Give it a few months, and it would be reasonable to price the 1Gb model at the price which you can currently get a 512MB, and introduce a model with a screen at the 1Gb price mark. That would be an awesome range.
I suppose I am representative of the kind of people this article talks about - I had 1Gb shuffle for a few weeks, but when the 2nd gen mini came out, and it was only an extra £28 (student discount), it was a no-brainer now that it has great battery life. Sold the shuffle on eBay for the same as I paid, and I've never looked back.
But it's not so bad as it's for a pair, and it does include the sub.
I don't want to show anything really expensive as you might fall off your chair.
This paints kind of a misleading picture of the audiophile
market. They might sell 1 or 2 pairs of these speakers per year, and after 5 years the market will be saturated and they have to stop for a while.
The average audiophile stereo is between 5k and 20k total (so the average speakers are $2K to $8K). Speakers above 30k/pair are very rare. My speakers retail for $55K (Nearfield acoustics pipedreams - bought them used for $16K).
Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference between apple Lossless and a 192 k AAC file on a pair of earbuds, while driving a car is high on crack.
I've taste-tested AIFF vs. 160k AAC on studio reference monitors, and while I can detect a difference, it's not worth bothering with as far as audio to go, which has to compete with road noise, it's just not worth it.
I'm curious which mini colors sell best. The new pink, blue, and green turn me off, and I've hardly seen anyone carrying one, but the silver is all over the place, particular popular at my gym. Men and women both seem to favor the silver.
Fair enough. Now for the other 98% of the market...
( when everyone was clamoring for a 60GB iPod, I suspected that few would buy it...this is true so far...just not that many people that have a real need for it. )
P.S. And what is an "audiophile" doing buying an iPod anyway? Aren't they all spending their money on stuff like this?
Sorry, Audiophiles don't buy carver. They buy stuff like this:
Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference between apple Lossless and a 192 k AAC file on a pair of earbuds, while driving a car is high on crack.
I've taste-tested AIFF vs. 160k AAC on studio reference monitors, and while I can detect a difference, it's not worth bothering with as far as audio to go, which has to compete with road noise, it's just not worth it.
I use a pair of Etymotic 4s earbuds (almost as good as expensive reference speakers). I tried out the 1 GB shuffle and thought the sound was horrible when compared to a 20GB 4G (U2). Also, while the sound quality of AIFF vs. 192 AAC is subtle, there IS a difference and there are people who want it.
This paints kind of a misleading picture of the audiophile
market. They might sell 1 or 2 pairs of these speakers per year, and after 5 years the market will be saturated and they have to stop for a while.
The average audiophile stereo is between 5k and 20k total (so the average speakers are $2K to $8K). Speakers above 30k/pair are very rare. My speakers retail for $55K (Nearfield acoustics pipedreams - bought them used for $16K).
I know, it was a tweek
One of the guys, David, in my group named the Pipedreams. He has the original pair. The ones they never made. It uses Panasonic car ribbon speakers. The subs are 22" boxes with two 18 pro drivers. one is inverted because there wasn't enough room in the box. Heavily equal'ed.
They sound better than the commercial versions, though the output levels aren't nearly as high. They never made that model because Panasonic discontinued the drivers. We have 12 extras on hand.
I've been in this business for 30 years on and off. My old company (I was a partner), was Magnum Opus.
I'm curious which mini colors sell best. The new pink, blue, and green turn me off, and I've hardly seen anyone carrying one, but the silver is all over the place, particular popular at my gym. Men and women both seem to favor the silver.
Dan came to out last club meeting to show off his new amps. At $50K they are a bit high. We weren't too thrilled at the overall sound. It could have been his speakers, or the Miyabi 47 cartridge that Hugh has (we're not too fond of that).
Dan came to out last club meeting to show off his new amps. At $50K they are a bit high. We weren't too thrilled at the overall sound. It could have been his speakers, or the Miyabi 47 cartridge that Hugh has (we're not too fond of that).
These days I'm not even sure my 'old' ears can hear a difference anymore between a super set-up and a mediocre one.
Just out of curiosity, would love to hear your thoughts on 'old' Apogee ribbon gear?
These days I'm not even sure my 'old' ears can hear a difference anymore between a super set-up and a mediocre one.
Just out of curiosity, would love to hear your thoughts on 'old' Apogee ribbon gear?
