WTF did they have this on PPV for? Too many Tyson fans with more money than brains.
I did enjoy watching Miguel Cotto fight tonight. I think he should move up to 147 where the next excitement is going to be with Dela Hoya stating he's coming down.
WTF did they have this on PPV for? Too many Tyson fans with more money than brains.
I did enjoy watching Miguel Cotto fight tonight. I think he should move up to 147 where the next excitement is going to be with Dela Hoya stating he's coming down.
Super Judah! Bring it on baby.
PS. Tyson please retire.
Wish granted. He said that he give up. "I have no more the guts for fighting" or something like that (translated two times ...)
He should have retired a long time ago. He is becoming pathetic, but he need money.
The problem with Tyson is that he lost his craziness. He used to be crazy, like a caged animal. He was always in trouble with the law. Now he's calmed down.
Tyson was never a good boxer. He was just lucky enough to be boxing at a time without too much serious competition (and he did lose to many of the stronger contenders.) Tyson was, though, a ferocious fighter. I think he was very good for the sport, because people figured out how to deal with fighters like him, and it mixed things up a bit.
The new cool thing is to say that Tyson was never good. This is, of course, lunacy.
Tyson was great but his legacy is filled with rather weak heavyweights or aging stars like Holmes and Pinklon Thomas. I doubt he would have beaten Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis(earlier in his career)
Today's heavyweight div is in shambles. Guys ducking everyone they can. I'm getting my excitement from 140 and 147 lbs.
Indeed. My recollection is that when he first hit the professional scene he was a sight to behold. My understanding is that he was quite a technician as a boxer, but that this was overshadowed by his sheer strength and size.
Today's heavyweight div is in shambles. Guys ducking everyone they can. I'm getting my excitement from 140 and 147 lbs.
It has changed, and is strangely devoid of many black boxers. I am a fan of Vitaly Klischko, but his brother is kind of a pansy (for a boxer). Middleweight and welterweight are also OK. . . Hopkins is truly awesome. . . but I prefer the knock-out force that is much more prevalent in the heavier groups. It adds some more variables into the mix.
It's funny how many fighters these days are coming from the steppe. . . Cossacks and Mongols: I guess it was only a matter of time.
I'm wondering when this golden age of supermen was where these great historical battles played out, because it just doesn't seem to be there.
He didn't just win. It's not like he got the belt on judges decisions.
And what is the difference between a "good fighter" and a "good technician".
You get in the ring and you try to put the other guy on the ground. In his prime, I don't know who could ever have been better at that than Mike Tyson. Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
You get in the ring and you try to put the other guy on the ground. In his prime, I don't know who could ever have been better at that than Mike Tyson. Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
The problem here is that you don't seem to realize just how much technique and artistry there is in boxing. It's plain and simple for people to realize that kung-fu is highly technical, and that the most monstrous is not always the best. Even with that said, Tyson isn't even a giant compared to the modern breed of boxers -- strangely, often european -- who reach 6'7", tip the scales beyond 260lbs, and have the reach of polar bears.
Tyson overwhelmed his opponents with speed and good combos, but he did lose to Riddick Bowe and Holyfield on at least one occasion each, and I remember being disappointed watching him lose these two. It would be interesting to see Tyson in his prime fight a boxer like Klitschko. Very different styles, but ultimately I think Klitschko's long-reaching jab would have frustrated and fatigued Mike Tyson while keeping him from getting too close. Ultimately, this is nothing but speculation, although it is worthy to note that boxers like Tyson have always existed, and have always been beaten by more patient boxers.
That's always the problem, comparing people in their prime, from different eras.
Certainly one of the greatest talents ever -- not just rage, that's just the flash that was sold to the public, the discipline and upper body movement, the defence, look at his head and neck in those early fights, did you ever see anyone actually connect on Tyson? No you didn't, that's how good he was. Who knows what he might have been if Cus Damato had lived longer, and Don King didn't get his hands into Tyson.
No doubt that he was a very troubled person, and Damato was maybe the only person who never abused him, but rather cared for him. I just saw the after fight commentary -- you can't help but feel for Tyson, you rarely hear such an honest self-appraisal -- what did he say? I haven't got the guts anymore, I don't want to embarass boxing anymore, I wish I could give people back their money? And you could hear it laced with a boxer's bravado too -- "by losing to this caliber of fighter" Maybe insulting, but honest...
