Dual GHZ G4 for audio apps?

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
I've been waiting centuries to dump my G3 400mhz

but i need a mac that can use piles of software

synths AND software samplers. (along with mountains of effects and eq, on Cubase VST 5.1/32. Everyone babbles

on and on about graphic speed. For audio, it's

not a question of how fast i can do something; the question is, can i do it at all? On the G3,

once i reach the limit of soft synths, samplers,

effects and eqs, it simply collapses. Does anyone

know what the deal with this new one is? Does it

have adequately sized audio balls, or must i

wait 'till i'm too old to make good music?

By the way, i know you'll say that it'll be light years better than the G3, but that's not what i'm asking. I need to know if i can use 8 softsynths,

3 or 4 packed soft samplers, and 50 to 60 tracks

of audio with many effects and eqs. If so,

i'll buy one tonight.



PS (is it possible to get a PC and somehow

install mac OS? If I could run Mac OS on a PC,

i'd jump ship in a minute.)
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    Well, I don't think you will get that much out of even a dual ghz machine.I have a dual 450 with its max ram and here's what I get:



    One or two reaktor ensembles (high load,) digital performer 3 with about 24 tracks, and 5-10 plugins (mostly waves, and motu supplied plugins.) Beyond that and things start to get flaky. I don't use softsamplers so I have no idea how well one would perform on my box.



    I'm certain that you can get significantly more than that on a dual ghz, just not as much as you want. You're talkin pro-tools territory there (and a 60 track pro-tools rig will run at least $20k)
  • Reply 2 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by nepo:

    <strong>I've been waiting centuries to dump my G3 400mhz

    but i need a mac that can use piles of software

    synths AND software samplers. (along with mountains of effects and eq, on Cubase VST 5.1/32. Everyone babbles

    on and on about graphic speed. For audio, it's

    not a question of how fast i can do something; the question is, can i do it at all? On the G3,

    once i reach the limit of soft synths, samplers,

    effects and eqs, it simply collapses. Does anyone

    know what the deal with this new one is? Does it

    have adequately sized audio balls, or must i

    wait 'till i'm too old to make good music?

    By the way, i know you'll say that it'll be light years better than the G3, but that's not what i'm asking. I need to know if i can use 8 softsynths,

    3 or 4 packed soft samplers, and 50 to 60 tracks

    of audio with many effects and eqs. If so,

    i'll buy one tonight.



    PS (is it possible to get a PC and somehow

    install mac OS? If I could run Mac OS on a PC,

    i'd jump ship in a minute.)</strong><hr></blockquote>



    1st: MacOS on a PC: forget it.



    2nd: It all depends on the quality of the plug in's. i.e. "Absynth" will be a lot more hungry than "Pro 52", Trueverb is different from Wunderverb. Don`t expect to get a computer right now that will run all of your high quality samplers etc. plus 60 Tracks of audio. Unfortunately in audio the dual machines will not go to their max performance because of either bad OS 9 multiprocessing or bad implementation for multiprocessing in the app.

    My guess would be 150 Tracks of raw audio on the new machines. Everything else is so unpredictable, but there are solutions for you:



    No.1: Buy the TC Powercore with its great plug in's and processing power.



    No.2: Wait for the Steinberg System Link, so you can use your old mac and combine the power with the new Mac in the most flexible way.



    Both solutions make your dream come true, I guess.
  • Reply 3 of 26
    Get an Atari ST! You youngsters don't know you're born!



    Hopefully the audio situation in OS X is going to be pretty good - I'd imagine a dual G4 would run nicely as soon as they get an SMP-aware solution out of the door - sounds like Logic and Propellerheads are going to be first.
  • Reply 4 of 26
    This is just in time!



    I have been thinking about becoming interested in making music on the Mac.



    I have *no idea* where to even begin.



    Clues?
  • Reply 5 of 26
    50 or 60 tracks of digital audio recording, with "lots of EQ and effects" ??!?