Ha! Apogee had many problems. That's why they disappeared years ago.
Reliability was a major issue, especially with the Scintilla, Diva, and other full range ribbons.
The fact that they ran down to one ohm at spots didn't help their driving ability, they would melt down some amps!
By the time they came out with the smaller Grands with the dynamic bass, they were finished.
Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* full range ribbons.
As a matter of fact, after all the talk about Carver, I still have a pair of Platinums that I heavily modified, with Bob's help (after his hissy fit ended). I ripped out the passive components, modded the drivers, and equal'ed with computer eq. I use a Rane active crossover that I modded to power the (almost) full range ribbons and subs seperately. Too bad his ribbons aren't available today. They were, and to a certain extent still are, way ahead of their time.
The best alternatives I've heard recently are those from Analysis Audio USA:
Ha! Apogee had many problems. That's why they disappeared years ago.
Reliability was a major issue, especially with the Scintilla, Diva, and other full range ribbons.
The fact that they ran down to one ohm at spots didn't help their driving ability, they would melt down some amps!
By the time they came out with the smaller Grands with the dynamic bass, they were finished.
Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* full range ribbons.
As a matter of fact, after all the talk about Carver, I still have a pair of Platinums that I heavily modified, with Bob's help (after his hissy fit ended). I ripped out the passive components, modded the drivers, and equal'ed with computer eq. I use a Rane active crossover that I modded to power the (almost) full range ribbons and subs seperately. Too bad his ribbons aren't available today. They were, and to a certain extent still are, way ahead of their time.
The best alternatives I've heard recently are those from Analysis Audio USA:
wow, it's funny how anal some people are about their music. To me, 128kbps MP3 or AAC files are adequate. 160 and 192 kbps MP3 files are a treat. Anything higher than that is just wasting space and inneficient. It's your money hehe.
wow, it's funny how anal some people are about their music. To me, 128kbps MP3 or AAC files are adequate. 160 and 192 kbps MP3 files are a treat. Anything higher than that is just wasting space and inneficient. It's your money hehe.
You have no ear for quality, or you don't want to spend the money on it. That doesn't make us any more anal than your anti-quality stance is.
You have no ear for quality, or you don't want to spend the money on it. That doesn't make us any more anal than your anti-quality stance is.
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
wow, it's funny how anal some people are about their music. To me, 128kbps MP3 or AAC files are adequate. 160 and 192 kbps MP3 files are a treat. Anything higher than that is just wasting space and inneficient. It's your money hehe.
I could say the same thing to people who rant and rave about getting better video cards, faster processors, faster hard drives, etc. etc. ad nauseum...
I could say the same thing to people who rant and rave about getting better video cards, faster processors, faster hard drives, etc. etc. ad nauseum...
Pick your medicine...
I know what you mean hehe.
No matter how fast my computer's processor, how much RAM I have, how large my HD is... Word and PowerPoint and web browsers keep crashing the same after all these years.
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
Just because you're cheap doesn't mean that there isn't a big difference.
So fine, listen with $5 earbuds and computer speakers, if that makes you happy. That doesn't give you the right to call us anal.
Buddy, you started us down this road, we were enjoying this thread until you came along.
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
No, seriously. There is a difference between gear but of course the law of diminishing returns comes into play here. For instance, a $50,000 amp will not sound 50,000 times better than a $1,000 amp.
If you have some time, go into a high end audio store and listen to some good quality gear; not to sound elitist but I don't mean SONY, DENON, KENWOOD, and the like but good solid 'afordable' brands like ROTEL, NAD, TOTEM, CLASSE, Linn, and others (I could be little off but these were good brands some time ago). You will be surprised how good and better the sound is than cheaper gear.
In life, one should always keep an open mind. That's been my philosophy.
Comments
I suppose I am representative of the kind of people this article talks about - I had 1Gb shuffle for a few weeks, but when the 2nd gen mini came out, and it was only an extra £28 (student discount), it was a no-brainer now that it has great battery life. Sold the shuffle on eBay for the same as I paid, and I've never looked back.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
they already are very competitive.
No arguement there, but is no harm in being even more competetive
Originally posted by melgross
In my audiophile group we do, but not that, it's pro. Not really good stuff. Just made to take a beating.
