It'll be hard to swallow paying extra for an Intel iMac AIO with a non-upgradable display and graphics card when a Dell with the exact same hardware is cheaper. I love OS X, but that is quite a premium for the OS.
I think the MP is coming. IBM is still contracted to produce for Apple. Who knows what the consequences are for defaulting on the contract? Presumably IBM is/has been working on the PPC for Apple, just not fast enough. So I think there's more than a mere speed bump to come along in the Power Mac line. No, we're not gonna see a G6. As for the laptops, a speedbump or two is probably all we're gonna get.
I expect we'll see the 970MP appear as the last major PowerPC-base PowerMac. Either in the fall or Jan '06. How this compares to the first of the Intel-based PowerMacs shouldn't be an issue as Intel already has dual cores out (at least in vapourware form), and will have the new cores in that form from the get-go.
I'm not holding my breath for G5-class PowerBooks though. That is probably the first place Apple wants to deploy the Intel chips (that and the iMac & mini).
On one hand, I for one salute the decision to move over to Intel. It's gonna be a rocky two years but Apple will survive the transition IF:
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.
You know, I love my Mac...
Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
Dual core P4's are not vapourware, you can walk into a shop and buy a Pentium D and i955 motherboard right now (at least in New Zealand you can) but of course you will need to get a second mortgage for it....
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...
Dual core P4's are not vapourware, you can walk into a shop and buy a Pentium D and i955 motherboard right now (at least in New Zealand you can) but of course you will need to get a second mortgage for it....
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...
Yes, I should have called them "rare-ware" instead. They are out there, but not tremendously common yet.
On one hand, I for one salute the decision to move over to Intel. It's gonna be a rocky two years but Apple will survive the transition IF:
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.
You know, I love my Mac...
Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
That's the only reason I am holding off to buy a Powermac 2.7 now. Prices need to drop to give some relief to a machine that should be upgraded like that a year ago.
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an act of good faith.
I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an of good faith.
Without a major price move, I don't think Apple survives until the transition. Speed bumps do not equal great new product, and I don't see much beyond that on the horizon.
Why do people think that prices will drop once Apple starts using Pentiums? If anything, I think they will increase. According to an analysis I saw Apple's cost for the G5 is about half of what Dell et al pay for Pentiums. Where's the love?
You know, honestly, I see this as a perfect time for consumers to buy iBooks or Mac minis once they're upgraded (I assume) later this year. Both products are cheap and will easily last until the Intel Macs come out. As long as someone doesn't have a pressing need for a lot of power, iBooks and Mac minis will work great as "holdover" computers until the Intel switch. For those who *do* need the power, they're going to buy the fastest Apple hardware, anyway, regardless of whether it will continue to have software written for it for five more years or fifty more years.
Hell, even for "pro-sumers," this wouldn't be a bad idea. I do page layout and graphics work for my publishing company using Photoshop and InDesign on a 12" 1 GHz Powerbook and a 20" monitor. Once the new Mac mini comes out, I plan on getting one and relaxing for the next year or so... Just gonna wait and see what sorts of updated hardware and software come out for the new Intel Macs. Once Adobe and Microsoft (I'm forced to use Office) are on board with universal binary apps for Apple's Intel OS X, I'll decide whether to keep my current hardware or upgrade to the new Intel-powered stuff. Let me tell you how much of a relief it was to see both Adobe and Microsoft up on stage with Jobs... That got rid of a lot of my fears about the switch to Intel.
It seems like so many people are panicking by this switch. The real rub is with the developers. As long as they come along and write these universal binaries, Apple will do fine during the transition. We have all indication that PPC Macs will be supported for at least 4 or 5 years after their run finally ends, so even people buying the very last iteration of PPC Macs will be supported for an appropriately lengthy time after their purchase. Apple's done, in my mind, absolutely everything it can to make this transition seamless. I think they've made the very best of what could have been a terrible situation with what seems to be IBM's lack of dedication to Apple's PPC needs. The fact that Apple's been planning for this potentiality for at least three years is also quite promising. It's good to see honest to goodness foresight from Apple from time to time.
