Simultaneous failure of two Lacie d2 FW hard drives

Posted:
in Genius Bar edited January 2014
Wow.



I looked away from my desktop for about 20 mins and both my LaCie d2 firewire hard drives disappeared. Lacie says it will repair the one under warranty, but is very cagey about what the problem might be. Disk Savers wants $1500+ to retrieve my data. Disk failure is one thing, but two HDs at the same time?!? The chances should be astronomical, so i backed up one to the other. . .



I'm running OS X 10.3.9 on a G4 sawtooth 400 MHz power mac.



So (deep breath):



Has anyone heard of this happening and can make a decent guess at the cause? It's not the power supplies (or at least not just that) because i tried a new power supply with no change.



Do I have any chance of getting data back by Disk Warrior now ('after the fact'), or is it too late? Neither of the drives show up on my desktop.



Lacie suggested i might try taking the drive out of the case and installing it internally in my G4. Anyone know of any instrux as to basically how to do this? I mean i can just take a run at the thing with a screwdriver and see how far i get, but it would be nice to have some idea what the hell I'm up to...



Thanks all.... --Angus
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Angus McCallum

    Wow.



    I looked away from my desktop for about 20 mins and both my LaCie d2 firewire hard drives disappeared. Lacie says it will repair the one under warranty, but is very cagey about what the problem might be. Disk Savers wants $1500+ to retrieve my data. Disk failure is one thing, but two HDs at the same time?!? The chances should be astronomical, so i backed up one to the other. . .



    I'm running OS X 10.3.9 on a G4 sawtooth 400 MHz power mac.



    So (deep breath):



    Has anyone heard of this happening and can make a decent guess at the cause? It's not the power supplies (or at least not just that) because i tried a new power supply with no change.



    Do I have any chance of getting data back by Disk Warrior now ('after the fact'), or is it too late? Neither of the drives show up on my desktop.



    Lacie suggested i might try taking the drive out of the case and installing it internally in my G4. Anyone know of any instrux as to basically how to do this? I mean i can just take a run at the thing with a screwdriver and see how far i get, but it would be nice to have some idea what the hell I'm up to...



    Thanks all.... --Angus




    Firstly, get yourself an empty firewire enclosure. It's a possibility that the bridge has failed in both of your existing ones ... though why it would happen simultaneously, barring some form of power surge, is a mystery to me.



    Try installing your dead HDs into the new enclosure. You may get lucky.



    From that point, I would download Data Rescue X which I have had great luck with in recovering data from drives which would not mount. I believe they still offer a trial version.



    Then you should be all over LaCie's ass trying to get replacements.



    (Oh, and I'm moving this to the Genius Bar, where it belongs.)
  • Reply 2 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    Firstly, get yourself an empty firewire enclosure. It's a possibility that the bridge has failed in both of your existing ones ... though why it would happen simultaneously, barring some form of power surge, is a mystery to me.



    Try installing your dead HDs into the new enclosure. You may get lucky.



    From that point, I would download Data Rescue X which I have had great luck with in recovering data from drives which would not mount. I believe they still offer a trial version.



    Then you should be all over LaCie's ass trying to get replacements.



    (Oh, and I'm moving this to the Genius Bar, where it belongs.)




    Thanks v. much, audiopollution.



    I will look for a FW enclosure immediately. Is the bridge a connection between the firewire port and the drive itself? I ask because, if it's relevant, a DVD drive in the same FW chain is working fine.



    Needless to say, it would be great (relatively speaking) if the problem turns out to be come kind of connection problem, rather than corruption of all the data on the drive.



    Thanks again. And i will stay in the Genius Bar. -- Angus
  • Reply 3 of 37
    audiopollution,



    Do I need a 5.25-inch enclosure? Looks like it from the size of the d2 enclosure, but I've not done this before. . . thanks. -- Angus
  • Reply 4 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Angus McCallum

    audiopollution,



    Do I need a 5.25-inch enclosure? Looks like it from the size of the d2 enclosure, but I've not done this before. . . thanks. -- Angus




    The bridge is between the port and the drive - it's the doohickey that translates the data between the firewire interface and the ATA interface of the drive.



    You will need a 3.5" enclosure. You should be able to pick one up fairly inexpensively. The external case that I use has a Genesys bridge chip in it which, although I haven't had any problems, I have read some bad things about. You should look for one with an Oxford chipset in it.



