Also, I believe Imacs and Powermacs will be the last ones to have the Intel chip on it.
I agree on that one. The way I see it, what Apple really wants out of this deal is a better set of processors for their portables and consumer desktops. Getting a good path for their PowerMacs is a bonus, but...
In my mind, it's all about Centrino "Napa," which will be coming out around the timeframe Jobs gave us. Low-wattage, low-heat, integrated chipset, designed for portables and slimline desktops. So, I expect the laptops and mini to be the first ones runnnig Intel, followed by the PowerMacs and iMacs.
The eMac will be the last machine running PPC, before it fades out completely. Thank god.
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels
I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.
Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.
i dont know if i believe sales will be affected that much. at my design shop i had several standard business class customers say to me, "did you hear about Apple and intel? thats cool" (in the vernacular) When i mentioned the new machines could boot windows, they wanted one. I am starting to think that us lunatics hear at AI, and the technical press in general, dont have as huge an impact on the average joe buying a computer as i once thought. If a product is hot, (Ipod for example) people will buy it even in the face of cheaper options or more equiped compitition. It wouldnt surprise me if some sales segments spiked up, but maybe i am a terminal optimist.
I see all these posts about everyone saying, "well, I'm gonna wait until they come out." This is exactly like the multicore discussions by people posting on G3/350s or something. If you wanted/needed it sunday, GET IT!
If you get a Mac now:
? Enjoy thousands of choices for apps
? Well optimized
? Will have software for it for atleast 4-5 years
? Apple will develop for the PPC for a long time (OSX and pro apps, etc)
(by the time it cant run the software you want in 2010, it couldnt anyway because it would be too slow. Even if we didnt go intel.)
If companies want to port to intel-mac, they're have to use xcode and will port it to the PPC too. Why wouldnt they? Ignoring the large PPC base would be suicide. Thus we will enjoy FAT binaries for a very long time.
Now if you buy a Mactel in 2006:
? You lose a whole year of improved productivity
? The joy of testing revision A products
? Some of your existing apps will have to be run slowly under rosseta
i dont know if i believe sales will be affected that much. at my design shop i had several standard business class customers say to me, "did you hear about Apple and intel? thats cool" (in the vernacular) When i mentioned the new machines could boot windows, they wanted one. I am starting to think that us lunatics hear at AI, and the technical press in general, dont have as huge an impact on the average joe buying a computer as i once thought. If a product is hot, (Ipod for example) people will buy it even in the face of cheaper options or more equiped compitition. It wouldnt surprise me if some sales segments spiked up, but maybe i am a terminal optimist.
Fine, but what about sales right now? Thats the problem.
I think most people were waiting for some sort of Powerbook announcement, and maybe they're referring to waiting for Updated PBooks in some form or another.
But I agree, buying the first generation of these new machines would be a pretty foolish thing to do.
I'm buying a Dual 2.7PM now. It's going to be two years before rev1 of the Pro MacTel units come out. I'm not going to be the first transition guinea pig on the block. I'll use the Dual 2.7 till the transition "wrinkles" get ironed out, which will probably be three years from now, just in time for rev2. Steve has given us about as smooth a transition period that one could ask for. Is anybody running apps (that haven't been upgraded) from three years ago? I doubt it.
"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"
"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"
-- ikDigital
This is true wisdom.... I agree that the best course is probably to attempt to visualize what might be there one day, but look at what you have now, what your needs are, and see what can best serve them. I've finally got evertything on G4s, was hoping to see G5s running Tiger by the end of the year; well, i might still buy that G5 dual (2.3 for me), but I confess it is still HUGE for a Cube man.
Sorry, but Apple released it to the press. That means consumers and investors have got to be kept informed. Since abandoning the summer MacWord, WWDC is the only chance we usually have to hear from Apple, and they've used to launch such non-Developer stuff as monitors, for heavens sake.
Shut up and trust the company is not a compelling argument.
Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).
On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.
What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.
I wonder if they will be doing another bump in the Powermacs or not? 2 years seems pretty long to wait for the intel version.
I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.
Who else would use a 970mp besides apple? Not that many. Perhaps sony and M$ for development machines? IBM needs to be careful how much continued r&d and production it puts into the 970... or else they could end up with a large amount of surplus of these puppies. Apple too needs to be careful about how many chips they order. Or else they could end up with too many as well. I have a feeling the next 2 years will warrant many delays in products... apple waiting till the stock gets low before moderately ordering more chips.
I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.
Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.
