Listen, for a start in the audio world an iBook is more than enough. If it is mainly audio you work on, go for Pro Tools Free. If it is more MIDI based, try out Logic Fun (also free) or buy Cubasis 2.0 with lots of things to play around with for about 90 $. Think about an audio box with integrated MIDI interface if needed.</strong>[/QUOTE]
The iBook is more than adequate for a beginner. There are professionals getting by with far less. As for software, Gibson [which bought Opcode] has just released Studio Vision Pro in the public domain. This package was considered one of the best audio and MIDI softwares in the 90s. Of course, it will not work with OS X; but I think 9.2 and below should be fine.
I'd like to echo confirmed's thanks to everybody participating in this thread, as well as his request for more music/audio info. Especially forums like this.
I've been into music all my life, and w/ my planned upgrade (~MWNY - gHz+ iMac / PMG5 ), I'm look to get involved w/ making music on my Mac, too.
Unfortunately, other than a MiniMoog, I've used no electronic music equipment, and I don't know anyone who's interested in music-making, so I have no personal experience to draw on. I don't know how to evaluate/compare/contrast Opcode vs MOTU vs. Steinberg vs. Emagic "workstations", much less soft, hard, & plug-in instruments. I have no idea why TDM vs. VST, and I don't get MIDI at all <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> !
I read magazines, but they're like a lot of computer documentation: laboriously explaining how to use the mouse, and re-phrasing every menu item, then jumping into the minutiae of some strange-sounding procedure without offering a clue why the reader would want to do that. Very frustrating!
Surely, someone must be running a decent computer-music site or forum somewhere, and I want to be there!
Hell, maybe AI would take the initiative & institute a Music & Audio forum!
<strong>You could start out by buying Keyboard magazine, and/or Electronic Musician magazine. You'll pick up a lot of useful info that way, especially since it sounds like you don't have a few specific questions, but are actually starting almost from scratch.
The main thing is that you should not let obsession with gear take precedence over a willingless to play and experiment with the gear you have.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm going to assume, for no good reason, that you're responding to my post.
I've been reading Electronic Musician off-&-on for years (finally got around to subscribing), as well as Computer Music, Mix, Remix, and occasionally Keyboard.
You're right, I don't have a few specific questions: I have A LOT of specific questions. So many, that it's hard to find a forum for them.
Perhaps I do have 'an obsession with gear': at the moment (and for a long time) now, my gear consists of a 266mHz PBG3, a tambourine, a broken doumbek, and some penny-whistles. I've been a drummer longer than anything, played guitar for many years, sang (briefly) w/ the Atlanta Boys Choir, and later w/ various bands, etc. Was even in "the biz" for a number of years. Been out of all that for 15-20 years.
In planning to upgrade to G4+, decided the new Mac could drive a MIDI keyboard and some music software, and figured I'd fulfill a lifelong desire to learn piano, as well as a briefer fascination w/ computerised music-making.
I know a sampler from a sequencer from a synthesizer; I do not know the pros and cons of hardware vs. software vs. plug-in versions - 'cause I haven't used them/know no-one who has. I know that some type of keyboard is desirable; I don't know the pros & cons of $199 MIDI controllers vs. $300 "kitchen sync" keyboards vs. $1000+ dedicated synths - since I've not used any of them/know no-one who's had the experience. I know I want Cubase or Nuendo or Digital Performer or something like that, so I can sequence, mix, edit, record to HD, apply effects, etc, but have no overview that would allow me to weigh the options & make an intelligent choice because I haven't used them & know no-one who has. I know I'll need a microphone or two, and I know about condenders vs. dynamics, but I don't know what's worth having in my price range, or about the pros & cons of phantom power & such, or XLR, SPDIF, etc.
[quote]<strong>I talk to a lot of "aspiring musicians" who are always making excuses why they've "always wanted to make music" but haven't started yet. The people who actually DO make music, didn't wait until they had a complete, professional studio. I recorded my first CD with less than $2000 worth of equipment, and I know many other musicians who have done the same. </strong><hr></blockquote>
And there you have it: I'm perfectly willing to sink $2000 into hardware and software (in addition to the cost of a new Mac), but I can't spend more than that, & so I need to spend it wisely - meaning, no mistakes.
