Translation from French site x86-secret (news from 7/13/05):
Quote:
Yonah is a 65 nm and Dual Core (for some versions) Pentium M derivative, with a shared 2 MB cache. Planned for the beginning of 2006, the first "B-Step" samples has started to circulate around. Good news, those work properly at 2.5 GHz and have very few bugs. The yields are also excellent and Intel should be ready to launch mass production at school reentry. We managed to obtain some information, which we gathered here:
Note incoming of Celeron M based on the Yonah core, with 1 MB L2 cache. Also note the strange disappearance of i955XM, which seems to have been killed by Intel. This one was initially planned as the Pentium M "Extreme Edition" platform...
I hope we won't see those "Celeron M" coming into iBook...
I think Apple won't use "Single-Core Pentium M ULV" neither because they will run only at 1.06 and 1.20 GHz (G4 in iBook is already at 1.2 and 1.33 Ghz and soon at 1.6 Ghz). Remember that the purpose of the Intel switch is to provide higher frequencies with less power drain, or around same frenquency but with more cores. So at the timeframe when we see Yonah into Mac laptops (~ 10 months) iBook must have at least Single-Core Pentium M 756 and 766, or Dual-core LVs (x38/x48/x58 ). PowerBook could come with the higher frequency x20/x30/x40/x50/x60 dualcore top flavors.
Yonah comes with Centrino 3 "Napa" platfom with wifi 802.11a/b/g, and "Alviso" chipset with DDR2-667, PCIe x16, and SATA-300.
Apple could also reserve Yonah just for iBook (and possibly Mac mini) in June 2006, letting more room for its possible frequencies, and wait a little more to make Intel PowerBoks between september 2006 and january 2007, this high-end introducing the successor Merom processor (dualcore @ 2.5 Ghz, 4 MB shared L2, 64-bit, "Crestine" chipset with DDR2-800, Centrino 4 "Santa Rosa" with wifi 802.11a/b/g/n and perhaps WiMax 802.16).
I've seen the ULV application a few times on windows machines. One notebook is only a little thicker than a pad of notebook paper. It's so thin, they didn't even try to put an optical drive it it. They also like to use ULVs in Tablet PCs, and haven't those been a rumor at Apple for a while now?
I've seen the ULV application a few times on windows machines. One notebook is only a little thicker than a pad of notebook paper. It's so thin, they didn't even try to put an optical drive it it. They also like to use ULVs in Tablet PCs, and haven't those been a rumor at Apple for a while now?
I'm really hoping this Intel lark will give us Tablets, PocketMacs etc etc - exciting stuff that isn't iPods!
Regarding the chipset, word on the street is that Apple will use a standard Intel DRM part ("trusted computing" as they call it) to make sure that Mac OS doesn't install on other PCs. The DRM part can also be used for iTunes and other functions. It doesn't appear that it can be used by the consumer to protect his stuff against the RIAA/MPAA or other corporations, however. The DRM part is included with standard Intel chipsets.
Sossaman is a SMT Yonah, intended for low-power servers and embedded markets. SMT means that you can have a quadcore system (dual CPU, each dual core) in one PC.
Then there will be Merom, successor of Yonah targeted to Q3 2006. It will add 20-30 % performance boost at the same clock rate, and will bring other improvements I described in my previous post.
Yonah will be used in all-in-one slim-form factor PCs and Media Centers (think Mac mini).
But the true "Yonah for desktop" is in fact "Merom for desktop" which will be Conroe (Q4 2006).
Well, most of Dothan's transistor count is taken up by the L2 cache, which the cpu can power down when not in use (which helps a bunch in TDP and power management). The remaining cpu components don't take up that many transistors.
I think this is part of the "engineering solutions to reduce power consumption" in THT's post, that Intel implemented but IBM/Freescale did not.
I hope we won't see those "Celeron M" coming into iBook...
I think Apple won't use "Single-Core Pentium M ULV" neither because they will run only at 1.06 and 1.20 GHz (G4 in iBook is already at 1.2 and 1.33 Ghz and soon at 1.6 Ghz).
Don't have such worries. Before releasing a hardware update, Apple has to evaluate and test the performance of the new hardware, to make sure that it gives at least some minimal speed boost and/or adds some features. This is not so because they like to be nice to us, but because they won't be able to market and sell hardware that performs worse than the previous models of the same line.