But if you read Stereophile, you'll notice that even J. A. the publisher has an iPod. The audio is much better than you think in AIFF or Lossless.
By the way, what you showed is cheap stuff, even though I know Bob.
Try something a little better:
http://www.acapella.de/index.phtml
Go to the Sphaeron. It's only $325,000.
But it's not so bad as it's for a pair, and it does include the sub.
I don't want to show anything really expensive as you might fall off your chair.
This paints kind of a misleading picture of the audiophile
market. They might sell 1 or 2 pairs of these speakers per year, and after 5 years the market will be saturated and they have to stop for a while.
The average audiophile stereo is between 5k and 20k total (so the average speakers are $2K to $8K). Speakers above 30k/pair are very rare. My speakers retail for $55K (Nearfield acoustics pipedreams - bought them used for $16K).
I've taste-tested AIFF vs. 160k AAC on studio reference monitors, and while I can detect a difference, it's not worth bothering with as far as audio to go, which has to compete with road noise, it's just not worth it.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Fair enough. Now for the other 98% of the market...
( when everyone was clamoring for a 60GB iPod, I suspected that few would buy it...this is true so far...just not that many people that have a real need for it. )
P.S. And what is an "audiophile" doing buying an iPod anyway? Aren't they all spending their money on stuff like this?
Sorry, Audiophiles don't buy carver. They buy stuff like this:
http://www.krellonline.com/html/m_KAV_p_KAV3250.html
Originally posted by chris v
Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference between apple Lossless and a 192 k AAC file on a pair of earbuds, while driving a car is high on crack.
I've taste-tested AIFF vs. 160k AAC on studio reference monitors, and while I can detect a difference, it's not worth bothering with as far as audio to go, which has to compete with road noise, it's just not worth it.
I use a pair of Etymotic 4s earbuds (almost as good as expensive reference speakers). I tried out the 1 GB shuffle and thought the sound was horrible when compared to a 20GB 4G (U2). Also, while the sound quality of AIFF vs. 192 AAC is subtle, there IS a difference and there are people who want it.
Originally posted by e1618978
This paints kind of a misleading picture of the audiophile
market. They might sell 1 or 2 pairs of these speakers per year, and after 5 years the market will be saturated and they have to stop for a while.
The average audiophile stereo is between 5k and 20k total (so the average speakers are $2K to $8K). Speakers above 30k/pair are very rare. My speakers retail for $55K (Nearfield acoustics pipedreams - bought them used for $16K).
I know, it was a tweek
One of the guys, David, in my group named the Pipedreams. He has the original pair. The ones they never made. It uses Panasonic car ribbon speakers. The subs are 22" boxes with two 18 pro drivers. one is inverted because there wasn't enough room in the box. Heavily equal'ed.
They sound better than the commercial versions, though the output levels aren't nearly as high. They never made that model because Panasonic discontinued the drivers. We have 12 extras on hand.
I've been in this business for 30 years on and off. My old company (I was a partner), was Magnum Opus.
Originally posted by Samo
I'm curious which mini colors sell best. The new pink, blue, and green turn me off, and I've hardly seen anyone carrying one, but the silver is all over the place, particular popular at my gym. Men and women both seem to favor the silver.
It's neutral, it goes with anything.
Originally posted by cj3209
Sorry, Audiophiles don't buy carver. They buy stuff like this:
http://www.krellonline.com/html/m_KAV_p_KAV3250.html
Dan came to out last club meeting to show off his new amps. At $50K they are a bit high. We weren't too thrilled at the overall sound. It could have been his speakers, or the Miyabi 47 cartridge that Hugh has (we're not too fond of that).
Originally posted by melgross
Dan came to out last club meeting to show off his new amps. At $50K they are a bit high. We weren't too thrilled at the overall sound. It could have been his speakers, or the Miyabi 47 cartridge that Hugh has (we're not too fond of that).
These days I'm not even sure my 'old' ears can hear a difference anymore between a super set-up and a mediocre one.
Just out of curiosity, would love to hear your thoughts on 'old' Apogee ribbon gear?
Originally posted by cj3209
These days I'm not even sure my 'old' ears can hear a difference anymore between a super set-up and a mediocre one.
Just out of curiosity, would love to hear your thoughts on 'old' Apogee ribbon gear?
Ha! Apogee had many problems. That's why they disappeared years ago.