This switch will either crush Apple, or propel it forward. There's massive potential here to gain huge marketshare here, especially when Longhorn comes out and consumers get to compare it with OS X running on similar hardware. Exciting times here, folks. I, for one, can't wait to see how it all turns out.
I fear that the switch to Intel, is the REASON, why we don't see a MP G5. Apple will not do major update in his G5 line, and will focus all his r&d in developping the new computers.
One of the big plus of the deal with Intel, is that Intel is also a mobo and video maker, so they can help a lot Apple.
while possibly not as agressive, the reality is Apple does need to keep developing new machines to maintain userbase. In a year's time, maybe they will slack some, but really 2 years is too long for the platform to stagnate for pro users, before the intel hardware comes along.
Also, keep in mind that people will still be buying Pro PPC machines after the Intel machines are released; depends on the industry of course, but as a whole pro users tend to be more conservative where new architectures are of concern. Just look at how long the G4 towers survived after the G5 was released.
One thing of concern, was that there was no mention of Rosetta for PPC. So presumably, there is a chance that Applications will be coded for the Intellic OS X and neglected for PPC. I can see this happening in the case of vector instructions, unless Apple can come up with a code library which compiles for the appropriate vector instruction set.
I don't really envy Apple's compiler programmers. seems more and more that the onus will be on them for efficient code.
Why do people think that prices will drop once Apple starts using Pentiums? If anything, I think they will increase. According to an analysis I saw Apple's cost for the G5 is about half of what Dell et al pay for Pentiums. Where's the love?
I think Apple will be forced to be more competitive on price - it will be easier for people to compare specs and say the Apple is slower for the same price. Sure, they can charge a slight premium for looks, brand and OSX, but if they are not fairly competitively priced, they won't sell.
Right now I think I'll either wait for G4 upgrades or Macs to go on Blue Light Special and get set up to last a few years. By the time I buy the New IntelMac and the software upgrades to make the IntelMac go as fast as it should, I might as well just go to the dark side. Probably the RDF will bend my brain, but right now it looks like a lot of money to be not that far from where I am today (and possibly facing a lot more problems). Kind of like when OS X came out and everybody and their dog wanted you to pony up for an upgrade to make it work (well). I love OS X, but I wound up spending a lot of money just to get all the Apps I already owned on board. And now here we are again.
I always thought there is a tremendous difference in coding for PPC and x86. Everyone here on the board said there is no way to go Intel. Now S. J. says we will get x86 and PPC code simultaneously. How will they do the code for altivec and mms?
I always thought there is a tremendous difference in coding for PPC and x86. Everyone here on the board said there is no way to go Intel. Now S. J. says we will get x86 and PPC code simultaneously. How will they do the code for altivec and mms?
I'm so confused.
You would. They were spreading FUD. The only real differences are if you are coding in assembly, using altivec and the endianness issue. Applications are more sensitive to the operating system's API than the CPU. Apple's switch the Intel changes only the CPU - the API exposed by the OS remains the same, ergo, only apps which use PPC assembly, inclduing altivec directly are affected.
Comments
I'm not holding my breath for G5-class PowerBooks though. That is probably the first place Apple wants to deploy the Intel chips (that and the iMac & mini).
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.
You know, I love my Mac...
Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...
Originally posted by Thereubster
Dual core P4's are not vapourware, you can walk into a shop and buy a Pentium D and i955 motherboard right now (at least in New Zealand you can) but of course you will need to get a second mortgage for it....
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...
Yes, I should have called them "rare-ware" instead. They are out there, but not tremendously common yet.
Originally posted by hardhead
On one hand, I for one salute the decision to move over to Intel. It's gonna be a rocky two years but Apple will survive the transition IF:
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.
You know, I love my Mac...
Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
That's the only reason I am holding off to buy a Powermac 2.7 now. Prices need to drop to give some relief to a machine that should be upgraded like that a year ago.
Drop prices NOW!
Originally posted by hardhead
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an act of good faith.
Originally posted by surfacenuts
I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an of good faith.