Ugh. Why must this FPU nonsense continue to be perpetuated?
It's by no means nonsense. My macs seem to render a lot faster than everyone says they should: that is, they render faster than my PCs do, which are all pretty high end.
You can banter-on with as many "benchmark" tests as you want, but ultimately the only benchmark that matters are the expensive programs I use, and would rather not have to spend even more money to replace or upgrade. It took a long time for these relatively small companies to get stuff out for Altivec and OS X. Most of them release versions for PC already, which should help somewhat, but they don't run very fast in comparison with the mac versions.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple didn't do the obvious and kept designing their own chipsets.
That would be a big mistake.
Lots of companies used to and still make chipsets for Intel CPUs. But none of the them has ever been able to produce better chipsets than Intel themselves.
Yonah is derived from the Pentium-M (Dothan) core.
No, Yonah is translated as Jonah, as in the prophet. I suppose the fact that Intel's Israel-based development team is an integral part of their recent efforts is good consolation for Apple selling out.
I'm pretty sure Apple will take advantage of Centrino chips, to get the standard wifi, sound, etc. Hopefully they'll avoid shared video, and opt for the Centrino-to-ATI/nVidia bridge instead.
SMT means that you can have a quadcore system (dual CPU, each dual core) in one PC.
Well, sorta. It means you'll have 2 real cpu cores, but 4 "virtual cores." SMT does boost performance 10-15% for single core (2 virtual cores) cpus. The netburst architecture did well with SMT, since it has such long pipelines, lots of clock speed, and abundant bandwidth. I'll be interested to see SMT in shorter pipe cpus like Pentium M and K8. Yes, AMD is planning SMT for the not-to-distant future.
Quote:
That would be a big mistake.
Lots of companies used to and still make chipsets for Intel CPUs. But none of the them has ever been able to produce better chipsets than Intel themselves.
This is true, mainly because Intel makes the CPU, and they don't mind taking their sweet time before launching a new chipset if a problem arises. Via and others have to push less refined chipsets out in order to keep up with Intel, since Intel gets to be the first to exploit their newest CPUs. This aside, I think it would be tragic for Apple to use anything but Intel's chipsets. It again falls back to one of Apple's biggest motives for using Intel CPUs--to be spec-competative with Windows machines. All major OEMs that use Intel CPUs typically also use Intel chipsets. Any Intel delay will affect all Intel-based OEMs. This means Apple is hurt no more or no less than any other competitor. The only exception might be those OEMs who offer AMD as well.
I've read that the "Sossaman" processor was supposed to be "Yonah for Desktops"
This is rather confusing.
Pentium M is only supposed to be used in notebooks, but some vendors are shipping Pentium M desktops. Likewise, Intel will tell everyone "Yonah is for notebooks and Conroe/Sossaman/whatever is for desktops" and then vendors will go and ship Yonah desktops because Conroe/Sossaman/whatever isn't out yet.
Pentium M is only supposed to be used in notebooks, but some vendors are shipping Pentium M desktops. Likewise, Intel will tell everyone "Yonah is for notebooks and Conroe/Sossaman/whatever is for desktops" and then vendors will go and ship Yonah desktops because Conroe/Sossaman/whatever isn't out yet.
Yeah...I think it's clear Apple wants a cool but fast chip to drop into the Mac mini.
Sure AMD makes fast CPUs but I don't think they make them cool. And it's clear where Apple is headed with the desktop...Apple desktops (other than the PowerMac) are pretty much laptops in a different form factor.
Apple is trying to miniaturize everything. I think it's about damn time computers got smaller. Why a tower when you could have a modular design for maximum compactness?
Apple is showing us what the future will be. Computer will one day completely fit behind a flat and thin LCD-type screen. You'll be able to put these screens just about anywhere you want...on a desk, on a wall, whatever.
These screen/computers will connect to the other screens via a wireless network.
These screen/computers will share CPU time and other resources via an Xgrid-like environment.
Why a TV when you could play all your DVDs, CDs, download movies, or watch digital TV off a computer?
Computers in the future will become less bulky and have a more functional design thanks to Apple...if anyone will speed this process up, it's Apple.
The iMac G5 and Mac mini are just the beginning. And I think Apple couldn't see them become faster and keep the same form factor (or become smaller) with Motorola, IBM or AMD.