That's not stupid at all. This gives developers a WHOLE year to produce intel apps. Lets say intel macs were released two days ago and you bought one. Now you have to put up with nothing but emulation. Sure you can download the immediately ported cocoa apps... but those are pretty worthless compared to big apps like Office, Cinema, Photoshop, Fireworks, BBEdit, Illustrator, Toast, Firefox, etc etc etc. Can you imagine running ALL of those applications in emulation mode? At the same time?
Developers can get the boxes now to convert their apps. I think that is a great opportunity to get this on the road as soon as possible.
No one will be let out to dry by this transition, that's the beauty of it... it really can't be called a transition. It will be completely masked to joe-user. He won't even KNOW that his ppc apps are being emulated. Programmers and wiser users will KNOW its happening but probably won't SEE its happening. Unless you're trying to emulate a program that shouldn't be emulated... like photoshop.
The problem with all this is it was made such a big deal in the press. And joe-user doesn't realize the transition would be masked from him... so he's likely to wait it out. From a developer point of view, this transition is going to be very easy. I'm extremely shocked that apple covered all the bases for this (even though it is apple).
Just relax and pretend to be oblivious about it... if you need a mac now... buy now. If you just bought one in the last few years... wait a year or 2 more.
I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.
Steve used "yet" twice regarding Powerbook G5s and 3GHz, so if it becomes possible we will get them.
Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).
On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.
What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.
Look, no need to blow up. I'm just saying that Monitors are generally not considered professional product, since everyone uses them. Also, a lot of small developers who go to these conferences to do business do not have the budget to fly to Tokyo or Paris. I'd love to, but it ain't going to happen.
I also personally know several product managers and marketing folks that go to WWDC to do business and make contacts of the type that used to be done at MW New York. It's not an excuse for anything, it's just the world we live in. The nature of WWDC has changed.
The excuse that consumer should or will just ignore what comes out of WWCD just doesn't wash. As you say, it's a big announcement. So knowing that, you can't just say "Why are people worried about what's going on at a developer conference, they aren't developers."
I though Apple did a poor job of telling their story. People who are usually really good at covering Apple have the same questions people on this board do. Investors and customers have right to answers from Apple, or else to decide not to buy or invest.
interesting here that half people are saying that the current line up of Powermac and Powerbooks might drop in price because they will become obsolete 2 years from now and the other hand half are saying that the prices won't go down because at least the current line up will work natively with current applications so people would not have to worry about emulators until they decide to upgrade 2 or 3 years from now.
apple will make boxes like mini that appeal to switchers. these will be low price.
however, apple will continue to make great mid and top end boxes that are not low in price and continue to attract the people like us who care about both design and performance.
Comments
Originally posted by gugy
Also, I believe Imacs and Powermacs will be the last ones to have the Intel chip on it.
I agree on that one. The way I see it, what Apple really wants out of this deal is a better set of processors for their portables and consumer desktops. Getting a good path for their PowerMacs is a bonus, but...
In my mind, it's all about Centrino "Napa," which will be coming out around the timeframe Jobs gave us. Low-wattage, low-heat, integrated chipset, designed for portables and slimline desktops. So, I expect the laptops and mini to be the first ones runnnig Intel, followed by the PowerMacs and iMacs.
The eMac will be the last machine running PPC, before it fades out completely. Thank god.
Mini
iBook
iMac / eMac
PowerBook
Powermac
iPod
Originally posted by alliancep.s.i
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels
I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.
Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.
If you get a Mac now:
? Enjoy thousands of choices for apps
? Well optimized
? Will have software for it for atleast 4-5 years
? Apple will develop for the PPC for a long time (OSX and pro apps, etc)
(by the time it cant run the software you want in 2010, it couldnt anyway because it would be too slow. Even if we didnt go intel.)
If companies want to port to intel-mac, they're have to use xcode and will port it to the PPC too. Why wouldnt they? Ignoring the large PPC base would be suicide. Thus we will enjoy FAT binaries for a very long time.
Now if you buy a Mactel in 2006:
? You lose a whole year of improved productivity
? The joy of testing revision A products
? Some of your existing apps will have to be run slowly under rosseta
Originally posted by mikenap
i dont know if i believe sales will be affected that much. at my design shop i had several standard business class customers say to me, "did you hear about Apple and intel? thats cool" (in the vernacular) When i mentioned the new machines could boot windows, they wanted one. I am starting to think that us lunatics hear at AI, and the technical press in general, dont have as huge an impact on the average joe buying a computer as i once thought. If a product is hot, (Ipod for example) people will buy it even in the face of cheaper options or more equiped compitition. It wouldnt surprise me if some sales segments spiked up, but maybe i am a terminal optimist.