Without a major price move, I don't think Apple survives until the transition. Speed bumps do not equal great new product, and I don't see much beyond that on the horizon.
We lived through the nineties, we can live through this.
Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
Hell, even for "pro-sumers," this wouldn't be a bad idea. I do page layout and graphics work for my publishing company using Photoshop and InDesign on a 12" 1 GHz Powerbook and a 20" monitor. Once the new Mac mini comes out, I plan on getting one and relaxing for the next year or so... Just gonna wait and see what sorts of updated hardware and software come out for the new Intel Macs. Once Adobe and Microsoft (I'm forced to use Office) are on board with universal binary apps for Apple's Intel OS X, I'll decide whether to keep my current hardware or upgrade to the new Intel-powered stuff. Let me tell you how much of a relief it was to see both Adobe and Microsoft up on stage with Jobs... That got rid of a lot of my fears about the switch to Intel.
It seems like so many people are panicking by this switch. The real rub is with the developers. As long as they come along and write these universal binaries, Apple will do fine during the transition. We have all indication that PPC Macs will be supported for at least 4 or 5 years after their run finally ends, so even people buying the very last iteration of PPC Macs will be supported for an appropriately lengthy time after their purchase. Apple's done, in my mind, absolutely everything it can to make this transition seamless. I think they've made the very best of what could have been a terrible situation with what seems to be IBM's lack of dedication to Apple's PPC needs. The fact that Apple's been planning for this potentiality for at least three years is also quite promising. It's good to see honest to goodness foresight from Apple from time to time.
This switch will either crush Apple, or propel it forward. There's massive potential here to gain huge marketshare here, especially when Longhorn comes out and consumers get to compare it with OS X running on similar hardware. Exciting times here, folks. I, for one, can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Originally posted by Outsider
I bet the MP will still make an appearance.
I fear that the switch to Intel, is the REASON, why we don't see a MP G5. Apple will not do major update in his G5 line, and will focus all his r&d in developping the new computers.
One of the big plus of the deal with Intel, is that Intel is also a mobo and video maker, so they can help a lot Apple.
Also, keep in mind that people will still be buying Pro PPC machines after the Intel machines are released; depends on the industry of course, but as a whole pro users tend to be more conservative where new architectures are of concern. Just look at how long the G4 towers survived after the G5 was released.
One thing of concern, was that there was no mention of Rosetta for PPC. So presumably, there is a chance that Applications will be coded for the Intellic OS X and neglected for PPC. I can see this happening in the case of vector instructions, unless Apple can come up with a code library which compiles for the appropriate vector instruction set.
I don't really envy Apple's compiler programmers. seems more and more that the onus will be on them for efficient code.
Originally posted by neutrino23
Why do people think that prices will drop once Apple starts using Pentiums? If anything, I think they will increase. According to an analysis I saw Apple's cost for the G5 is about half of what Dell et al pay for Pentiums. Where's the love?
I think Apple will be forced to be more competitive on price - it will be easier for people to compare specs and say the Apple is slower for the same price. Sure, they can charge a slight premium for looks, brand and OSX, but if they are not fairly competitively priced, they won't sell.
"From now on we have more options than ever
to satisfy our customers. Folks, say welcome to Intel,
from now on they are on board. From now on, we
will deliver the very best and fastes Macs ever.
From now on it doesn't matter if Intel or PPC
is under the hood. We just take the best available.
This spurs competition, right?"
I just can't believe they ditched the PPC once and
for all, leaving NO backdoor open.
I'm so confused.
Originally posted by copeland
I always thought there is a tremendous difference in coding for PPC and x86. Everyone here on the board said there is no way to go Intel. Now S. J. says we will get x86 and PPC code simultaneously. How will they do the code for altivec and mms?
I'm so confused.
You would. They were spreading FUD. The only real differences are if you are coding in assembly, using altivec and the endianness issue. Applications are more sensitive to the operating system's API than the CPU. Apple's switch the Intel changes only the CPU - the API exposed by the OS remains the same, ergo, only apps which use PPC assembly, inclduing altivec directly are affected.
Hope that helps