Thanks to all that answered, however I do have further questions.
As a power Windows user I do not run into problems of catching a virus or having spyware on my machine because I properly secure my system from every aspect.
So away from the security aspect, because I don?t have Windows security issues, what other aspects attracted you to get a Mac? I know for one that Apple machines have an advantage when dealing with video editing and manipulation.
Lastly, I would need the PowerBook to last at least 4 years through university where I will be taking the Computer Science and Programming programs. How far does Apple and more importantly Mac OS X extend to those areas? And is this all worth the money when I could save ~ $1,000 by going the PC route.
Thanks in advance.
my brother programs, and he refuses to go back to microsoft for anything except for games which he really only plays W.O.W. but besides that... my brother will shoot a regular pc w/ microsoft based or such before going to program into it. My brother has a mac at home, one of the new PB's and loving it as well as a mac at his office to do all his programming on. and he tells me that its soo muich easier as a lot better to program on the macs, then it is windows.
hope this helps, dunno hwat else to say about macs before i continue(polly have been) repeating myself... im also a mac user, and ill be doing art like work w/ pictures, music, movies, ect. and on the mac its easier,better, and results are incredibly better then windows.. so thats my part on the art areas of the mac.
As some of you that have read my postings before know, I am currently not an Apple user. I came to these forums as a way to read Apple news and happenings and to decide if purchasing an Apple notebook was a way to go.
So with all that said, and after much research on my part, I will ask a simple question to all those that have bought an Apple computer (more importantly the PowerBook): Why did you buy an Apple over a regular PC based computer?
So once again, to a possible future Mac user, why should I go the route of the PowerBook? Is that amount of money worth of just getting an Apple?
Thank you in advance.
Take a look at eBay, Apple laptop seem to hold thier value amazingly well, even *REALLY OLD* 3-400MHz G3 iBooks sell for a few hundred pounds in the UK. I had a lecturer last year who used an old Powerbook (a black one not sure of the spec) for his lectures and to demonstrate programming on Windows via VirtualPC!!!!!!
It appears that they are a good investment.
Personally I went the Mac route purely because at the time I was working as a system admin and my day was filled with fixing PC problems, and so I decided that I'd rather come home to a different set of problems. As it turns out I've not had any major problems. I switch it on use it and then forget about it. I just find it a more comfortable experience.
I'm personally waiting for the new iBooks to come out, I've been actively looking at PC laptops too, after all I want the best tool for job, but I think the lure of OS X will prove too strong.
If you can, try before you buy. At the end of the day, it's all personal preference, and about getting the right tool for the job.
the only thing about ebay is you gotta be careful your not buying junk... theres people that do that.. ive seen pictures copied and pasted straight from apples site and put onto ebay by people.. those people i would be careful o=f...
the only thing about ebay is you gotta be careful your not buying junk... theres people that do that.. ive seen pictures copied and pasted straight from apples site and put onto ebay by people.. those people i would be careful o=f...
I was only using ebay as an example to express a point, I wasn't suggesting that he actually buy from there.
im aware of that, however i was just mentioning the cautiousness one might want to take.. ebay works both ways. you can find great deals, as well as bad ones..
Hey, a mac is alot better, im a A-level student and i have crashed the os 4 or 5 times (plus no reset button on the ibook is a problem, i end up taking battery out and then putting it back in), ive crashed windows 4 or 5 hundred times. Im not exagerating, i can crash anything, want a usability test done?, then ask me and ill show you how 'stable' a system realy is.
I am studing computing and i use my ibook for processor intensive tasks often, im currently working on research into A.I (artificial intellegence), its being developed slowly, the same research on my windows pc crashes it almost immediatly.
Hey, a mac is alot better, im a A-level student and i have crashed the os 4 or 5 times (plus no reset button on the ibook is a problem, i end up taking battery out and then putting it back in), ive crashed windows 4 or 5 hundred times. Im not exagerating, i can crash anything, want a usability test done?, then ask me and ill show you how 'stable' a system realy is.
I am studing computing and i use my ibook for processor intensive tasks often, im currently working on research into A.I (artificial intellegence), its being developed slowly, the same research on my windows pc crashes it almost immediatly.
on your iBook have you tried just holding down the power button to force it to turn off? hold it down 3 seconds and it will switch off... this is my preferred 'hard reset' method , i've never really had to pull the battery out to force it to turn off.... just a thought...
As some of you that have read my postings before know, I am currently not an Apple user. I came to these forums as a way to read Apple news and happenings and to decide if purchasing an Apple notebook was a way to go.
So with all that said, and after much research on my part, I will ask a simple question to all those that have bought an Apple computer (more importantly the PowerBook): Why did you buy an Apple over a regular PC based computer?