[quote]<strong>To get started, all you really need is A) something to make sounds with, and something to record the sounds. You can start off with a cheap synthesizer (or guitar, or trumpet...) and a cassette recorder. Of course, you'll get better results with a digital recorder, a mixer, and some kind of reverb or effects device, but that doesn't mean you can't start experimenting before you have all that stuff.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So any suggestions / recommendations based on what I've told you? Do I need to tell you more?
You could start out by buying Keyboard magazine, and/or Electronic Musician magazine. You'll pick up a lot of useful info that way, especially since it sounds like you don't have a few specific questions, but are actually starting almost from scratch.
The main thing is that you should not let obsession with gear take precedence over a willingless to play and experiment with the gear you have.
I talk to a lot of "aspiring musicians" who are always making excuses why they've "always wanted to make music" but haven't started yet. The people who actually DO make music, didn't wait until they had a complete, professional studio. I recorded my first CD with less than $2000 worth of equipment, and I know many other musicians who have done the same.
The key is to experiment with the equipment you do have, and don't always think that you need some other piece of gear to get started. To get started, all you really need is A) something to make sounds with, and something to record the sounds. You can start off with a cheap synthesizer (or guitar, or trumpet...) and a cassette recorder. Of course, you'll get better results with a digital recorder, a mixer, and some kind of reverb or effects device, but that doesn't mean you can't start experimenting before you have all that stuff.
I wasn't really responding specifically to you alone, but was trying to talk in general about the issues that I see again and again preventing people from getting started making and recording music.
It's a mistake to think that all your questions must be answered, and that a "perfect" (if minimal) studio must be set up completely, before you can start to experiment.
It's often hard to offer good advice about gear, but it's even harder when you're trying to tell somebody what they ought to use, without knowing what they've tried before, and what they liked or disliked about it.
There are many tools that will allow you to do almost exactly the same thing. The differences between Digital Performer and Cubase are mostly matters of preference, and minor features. It's not like one of them is great and the other one sucks. Nuendo is out of the question if you're just starting out as it's vastly more expensive than the others. In fact, I'd argue that both Digital Performer and Cubase are a bit too complicated for a beginner. I'd recommend starting with something simpler like Cubasis or Micrologic, stripped-down and simplified versions of pro software.
Going back to my last message, often people have the idea that they can't even start to record unless they have the latest high-end tools. You could get started with a Digidesign 001 interface and Pro Tools LE software -- both a hardware interface and a versatile multi-track digital audio recording/editing program for $799. Or you could get a MOTU 828 firewire interface, which comes with MOTU's Audiodesk software (a stripped-down and simplified beginner's version of Digital Performer), for $699.
In other words, trying to compare the differences between pro systems when you haven't even experimented with beginner's tools, will just lead you to frustration. Once you've used some of the more intro-level tools you'll be in a better position to assess what your tools are lacking, and figure out which direction to go.
My first multi-track digital audio interface was the Digidesign Tool Box, which was the Audiomedia III card and Pro Tools LE software. It was fine to get me started but I figured out that I wanted access to more standard plugins (which meant moving away from Pro Tools). I also wanted to be able to input & out put more than 2 channels of audio simultaneously, which meant getting the MOTU interface.
Don't feel that your first purchases must be the perfect tools for you to keep forever. Most likely, the best tool for an expert is terrible for a beginner, and something easy & capable in a beginner's hands is not flexible or powerful enough for an expert. I think it's a mistake to think "Well, I'll just buy something more powerful than I need to start so I can grow into it and use it forever." The learning curve on a setup like Digital Performer or Logic is pretty steep and will frustrate the beginner and prevent them from digging in and just recording music.
You also ask about microphones, about phantom power, and about XLR and SPDIF.
You can't go wrong with a Shure SM58. If you mail order one for $100 and decide you want something better after a year or so, you can sell it used for most of what you paid for it. Most studios have one of those old standards knocking around.
