man so how bout the gas prices. the other day i paid 2.50. what ever happened to the days where 1.09 was expensive. i dont really think we are running out of oil. i think that some people are just hoarding it. and trying to make money in the process
There is actually an argument to be made that (U.S.) gas prices are really not so high/bad afterall, based on three different angles:
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
There is actually an argument to be made that (U.S.) gas prices are really not so high/bad afterall, based on three different angles:
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
You left one out, better manufacturing processes. The oil industry has progressed massively.
Higher oil prices have certainly put pressure on inflation too, which will be interesting for a lot of countries in the longer term.
There is actually an argument to be made that (U.S.) gas prices are really not so high/bad afterall, based on three different angles:
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
Yup. This is a powerful argument for why America will never seriously look for alternatives. Until we're paying what the Brits are, there's no reason. I mean, hell, people bitch about record gas prices and then go cruise around in their Hummers.
Yup. This is a powerful argument for why America will never seriously look for alternatives.
But why should we? Based on cost, if my points are correct (and I don't assume they are 100% correct), it actually makes more sense for us to continue using oil.
In fact, I have a theory...a economic-political one...it's not a huge leap mind you...we are using the middle east. As much as we might pretend to be "in bed" with them (the Saudis)...we are simply using them until the the well is dry. Then we are done with them. I don't endorse this mind you...it is just my theory about what is happening.
I do think that for our ultimate economic benefit, reusable energy sources will be essential...but for now, we are using oil more efficiently than ever before, such that even at the currently high prices, it is not (apparently) hurting that much.
Now...that isn't to say that we couldn't use oil even more efficiently...which I would love to see us doing. The wastefulness (overall) I see in the U.S. bugs me no end.
But why should we? Based on cost, if my points are correct (and I don't assume they are 100% correct), it actually makes more sense for us to continue using oil.
I think we should because when the time comes when oil does start to get really expensive, it will cause massive economic recession.
It's going to hurt alot more then starting to build an alternative energy source and infrastructure when were broke, than it would be if we seriously started planning for the future now.
thats what im doing.. when i get my new bike.. im going to start biking to places that arent like 20miles away and i need to be there in 10minutes or something... but biking is good.. the lowest ive seen gas around here is 2.05$ down south when all this was happening.. i saw it at a 1.78 and 1.63.. it was great...
i remember back in sept and october abouts, it was 1.78$ and that was exspenisve.. i also remember backw hen i wasnt driving when my mom complained it to be 1.05 but 15$ fille the gas tank now its 30 for her car and about 25$ for mine... ugh.. when will this mahem end?
i'm paying 1.80 lately with E-85. Bikes are good, and i love mine, but the cost of driving 60 miles a day is going to be cheaper than rent 30 miles away for a long time. It would be nice to get away from fossil fuels, but it's going to take a long time, too long. Even my E-85 is most likely produced with coal but, i think we're starting to move in a good direction, so by the time the ice caps have melted we'll be using renewable energy all the time! :-D
i just got my tank filled the other day, and it came to 32$ for 15.413 galons, and being 5$ gets you about 2.914 galons give or take.. then i did the apporiate calculations to come to a total of 37$ to fill my tank from empty to all they way full:-\\ i need better gas milage on my next car if things keep going up lik this.
trust me we are running out of oil. my brother-in-law is a geologist and he says Peak Oil is real. he also said it's suspected that the Saudis aren't pumping more to help relieve things, but they are actually going into their reserves
trust me we are running out of oil. my brother-in-law is a geologist and he says Peak Oil is real. he also said it's suspected that the Saudis aren't pumping more to help relieve things, but they are actually going into their reserves
Yes, and remember recently when the President met with the Saudi Crown Prince? A couple of days before the Saudis announced they would be spending $50 billion over the next 5 years to increase production. First of all be assured that we will of course be paying for that $50 billion in increased prices. And second they may have been misrepresenting how much oil they actually have left. Read here:
I think we should because when the time comes when oil does start to get really expensive, it will cause massive economic recession.
It's going to hurt alot more then starting to build an alternative energy source and infrastructure when were broke, than it would be if we seriously started planning for the future now.
This seems the most likely scenario. I'll never understand why it is we can't ever look even a few years ahead and make plans for what is rushing at us like a runaway train. The free market is a wonderful thing, but it will chew us up and spit us out if we let it.
gas prices suck . man . biking is great i will agree, but i think i would much rather be a wasteful american and drive to the food store that is one block away then bike.
Practically every gasoline-burning vehicle out there can be converted to natural gas, a renewable resource, without much effort. In fact, it would spawn an industry without worry about the pipe-dream that is hydrogen. And giving us vehicles that produces over two-thirds less emissions.
And there already exist network to distribute this fuel. They just need to be expanded - and would be when demand increases.
however.. if we fill our tanks w/ hydrogen.. then there has to be safer stuff around to distribute;... ive noticed the jamacans around me dont really care, ive seen one smoke and all that... and hydrogen is nothing friendly, as it is more flamible then gasoline is, if i remember correctly; which means its easier for it to be ignighted...