I ask this simple question because, as I?ve said earlier, am in the process of buying a notebook computer that will last me the next 4-5 years.
I?ve had my eye on this PowerBook:
15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon
9700 (64 MB DDR)
Backlit keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
Analog audio in/out
DVI & S-Video out
I know that the PowerBook is a solid piece of technology; however, for $2,500 CAD I can also have a much better PC based notebook.
So once again, to a possible future Mac user, why should I go the route of the PowerBook? Is that amount of money worth of just getting an Apple?
Thank you in advance.
I just checked the ed store and the Powerbook you mention is 1800 USD or 2248 CAD.
Where is your extra cost coming from?
Also there is currently a $100 rebate for educational purchasers. That gets you down to 2123.
You have to press and hold it for several seconds, but it will do a hard shutdown. Definitely not suggested though. Try the magic three-finger salute of Cmd-shift-power instead. It's *slightly* easier on the hardware.
Hmm, I *think* it's Cmd-shift-power, I haven't had to use it in literally years.
Of course, before you do that, read the instructions on the screen when you get that kernel panic.
No grey screen with words == you didn't crash the OS, just an app or perhaps a service. Cmd-opt-esc brings up the Force Quit panel, where you can select which apps to kill off if they hang. On rare occasions you can crash the WindowServer, but even that can be recovered from if you have ssh enabled. Simply log in from another machine over ssh, and kill off the PID found from a ps -aux run. It'll restart, and you're back up, even if you were forcibly logged out. Keeps the disks safer from corruption caused by the force quits.
I see a lot of people claim that they're "CS" wizards and other people who have "experience". And yet it seems that most of you can't even get a simple PC computer running properly.
I run a few PCs and they never crash, never have viruses, and applications are as stable as one can expect them to be.
Right now I'm using a PC laptop which has real life battery run time of 6 hours, weighs 3 lb, widescreen high resolution screen, has a DVD burner, and is built like a rock. Apple has nothing to match that.
Integrating UNIX is a peice of cake with vmware. I can run multiple vitual machines at the same time, run a virtual multi-computer network all inside and other cool stuff.
Need more battery, swap the optical drive for bay battery and you get 9+ hours of real battery life.
Getting it, and even keeping it running, aren't the issue. The problem is the time involved.
I have literally *zero* maintenance time on my Mac. None. Set up time is minimal.
I *can* work with a Windows box from top to bottom, inside and out. (Several years professional programming military flight and sonar simulators on NT.) I just don't want to *have* to. It's more trouble than it is worth.
It's like driving a car you have to always be watching the gauges on, pop the hood each weekend to tighten a couple of bolts and check lines, and periodically do an overhaul on, versus driving something like an Accord, where you just never have to think about it.
A lot of people really enjoy the former. I do myself sometimes. I just don't want to have to be *forced* to do it when I have other things I need to do. You don't want that chronic fuel line issue to bite you when you suddenly have to get to the office someday. You'd like to know that it's reliable when you need it, but there to tinker with if you want. That's what we get in a Mac, IMO.
Yes, yes, I know, you're going to say that you never have any problems, etc, etc. Bully for you. *Most* people aren't that lucky, and *most* people have ongoing serious issues with their PCs.
Me, I've got work that needs to get done instead of just trying to keep the tools working.
You bring up an excellent point man. I've realized that the PC market doesn't center around Microsoft's OS as far as excitment goes. You mentione the cool hardware that you're happy with and the cool VMware that you use. I find this happens many times when you ask PC users what they like. It's everything "but" Microsoft.
Apple is the opposite for the most part. Mac users demand that Apple has cool stuff hence the "lickable" aqua UI and the Opensource stuff in Tiger. It really is a fundamental difference in idealogy. Just look at Apple technology and see how many grassroots websites pop up to support the tech.
Automator- has like 3 sites
Dashboard- 6 sites or so
iCal- couple of languishing sites
Garageband- 4 sites or so
yadda yadda yadda. It's really amazing. Not many other developers have cottage industries popping up. The reason is because the Mac OS is a central part of the workflow like an OS should but it's also central in mindshare as well. PC users simply cannot understand this change in view for the most part.
I think Skatman is just trying to provide some balance to the fanboy influence that pervades these types of discussions. I find myself guilty of it sometimes.