Fine, but what about sales right now? Thats the problem.
Originally posted by steve666
Fine, but what about sales right now? Thats the problem.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...104383-9681678
What about them? 15 of the top 25 on Amazon - two Powermac models there too!
But I agree, buying the first generation of these new machines would be a pretty foolish thing to do.
AppTel ALX Xeon SLI
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Unit Price
$7276.00
And they said that Macs were too expensive!
Didn't any of you watch the keynote?
I'm buying a Dual 2.7PM now. It's going to be two years before rev1 of the Pro MacTel units come out. I'm not going to be the first transition guinea pig on the block. I'll use the Dual 2.7 till the transition "wrinkles" get ironed out, which will probably be three years from now, just in time for rev2. Steve has given us about as smooth a transition period that one could ask for. Is anybody running apps (that haven't been upgraded) from three years ago? I doubt it.
"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"
"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"
-- ikDigital
This is true wisdom.... I agree that the best course is probably to attempt to visualize what might be there one day, but look at what you have now, what your needs are, and see what can best serve them. I've finally got evertything on G4s, was hoping to see G5s running Tiger by the end of the year; well, i might still buy that G5 dual (2.3 for me), but I confess it is still HUGE for a Cube man.
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
Sorry, but Apple released it to the press. That means consumers and investors have got to be kept informed. Since abandoning the summer MacWord, WWDC is the only chance we usually have to hear from Apple, and they've used to launch such non-Developer stuff as monitors, for heavens sake.
Shut up and trust the company is not a compelling argument.
Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).
On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.
What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.
Originally posted by the cool gut
I wonder if they will be doing another bump in the Powermacs or not? 2 years seems pretty long to wait for the intel version.
I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.
Who else would use a 970mp besides apple? Not that many. Perhaps sony and M$ for development machines? IBM needs to be careful how much continued r&d and production it puts into the 970... or else they could end up with a large amount of surplus of these puppies. Apple too needs to be careful about how many chips they order. Or else they could end up with too many as well. I have a feeling the next 2 years will warrant many delays in products... apple waiting till the stock gets low before moderately ordering more chips.
Originally posted by steve666
I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.
Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.
That's not stupid at all. This gives developers a WHOLE year to produce intel apps. Lets say intel macs were released two days ago and you bought one. Now you have to put up with nothing but emulation. Sure you can download the immediately ported cocoa apps... but those are pretty worthless compared to big apps like Office, Cinema, Photoshop, Fireworks, BBEdit, Illustrator, Toast, Firefox, etc etc etc. Can you imagine running ALL of those applications in emulation mode? At the same time?
Developers can get the boxes now to convert their apps. I think that is a great opportunity to get this on the road as soon as possible.
No one will be let out to dry by this transition, that's the beauty of it... it really can't be called a transition. It will be completely masked to joe-user. He won't even KNOW that his ppc apps are being emulated. Programmers and wiser users will KNOW its happening but probably won't SEE its happening. Unless you're trying to emulate a program that shouldn't be emulated... like photoshop.
The problem with all this is it was made such a big deal in the press. And joe-user doesn't realize the transition would be masked from him... so he's likely to wait it out. From a developer point of view, this transition is going to be very easy. I'm extremely shocked that apple covered all the bases for this (even though it is apple).
Just relax and pretend to be oblivious about it... if you need a mac now... buy now. If you just bought one in the last few years... wait a year or 2 more.
Originally posted by emig647
I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.
Steve used "yet" twice regarding Powerbook G5s and 3GHz, so if it becomes possible we will get them.
Originally posted by emig647
Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).
On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.
What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.
Look, no need to blow up. I'm just saying that Monitors are generally not considered professional product, since everyone uses them. Also, a lot of small developers who go to these conferences to do business do not have the budget to fly to Tokyo or Paris. I'd love to, but it ain't going to happen.
I also personally know several product managers and marketing folks that go to WWDC to do business and make contacts of the type that used to be done at MW New York. It's not an excuse for anything, it's just the world we live in. The nature of WWDC has changed.
The excuse that consumer should or will just ignore what comes out of WWCD just doesn't wash. As you say, it's a big announcement. So knowing that, you can't just say "Why are people worried about what's going on at a developer conference, they aren't developers."
I though Apple did a poor job of telling their story. People who are usually really good at covering Apple have the same questions people on this board do. Investors and customers have right to answers from Apple, or else to decide not to buy or invest.
however, apple will continue to make great mid and top end boxes that are not low in price and continue to attract the people like us who care about both design and performance.