Except that there are very few Apple stores around. Most of the country, not to mention outside of the country don't have the benefit of going to Apple to buy these. Buy from Apple's web site and you still can't take it in. so what can most people do?
Are you saying that Apple should forgo a large percentage of sales and limit them to the Apple stores because they give "immediate service"? So Apple then has, what, one third of the possible sales that they have now?
How does this help anyone? I don't even understand what your last paragraph has to do with anything. So now Apple should only sell them to people with "blazing fast machines"?
What are you trying to say?
wow... that made my head hurt...
1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.
2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.
3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.
4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.
5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.
1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.
2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.
3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.
4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.
5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.
Let's take your points one at a time.
1. Most people won't drive an hour to buy most items, they want something closer. I also doubt the number. Even if Apple themselves supplied it. Perhaps in another year it may be true. Hp stores? Hp is sold in independent stores, just as many Apple products are. There are thousands of them here in the US, including chains.
2. There are almost no Apple stores outside of the US either. There are also thousands of Hp resellers though, despite the belief that you have that there aren't. Hp is a widely known and distributed brand internationally. Your "solid educated guess" is wrong here. And now you seem to think that Apple resellers are ok. Be consistant. If you don't like them in the US, then you shouldn't like them abroad.
3. I have no argument that buying one that is just Apple branded isn't a bad idea. But does it really matter? Apple is happy selling through Hp or they wouldn't be doing it. Jobs himself said that he was very happy to get Hp's vastly larger distribution system working for Apple.
4. By one third of the sales I didn't mean Hp's contribution alone, if that's what you thought. I meant that if Apple cut off those resellers that you were complaining about then they would be down to the web store and their brick and mortar stores. That plus the loss of Hp would result in much lower sales, possibly by as much as two thirds. Figures have shown that many of the sales are through resellers. Those sales, plus the word of mouth resulting from them, could easily result in those numbers. I had the numbers, but not right now.
5. Who makes rational decisions when buying luxury items? Something an iPod surely is? Most people don't know how a car, or a Tv works either, so what? Many of us would think that using Linux isn't rational either. But those who use it would beg to differ. Most Mac users haven't the faintest idea as to how their machine works, or whether it is fast or slow. As long as it does what it's supposed to do, it's fine. The same thing with that Dell.
1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?
2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.
3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?
4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.
5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.
i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA.
West Bend, WI (my hometown) has a Radio Shack and a Walmart....but no Best Buy or Target. The closest BB or Target is about 30 miles away in Milwaukee.
I agree with what you were saying, but you did defy me!
I own an iPod hp 20GB 4th gen, because I went to Fry's and didn't realize HP even made iPods. That said, getting new earbuds is almost impossible because they don't give the same coverage as Apple does. Likewise, I had a dock break out on me, but thankfully I came to the Apple Store and they replaced it.
The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.
Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.
HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...
I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.
1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?
2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.
3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?
4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.
5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.
You said Apple stores. Stores that sell Apple products are not Apple stores. Where do you go for Apple support if you buy from a reseller?. It's the same. Best Buy and Target, for example do not act as tech centers for iPod sales. You may not have noticed but Apple and Walmart just signed a deal to sell iPods in all of their stores. So much for that.
The only resellers who have support are Apple COMPUTER resellers. If they don't offer Apple computers, they don't offer support. Apple has also moved some phone support to India.
It's hard to tell if there's much disagreement here because you are changing your argument slightly each time. I'm saying that Apple thinks it's wise to have Hp sell iPods, and so do I. That's it! Not everyone wants to look for an Apple store. Apples GOAL is to have a store within one hour of at least 80% of the population. But they aren't close to that now. Even here in NYC where we have a great store in SoHo (where we hold our MetroMac user group meetings), most iPod sales are from resellers who don't sell Mac's.
Again, I NEVER said that Hp sells 1/3 of the iPod volume. If you looked at my early post I said that Hp once sold 16% of all iPods, but that number is now down to possibly 3% (in a much expanded market.) Both Apple and Hp still think that it's worthwhile. That's what I said. When you said that people should buy iPods directly from Apple's stores, I demurred and said that 2/3rd's of iPod sales were not from direct Apple store (or site) sales, and that if Apple closed down that distributorship, they would lose 2/3rd's of their sales. I then included Hp's sales in that as you were saying that one should buy only an Apple iPod and not an "Apple iPod by Hp" as Hp brands them.
