Xbox 360 Price
The price of the Xbox 360 will be in the "neighborhood" of $300 initially according to this article.
http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/tech/...0225293_3.html
Will Apple have anything that can compete in price and performance when the Xbox 360 starts selling?
http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/tech/...0225293_3.html
Will Apple have anything that can compete in price and performance when the Xbox 360 starts selling?
Comments
Originally posted by Tidris
The price of the Xbox 360 will be in the "neighborhood" of $300 initially according to this article.
http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/tech/...0225293_3.html
Will Apple have anything that can compete in price and performance when the Xbox 360 starts selling?
Apple to Oranges. I can't run Final Cut Pro on a Xbox 360
Originally posted by Tidris
Will Apple have anything that can compete in price and performance when the Xbox 360 starts selling?
Apple isn't in the game console business, so, the answer is obviously a resounding no. Apple will having nothing to compete with Xbox/xBox/XBOX 360. One can say Apple will never have anything like the Xbox 360 or PS3.
The Mac mini will likely have a 1.67 GHz G4 processor and Nvidia 5200 graphics by then though. That's only 3 times faster than my 500 MHz iBook.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Apple to Oranges. I can't run Final Cut Pro on a Xbox 360
That is true, at least until someone hacks OSX to run on the PowerPC based Xbox 360. However I don't think the $999 Final Cut Pro is relevant to people who buy computers in the $300 price range.
Originally posted by THT
Apple isn't in the game console business, so, the answer is obviously a resounding no.
From the specs I have seen the Xbox is capable of far more than playing games. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used as a high end personal computer if Microsoft decided to make the necessary software available.
Originally posted by Tidris
From the specs I have seen the Xbox is capable of far more than playing games. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used as a high end personal computer if Microsoft decided to make the necessary software available.
I don't know how "high end" it could be considered to be due to the in order nature of the Xenon CPU and the unupgradable shared RAM.
Allso, unless someone manages to get Linux running on it (and thus MOL). I doubt that Microsoft would be interested in selling OSX on the XBox. Not to mention that Apple wouldn't be very interested in doing such a deal with Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft, if at all, untill the more expensive (+$50US or so whith OSX included in the console price?) Mini has got spechs that can in some way compete.
Originally posted by Tidris
From the specs I have seen the Xbox is capable of far more than playing games. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used as a high end personal computer if Microsoft decided to make the necessary software available.
That's a big if. Think about what you are proposing. If you think Microsoft wants to undercut x86 boxes with their own proprietary hardware and software, then yes indeed, I can understand why Intel would want to talk with Apple about CPUs.
Originally posted by e1618978
The Xbox 360 could put quite a dent in the switch campaign, as you will be able to do the basic computer things from your 360 (hook up a mouse, keyboard + computer monitor, surf the web, etc).
WebTV failed once, it will fail again. Microsoft was the only company that believed in WebTV, and it just added to their legacy of failed hardware projects.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
WebTV failed once, it will fail again. Microsoft was the only company that believed in WebTV, and it just added to their legacy of failed hardware projects.
I submit that the reason it *totally* failed was lack of resolution in TV's. HD is cheap very soon. Wireless keyboards, also required, are common. The perfect usability in a couch setting might need good integrated trackball in the keyb, though, and it might not be easy to convince a lot of people to use that.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
WebTV failed once, it will fail again. Microsoft was the only company that believed in WebTV, and it just added to their legacy of failed hardware projects.
Xbox 360 will succeed even if it only plays games. In addition, people will realise that they don't need a computer for web browsing since they own a 360.
DVI output, a very quick processor, and the game console aspect make this a much more compelling purchace than webTV.
People who bought webTV were loser newbies, just like AOL people (but even more so). Xbox 360 does not have that stigma.
Originally posted by THT
That's a big if. Think about what you are proposing. If you think Microsoft wants to undercut x86 boxes with their own proprietary hardware and software, then yes indeed, I can understand why Intel would want to talk with Apple about CPUs.
They will do it, because you know that Sony will offer web browsing, etc, on the PS3. Microsoft's hardware is not up to the same level of spec as the PS3 - so they are trying to differentiate with software (xbox live, marketplace, etc).
If you have the choice between winning/losing and losing/losing, what would you choose?
Both Microsoft and Sony will come out OK with this, the real losers will be the PC makers (Dell, Apple, etc). Apple needs to merge with Sony right quick, as the chessboard has just flipped upside down and the pieces are trying to climb over to the other side.
Originally posted by Gon
I submit that the reason it *totally* failed was lack of resolution in TV's. HD is cheap very soon. Wireless keyboards, also required, are common. The perfect usability in a couch setting might need good integrated trackball in the keyb, though, and it might not be easy to convince a lot of people to use that.
HD sets still don't have good ability to play still images and the like. 720p is a decent standard, but TVs are too bright and fuzzy to use for anything except casual internet use, and the couch is not the best environment for using a keyboard, wireless or not. The next gen consoles will play a supplimental role to computers. I don't see the PC going away just yet. (if ever) And, as far as I know, most mac mini/iMacs being sold are being used in traditional environments. (Of course, there is a growing list a very non-conventional uses of the mini, but that's another story).