Sure AMD makes fast CPUs but I don't think they make them cool. And it's clear where Apple is headed with the desktop...Apple desktops (other than the PowerMac) are pretty much laptops in a different form factor.
That depends what you're talking about.... (amd vs intel for coolness). If you're talking about desktop chips... amd chips are provent to run on average 10deg celsius cooler than Intel chips. Look at Venice and San Diego... these guys are running so cool that people are overclocking them nearly 800mhz higher than their stock speed and still running under 50deg cels under full load. That is amazing! However... intel's portable chips smoke amd on every front.
Well, sorta. It means you'll have 2 real cpu cores, but 4 "virtual cores." SMT does boost performance 10-15% for single core (2 virtual cores) cpus. The netburst architecture did well with SMT, since it has such long pipelines, lots of clock speed, and abundant bandwidth. I'll be interested to see SMT in shorter pipe cpus like Pentium M and K8. Yes, AMD is planning SMT for the not-to-distant future.
Sorry, I made a mistake here! Sossaman is not a SMT Yonah, it is a SMP Yonah... "SMP" means "Symmetric MultiProcessing", and as for today no Pentium M is SMP capable.
word on what street? the DRM ability in these chipsets WILL not be used to control OS installation, or how OS X installs on Intel chipsets. And that's not the word on the streets, that's me telling you straight out the way it is.
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
Regarding the chipset, word on the street is that Apple will use a standard Intel DRM part ("trusted computing" as they call it) to make sure that Mac OS doesn't install on other PCs. The DRM part can also be used for iTunes and other functions. It doesn't appear that it can be used by the consumer to protect his stuff against the RIAA/MPAA or other corporations, however. The DRM part is included with standard Intel chipsets.
OK webmail, so no LaGrande-style locking. But since you seem to know absolutely about as many secret things as Steve Jobs himself how will you technically prevent Mac OS X from beeing installed on PCs then?
Comments
Yonah is a 65 nm and Dual Core (for some versions) Pentium M derivative, with a shared 2 MB cache. Planned for the beginning of 2006, the first "B-Step" samples has started to circulate around. Good news, those work properly at 2.5 GHz and have very few bugs. The yields are also excellent and Intel should be ready to launch mass production at school reentry. We managed to obtain some information, which we gathered here:
-- Dual Core --
- Yonah
- Pentium M x60 : 2.33 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q3'06
- Pentium M x50 : 2.16 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($637)
- Pentium M x40 : 2.00 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($423)
- Pentium M x30 : 1.83 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($294)
- Pentium M x20 : 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($241)
- Yonah LV- Pentium M LV x58 : 1.83 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q3'06
- Pentium M LV x48 : 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($316)
- Pentium M LV x38 : 1.50 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q1'06 ($284)
-- Single Core --- Yonah
- Pentium M 766 : 1.83 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q3'06
- Pentium M 756 : 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / 2MB L2 / Q2'06 ($209)
- Yonah ULV- Pentium M ULV xxx : 1.20 GHz / FSB533 / 2MB L2 / Q3'06
- Pentium M ULV xxx : 1.06 GHz / FSB533 / 2MB L2 / Q2'06
- Celeron Yonah- Celeron M 430 : x.xx GHz / FSB533 / 1MB L2 / Q3'06
- Celeron M 420 : x.xx GHz / FSB533 / 1MB L2 / Q2'06
- Celeron M 410 : x.xx GHz / FSB533 / 1MB L2 / Q3'06
- Celeron Yonah ULV- Celeron M ULV 423 : x.xx GHz / FSB533 / 1MB L2 / Q2'06
Note incoming of Celeron M based on the Yonah core, with 1 MB L2 cache. Also note the strange disappearance of i955XM, which seems to have been killed by Intel. This one was initially planned as the Pentium M "Extreme Edition" platform...I hope we won't see those "Celeron M" coming into iBook...
I think Apple won't use "Single-Core Pentium M ULV" neither because they will run only at 1.06 and 1.20 GHz (G4 in iBook is already at 1.2 and 1.33 Ghz and soon at 1.6 Ghz). Remember that the purpose of the Intel switch is to provide higher frequencies with less power drain, or around same frenquency but with more cores. So at the timeframe when we see Yonah into Mac laptops (~ 10 months) iBook must have at least Single-Core Pentium M 756 and 766, or Dual-core LVs (x38/x48/x58 ). PowerBook could come with the higher frequency x20/x30/x40/x50/x60 dualcore top flavors.