    You mention that a DVD drive on the same chain is still functioning. I'd suggest that you open that case up and try replacing the DVD drive with the HD but you've expressed that you've never done this before and I'd hate to see you void the warranty or break the DVD drive.
  • Reply 5 of 37
    awalawal Posts: 66member
    My PB hard disk crashed a few months back and I had only a partial backup.



    I bought a bridge and a new internal drive and Data Rescue. I was able to recover EVERYTHING and replace the internal drive for about a thousand less than Apple had offered offered.



    Just as a note, the only problem I encountered with Data Rescue is that some of my filenames were truncated after recovery. I waited until I got Tiger and fixing this was relatively easy.



    Good Luck.



    -awal
  • Reply 6 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AWAL

    a bridge and a new internal drive and Data Rescue. I was able to recover EVERYTHING and replace the internal drive for about a thousand less than Apple had offered offered.



    It's a fantastic program. It was able to recover 99.9% of the files I lost. The other solutions I looked at didn't come close.
  • Reply 7 of 37
    Oh yeah. I should have mentioned, if the new enclosure DOESN'T fix the problem with the drives not mounting, you will need to buy a new large HD and install it internally in your G4. (Easy. Really)



    Then you'll have somewhere for the recovery software to save your lost data.
  • Reply 8 of 37
    ti fighterti fighter Posts: 863member
    I had a friend whose terabyte drive crashed and burned. My 250gig drive attached to my G5 I had for a year, now it wont mount. I have 2 new 500gb drives hooked up to an X-serve that have twice randomly become unreadable by the OS and needed to be formated.



    I wonder about Lacie sometimes...



    Thanks for the heads up on Data Rescue btw,
  • Reply 9 of 37
    audiopollution -



    Terrific, thanks. It's good to know exactly what to look for. I've just opened the LaCie case of the out-of warranty d2 drive, and indeed, inside it's a Maxtor 3.5" hd.



    I see the connections are pretty simple: a 4-pin which must be the power supply, and a much bigger affair that must be the ?ATA data connection.



    One helpful thing that the LaCie help folks suggested was to install it internally in my G4, and I do have spare drive bays. While i don't begrudge spending the $30-50 for an external FW enclosure, does the internal installation optionsound reasonable to you? I could do it right now.
  • Reply 10 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Angus McCallum

    audiopollution -



    Terrific, thanks. It's good to know exactly what to look for. I've just opened the LaCie case of the out-of warranty d2 drive, and indeed, inside it's a Maxtor 3.5" hd.



    I see the connections are pretty simple: a 4-pin which must be the power supply, and a much bigger affair that must be the ?ATA data connection.



    One helpful thing that the LaCie help folks suggested was to install it internally in my G4, and I do have spare drive bays. While i don't begrudge spending the $30-50 for an external FW enclosure, does the internal installation optionsound reasonable to you? I could do it right now.




    Sure! Installing it internally is a breeze. Saves you some cash, too. Granted, if you discover that the drive does mount when installed internally, you'll be buying a new external enclosure anyway.



    4-pin is power and the 80 pin ribbon connector is the ATA. Hopefully you have a spare ATA cable ... or you can always disconnect the optical drive in the G4 and use those cables.



    So, yeah:



    1) Install drive internally. Make sure you've turned the computer off first.

    2) See if the drive mounts.

    3) If it doesn't mount, download Data Rescue trial version. (If it does mount, buy a new external enclosure, and make a fresh backup just in case!)

    4) Install and run Data Rescue.

    5) If the files are recoverable, buy a new HD to recover them to (unless you have room on your boot drive).
  • Reply 11 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    It's a fantastic program. It was able to recover 99.9% of the files I lost. The other solutions I looked at didn't come close.



    That really is good news and pls cross your fingers for me. If Data Rescue saves my stuff, needless to say they will have my $89, my undying gratitude, unlimited testimonials etc. --Angus
  • Reply 12 of 37
    6) If files are recoverable, buy Data Rescue, run it and breathe a sigh of relief.
  • Reply 13 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    Sure! Installing it internally is a breeze. Saves you some cash, too. Granted, if you discover that the drive does mount when installed internally, you'll be buying a new external enclosure anyway.



    4-pin is power and the 80 pin ribbon connector is the ATA. Hopefully you have a spare ATA cable ... or you can always disconnect the optical drive in the G4 and use those cables.