In fact, I was talking about my new iMac to someone in my cubicle and the person (developer) in the cube next to mine started asking questions about Macs (the mac mini, in particular). It was hard to curb my enthusiasm and just give straight facts as to why I prefer it to PCs running Windows. And, as mentioned many times, it often comes down to simplicity. With PCs running Windows, constant tweaking,etc is necessary. And, in all honesty, not entirely _that_ complicated. I am a CS major, but I honestly don't think it is too complicated to keep a Windows machine running well (although, I did spend 45mins on the phone troubleshooting my Mother's PC today). My XP machines have been INCREDIBLY stable and I never suffered a major viral infection/malware infection. But, I choose OSX because it steps aside and doesn't force me to tweak, etc to keep things running smoothly.
So, I don't think people should jump down Skatmans throat, he is providing a balance to this thread that is sorely needed.
Btw, the last thing I mentioned to the developer who I was talking about the Mac mini was... "And its oh so pretty." Yea, I couldn't resist.
While my cookie gift and comments had a *hint* of sarcasm to them, let's not forget that MOST people in the computing world -- Mac and PC owners alike -- expect their computer to be a plug-it-in-and-it-just-works kind of venture.
Look at the setup instructions that come with any new computer on the market today! They're little cartoon drawings that include a picture of how to plug in the power cable! When you boot up the machine the first time it takes you step-by-step through the process of setting up your e-mail and so on.
Personally, I see this all the time. My parents each have had their own Macs running OS X for 3 or 4 years now. Whenever they buy any new software for it -- such as iLife -- they still say, "and maybe you could help us get it installed?"
NO!!!!! Follow the f*cking instructions and learn how to maintain your own computer, guys! It's not that hard!
I'd venture to guess that at least half of the households in America have the "token computer geek" that they always fall back on to do anything more complicated than browsing a Web site or checking e-mail. Assuming that posit to be true, computers need to be built nowadays to be "idiot proof," and PCs are not there yet. Macs may not be, either, but they're much closer...while still having a lot of power under the hood for the CS majors and computer geeks.
Peace out, dogs. (drops the microphone on the floor and pimp-walks off the stage)
And don't get me wrong, I *will* advise someone to get a PC if it better fits their needs. For a CS student, however, I really can't see any down side, and a plethora of upsides.
I see a lot of people claim that they're "CS" wizards and other people who have "experience". And yet it seems that most of you can't even get a simple PC computer running properly.
I run a few PCs and they never crash, never have viruses, and applications are as stable as one can expect them to be.
Right now I'm using a PC laptop which has real life battery run time of 6 hours, weighs 3 lb, widescreen high resolution screen, has a DVD burner, and is built like a rock. Apple has nothing to match that.
Integrating UNIX is a peice of cake with vmware. I can run multiple vitual machines at the same time, run a virtual multi-computer network all inside and other cool stuff.
Need more battery, swap the optical drive for bay battery and you get 9+ hours of real battery life.
Thank you. That was exactly my point.
My deciding factor will not be to get a Mac simply because Windows crashes - because for me, it does not, and I do not have security issues with any of my Windows machines.
What it will come down to is what the right tool for the job is. And I still have to make that decision.
Comments
Originally posted by iMe
Thanks to all that answered, however I do have further questions.
As a power Windows user I do not run into problems of catching a virus or having spyware on my machine because I properly secure my system from every aspect.
So away from the security aspect, because I don?t have Windows security issues, what other aspects attracted you to get a Mac? I know for one that Apple machines have an advantage when dealing with video editing and manipulation.
Lastly, I would need the PowerBook to last at least 4 years through university where I will be taking the Computer Science and Programming programs. How far does Apple and more importantly Mac OS X extend to those areas? And is this all worth the money when I could save ~ $1,000 by going the PC route.
Thanks in advance.
my brother programs, and he refuses to go back to microsoft for anything except for games which he really only plays W.O.W. but besides that... my brother will shoot a regular pc w/ microsoft based or such before going to program into it. My brother has a mac at home, one of the new PB's and loving it as well as a mac at his office to do all his programming on. and he tells me that its soo muich easier as a lot better to program on the macs, then it is windows.
hope this helps, dunno hwat else to say about macs before i continue(polly have been) repeating myself... im also a mac user, and ill be doing art like work w/ pictures, music, movies, ect. and on the mac its easier,better, and results are incredibly better then windows.. so thats my part on the art areas of the mac.
good luck
Originally posted by iMe
As some of you that have read my postings before know, I am currently not an Apple user. I came to these forums as a way to read Apple news and happenings and to decide if purchasing an Apple notebook was a way to go.
So with all that said, and after much research on my part, I will ask a simple question to all those that have bought an Apple computer (more importantly the PowerBook): Why did you buy an Apple over a regular PC based computer?
So once again, to a possible future Mac user, why should I go the route of the PowerBook? Is that amount of money worth of just getting an Apple?