Let's face it, Tyson was flat out scary in those early days -- there didn't seem to be any answers, the punches he threw hurt, not just the knockout, which you don't feel untill after, every single throw in the combination -- they were too fast, too hard, too many. Everything you threw would miss, and everything he landed felt like it was going to kill you. How many boxers just gave up, basically, in fear? How many fights did he win in less than 90 sec, or one round. Those guys wanted out of the ring -- that's the only explanation -- big tough guys who couldn't think of anything but how to get out of there. And a 10 count was the fastest way. No one else won that way, so consistently, so unreservedly. That's what made Tyson a phenom!
Anyway, Lennox Lewis is possibly the most underrated heavyweight ever. I think he could have taken Tyson (the fearsom young Tyson) well, though it could easily have gone either way... He's cautious, never scared. Most of his critics don't make the distinction. His dispassionate approach within the ring makes him an interesting opponent to Tyson -- whom he handled, though he did so once Tyson was out of his prime -- Tyson's own fault, he paid step-aside money, so that tells you something even Tyson's handlers could see... A very big, very strong, excellent technician, and level headed (much better than Klitschko). Lewis's greatest asset was that he always seemed ultimately secure in himself, not unafraid, just supremely stoic -- A couple of times too secure, that wouldn't have happened against Tyson.
The other guy, though they were both in different states of decline by the time of Tyson-Holyfield 1, was of course Evander Holyfield. As smart as Lewis was, you could say Holyfield was valiant -- like a loyal dog -- and the hardest working boxer of this last generation, possibly of all time. Always boxed outside his ability -- which was not inconsiderable, but not the same as Tyson, or Lewis. He wasn't afraid of Tyson, and so obviously better conditioned, he looked good, and won. He was even underestimated by Lewis, who should have handled him, but didn't, or couldn't. Tons of hard work and a granite chin will do that for you.
Tyson had the most talent, and, early on, the best training.
Holyfield had the best work ethic. And Lewis had the smarts and physical gifts, but was lazy...
So look at those three fighters, which tell the tale of the last decade, and you see that there were throughout the ages probably a lot of guys that would have known what to do with Tyson. Big George Foreman could take a beating at 42 (Holyfield), and knock out serious contenders (Cooney) and Moorer (for the championship, then at 45!)
With that belly blocking the uppercuts, Tyson might have been in trouble against George too!
But this is not to take away from Tyson. Just to say that picking the best even out of the same generation isn't all that easy. Showmanship, technical skill, physical ability, wins, not just how many, but how, and against whom? You factor everything, and realy have to reserve judgement... anyone can get beaten, and does if they fight long enough.
Give Tyson his due, there was a period of time when he was a nightmare.
It has changed, and is strangely devoid of many black boxers. I am a fan of Vitaly Klischko, but his brother is kind of a pansy (for a boxer). Middleweight and welterweight are also OK. . . Hopkins is truly awesome. . . but I prefer the knock-out force that is much more prevalent in the heavier groups. It adds some more variables into the mix.
Yes the Heavyweight div for the US is devoid of talent and not much talent seems to be coming. Think about it though a HW that is truly athletic is going to make more money playing football or another sport than getting punched in the face for a living. Hopkins is great...I'll miss him when he's gone. Look for the young Olympic stud Andre Ward to be the next potential middleweight star in a few years.
Quote:
Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
Iron Mike was amazing. People forget the first half of his career when he had more head movement and could triple up on hooks. That just doesn't happen in the HW div very often. I have videos where you can see what a huge difference a young and fast Mike Tyson was. He when to Prison and even before then he was a flatfooted one punch boxer by then. He could have been really special.
Comments
I did enjoy watching Miguel Cotto fight tonight. I think he should move up to 147 where the next excitement is going to be with Dela Hoya stating he's coming down.
Super Judah! Bring it on baby.
PS. Tyson please retire.
Originally posted by hmurchison
WTF did they have this on PPV for? Too many Tyson fans with more money than brains.
I did enjoy watching Miguel Cotto fight tonight. I think he should move up to 147 where the next excitement is going to be with Dela Hoya stating he's coming down.