I have no doubt that people will buy the XBOX 360 to play games on, I just don't think that it's going to go further than being an internet gaming machine. I also would postulate, based on their business model and the competition, that the XBOX 360 will lose more money for Microsoft than did the XBOX 1. I will be very surprised if there's a third XBOX.
Lastly, just to get the point across, I am not a Microsoft hater. I don't like Windows very much, but a lot of my friends work for Microsoft, and they're good people. But for what MS has in the tech dept, they lack in the business dept. Sony is releasing a more capable machine at a similar price point to a more excited audience, gamers and developers alike. I don't see the landscape of the console war changing at all in the next few years -- if anything, Sony will erode some of the marketshare MS does have.
So, in summary, I don't think that Nintendo or Sony will be knocked of trend by the XBOX 360, and that makes Apple even more immune with respect to Microsoft. The PS3 has a better chance at being a competitor to Apple's low end (It does the same things the XBOX does, has a nicer case, should have a bigger game library, and will be the platform of choice to hack given it's monumental innards). However, given electronic buying trends, I think that, outside of Japan, even the PS3 won't do much to derail Mac mini/iMac sales.
1280x720 or 1920x1080 don't look bad when you're 6 inches away but try 6ft away.
Rez independence will allow us to scale the UI up to where it's best for our sets.
WebTV failed because it sucked quite frankly.
Originally posted by hmurchison
WebTV or rather using a STB for computer access won't take off until we get resolution independent UI.
1280x720 or 1920x1080 don't look bad when you're 6 inches away but try 6ft away.
Rez independence will allow us to scale the UI up to where it's best for our sets.
WebTV failed because it sucked quite frankly.
I think you're right-on for the most part. I still don't see consoles becoming more than supplimental devices.
I differ with you about webTV. WebTV itself didn't suck. At the time, the internet sucked, as dial up connections are painfully slow. Next, the living room sucks for browsing the internet. WebTV took a gamble, thinking that people would like browsing a slow internet on the couch. Well, people didn't, especially given the falling cost of PCs.
XBOX 360 will be the same kind of monolithic device, I am told. Unless you will be able to download and run things off the internet (that aren't locked into Microsoft's little online microcosm) it won't succeed beyond its gaming roots. The chances of this being the case, though, are slight.
Originally posted by e1618978
Both Microsoft and Sony will come out OK with this, the real losers will be the PC makers (Dell, Apple, etc). Apple needs to merge with Sony right quick, as the chessboard has just flipped upside down and the pieces are trying to climb over to the other side.
Consoles and set-top boxes have never seriously challenged PCs because their lack of expandability. On the PC side: CPU & GPU performance will constantly improve. Storage (RAM, hard drive, optical drive) will constantly improve. User interface (mouse, keyboard, GUI) will somewhat improve. The software (OS & apps) will improve. Most of all, people will find new uses for PCs because of their general purpose & expandable architecture.
3 years down the road, consoles will use the same CPU, GPU, hard drives, optical drives, slightly improved controllers, OS, and GUI. There will be a lot more games but not a whole lot of other apps. A few hardcore people will learn to hack the system and find new uses for the consoles but the majority of people will use the machine only for games. Some people might still use consoles as web browsers but that's only if it can keep up with the ever-improving web-standards of the time (e.g. real player, quicktime, flash player, java etc.)
Originally posted by e1618978
The Xbox 360 could put quite a dent in the switch campaign, as you will be able to do the basic computer things from your 360 (hook up a mouse, keyboard + computer monitor, surf the web, etc).
Right now I think is the best time for apple. Xbox 360 and PS3 are going to lay some ground work towards doing everything MOST people use computers for: surfing the internet, email, IMs, games, music, and some word processing. This generation still won't have the usability of a PC or Mac, and many people will buy a console for gaming and a computer for internet or general uses. This should give Apple 4-8 years to switch many people who are sick of using Windows with all of its headaches, because lack of games really isn't an issue any more.
But when the next generation consoles come out after this one, computer makers need to have a plan. As other posters have said, HD tv's and bluetoothesque peripherals will be much more mainstream. Why buy a several hundred or thousand dollar computer when they can plop down $300 and get all of the same functionality (assuming Sony and MS could get rid of virus problems and spyware on the consoles). Once again, everyone will buy the computer that has all of the games, which will be a console.
Originally posted by Tidris
From the specs I have seen the Xbox is capable of far more than playing games. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used as a high end personal computer if Microsoft decided to make the necessary software available.
You may be right, but I still remember the pre-release hype for both the xBox and PS2 and neither really lived up to it once it was shipped. The xBox 360 doesn't even really exist yet, and history shows that sadly feature are likely to be cut, or not work as advertised.
Once I see the real price, and real specs, we'll see. Unless you have an HDTV though, TV monitors really aren't the best place for web--text based output just doesn't look that good at TV resolution. Still, it's obvious that low-end computers are going to be bumping up against high end game systems. I imaging eMachines is more worried than Apple, however.
Originally posted by cubist
Yes, the Xbox 360 could be used as a low-end personal computer, e.g. for home computing. The future corporate models could have a DVI interface and bigger hard drive.
The Xbox 360 will probably be faster than the mini - and my mini does not feel very "low end".
The only reason that home users dispise low end computers is the lack of gaming power - and the Xbox will have tons of gaming power.