Hydrogen fires are non-explosive. it burns in a steady stream, if say, a tank gets punctured. On the other hand, gasoline spreads and has a far greater proclivity to explode...
The problem is storing hydrogen... Methanol, which has the same problems as gasoline, can also be used in fuel cells and has a higher possible storage density at normal pressures...
Comments
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
Originally posted by Anders
Go bike
and build much better public transportation with bike racks.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
There is actually an argument to be made that (U.S.) gas prices are really not so high/bad afterall, based on three different angles:
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
You left one out, better manufacturing processes. The oil industry has progressed massively.
Higher oil prices have certainly put pressure on inflation too, which will be interesting for a lot of countries in the longer term.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
There is actually an argument to be made that (U.S.) gas prices are really not so high/bad afterall, based on three different angles:
1. In real terms, the highest prices ever were closer to $3.00...maybe $3.25 (possibly $2.75 depending on who's numbers you use).
2. In terms of the % of real income, gas costs to consumers may still be quite a bit less than any historical highs. This may be a result of two factors, real income rising faster than fuel prices (over the long term) and...
3. Overall fuel consumption efficiency. It is possible that the U.S. (overall) is using oil more efficiently than it ever has in the past.
So far we are hearing lots of jokes and cartoons about gas and oil prices but they do not appear to be having a demonstrably negative effect on people's lives and the economy as a whole. It may well be due to some combination of the above three things. There may be a lag in the effect too. Hard to say for sure.
Yup. This is a powerful argument for why America will never seriously look for alternatives. Until we're paying what the Brits are, there's no reason. I mean, hell, people bitch about record gas prices and then go cruise around in their Hummers.
Originally posted by midwinter
Yup. This is a powerful argument for why America will never seriously look for alternatives.
But why should we? Based on cost, if my points are correct (and I don't assume they are 100% correct), it actually makes more sense for us to continue using oil.
In fact, I have a theory...a economic-political one...it's not a huge leap mind you...we are using the middle east. As much as we might pretend to be "in bed" with them (the Saudis)...we are simply using them until the the well is dry. Then we are done with them. I don't endorse this mind you...it is just my theory about what is happening.
I do think that for our ultimate economic benefit, reusable energy sources will be essential...but for now, we are using oil more efficiently than ever before, such that even at the currently high prices, it is not (apparently) hurting that much.
Now...that isn't to say that we couldn't use oil even more efficiently...which I would love to see us doing. The wastefulness (overall) I see in the U.S. bugs me no end.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
But why should we? Based on cost, if my points are correct (and I don't assume they are 100% correct), it actually makes more sense for us to continue using oil.
I think we should because when the time comes when oil does start to get really expensive, it will cause massive economic recession.
It's going to hurt alot more then starting to build an alternative energy source and infrastructure when were broke, than it would be if we seriously started planning for the future now.
i remember back in sept and october abouts, it was 1.78$ and that was exspenisve.. i also remember backw hen i wasnt driving when my mom complained it to be 1.05 but 15$ fille the gas tank now its 30 for her car and about 25$ for mine... ugh.. when will this mahem end?
posted by burningwheel
trust me we are running out of oil. my brother-in-law is a geologist and he says Peak Oil is real. he also said it's suspected that the Saudis aren't pumping more to help relieve things, but they are actually going into their reserves
Yes, and remember recently when the President met with the Saudi Crown Prince? A couple of days before the Saudis announced they would be spending $50 billion over the next 5 years to increase production. First of all be assured that we will of course be paying for that $50 billion in increased prices. And second they may have been misrepresenting how much oil they actually have left. Read here:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P113996.asp
What a disaster in the making.
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think we should because when the time comes when oil does start to get really expensive, it will cause massive economic recession.
It's going to hurt alot more then starting to build an alternative energy source and infrastructure when were broke, than it would be if we seriously started planning for the future now.
This seems the most likely scenario. I'll never understand why it is we can't ever look even a few years ahead and make plans for what is rushing at us like a runaway train. The free market is a wonderful thing, but it will chew us up and spit us out if we let it.
Practically every gasoline-burning vehicle out there can be converted to natural gas, a renewable resource, without much effort. In fact, it would spawn an industry without worry about the pipe-dream that is hydrogen. And giving us vehicles that produces over two-thirds less emissions.
And there already exist network to distribute this fuel. They just need to be expanded - and would be when demand increases.
We just have to want it.
</getting off soapbox>
however.. if we fill our tanks w/ hydrogen.. then there has to be safer stuff around to distribute;... ive noticed the jamacans around me dont really care, ive seen one smoke and all that... and hydrogen is nothing friendly, as it is more flamible then gasoline is, if i remember correctly; which means its easier for it to be ignighted...
The problem is storing hydrogen... Methanol, which has the same problems as gasoline, can also be used in fuel cells and has a higher possible storage density at normal pressures...