Super Judah! Bring it on baby.
PS. Tyson please retire.
Wish granted. He said that he give up. "I have no more the guts for fighting" or something like that (translated two times ...)
He should have retired a long time ago. He is becoming pathetic, but he need money.
Man. I miss Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Originally posted by midwinter
How old is Tyson now?
Man. I miss Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
He is turning 39 : too old for boxing.
Originally posted by hardhead
He may be too old for professional boxing, but you wouldn't want him pissed off at you for many years to come...
I am not interested by boxing anyone.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I am not interested by boxing anyone.
The problem with Tyson is that he lost his craziness. He used to be crazy, like a caged animal. He was always in trouble with the law. Now he's calmed down.
Tyson was never a good boxer. He was just lucky enough to be boxing at a time without too much serious competition (and he did lose to many of the stronger contenders.) Tyson was, though, a ferocious fighter. I think he was very good for the sport, because people figured out how to deal with fighters like him, and it mixed things up a bit.
Originally posted by groverat
The new cool thing is to say that Tyson was never good. This is, of course, lunacy.
I just don't much enjoy watching heavyweights.
...hmmm... Who were we just talking about?
Originally posted by groverat
The new cool thing is to say that Tyson was never good. This is, of course, lunacy.
Tyson was a tremendous fighter, but a mediocre boxer.
People have been saying THAT for 20 years.
Originally posted by groverat
The new cool thing is to say that Tyson was never good. This is, of course, lunacy.
Tyson was great but his legacy is filled with rather weak heavyweights or aging stars like Holmes and Pinklon Thomas. I doubt he would have beaten Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis(earlier in his career)
Today's heavyweight div is in shambles. Guys ducking everyone they can. I'm getting my excitement from 140 and 147 lbs.
Originally posted by groverat
The new cool thing is to say that Tyson was never good. This is, of course, lunacy.
People have selectively short memories.
Originally posted by Outsider
People have selectively short memories.
Indeed. My recollection is that when he first hit the professional scene he was a sight to behold. My understanding is that he was quite a technician as a boxer, but that this was overshadowed by his sheer strength and size.
I just like middleweights. Always have.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Today's heavyweight div is in shambles. Guys ducking everyone they can. I'm getting my excitement from 140 and 147 lbs.
It has changed, and is strangely devoid of many black boxers. I am a fan of Vitaly Klischko, but his brother is kind of a pansy (for a boxer). Middleweight and welterweight are also OK. . . Hopkins is truly awesome. . . but I prefer the knock-out force that is much more prevalent in the heavier groups. It adds some more variables into the mix.
It's funny how many fighters these days are coming from the steppe. . . Cossacks and Mongols: I guess it was only a matter of time.
He didn't just win. It's not like he got the belt on judges decisions.
And what is the difference between a "good fighter" and a "good technician".
You get in the ring and you try to put the other guy on the ground. In his prime, I don't know who could ever have been better at that than Mike Tyson. Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
Originally posted by groverat
You get in the ring and you try to put the other guy on the ground. In his prime, I don't know who could ever have been better at that than Mike Tyson. Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
The problem here is that you don't seem to realize just how much technique and artistry there is in boxing. It's plain and simple for people to realize that kung-fu is highly technical, and that the most monstrous is not always the best. Even with that said, Tyson isn't even a giant compared to the modern breed of boxers -- strangely, often european -- who reach 6'7", tip the scales beyond 260lbs, and have the reach of polar bears.
Tyson overwhelmed his opponents with speed and good combos, but he did lose to Riddick Bowe and Holyfield on at least one occasion each, and I remember being disappointed watching him lose these two. It would be interesting to see Tyson in his prime fight a boxer like Klitschko. Very different styles, but ultimately I think Klitschko's long-reaching jab would have frustrated and fatigued Mike Tyson while keeping him from getting too close. Ultimately, this is nothing but speculation, although it is worthy to note that boxers like Tyson have always existed, and have always been beaten by more patient boxers.
Certainly one of the greatest talents ever -- not just rage, that's just the flash that was sold to the public, the discipline and upper body movement, the defence, look at his head and neck in those early fights, did you ever see anyone actually connect on Tyson? No you didn't, that's how good he was. Who knows what he might have been if Cus Damato had lived longer, and Don King didn't get his hands into Tyson.
