Next January is my guess. Apple eng needs time to play with them.
They have already played with them for long enough. Although the definition of "enough" depends on the issues that arise. Remember the leaked reference to 4 CPUs in the CHUD tools some months ago? This was the proof that Apple is testing the new processors for at least six months now.
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I bet there will be at least one upgrade for Powerbooks also.
Yes, but not with a G5. The 7448 is coming this October. It will have even lower power consumption per clock than the low power 970FX.
1. No signs of immediate low-power 970FX availability. It's probably not going to be mass-produced until later this year. Apple will need to engineer a new PB G5 motherboard (and likely the outer case too) just to have it replaced by a Intel motherboard and chassis in less than a year. Not very cost-effective.
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
3. Performance-wise, the G5 seems to be about the equal of G4 when run at under 1.7 GHz. The 7448 will not need a case change or any significant motherboard changes.
Do you think that eventually we will see G5 upgrade kits like we already see for G4? It might be nice to buy something like this a year from now...
I don't think that the G5 processor can be upgraded. There are many posts on this topic with comments from many engineering-types of people. Try to do a search.
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
Intel already has 64bit processors on the market with the designation EM64t, so I would assume that Apple will use them to not have to worry about this.
Intel already has 64bit processors on the market with the designation EM64t, so I would assume that Apple will use them to not have to worry about this.
Does Intel have a 64-bit notebook processor? The Intel product matrix is kinda messy and I can't seem to find the CPU that you are talking about.
No. Merom will be the first 64 bit notebook processor. I forget what the name was for the current 64 bit processors from Intel were but they are basically most of the current Pentium 4s.
Thanks Telomar. I see that Merom will be out next year. Just in time for the PPC-Intel transition.
So point #2 of my original post is now inaccurate. But point #1 and #3 is still true so I still don't think that we will ever see a Powerbook G5.
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Originally posted by BeigeUser
I don't expect a Powerbook G5 also.
1. No signs of immediate low-power 970FX availability. It's probably not going to be mass-produced until later this year. Apple will need to engineer a new PB G5 motherboard (and likely the outer case too) just to have it replaced by a Intel motherboard and chassis in less than a year. Not very cost-effective.
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
3. Performance-wise, the G5 seems to be about the equal of G4 when run at under 1.7 GHz. The 7448 will not need a case change or any significant motherboard changes.
IBM has just announced the970 MP in Japan. How soon before we see a dual dual core Power Mac 2.5?
Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent. Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.
Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.
I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition? Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.
I don't think that the G5 processor can be upgraded. There are many posts on this topic with comments from many engineering-types of people. Try to do a search.
Actually, I think people have said that upgrading a G4 to a G5 is close to impossible. People have upgraded single 1.6 G5's to 1.8 by replacing the CPU module, so it is possible... It would be interesting to see if an upgrade to the 970MP is possible. Was the 970MP supposed to be pin-compatible with the 970FX? Going from dual 1.8's to dual dual 1.8's on my machine would be interesting.
Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent.
No it suggest that Apple had nothing to offer that was better. Further this recent IBM announcement should be of concern to many that we may be taking a step backwards with respect to single thread performance.
Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications which make a large part of Apple installed base. So while system performance goes up application performance could stagnate.
Quote:
Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.
Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.
Yep and Apples willingness to use the hardware. Frankly I'm not to sure Apple is willing.
Quote:
I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition?
Oh come on now you have read the same material the rest of us have read, Apple will not need to worry about crushing anything with these chips as they stand today. Now there is the possibility that IBM is holding back faster clock rate devices but I don't hold out alot of hope for that.
Quote:
Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.
Well we can only hope that Apple grasps where the industry is going with respect to thread processors and SMP systems. If Apple doesn't realize where the industry is headed then they are doomed. Ideally they will lead the way, but as you say they have a tendency to go suboptimal.
If Apple doesn't realize where the industry is headed then they are doomed.
Apple? Doomed? Again?
My guess is that Apple creates where the industry is headed. Whether this last-gasp offering from IBM has anything to do with that is another question.
What's everyone's feelings on the chances of the 970MP being stuffed into an iMac by the end of this year? What's the heat output of this chip compared to the current iMac G5 chip? Do you think any other iMac specs would change or do you even think there will be another iMac before Apple switches to Intel?
Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications....
Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.
What's everyone's feelings on the chances of the 970MP being stuffed into an iMac by the end of this year? What's the heat output of this chip compared to the current iMac G5 chip? Do you think any other iMac specs would change or do you even think there will be another iMac before Apple switches to Intel?
I don't think it'll happen. It would be nice if these improvements to the 970 meant that Apple could stuff a regular 2.3GHz in the iMac as one last PPC hurrah before the switch to intel. (It would also be nice if the iMac got a dual core Yonah after the switch... we'll see what happens.)
I suspect that the 970MP is too hot for the iMac, given the reports of heat problems with the current iMacs... I think the only machine the 970MP might get used is in the Powermac...
Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.
Thank you.
Yes most of apple's base is single threaded.... but OSX is built to multi-task! that's the greatest thing about unix. You can run 20 different programs at once without any lag. I love dual processors!