    I think you're gonna want to spend for a Pro Tools TDM system if you're really doing something that intense. And you're going to want to get a really really really fast RAID setup to handle 50-60 tracks, let alone the processing power required for all that DSP.
  • Reply 6 of 26
    &gt;I have been thinking about becoming interested in making music on the Mac.



    You've been thinking about becoming interested? Dude, just do it.



    &gt;I have *no idea* where to even begin.



    Get Reason, Digital Performer or Logic, a good synth (like Roland XP-30 or the RS-series), a midi-interface and start. If you want to do the audio thing, check out MOTU's audio interfaces or DigiDesign's ProTools.
  • Reply 7 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by BerberCarpet:

    <strong>This is just in time!



    I have been thinking about becoming interested in making music on the Mac.



    I have *no idea* where to even begin.



    Clues?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Get Reason NOW!



    <a href="http://www.propellerheads.se"; target="_blank">http://www.propellerheads.se</a>;



    NOW!
  • Reply 8 of 26
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Ok, so I was looking at Reason. It says it works best with a high quality ASIO sound card.



    Any ideas or recommendations on a good ASIO sound card for Mac?



    What is an ASIO card? Audio Sampling I/O? (just a guess).



    I've got a musician friend who wants to get a new computer to do some audio stuff and I'd like to learn a little more about it - on a Mac. He uses an old PC now, but doesn't do audio stuff with it. Not to mention my gal is getting more and more ancy to do some of this stuff on her own, rather than hang out in a friends studio.



    Any good site I could go to to learn more about audio stuff on the Mac?



    [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
  • Reply 9 of 26
    A good place to shop for audio & midi software & hardware is <a href="http://www.audiomidi.com"; target="_blank">www.audiomidi.com</a> . Their prices are competitive and they have more information about their products than most online shops.



    If I didn't already own a digital audio interface, I'd definitely wait before choosing one, until it becomes clearer who's going to be supporting OSX. You could play it safe and buy one of the Midiman/M-Audio cards since they already have OSX beta drivers.



    But PCI audio i/o is not my preferred way to deal with audio interfacing. Firewire is it! I just picked up a MOTU 828 and I took my MOTU 2408 mk II out of my Powermac and I'm going to sell it. No more PCI cards to keep my Powermac from going to sleep properly.



    Oh, and I'm going to buy the newest version of Reason as soon as it's clear that I'll be getting OSX compatibility without paying for another upgrade. Propellerheads announced OSX support plans but I still don't know if that'll be a free upgrade, or the next paid upgrade version. Anyone know?
  • Reply 10 of 26
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Yeah, I was checking out the MIDIMAN Delta Cards - 1ms latency seems top notch (for our needs). That MOTU Firewire box is damn sweet too though.



    It seems like the MIDIMAN stuff would be pretty well integrated with Reason - I only say that because they link to each other's pages. If I'm wrong please say so.



    Lots of options in the audio world. Interesting stuff too.



    I need more money...

  • Reply 11 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by seb:

    <strong>Yeah, I was checking out the MIDIMAN Delta Cards - 1ms latency seems top notch (for our needs). That MOTU Firewire box is damn sweet too though.



    It seems like the MIDIMAN stuff would be pretty well integrated with Reason - I only say that because they link to each other's pages. If I'm wrong please say so.



    Lots of options in the audio world. Interesting stuff too.



    I need more money...

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Midiman Delta Audiophlie or RME cards are the best choice for ASIO compatible cards right now as PCI based versions. Firewire- take MOTU. USB- take Emagic , best with Logic Audio 5.0 for OS X in the near future. Reason can be integrated into Logic or Cubase (for mac I'd recommend Logic)
  • Reply 12 of 26
    Those Midiman & M-Audio cards are a great deal, too. I got my Audiophile 2496 for my 2nd Windows machine, for $99!