As you don't work for Dell (or you would not be selling iPods, you can't speak for what happens there. While Apple has garnered the best service awards and highest reliability awards as well, Dell always comes a close second. Virus protection is the responsibility of the owner of the computer, not the manufacturer. You should be blaming MS for that as it's the OS not the hardware that's at fault. I run Norton's on my Mac's to be polite to my PC using friends and colleagues, not because I need it (so far). Even sales people at the Apple stores give out bad advice at times.
I own an iPod hp 20GB 4th gen, because I went to Fry's and didn't realize HP even made iPods. That said, getting new earbuds is almost impossible because they don't give the same coverage as Apple does. Likewise, I had a dock break out on me, but thankfully I came to the Apple Store and they replaced it.
The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.
Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.
HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...
I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.
It is TOTALLY an Apple product. Anything that works on one will work on the other.
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.
It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.
For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.
It's a win-win for both sides.
Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.
Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.
Yes, and if they could convince Dell to discontinue their player and do the same thing (assuming that the deal with Hp would permit it) it would be even better. Dell can't be selling very many of those. When they had iPods in their catalog, they sold very well. It was what convinced Dell to put their own player out.
If both Dell and Hp offered them, and had iTunes installed, then the other manufacturers would feel as though they had to follow suit. Lenovo, Gateway, Toshiba, etc.
Then it WOULD be a monopoly. If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.
Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.
It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.
For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.
It's a win-win for both sides.
Best,
-K
Also iTunes is put on every HP computer - now that's an incentive!
If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.
Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.
It would become very interesting indeed.
Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.
Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.
I don't know how you do it there so I can't comment on which way is better. Over here, each company offers it's own phone selection, which might be extensive-possibly 20 or more phones. Most carriers will offer some of the same phones. A number of phones are exclusive to one or more carriers. You can also buy a phone from a phone store or a store (or chain) that also offers phones. Some of those phones can be programmed for more than one carrier.
But we have CDMA and GSM and Nextel's service, the name of which escapes me, but will be merged with Sprints CDMA at some point, as they recently bought them.
So most phones come as GSM, or as CDMA, etc. Some models are available in either one. It's a bit complex. The governments over in Europe have much more control over what standards companies use. The FCC over here is mandated only to ensure that the airwaves remain open. They are not allowed to mandate which system companies use in their phones, unless that would make the systems unoperable between them.
The other situation is that cell was big time here before it was by you. Because of that, competing standards arose as companies were experimenting over which system might be better. The EU, coming a bit later, decided to use only one system. They didn't want to use what had become more popular over here-CDMA, and they chose GSM. Also GSM has a few advantages.
However, if 3G ever does get off the ground in a big way, it will change back as it is again base upon CDMA.
Yes, thanks! Here in Finland telecompanies have been allowed to do bundle sale for only like a year now, and still allmost no one buys their telephones that way, so that is why I asked. I know bundled sales are common in other european countries also... In Finland there is nowadys only GSM cellphones, but we started in 1971's with ARP (totally finnish standard) then we went to NMT(Sweden, Norway and Finland) around 1982, so cell phones have been quite a while in Finland. In year 1996 GSM network reached around 80% from potential customers and today network reaches around 99% from whole country, Yes I know very small country, but I find it quite amusing that in these forums someone complains that they cant get carrier in 5 boroughs... Last word, this conversation really doesn't belong to this forum so lets end it here.
iPod HP is not supported on Mac and requires it to be reformatted to work for Mac. Some Wal-Marts carry both. I pushed iPods at Wal-Mart and we were one of the first Wal-Marts to get them. Right before I transferred to another store, we got in lots of iPods. The store I'm at now has pink and silver iPod minis and we've had the iPod shuffle. We carry both HP and Apple iPod minis in silver.
Alexander the Great
P.S. Yes, yes, I know... I work at Wal-Mart, there's no need to poke fun. Sometimes we need to do what's not enjoyable for a time because life's just that way.