    So, yeah:



    1) Install drive internally. Make sure you've turned the computer off first.

    2) See if the drive mounts.

    3) If it doesn't mount, download Data Rescue trial version. (If it does mount, buy a new external enclosure, and make a fresh backup just in case!)

    4) Install and run Data Rescue.

    5) If the files are recoverable, buy a new HD to recover them to (unless you have room on your boot drive).




    Well, it didn't mount. There's only one spare ATA connector, so I plugged it into that. When i started up the computer, I got a 'stop' sign (circle with diagonal bar) and nothing else. Waited for about 10 mins just in case, but nothing changed. So I switched off, disconnected the hd and started up again: back to normal.



    I almost wondered if the computer was trying to boot off the problem hd, not its 'own'. Which would suggest maybe that there's a pecking order (the problem hd was closer to the motherboard on the ATA ribbon than the computer's hd).



    Maybe if I switch them round?



    It's probably safer to follow your earlier suggestion first, and use the optical drive connections and see if i get lucky... I'll let you know how i get on.
  • Reply 14 of 37
    audiopollutionaudiopollution Posts: 3,226member
    Yeah, disconnect the cables from the optical drive and attach them to the drive that won't mount.
  • Reply 15 of 37
    BINGO.



    Thank you thank you thank you.



    The deafening silence you heard for the last hour was the sound of a man lining up a stack of DVDs to make improvised backups (i.e. copies) of baby pictures, essential correspondence etc.



    The drive is plugged in using the internal optical's cables, sitting ot to unbolted because there's no bay there.



    As far as i can tell, there's no file corruption at all -- so it was clearly the bridge. If I'd listened to LaCie, my choices were kissing my files goodbye, or paying Drive Savers a fortune (to do what I've just done with your help and a screwdriver).



    I don't know how to thank you. Actually, i do. Since you're a moderator, you can probably see my email address? Pls send me an email? Tks-Angus
  • Reply 16 of 37
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Angus McCallum

    BINGO.



    Thank you thank you thank you.



    The deafening silence you heard for the last hour was the sound of a man lining up a stack of DVDs to make improvised backups (i.e. copies) of baby pictures, essential correspondence etc.



    The drive is plugged in using the internal optical's cables, sitting ot to unbolted because there's no bay there.



    As far as i can tell, there's no file corruption at all -- so it was clearly the bridge. If I'd listened to LaCie, my choices were kissing my files goodbye, or paying Drive Savers a fortune (to do what I've just done with your help and a screwdriver).



    I don't know how to thank you. Actually, i do. Since you're a moderator, you can probably see my email address? Pls send me an email? Tks-Angus






    *sigh* reading this brings a tear to my eye *sniff*



    seriously, well done angus, (edit: and audiopollution) glad you recovered all that data.



    yeah, i'm not sure what is up with lacie nowadays. i would just get an external FW400/800 3.5" enclosure of your choice and pop the maxtor into that one. much more cheap, scalable, upgradeable.
  • Reply 17 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    *sigh* reading this brings a tear to my eye *sniff*



    seriously, well done angus, (edit: and audiopollution) glad you recovered all that data.



    yeah, i'm not sure what is up with lacie nowadays. i would just get an external FW400/800 3.5" enclosure of your choice and pop the maxtor into that one. much more cheap, scalable, upgradeable.




    It was a good day around here, that's for sure. Thanks Apple Insider and especially thanks audiopollution. The fact that the bridge on both my d2 drives failed does make me wonder whether LaCie is being completely upfront about the reliability of that component. If it is defective, then the fact that both failed though one drive is much older than the other suggests that they haven't hurried to fix the problem; and the fact that both drives failed within 20 minutes of each other suggests the frightening possibility of some kind of chain failure (though LaCie denied that possibility to me, and of course lightening can strike twice in the same place at the same time, etc.) it would be interesting to hear from others who might have suffered the same kind of failure on LaCie d2 FW hard drives. . .



    Following audiopollution's advice and yours, I'm now in the market for a 3.5" external FW enclosure for both the Maxtor drives that are inside the LaCie cases (Oxford chipset as audiopollution mentioned) -- and maybe more for than two drives: your point about scalability is important: I would prefer some kind of big box like a rack component with several bays that could accommodate more Maxtors (or similar) as my storage needs increase.



