
I have to think that a dual dual core G5 is going to be a lot more expensive than the existing top end. Some single dual core models could be in the current price range or less but a dual dual core would likely start at $3499 and up. It could be in a whole new price range.
Let's say these new PMs come out 6 months from now. What would the midrange model have and at what price? Here's my guess:
$2,499.00
Dual-core 2.8 GHz PowerPC G5
1.4GHz frontside bus/core
1MB L2 cache
512MB DDR533 SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
250GB SATA II
16x SuperDrive (double-layer) [blu-ray next year]
Three PCI-E Slots
ATI Radeon X700
256MB DDR video memory
Is this worth waiting for? Depends on your situation. It'll definitely be faster and better but Macs are always that way some months after you buy. Just get what you need when you need it.
BTW, I am upgrading from an AMD Athlon XP 1.67 GHz Windows PC at home.
Hello, everybody. My name is Kerry and I am a switcher.
For $1699 ( education Red Tag Sale )
I'm going to be fine with a (pre crippled)
Rev B 2.0 G5 dually for multi-track audio recording.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/
For $1699 ( education Red Tag Sale )
I'm going to be fine with a (pre crippled)
Rev B 2.0 G5 dually for multi-track audio recording.
Hehe, yeah ok. I'm a mac fan like the next guy in this forum but I'm calling BS on that graph of your's. Trust me, that dual Opteron smokes the G5 in every bench mark!
Either way, IF I EVER can figure out how to run a DAW at all will be enough of a challenge, so I doubt I'll be maxing out this machine any time soon.
I'm also still looking at another grand ++ for interfaces and DAW software so
The price, value, performance of a 2.0 Rev B was a bit out of scale
at last weeks price of $2299, but @ $1699.
this is a bargain!
It's like 700% faster than my 300MHz beige G3
I'm getting dual G5 2.0GHz performance and expandibility
for less than the price of a combo drive 15" PB
It took me 10 months to study my options and I think I've made a pretty good choice.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
It's right off the Apple performance page, those aren't my specs.
Either way, IF I EVER can figure out how to run a DAW at all will be enough of a challenge, so I doubt I'll be maxing out this machine any time soon.
I'm also still looking at another grand ++ for interfaces and DAW software so
The price, value, performance of a 2.0 Rev B was a bit out of scale
at last weeks price of $2299, but @ $1699.
this is a bargain!
It's like 700% faster than my 300MHz beige G3
I'm getting dual G5 2.0GHz performance and expandibility
for less than the price of a combo drive 15" PB
It took me 10 months to study my options and I think I've made a pretty good choice.
Good choice, I'm making the same and buying the 2Ghz for work.
Originally posted by kwsanders
I just wanted to state the it was well worth upgrading to a new Power Mac G5 system for me. Well, I am assuming that it is going to be worth it. I have not gotten it yet. I ordered the new Dual 2.0 GHz system Friday.
BTW, I am upgrading from an AMD Athlon XP 1.67 GHz Windows PC at home.
Hello, everybody. My name is Kerry and I am a switcher.
Welcome to the Light Kerry. I have no doubt you made a good choice. I am finally about to buy a tower-type mac to go with my powerbooks. Until now I've always considered my Cube and a 23" Cinema enough! Now with Tiger, I think the time has come to move to G5.
A Quad processor machine would only be of benefit with multiple core technology. A G5 processor at the moment has a Bus all to itself. A Dual core mac would have to share its one Bus. So a Dual core PowerMac would have half the Bus and memory bandwidth as a normal Dual processor PowerMac (i.e. the current ones). Also correct me if I'm wrong, a Dual core processor would create more heat, which would mean that a lower clock rate would be necessary (has this happened with the dual core Athlons?)
Originally posted by mattyj
A Quad processor machine would only be of benefit with multiple core technology. A G5 processor at the moment has a Bus all to itself. A Dual core mac would have to share its one Bus. So a Dual core PowerMac would have half the Bus and memory bandwidth as a normal Dual processor PowerMac (i.e. the current ones).
Correct, but this isn't a big issue if you have some bandwidth-intensive tasks and some non-bandwidth intensive tasks running at the same time. Alternatively, if two tasks are sharing data then having them run on two cores in the same chip is an advantage.
Also correct me if I'm wrong, a Dual core processor would create more heat, which would mean that a lower clock rate would be necessary (has this happened with the dual core Athlons?)
This is probably the biggest problem alright. If they aren't willing to settle for a lower clock rate then they'll have to come up with better cooling solutions and/or improve the process & design sufficiently.
Originally posted by Relic
Hehe, yeah ok. I'm a mac fan like the next guy in this forum but I'm calling BS on that graph of your's. Trust me, that dual Opteron smokes the G5 in every bench mark!
You know, I have no doubt that the graph is correct and that the G5 actually smokes the opteron, but not because the G5 is superior to the opteron hardware-wise - I would suspect they are about on par with equally optimized software -, but instead simply because Logic Pro has been heavely optimized to both Mac OS X with core audio, dual processors, G5 and AltiVec (it was already quite well optimized before Apple bought Emagic).
The Windows computers in the test are probably running Cubase or another DAW. Anyhow, There's no doubt that the best choice for a DAW today (measured in raw horse-power for internal effects/synths) really is the G5. Logic combined with core-audio on a G5 kills the competition in many ways.
So, luckily for us, you are in fact not correct that the opteron smokes the G5 in every test
Originally posted by Power Apple
You know, I have no doubt that the graph is correct and that the G5 actually smokes the opteron, but not because the G5 is superior to the opteron hardware-wise - I would suspect they are about on par with equally optimized software -, but instead simply because Logic Pro has been heavely optimized to both Mac OS X with core audio, dual processors, G5 and AltiVec (it was already quite well optimized before Apple bought Emagic).
The Windows computers in the test are probably running Cubase or another DAW. Anyhow, There's no doubt that the best choice for a DAW today (measured in raw horse-power for internal effects/synths) really is the G5. Logic combined with core-audio on a G5 kills the competition in many ways.
So, luckily for us, you are in fact not correct that the opteron smokes the G5 in every test
You're argument is based on "under a certain moon phase condition" ? Ok, if you happen to use Logic Pro as your core app then maybe yes, but I still find Cubase to be the better choice and is friggen amazingly fast on a dual AMD machine. Much more then Logic Pro on a G5, haven't tried Tiger on it however.
In fact clock for clock I'm actually surprised about how similar the two chips are. Any speed differences seem based on software opts like Power Apple says.
What will be more important for Mac users in general when it comes to dual core is that it will (hopefully quickly) trickle down into the consumer product line-up. If you could sell me a dual core 2.0 iMac G5 with decent video (9600 or better) I would be buying one as fast as I could get my credit card out.
Also there are rumors that a number of architecture improvements have made its way into the 970MP that makes it a more efficient performer per clock cycle.
I have a feeling that the dual core machines will arrive at around 3.0GHZ (IBM has a lot of experience with multi-core chips) sometime in the early fall complete with PCIExpress and some other improvements (maybe a new case).
The PC world isn't going anyway fast with dual core clockspeeds so I'm not expecting us to be left in the dust or anything like that.
Quad systems may arrive at the same time but I don't expect them except in a special limited uber PowerMac.
Anyway, my two cents?.
Take care?.
The liquid cooling issue is still a puzzle to me, I must say, but I think of Great War Machine Guns when I try to sort out the air-cooled from the liquid assisted.