Thank you in advance.
Take a look at eBay, Apple laptop seem to hold thier value amazingly well, even *REALLY OLD* 3-400MHz G3 iBooks sell for a few hundred pounds in the UK. I had a lecturer last year who used an old Powerbook (a black one not sure of the spec) for his lectures and to demonstrate programming on Windows via VirtualPC!!!!!!
It appears that they are a good investment.
Personally I went the Mac route purely because at the time I was working as a system admin and my day was filled with fixing PC problems, and so I decided that I'd rather come home to a different set of problems. As it turns out I've not had any major problems. I switch it on use it and then forget about it. I just find it a more comfortable experience.
I'm personally waiting for the new iBooks to come out, I've been actively looking at PC laptops too, after all I want the best tool for job, but I think the lure of OS X will prove too strong.
If you can, try before you buy. At the end of the day, it's all personal preference, and about getting the right tool for the job.
Originally posted by ragingloogie
the only thing about ebay is you gotta be careful your not buying junk... theres people that do that.. ive seen pictures copied and pasted straight from apples site and put onto ebay by people.. those people i would be careful o=f...
I was only using ebay as an example to express a point, I wasn't suggesting that he actually buy from there.
I am studing computing and i use my ibook for processor intensive tasks often, im currently working on research into A.I (artificial intellegence), its being developed slowly, the same research on my windows pc crashes it almost immediatly.
Originally posted by cdoverlaw
Hey, a mac is alot better, im a A-level student and i have crashed the os 4 or 5 times (plus no reset button on the ibook is a problem, i end up taking battery out and then putting it back in), ive crashed windows 4 or 5 hundred times. Im not exagerating, i can crash anything, want a usability test done?, then ask me and ill show you how 'stable' a system realy is.
I am studing computing and i use my ibook for processor intensive tasks often, im currently working on research into A.I (artificial intellegence), its being developed slowly, the same research on my windows pc crashes it almost immediatly.
on your iBook have you tried just holding down the power button to force it to turn off? hold it down 3 seconds and it will switch off... this is my preferred 'hard reset' method
Originally posted by iMe
As some of you that have read my postings before know, I am currently not an Apple user. I came to these forums as a way to read Apple news and happenings and to decide if purchasing an Apple notebook was a way to go.
So with all that said, and after much research on my part, I will ask a simple question to all those that have bought an Apple computer (more importantly the PowerBook): Why did you buy an Apple over a regular PC based computer?
I ask this simple question because, as I?ve said earlier, am in the process of buying a notebook computer that will last me the next 4-5 years.
I?ve had my eye on this PowerBook:
15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon
9700 (64 MB DDR)
Backlit keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
Analog audio in/out
DVI & S-Video out
I know that the PowerBook is a solid piece of technology; however, for $2,500 CAD I can also have a much better PC based notebook.
So once again, to a possible future Mac user, why should I go the route of the PowerBook? Is that amount of money worth of just getting an Apple?
Thank you in advance.
I just checked the ed store and the Powerbook you mention is 1800 USD or 2248 CAD.
Where is your extra cost coming from?
Also there is currently a $100 rebate for educational purchasers. That gets you down to 2123.
Hmm, I *think* it's Cmd-shift-power, I haven't had to use it in literally years.
Of course, before you do that, read the instructions on the screen when you get that kernel panic.
No grey screen with words == you didn't crash the OS, just an app or perhaps a service. Cmd-opt-esc brings up the Force Quit panel, where you can select which apps to kill off if they hang. On rare occasions you can crash the WindowServer, but even that can be recovered from if you have ssh enabled. Simply log in from another machine over ssh, and kill off the PID found from a ps -aux run. It'll restart, and you're back up, even if you were forcibly logged out. Keeps the disks safer from corruption caused by the force quits.
I run a few PCs and they never crash, never have viruses, and applications are as stable as one can expect them to be.
Right now I'm using a PC laptop which has real life battery run time of 6 hours, weighs 3 lb, widescreen high resolution screen, has a DVD burner, and is built like a rock. Apple has nothing to match that.
Integrating UNIX is a peice of cake with vmware. I can run multiple vitual machines at the same time, run a virtual multi-computer network all inside and other cool stuff.
Need more battery, swap the optical drive for bay battery and you get 9+ hours of real battery life.
I have literally *zero* maintenance time on my Mac. None. Set up time is minimal.
I *can* work with a Windows box from top to bottom, inside and out. (Several years professional programming military flight and sonar simulators on NT.) I just don't want to *have* to. It's more trouble than it is worth.