Reliability was a major issue, especially with the Scintilla, Diva, and other full range ribbons.
The fact that they ran down to one ohm at spots didn't help their driving ability, they would melt down some amps!
By the time they came out with the smaller Grands with the dynamic bass, they were finished.
Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* full range ribbons.
As a matter of fact, after all the talk about Carver, I still have a pair of Platinums that I heavily modified, with Bob's help (after his hissy fit ended). I ripped out the passive components, modded the drivers, and equal'ed with computer eq. I use a Rane active crossover that I modded to power the (almost) full range ribbons and subs seperately. Too bad his ribbons aren't available today. They were, and to a certain extent still are, way ahead of their time.
The best alternatives I've heard recently are those from Analysis Audio USA:
http://www.analysisaudiousa.com/
Though I don't agree about his choice for the panel shape, they soud quite good.
A can't reccomend buying an Apogee, esp. used. You're just waiting for a problem to happen with nowhere to go.
Originally posted by melgross
Ha! Apogee had many problems. That's why they disappeared years ago.
Reliability was a major issue, especially with the Scintilla, Diva, and other full range ribbons.
The fact that they ran down to one ohm at spots didn't help their driving ability, they would melt down some amps!
By the time they came out with the smaller Grands with the dynamic bass, they were finished.
Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* full range ribbons.
As a matter of fact, after all the talk about Carver, I still have a pair of Platinums that I heavily modified, with Bob's help (after his hissy fit ended). I ripped out the passive components, modded the drivers, and equal'ed with computer eq. I use a Rane active crossover that I modded to power the (almost) full range ribbons and subs seperately. Too bad his ribbons aren't available today. They were, and to a certain extent still are, way ahead of their time.
The best alternatives I've heard recently are those from Analysis Audio USA:
http://www.analysisaudiousa.com/
Though I don't agree about his choice for the panel shape, they soud quite good.
A can't reccomend buying an Apogee, esp. used. You're just waiting for a problem to happen with nowhere to go.
THAT was very insightful. Thank you so much.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
wow, it's funny how anal some people are about their music. To me, 128kbps MP3 or AAC files are adequate. 160 and 192 kbps MP3 files are a treat. Anything higher than that is just wasting space and inneficient. It's your money hehe.
You have no ear for quality, or you don't want to spend the money on it. That doesn't make us any more anal than your anti-quality stance is.
Originally posted by melgross
You have no ear for quality, or you don't want to spend the money on it. That doesn't make us any more anal than your anti-quality stance is.
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
wow, it's funny how anal some people are about their music. To me, 128kbps MP3 or AAC files are adequate. 160 and 192 kbps MP3 files are a treat. Anything higher than that is just wasting space and inneficient. It's your money hehe.
I could say the same thing to people who rant and rave about getting better video cards, faster processors, faster hard drives, etc. etc. ad nauseum...
Pick your medicine...
Originally posted by cj3209
I could say the same thing to people who rant and rave about getting better video cards, faster processors, faster hard drives, etc. etc. ad nauseum...
Pick your medicine...
I know what you mean hehe.
No matter how fast my computer's processor, how much RAM I have, how large my HD is... Word and PowerPoint and web browsers keep crashing the same after all these years.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
Just because you're cheap doesn't mean that there isn't a big difference.
So fine, listen with $5 earbuds and computer speakers, if that makes you happy. That doesn't give you the right to call us anal.
Buddy, you started us down this road, we were enjoying this thread until you came along.
Like I said, if you can't hear it, fine.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
woah don't get your panties in a bunch. People call themselves audiophile because they think it sounds cute and very educated . Chances are you're just able to distinguish between FM radio and CD quality and mp3s just sound the same. It's like trying to say you feel the earth rotating. hehehe.
No, seriously. There is a difference between gear but of course the law of diminishing returns comes into play here. For instance, a $50,000 amp will not sound 50,000 times better than a $1,000 amp.
If you have some time, go into a high end audio store and listen to some good quality gear; not to sound elitist but I don't mean SONY, DENON, KENWOOD, and the like but good solid 'afordable' brands like ROTEL, NAD, TOTEM, CLASSE, Linn, and others (I could be little off but these were good brands some time ago). You will be surprised how good and better the sound is than cheaper gear.
In life, one should always keep an open mind. That's been my philosophy.