Yonah comes with Centrino 3 "Napa" platfom with wifi 802.11a/b/g, and "Alviso" chipset with DDR2-667, PCIe x16, and SATA-300.
Apple could also reserve Yonah just for iBook (and possibly Mac mini) in June 2006, letting more room for its possible frequencies, and wait a little more to make Intel PowerBoks between september 2006 and january 2007, this high-end introducing the successor Merom processor (dualcore @ 2.5 Ghz, 4 MB shared L2, 64-bit, "Crestine" chipset with DDR2-800, Centrino 4 "Santa Rosa" with wifi 802.11a/b/g/n and perhaps WiMax 802.16).
Originally posted by Wingnut
I've seen the ULV application a few times on windows machines. One notebook is only a little thicker than a pad of notebook paper. It's so thin, they didn't even try to put an optical drive it it. They also like to use ULVs in Tablet PCs, and haven't those been a rumor at Apple for a while now?
I'm really hoping this Intel lark will give us Tablets, PocketMacs etc etc - exciting stuff that isn't iPods!
Some more about Yonah replacing desktop processors.
This is rather confusing.
Then there will be Merom, successor of Yonah targeted to Q3 2006. It will add 20-30 % performance boost at the same clock rate, and will bring other improvements I described in my previous post.
Yonah will be used in all-in-one slim-form factor PCs and Media Centers (think Mac mini).
But the true "Yonah for desktop" is in fact "Merom for desktop" which will be Conroe (Q4 2006).
Originally posted by Wingnut
Well, most of Dothan's transistor count is taken up by the L2 cache, which the cpu can power down when not in use (which helps a bunch in TDP and power management). The remaining cpu components don't take up that many transistors.
I think this is part of the "engineering solutions to reduce power consumption" in THT's post, that Intel implemented but IBM/Freescale did not.
Originally posted by Cosmos 1999
I hope we won't see those "Celeron M" coming into iBook...
I think Apple won't use "Single-Core Pentium M ULV" neither because they will run only at 1.06 and 1.20 GHz (G4 in iBook is already at 1.2 and 1.33 Ghz and soon at 1.6 Ghz).
Don't have such worries. Before releasing a hardware update, Apple has to evaluate and test the performance of the new hardware, to make sure that it gives at least some minimal speed boost and/or adds some features. This is not so because they like to be nice to us, but because they won't be able to market and sell hardware that performs worse than the previous models of the same line.
Originally posted by atomicham
Ugh. Why must this FPU nonsense continue to be perpetuated?
It's by no means nonsense. My macs seem to render a lot faster than everyone says they should: that is, they render faster than my PCs do, which are all pretty high end.
You can banter-on with as many "benchmark" tests as you want, but ultimately the only benchmark that matters are the expensive programs I use, and would rather not have to spend even more money to replace or upgrade. It took a long time for these relatively small companies to get stuff out for Altivec and OS X. Most of them release versions for PC already, which should help somewhat, but they don't run very fast in comparison with the mac versions.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple didn't do the obvious and kept designing their own chipsets.
That would be a big mistake.
Lots of companies used to and still make chipsets for Intel CPUs. But none of the them has ever been able to produce better chipsets than Intel themselves.
Originally posted by atomicham
My guess is that the English translation of the Hebrew "Yonah" allows for the "Tonah" spelling, but not knowing Hebrew, it is a complete guess.
According to this:
Wiki
Yonah is derived from the Pentium-M (Dothan) core.
No, Yonah is translated as Jonah, as in the prophet. I suppose the fact that Intel's Israel-based development team is an integral part of their recent efforts is good consolation for Apple selling out.
SMT means that you can have a quadcore system (dual CPU, each dual core) in one PC.
Well, sorta. It means you'll have 2 real cpu cores, but 4 "virtual cores." SMT does boost performance 10-15% for single core (2 virtual cores) cpus. The netburst architecture did well with SMT, since it has such long pipelines, lots of clock speed, and abundant bandwidth. I'll be interested to see SMT in shorter pipe cpus like Pentium M and K8. Yes, AMD is planning SMT for the not-to-distant future.