    Speaking of firewire, my friend just bought MOTU's new 896 (which is why he sold me his 828 cheap) and that thing is beautiful! That's just about all the audio interface anybody could ever need, for about $1200.
  • Reply 13 of 26
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Wow, great advice guys!



    What about a DigiDesign - Digi 001? Would it work with Reason? Or would the Pro Tools LE be enough?



    Or would you stick with a USB Logic/ EMagic solution.



    Is the DigiDesign really worth that much more than the MidiMan Delta card PCI set up?



    For $1200 would you go for the DigiDesign Digi 001 or MOTU 896? I really like the idea of a Firewire setup, I think. Is the USB solution as inferior (although probably very good) as it seems it would be? Or does the Logic software make up for it?



    ...If you were recommending to a person getting a setup from scratch (we already have instruments of course)...



    Sorry for pelting you with the questions.



    [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 26
    Digidesign hardware is designed to work best with the company's own ProTools software. It wouldn't be my first choice when it comes to ASIO usage. If you can afford it, the MOTU box is your BEST bet. It comes with its own digital audio recording software also - a MIDI-less Digital Performer 3.0. As soon as I decide which new Mac to buy [800DP, 933MHz, or 1GHzDP], I'll grab an 828 myself.



    --JBytes
  • Reply 15 of 26
    Right, the Digi interface is not superior hardware -- it's just that it's the cheapest hardware you can use as an interface to any version of Pro Tools above the "free" version of the software.



    Of the many recording artists I know, most are leaving the Pro Tools platform in favor of MOTU hardware and either Digital Performer, Logic, or in some a couple of cases cases Cubase.



    I don't know if I'd want to use a USB digital audio interface. Not that it wouldn't work, just that I'd feel like I was coming close to maxing out the bandwidth of the USB port. With Firewire (or PCI) there are no such worries.



    The MOTU 896 really is a cool, powerful unit, and I almost held out for one, but honestly the 828 will more than meet my needs (I'm never inputting more than 8 channels of audio into my machine at once, ever) and I got it really cheap from my friend who just upgraded. In fact you'll probably find plenty of 828s for sale used, from people who want to buy an 896 because it's newer (even though most of those people don't record above 16 bit/48khz, or more than 2 tracks in at once).



    I was in Guitar Center tonight, and I came really close to picking up a copy of Reason tonight, but I held out because I still don't know about the OSX upgrade issue.



    BTW, all the Midiman & M-Audio gear on the shelves at GC had big blue "X" OSX stickers on the boxes.
  • Reply 16 of 26
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Thanks guys. Great input.



    I'm thinking the MOTU Firewire box is what I want. If nothing else than for the reason that I plan to get a Powerbook around MWNY in July, and it would be soo nice to be able to hook that box up to it - if need be.



    Excellent help. Thanks much.
  • Reply 17 of 26
    Hey I'm considering getting the midiman midisport 2x2 (or maybe 4x4 but I don't think I'll need 4x4..yet)



    my audio hardware consists of this

    1 MPC 2000 by akai

    1 Roland Jp-8080

    1 midi keyboard

    1 lexicon MPX 200

    2 stanton str8-100 turntables and stanton esm mixer(yea the mixer is shitty, but I couldn't afford anythign better at the time)

    1 bass guitar(custom fernandes...very cool)

    and a tascam portastudio 564



    all this equip is totally awesome I use it everyday but I don't have midi so I can't interface with the computer and all I can do is record loops and shit on the akai because the tascam portastudio is MD data and MD data disks are rare and expensive and I only have one...etc etc etc.



    at anyrate I'm thinking about the midiman 2x2, would this be a good choice?

    or do I only need 1 input, come to think of it, the portastudio acts mainly as a mixer hub for all this equip, so seeing how I run it all into the mixer and I could just run a midi cable out from the mixer into the 1 input midiman, but would I be able to record tracks and have them looping back and be able to overdub and have complete control over the equip if I only had 1 input?

    which Is why I think 4x4 might be needed then I get one for the Jp8080 one for the MPC one for the lexicon and one for the keyboard

    right?

    or is there a better way to do all this.