All Apple warranties are 1 year - it was Apple who switched the industry trend from 90 days.
kindda. apples warranty is a limited 1 year. its limited because its 1yr. hardware, 90 days tech support (1 call). Furthermore apple charges $30 for repairs after 6 months (which is waived with $60 2yr applecare). in that regard HP's warranty may be better.
[edit]: the above is for ipods, cpus are different.
trust me. ill reveal why i know this so indepth some other time.
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
Except that there are very few Apple stores around. Most of the country, not to mention outside of the country don't have the benefit of going to Apple to buy these. Buy from Apple's web site and you still can't take it in. so what can most people do?
Are you saying that Apple should forgo a large percentage of sales and limit them to the Apple stores because they give "immediate service"? So Apple then has, what, one third of the possible sales that they have now?
How does this help anyone? I don't even understand what your last paragraph has to do with anything. So now Apple should only sell them to people with "blazing fast machines"?
What are you trying to say?
wow... that made my head hurt...
1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.
2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.
3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.
4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.
5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.
Originally posted by mike12309
wow... that made my head hurt...
1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.
2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.
3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.
4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.
5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.
Let's take your points one at a time.
1. Most people won't drive an hour to buy most items, they want something closer. I also doubt the number. Even if Apple themselves supplied it. Perhaps in another year it may be true. Hp stores? Hp is sold in independent stores, just as many Apple products are. There are thousands of them here in the US, including chains.
2. There are almost no Apple stores outside of the US either. There are also thousands of Hp resellers though, despite the belief that you have that there aren't. Hp is a widely known and distributed brand internationally. Your "solid educated guess" is wrong here. And now you seem to think that Apple resellers are ok. Be consistant. If you don't like them in the US, then you shouldn't like them abroad.
3. I have no argument that buying one that is just Apple branded isn't a bad idea. But does it really matter? Apple is happy selling through Hp or they wouldn't be doing it. Jobs himself said that he was very happy to get Hp's vastly larger distribution system working for Apple.
4. By one third of the sales I didn't mean Hp's contribution alone, if that's what you thought. I meant that if Apple cut off those resellers that you were complaining about then they would be down to the web store and their brick and mortar stores. That plus the loss of Hp would result in much lower sales, possibly by as much as two thirds. Figures have shown that many of the sales are through resellers. Those sales, plus the word of mouth resulting from them, could easily result in those numbers. I had the numbers, but not right now.
5. Who makes rational decisions when buying luxury items? Something an iPod surely is? Most people don't know how a car, or a Tv works either, so what? Many of us would think that using Linux isn't rational either. But those who use it would beg to differ. Most Mac users haven't the faintest idea as to how their machine works, or whether it is fast or slow. As long as it does what it's supposed to do, it's fine. The same thing with that Dell.
But those who use it would beg to differ.
I beg to differ.
1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?
2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.
3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?
4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.
5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.
i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA.
West Bend, WI (my hometown) has a Radio Shack and a Walmart....but no Best Buy or Target. The closest BB or Target is about 30 miles away in Milwaukee.
I agree with what you were saying, but you did defy me!
The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.
Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.
HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...
I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.
Originally posted by mike12309
ok...
1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?
2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.
3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?
4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.
5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.
You said Apple stores. Stores that sell Apple products are not Apple stores. Where do you go for Apple support if you buy from a reseller?. It's the same. Best Buy and Target, for example do not act as tech centers for iPod sales. You may not have noticed but Apple and Walmart just signed a deal to sell iPods in all of their stores. So much for that.
The only resellers who have support are Apple COMPUTER resellers. If they don't offer Apple computers, they don't offer support. Apple has also moved some phone support to India.
It's hard to tell if there's much disagreement here because you are changing your argument slightly each time. I'm saying that Apple thinks it's wise to have Hp sell iPods, and so do I. That's it! Not everyone wants to look for an Apple store. Apples GOAL is to have a store within one hour of at least 80% of the population. But they aren't close to that now. Even here in NYC where we have a great store in SoHo (where we hold our MetroMac user group meetings
Again, I NEVER said that Hp sells 1/3 of the iPod volume. If you looked at my early post I said that Hp once sold 16% of all iPods, but that number is now down to possibly 3% (in a much expanded market.) Both Apple and Hp still think that it's worthwhile. That's what I said. When you said that people should buy iPods directly from Apple's stores, I demurred and said that 2/3rd's of iPod sales were not from direct Apple store (or site) sales, and that if Apple closed down that distributorship, they would lose 2/3rd's of their sales. I then included Hp's sales in that as you were saying that one should buy only an Apple iPod and not an "Apple iPod by Hp" as Hp brands them.