Phantom power just means that whatever your mic is plugged into (a mixer input or a preamp) is able to supply power to the microphone. Condenser mics need either an internal battery or phantom power to run them. Having the mic hooked to an input with phantom power eliminates the need to have a battery in it, because the mic cable is carrying phantom power from the input jack.
XLR is a type of a plug -- speaking of microphones, it's the type that pro microphones have. It's a balanced (three wire) plug type. Many pieces of high-end audio gear have XLR analog inputs and outputs, since a balanced analog signal is preferable (it tends to lessen interference, hum and noise).
Most low-mid range gear uses 1/4" plugs rather than XLR. To make things more confusing, 1/4" plugs/jacks can be either balanced or unbalanced.
SPDIF is a kind of stereo (two channel) digital input/output. It usually uses an RCA-type plug/jack, like the inputs & outputs on the back of your home stereo. It might be used to interconnect a DAT or CDR deck and a mixer, or to interconnect an effects unit with a digital mixer.
Comments
iginally posted by antaisce:
<strong>
Listen, for a start in the audio world an iBook is more than enough. If it is mainly audio you work on, go for Pro Tools Free. If it is more MIDI based, try out Logic Fun (also free) or buy Cubasis 2.0 with lots of things to play around with for about 90 $. Think about an audio box with integrated MIDI interface if needed.</strong>[/QUOTE]
The iBook is more than adequate for a beginner. There are professionals getting by with far less. As for software, Gibson [which bought Opcode] has just released Studio Vision Pro in the public domain. This package was considered one of the best audio and MIDI softwares in the 90s. Of course, it will not work with OS X; but I think 9.2 and below should be fine.
--JBytes
I've been into music all my life, and w/ my planned upgrade (~MWNY - gHz+ iMac / PMG5
Unfortunately, other than a MiniMoog, I've used no electronic music equipment, and I don't know anyone who's interested in music-making, so I have no personal experience to draw on. I don't know how to evaluate/compare/contrast Opcode vs MOTU vs. Steinberg vs. Emagic "workstations", much less soft, hard, & plug-in instruments. I have no idea why TDM vs. VST, and I don't get MIDI at all <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> !
I read magazines, but they're like a lot of computer documentation: laboriously explaining how to use the mouse, and re-phrasing every menu item, then jumping into the minutiae of some strange-sounding procedure without offering a clue why the reader would want to do that. Very frustrating!
Surely, someone must be running a decent computer-music site or forum somewhere, and I want to be there!
Hell, maybe AI would take the initiative & institute a Music & Audio forum!
[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Capt. Obvious ]</p>
<strong>You could start out by buying Keyboard magazine, and/or Electronic Musician magazine. You'll pick up a lot of useful info that way, especially since it sounds like you don't have a few specific questions, but are actually starting almost from scratch.
The main thing is that you should not let obsession with gear take precedence over a willingless to play and experiment with the gear you have.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm going to assume, for no good reason, that you're responding to my post.
I've been reading Electronic Musician off-&-on for years (finally got around to subscribing), as well as Computer Music, Mix, Remix, and occasionally Keyboard.
You're right, I don't have a few specific questions: I have A LOT of specific questions. So many, that it's hard to find a forum for them.
Perhaps I do have 'an obsession with gear': at the moment (and for a long time) now, my gear consists of a 266mHz PBG3, a tambourine, a broken doumbek, and some penny-whistles. I've been a drummer longer than anything, played guitar for many years, sang (briefly) w/ the Atlanta Boys Choir, and later w/ various bands, etc. Was even in "the biz" for a number of years. Been out of all that for 15-20 years.
In planning to upgrade to G4+, decided the new Mac could drive a MIDI keyboard and some music software, and figured I'd fulfill a lifelong desire to learn piano, as well as a briefer fascination w/ computerised music-making.