    I'm pretty knowledgable about the hardware in itself, I really want to get into computer music and I do know a bunch about it, but I don't understand midi very well and could use some help there any advice or direction would be much appreciated



    thanks



    -wrong robot





    p.s. I'm on a budget of maybe 300 dollars at the moment so motu and all that good stuff is out of the question though I would love a motu 828 if I had the cash



    p.p.s the akai Mpc 4000 is AMAZING! :eek: damn I wish I could afford one of those too, makes my mpc 2000 look like shite



    [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Wrong Robot ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 26
    since this thread has so many knowledgable audio people, i thought this'd be the perfect place to ask...



    i'm also thinking of getting started with computer based recording. i know very little about it, but have looked at all the options you've mentioned. my budget is low and i'd like to get something portable. for now, i just want something where i can do pretty basic recording and learn.. with emphasis on learning..



    anyway.. my main question is.. for my purposes, would an iBook be capable enough? or would i be much better off buying the low-end Ti?

    (to start out with, i'm planning on connecting it to the M Audio Duo.. unless any of you have any objections)



    also.. any books you'd recommend on recording, MIDI, etc..? any places on the internet you'd recommend for me?.. any other bulletin boards with great discussions like this?



    this thread has already been extremely helpful!.. any other help would be greatly appreciated!



    Thanks!
  • Reply 19 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by confirmed:

    <strong> i'm also thinking of getting started with computer based recording. i know very little about it, but have looked at all the options you've mentioned. my budget is low and i'd like to get something portable. for now, i just want something where i can do pretty basic recording and learn.. with emphasis on learning..



    anyway.. my main question is.. for my purposes, would an iBook be capable enough? or would i be much better off buying the low-end Ti?

    (to start out with, i'm planning on connecting it to the M Audio Duo.. unless any of you have any objections)



    also.. any books you'd recommend on recording, MIDI, etc..? any places on the internet you'd recommend for me?.. any other bulletin boards with great discussions like this?

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    You'll do fine with an iBook for audio or midi. I'll be using my iBook with my MOTU 828 occasionally, and the guy I bought the 828 from had done plenty of live sound jobs using his iBook 500 with it.



    There's an article on XLR8yourmac indicating that the iBook 600 is at least as good for audio & video work, as the Ti G4-400. My friend explained the reasons why to me (I didn't read the article) but I don't remember exactly why.



    Books on digital audio and the like tend to always be outdated, so it's better to rely on magazines and the internet. You can read these forums, though they're not really beginner level -- more like pro level -- but lots of good info:



    <a href="http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi"; target="_blank">http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi</A>;
  • Reply 20 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by confirmed:

    <strong>since this thread has so many knowledgable audio people, i thought this'd be the perfect place to ask...



    i'm also thinking of getting started with computer based recording. i know very little about it, but have looked at all the options you've mentioned. my budget is low and i'd like to get something portable. for now, i just want something where i can do pretty basic recording and learn.. with emphasis on learning..



    anyway.. my main question is.. for my purposes, would an iBook be capable enough? or would i be much better off buying the low-end Ti?

    (to start out with, i'm planning on connecting it to the M Audio Duo.. unless any of you have any objections)



    also.. any books you'd recommend on recording, MIDI, etc..? any places on the internet you'd recommend for me?.. any other bulletin boards with great discussions like this?



    this thread has already been extremely helpful!.. any other help would be greatly appreciated!



    Thanks!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Listen, for a start in the audio world an iBook is more than enough. If it is mainly audio you work on, go for Pro Tools Free. If it is more MIDI based, try out Logic Fun (also free) or buy Cubasis 2.0 with lots of things to play around with for about 90 $. Think about an audio box with integrated MIDI interface if needed.
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