No doubt that he was a very troubled person, and Damato was maybe the only person who never abused him, but rather cared for him. I just saw the after fight commentary -- you can't help but feel for Tyson, you rarely hear such an honest self-appraisal -- what did he say? I haven't got the guts anymore, I don't want to embarass boxing anymore, I wish I could give people back their money? And you could hear it laced with a boxer's bravado too -- "by losing to this caliber of fighter" Maybe insulting, but honest...
Let's face it, Tyson was flat out scary in those early days -- there didn't seem to be any answers, the punches he threw hurt, not just the knockout, which you don't feel untill after, every single throw in the combination -- they were too fast, too hard, too many. Everything you threw would miss, and everything he landed felt like it was going to kill you. How many boxers just gave up, basically, in fear? How many fights did he win in less than 90 sec, or one round. Those guys wanted out of the ring -- that's the only explanation -- big tough guys who couldn't think of anything but how to get out of there. And a 10 count was the fastest way. No one else won that way, so consistently, so unreservedly. That's what made Tyson a phenom!
Anyway, Lennox Lewis is possibly the most underrated heavyweight ever. I think he could have taken Tyson (the fearsom young Tyson) well, though it could easily have gone either way... He's cautious, never scared. Most of his critics don't make the distinction. His dispassionate approach within the ring makes him an interesting opponent to Tyson -- whom he handled, though he did so once Tyson was out of his prime -- Tyson's own fault, he paid step-aside money, so that tells you something even Tyson's handlers could see... A very big, very strong, excellent technician, and level headed (much better than Klitschko). Lewis's greatest asset was that he always seemed ultimately secure in himself, not unafraid, just supremely stoic -- A couple of times too secure, that wouldn't have happened against Tyson.
The other guy, though they were both in different states of decline by the time of Tyson-Holyfield 1, was of course Evander Holyfield. As smart as Lewis was, you could say Holyfield was valiant -- like a loyal dog -- and the hardest working boxer of this last generation, possibly of all time. Always boxed outside his ability -- which was not inconsiderable, but not the same as Tyson, or Lewis. He wasn't afraid of Tyson, and so obviously better conditioned, he looked good, and won. He was even underestimated by Lewis, who should have handled him, but didn't, or couldn't. Tons of hard work and a granite chin will do that for you.
Tyson had the most talent, and, early on, the best training.
Holyfield had the best work ethic. And Lewis had the smarts and physical gifts, but was lazy...
So look at those three fighters, which tell the tale of the last decade, and you see that there were throughout the ages probably a lot of guys that would have known what to do with Tyson. Big George Foreman could take a beating at 42 (Holyfield), and knock out serious contenders (Cooney) and Moorer (for the championship, then at 45!)
With that belly blocking the uppercuts, Tyson might have been in trouble against George too!
But this is not to take away from Tyson. Just to say that picking the best even out of the same generation isn't all that easy. Showmanship, technical skill, physical ability, wins, not just how many, but how, and against whom? You factor everything, and realy have to reserve judgement... anyone can get beaten, and does if they fight long enough.
Give Tyson his due, there was a period of time when he was a nightmare.
It has changed, and is strangely devoid of many black boxers. I am a fan of Vitaly Klischko, but his brother is kind of a pansy (for a boxer). Middleweight and welterweight are also OK. . . Hopkins is truly awesome. . . but I prefer the knock-out force that is much more prevalent in the heavier groups. It adds some more variables into the mix.
Yes the Heavyweight div for the US is devoid of talent and not much talent seems to be coming. Think about it though a HW that is truly athletic is going to make more money playing football or another sport than getting punched in the face for a living. Hopkins is great...I'll miss him when he's gone. Look for the young Olympic stud Andre Ward to be the next potential middleweight star in a few years.
Go back and watch some of his old fights, he was a goddam monster.
Iron Mike was amazing. People forget the first half of his career when he had more head movement and could triple up on hooks. That just doesn't happen in the HW div very often. I have videos where you can see what a huge difference a young and fast Mike Tyson was. He when to Prison and even before then he was a flatfooted one punch boxer by then. He could have been really special.
Does anyone have copies of any of Prince Naseem Hamed's fights?