As you don't work for Dell (or you would not be selling iPods, you can't speak for what happens there. While Apple has garnered the best service awards and highest reliability awards as well, Dell always comes a close second. Virus protection is the responsibility of the owner of the computer, not the manufacturer. You should be blaming MS for that as it's the OS not the hardware that's at fault. I run Norton's on my Mac's to be polite to my PC using friends and colleagues, not because I need it (so far
Nothing is perfect.
Originally posted by FireEmblemPride
I own an iPod hp 20GB 4th gen, because I went to Fry's and didn't realize HP even made iPods. That said, getting new earbuds is almost impossible because they don't give the same coverage as Apple does. Likewise, I had a dock break out on me, but thankfully I came to the Apple Store and they replaced it.
The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.
Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.
HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...
I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.
It is TOTALLY an Apple product. Anything that works on one will work on the other.
Originally posted by Kasper
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.
It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.
For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.
It's a win-win for both sides.
Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.
Originally posted by Nautical
Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.
Yes, and if they could convince Dell to discontinue their player and do the same thing (assuming that the deal with Hp would permit it) it would be even better. Dell can't be selling very many of those. When they had iPods in their catalog, they sold very well. It was what convinced Dell to put their own player out.
If both Dell and Hp offered them, and had iTunes installed, then the other manufacturers would feel as though they had to follow suit. Lenovo, Gateway, Toshiba, etc.
Then it WOULD be a monopoly. If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.
Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.
It would become very interesting indeed.
Originally posted by Kasper
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.
It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.
For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.
It's a win-win for both sides.
Best,
-K
Also iTunes is put on every HP computer - now that's an incentive!
Originally posted by melgross
If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.
Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.
It would become very interesting indeed.
Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.
Originally posted by Project2501
Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.
I don't know how you do it there so I can't comment on which way is better. Over here, each company offers it's own phone selection, which might be extensive-possibly 20 or more phones. Most carriers will offer some of the same phones. A number of phones are exclusive to one or more carriers. You can also buy a phone from a phone store or a store (or chain) that also offers phones. Some of those phones can be programmed for more than one carrier.
But we have CDMA and GSM and Nextel's service, the name of which escapes me, but will be merged with Sprints CDMA at some point, as they recently bought them.
So most phones come as GSM, or as CDMA, etc. Some models are available in either one. It's a bit complex. The governments over in Europe have much more control over what standards companies use. The FCC over here is mandated only to ensure that the airwaves remain open. They are not allowed to mandate which system companies use in their phones, unless that would make the systems unoperable between them.
The other situation is that cell was big time here before it was by you. Because of that, competing standards arose as companies were experimenting over which system might be better. The EU, coming a bit later, decided to use only one system. They didn't want to use what had become more popular over here-CDMA, and they chose GSM. Also GSM has a few advantages.
However, if 3G ever does get off the ground in a big way, it will change back as it is again base upon CDMA.
Does that make it better or worse for you?
Originally posted by syno
why does HP sell apple iPods, and whats the diffrence?
I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.
Originally posted by AquaMac
I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.
All Apple warranties are 1 year - it was Apple who switched the industry trend from 90 days.
Originally posted by Project2501
Last word, this conversation really doesn't belong to this forum so lets end it here.
Depends on the moderator.
Originally posted by AquaMac
I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.
HP's phone support is 1 year where Apple's is only 90 days.
Alexander the Great
P.S. Yes, yes, I know... I work at Wal-Mart, there's no need to poke fun. Sometimes we need to do what's not enjoyable for a time because life's just that way.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
All Apple warranties are 1 year - it was Apple who switched the industry trend from 90 days.
kindda. apples warranty is a limited 1 year. its limited because its 1yr. hardware, 90 days tech support (1 call). Furthermore apple charges $30 for repairs after 6 months (which is waived with $60 2yr applecare). in that regard HP's warranty may be better.
[edit]: the above is for ipods, cpus are different.
trust me. ill reveal why i know this so indepth some other time.