    An second-best option would be several one-in-one enclosures that would clip or bolt or slot together, so that over time I wouldn't end up with a large number of boxes to stack, fall over etc.



    I've been looking at the web pages of the catalog houses that I know, but I have a feeling I don't know exactly what to look for, or maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. . . -Angus
  • Reply 18 of 37
    There is a large selection here.



    If you're looking for a multi-bay enclosure, your options are limited if you want a case that will solely hold 3.5" hard-drives. Most multi-bay cases are designed to also accomodate 5.25" devices (such as DVD-Burners, etc.).



    If you want a 2 drive enclosure, perhaps this?



    That case is, however, Firewire 800.



    I expect that you haven't upgraded your Sawtooth with a FW800 card. As far as I know, the enclosure will work fine, but at the reduced FW400 speed that you are currently used to. (Reference here.) I'm sure someone else will be able to let you know for sure.
  • Reply 19 of 37
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Angus McCallum

    ..............

    Following audiopollution's advice and yours, I'm now in the market for a 3.5" external FW enclosure for both the Maxtor drives that are inside the LaCie cases (Oxford chipset as audiopollution mentioned) -- and maybe more for than two drives: your point about scalability is important: I would prefer some kind of big box like a rack component with several bays that could accommodate more Maxtors (or similar) as my storage needs increase.



    An second-best option would be several one-in-one enclosures that would clip or bolt or slot together, so that over time I wouldn't end up with a large number of boxes to stack, fall over etc.



    I've been looking at the web pages of the catalog houses that I know, but I have a feeling I don't know exactly what to look for, or maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. . . -Angus




    my most recent 3.5" enclosure i bought was for the equivalent of about us$40 or so, and i got lucky because it looks great, has a cool blue/purple light, and is pretty much some 'no brand' taiwan thing but has a nice bridge chipset and was fun to open up and swap out drives and stuff ~ so much so that i dropped a very new maxtor 160gb from fiddling with it too much. anyway it's 7200rpm and i've just hooked it up to the PC to handle long stretches of bitTorrent action, sparing my iBook from that needless punishment



    umm i'm definitely rambling here, yeah, the skilled appleInsiders could point you in the direction that your looking for, maybe even a chipset with built in RAID or something for fw800 if you have it. maybe start a new thread in current hardware? the geniuses have solved your genius bar issue now



    i'm far away from the UK and US so right now i pretty much take my chances with affordable china/taiwan stuff and dealers that will hang around long enough to honour warranties
  • Reply 20 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    There is a large selection here.



    If you're looking for a multi-bay enclosure, your options are limited if you want a case that will solely hold 3.5" hard-drives. Most multi-bay cases are designed to also accomodate 5.25" devices (such as DVD-Burners, etc.).



    If you want a 2 drive enclosure, perhaps this?



    That case is, however, Firewire 800.



    I expect that you haven't upgraded your Sawtooth with a FW800 card. As far as I know, the enclosure will work fine, but at the reduced FW400 speed that you are currently used to. (Reference here.) I'm sure someone else will be able to let you know for sure.




    I'm beginning to think that a multi-bay enclosure that would (1) have a large number of bays, like more than four, and (2) accommodate both 3.5" and 5.25" devices, might be a good idea in the long run.



    Although more expensive initially, I would save over time by being able to buy caseless 'internal' HDs (I see that 250MB Maxtors are now available for a little over $100, or well less than 50¢/GB, great!) and then upgrade them, swap them out etc. over time (presuming that the FW standard itself does not become obsolete).



    Also, the time is coming when I will need a new optical writer anyway (my old LaCie/Pioneer DVR-104 chugs at 2X, but only writes DVD-R/RW, and is sometimes temperamental; I lust after a new all-formats lightscribe, but that's another story...), and that would be 5.25", so I could put all this gear into one case (maybe even a beast like this.



    I'm slightly intimidated by all the RAID talk, though, and have no idea what master/slave jumper are - would this case be plug-and-play with OS X, or is there more to it? And would I need some kind of converter brackets to secure 3.5" HDs into those 5.25" bays?



    And you're right: my computer only has FW400 ports, but unless I misunderstand the description of that 8-bay beastie, it seems to come kitted out with connectors for 400 and 800, so it would work for me now (400 is fine) and even better when the great day comes that I get a more rown-up computer. . .
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