That would be a big mistake.
Lots of companies used to and still make chipsets for Intel CPUs. But none of the them has ever been able to produce better chipsets than Intel themselves.
This is true, mainly because Intel makes the CPU, and they don't mind taking their sweet time before launching a new chipset if a problem arises. Via and others have to push less refined chipsets out in order to keep up with Intel, since Intel gets to be the first to exploit their newest CPUs. This aside, I think it would be tragic for Apple to use anything but Intel's chipsets. It again falls back to one of Apple's biggest motives for using Intel CPUs--to be spec-competative with Windows machines. All major OEMs that use Intel CPUs typically also use Intel chipsets. Any Intel delay will affect all Intel-based OEMs. This means Apple is hurt no more or no less than any other competitor. The only exception might be those OEMs who offer AMD as well.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I've read that the "Sossaman" processor was supposed to be "Yonah for Desktops"
This is rather confusing.
Pentium M is only supposed to be used in notebooks, but some vendors are shipping Pentium M desktops. Likewise, Intel will tell everyone "Yonah is for notebooks and Conroe/Sossaman/whatever is for desktops" and then vendors will go and ship Yonah desktops because Conroe/Sossaman/whatever isn't out yet.
Originally posted by wmf
Pentium M is only supposed to be used in notebooks, but some vendors are shipping Pentium M desktops. Likewise, Intel will tell everyone "Yonah is for notebooks and Conroe/Sossaman/whatever is for desktops" and then vendors will go and ship Yonah desktops because Conroe/Sossaman/whatever isn't out yet.
Yeah...I think it's clear Apple wants a cool but fast chip to drop into the Mac mini.
Sure AMD makes fast CPUs but I don't think they make them cool. And it's clear where Apple is headed with the desktop...Apple desktops (other than the PowerMac) are pretty much laptops in a different form factor.
Apple is trying to miniaturize everything. I think it's about damn time computers got smaller. Why a tower when you could have a modular design for maximum compactness?
Apple is showing us what the future will be. Computer will one day completely fit behind a flat and thin LCD-type screen. You'll be able to put these screens just about anywhere you want...on a desk, on a wall, whatever.
These screen/computers will connect to the other screens via a wireless network.
These screen/computers will share CPU time and other resources via an Xgrid-like environment.
Why a TV when you could play all your DVDs, CDs, download movies, or watch digital TV off a computer?
Computers in the future will become less bulky and have a more functional design thanks to Apple...if anyone will speed this process up, it's Apple.
The iMac G5 and Mac mini are just the beginning. And I think Apple couldn't see them become faster and keep the same form factor (or become smaller) with Motorola, IBM or AMD.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Sure AMD makes fast CPUs but I don't think they make them cool. And it's clear where Apple is headed with the desktop...Apple desktops (other than the PowerMac) are pretty much laptops in a different form factor.
That depends what you're talking about.... (amd vs intel for coolness). If you're talking about desktop chips... amd chips are provent to run on average 10deg celsius cooler than Intel chips. Look at Venice and San Diego... these guys are running so cool that people are overclocking them nearly 800mhz higher than their stock speed and still running under 50deg cels under full load. That is amazing! However... intel's portable chips smoke amd on every front.
Originally posted by Wingnut
Well, sorta. It means you'll have 2 real cpu cores, but 4 "virtual cores." SMT does boost performance 10-15% for single core (2 virtual cores) cpus. The netburst architecture did well with SMT, since it has such long pipelines, lots of clock speed, and abundant bandwidth. I'll be interested to see SMT in shorter pipe cpus like Pentium M and K8. Yes, AMD is planning SMT for the not-to-distant future.
Sorry, I made a mistake here! Sossaman is not a SMT Yonah, it is a SMP Yonah... "SMP" means "Symmetric MultiProcessing", and as for today no Pentium M is SMP capable.
Originally posted by cubist
Regarding the chipset, word on the street is that Apple will use a standard Intel DRM part ("trusted computing" as they call it) to make sure that Mac OS doesn't install on other PCs. The DRM part can also be used for iTunes and other functions. It doesn't appear that it can be used by the consumer to protect his stuff against the RIAA/MPAA or other corporations, however. The DRM part is included with standard Intel chipsets.