I definitely agree with that. I'd rather have 4 1.5ghz cpu's than 2 2.5ghz cpu's. I multitask like the devil when developing.... kind of made me reluctant to get this powerbook... but some day I'll have duals on a laptop
Comments
I bet there will be at least one upgrade for Powerbooks also.
Originally posted by kmok1
Next January is my guess. Apple eng needs time to play with them.
They have already played with them for long enough. Although the definition of "enough" depends on the issues that arise. Remember the leaked reference to 4 CPUs in the CHUD tools some months ago? This was the proof that Apple is testing the new processors for at least six months now.
I bet there will be at least one upgrade for Powerbooks also.
Yes, but not with a G5. The 7448 is coming this October. It will have even lower power consumption per clock than the low power 970FX.
1. No signs of immediate low-power 970FX availability. It's probably not going to be mass-produced until later this year. Apple will need to engineer a new PB G5 motherboard (and likely the outer case too) just to have it replaced by a Intel motherboard and chassis in less than a year. Not very cost-effective.
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
3. Performance-wise, the G5 seems to be about the equal of G4 when run at under 1.7 GHz. The 7448 will not need a case change or any significant motherboard changes.
Originally posted by Wingnut
Do you think that eventually we will see G5 upgrade kits like we already see for G4? It might be nice to buy something like this a year from now...
I don't think that the G5 processor can be upgraded. There are many posts on this topic with comments from many engineering-types of people. Try to do a search.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
Intel already has 64bit processors on the market with the designation EM64t, so I would assume that Apple will use them to not have to worry about this.
Originally posted by gameguy56
Intel already has 64bit processors on the market with the designation EM64t, so I would assume that Apple will use them to not have to worry about this.
Does Intel have a 64-bit notebook processor? The Intel product matrix is kinda messy and I can't seem to find the CPU that you are talking about.
So point #2 of my original post is now inaccurate. But point #1 and #3 is still true so I still don't think that we will ever see a Powerbook G5.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
I don't expect a Powerbook G5 also.
1. No signs of immediate low-power 970FX availability. It's probably not going to be mass-produced until later this year. Apple will need to engineer a new PB G5 motherboard (and likely the outer case too) just to have it replaced by a Intel motherboard and chassis in less than a year. Not very cost-effective.
2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.
3. Performance-wise, the G5 seems to be about the equal of G4 when run at under 1.7 GHz. The 7448 will not need a case change or any significant motherboard changes.
Originally posted by garyp
IBM has just announced the970 MP in Japan. How soon before we see a dual dual core Power Mac 2.5?
Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent. Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.
Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.
I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition? Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
I don't think that the G5 processor can be upgraded. There are many posts on this topic with comments from many engineering-types of people. Try to do a search.
Actually, I think people have said that upgrading a G4 to a G5 is close to impossible. People have upgraded single 1.6 G5's to 1.8 by replacing the CPU module, so it is possible... It would be interesting to see if an upgrade to the 970MP is possible. Was the 970MP supposed to be pin-compatible with the 970FX? Going from dual 1.8's to dual dual 1.8's on my machine would be interesting.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent.
No it suggest that Apple had nothing to offer that was better. Further this recent IBM announcement should be of concern to many that we may be taking a step backwards with respect to single thread performance.
Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications which make a large part of Apple installed base. So while system performance goes up application performance could stagnate.
Quote:
Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.
Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.
Yep and Apples willingness to use the hardware. Frankly I'm not to sure Apple is willing.
Quote:
I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition?
Oh come on now you have read the same material the rest of us have read, Apple will not need to worry about crushing anything with these chips as they stand today. Now there is the possibility that IBM is holding back faster clock rate devices but I don't hold out alot of hope for that.
Quote:
Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.
Well we can only hope that Apple grasps where the industry is going with respect to thread processors and SMP systems. If Apple doesn't realize where the industry is headed then they are doomed. Ideally they will lead the way, but as you say they have a tendency to go suboptimal.
Dave
If Apple doesn't realize where the industry is headed then they are doomed.
Apple? Doomed? Again?
My guess is that Apple creates where the industry is headed. Whether this last-gasp offering from IBM has anything to do with that is another question.
Originally posted by wizard69
Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications....
Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.
Originally posted by Metropolis Man
What's everyone's feelings on the chances of the 970MP being stuffed into an iMac by the end of this year? What's the heat output of this chip compared to the current iMac G5 chip? Do you think any other iMac specs would change or do you even think there will be another iMac before Apple switches to Intel?
I don't think it'll happen. It would be nice if these improvements to the 970 meant that Apple could stuff a regular 2.3GHz in the iMac as one last PPC hurrah before the switch to intel. (It would also be nice if the iMac got a dual core Yonah after the switch... we'll see what happens.)
I suspect that the 970MP is too hot for the iMac, given the reports of heat problems with the current iMacs... I think the only machine the 970MP might get used is in the Powermac...
Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.
Thank you.
Yes most of apple's base is single threaded.... but OSX is built to multi-task! that's the greatest thing about unix. You can run 20 different programs at once without any lag. I love dual processors!