It's like driving a car you have to always be watching the gauges on, pop the hood each weekend to tighten a couple of bolts and check lines, and periodically do an overhaul on, versus driving something like an Accord, where you just never have to think about it.
A lot of people really enjoy the former. I do myself sometimes. I just don't want to have to be *forced* to do it when I have other things I need to do. You don't want that chronic fuel line issue to bite you when you suddenly have to get to the office someday. You'd like to know that it's reliable when you need it, but there to tinker with if you want. That's what we get in a Mac, IMO.
Yes, yes, I know, you're going to say that you never have any problems, etc, etc. Bully for you. *Most* people aren't that lucky, and *most* people have ongoing serious issues with their PCs.
Me, I've got work that needs to get done instead of just trying to keep the tools working.
Originally posted by skatman
I run a few PCs and they never crash, never have viruses, and applications are as stable as one can expect them to be.
Good for you!
99% of PC users don't have the large, genius brain you do.
You bring up an excellent point man. I've realized that the PC market doesn't center around Microsoft's OS as far as excitment goes. You mentione the cool hardware that you're happy with and the cool VMware that you use. I find this happens many times when you ask PC users what they like. It's everything "but" Microsoft.
Apple is the opposite for the most part. Mac users demand that Apple has cool stuff hence the "lickable" aqua UI and the Opensource stuff in Tiger. It really is a fundamental difference in idealogy. Just look at Apple technology and see how many grassroots websites pop up to support the tech.
Automator- has like 3 sites
Dashboard- 6 sites or so
iCal- couple of languishing sites
Garageband- 4 sites or so
yadda yadda yadda. It's really amazing. Not many other developers have cottage industries popping up. The reason is because the Mac OS is a central part of the workflow like an OS should but it's also central in mindshare as well. PC users simply cannot understand this change in view for the most part.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Good for you!
99% of PC users don't have the large, genius brain you do.
In fact, I was talking about my new iMac to someone in my cubicle and the person (developer) in the cube next to mine started asking questions about Macs (the mac mini, in particular). It was hard to curb my enthusiasm and just give straight facts as to why I prefer it to PCs running Windows. And, as mentioned many times, it often comes down to simplicity. With PCs running Windows, constant tweaking,etc is necessary. And, in all honesty, not entirely _that_ complicated. I am a CS major, but I honestly don't think it is too complicated to keep a Windows machine running well (although, I did spend 45mins on the phone troubleshooting my Mother's PC today). My XP machines have been INCREDIBLY stable and I never suffered a major viral infection/malware infection. But, I choose OSX because it steps aside and doesn't force me to tweak, etc to keep things running smoothly.
So, I don't think people should jump down Skatmans throat, he is providing a balance to this thread that is sorely needed.
Btw, the last thing I mentioned to the developer who I was talking about the Mac mini was... "And its oh so pretty." Yea, I couldn't resist.
Look at the setup instructions that come with any new computer on the market today! They're little cartoon drawings that include a picture of how to plug in the power cable! When you boot up the machine the first time it takes you step-by-step through the process of setting up your e-mail and so on.
Personally, I see this all the time. My parents each have had their own Macs running OS X for 3 or 4 years now. Whenever they buy any new software for it -- such as iLife -- they still say, "and maybe you could help us get it installed?"
NO!!!!! Follow the f*cking instructions and learn how to maintain your own computer, guys! It's not that hard!
I'd venture to guess that at least half of the households in America have the "token computer geek" that they always fall back on to do anything more complicated than browsing a Web site or checking e-mail. Assuming that posit to be true, computers need to be built nowadays to be "idiot proof," and PCs are not there yet. Macs may not be, either, but they're much closer...while still having a lot of power under the hood for the CS majors and computer geeks.
Peace out, dogs. (drops the microphone on the floor and pimp-walks off the stage)
Originally posted by skatman
I see a lot of people claim that they're "CS" wizards and other people who have "experience". And yet it seems that most of you can't even get a simple PC computer running properly.
I run a few PCs and they never crash, never have viruses, and applications are as stable as one can expect them to be.
Right now I'm using a PC laptop which has real life battery run time of 6 hours, weighs 3 lb, widescreen high resolution screen, has a DVD burner, and is built like a rock. Apple has nothing to match that.
Integrating UNIX is a peice of cake with vmware. I can run multiple vitual machines at the same time, run a virtual multi-computer network all inside and other cool stuff.
Need more battery, swap the optical drive for bay battery and you get 9+ hours of real battery life.
Thank you. That was exactly my point.
My deciding factor will not be to get a Mac simply because Windows crashes - because for me, it does not, and I do not have security issues with any of my Windows machines.
What it will come down to is what the right tool for the job is. And I still have to make that decision.