I know a sampler from a sequencer from a synthesizer; I do not know the pros and cons of hardware vs. software vs. plug-in versions - 'cause I haven't used them/know no-one who has. I know that some type of keyboard is desirable; I don't know the pros & cons of $199 MIDI controllers vs. $300 "kitchen sync" keyboards vs. $1000+ dedicated synths - since I've not used any of them/know no-one who's had the experience. I know I want Cubase or Nuendo or Digital Performer or something like that, so I can sequence, mix, edit, record to HD, apply effects, etc, but have no overview that would allow me to weigh the options & make an intelligent choice because I haven't used them & know no-one who has. I know I'll need a microphone or two, and I know about condenders vs. dynamics, but I don't know what's worth having in my price range, or about the pros & cons of phantom power & such, or XLR, SPDIF, etc.
[quote]<strong>I talk to a lot of "aspiring musicians" who are always making excuses why they've "always wanted to make music" but haven't started yet. The people who actually DO make music, didn't wait until they had a complete, professional studio. I recorded my first CD with less than $2000 worth of equipment, and I know many other musicians who have done the same. </strong><hr></blockquote>
And there you have it: I'm perfectly willing to sink $2000 into hardware and software (in addition to the cost of a new Mac), but I can't spend more than that, & so I need to spend it wisely - meaning, no mistakes.
[quote]<strong>To get started, all you really need is A) something to make sounds with, and
So any suggestions / recommendations based on what I've told you? Do I need to tell you more?
The main thing is that you should not let obsession with gear take precedence over a willingless to play and experiment with the gear you have.
I talk to a lot of "aspiring musicians" who are always making excuses why they've "always wanted to make music" but haven't started yet. The people who actually DO make music, didn't wait until they had a complete, professional studio. I recorded my first CD with less than $2000 worth of equipment, and I know many other musicians who have done the same.
The key is to experiment with the equipment you do have, and don't always think that you need some other piece of gear to get started. To get started, all you really need is A) something to make sounds with, and
I wasn't really responding specifically to you alone, but was trying to talk in general about the issues that I see again and again preventing people from getting started making and recording music.
It's a mistake to think that all your questions must be answered, and that a "perfect" (if minimal) studio must be set up completely, before you can start to experiment.
It's often hard to offer good advice about gear, but it's even harder when you're trying to tell somebody what they ought to use, without knowing what they've tried before, and what they liked or disliked about it.
There are many tools that will allow you to do almost exactly the same thing. The differences between Digital Performer and Cubase are mostly matters of preference, and minor features. It's not like one of them is great and the other one sucks. Nuendo is out of the question if you're just starting out as it's vastly more expensive than the others. In fact, I'd argue that both Digital Performer and Cubase are a bit too complicated for a beginner. I'd recommend starting with something simpler like Cubasis or Micrologic, stripped-down and simplified versions of pro software.
Going back to my last message, often people have the idea that they can't even start to record unless they have the latest high-end tools. You could get started with a Digidesign 001 interface and Pro Tools LE software -- both a hardware interface and a versatile multi-track digital audio recording/editing program for $799. Or you could get a MOTU 828 firewire interface, which comes with MOTU's Audiodesk software (a stripped-down and simplified beginner's version of Digital Performer), for $699.
In other words, trying to compare the differences between pro systems when you haven't even experimented with beginner's tools, will just lead you to frustration. Once you've used some of the more intro-level tools you'll be in a better position to assess what your tools are lacking, and figure out which direction to go.
My first multi-track digital audio interface was the Digidesign Tool Box, which was the Audiomedia III card and Pro Tools LE software. It was fine to get me started but I figured out that I wanted access to more standard plugins (which meant moving away from Pro Tools). I also wanted to be able to input & out put more than 2 channels of audio simultaneously, which meant getting the MOTU interface.
Don't feel that your first purchases must be the perfect tools for you to keep forever. Most likely, the best tool for an expert is terrible for a beginner, and something easy & capable in a beginner's hands is not flexible or powerful enough for an expert. I think it's a mistake to think "Well, I'll just buy something more powerful than I need to start so I can grow into it and use it forever." The learning curve on a setup like Digital Performer or Logic is pretty steep and will frustrate the beginner and prevent them from digging in and just recording music.
You also ask about microphones, about phantom power, and about XLR and SPDIF.
You can't go wrong with a Shure SM58. If you mail order one for $100 and decide you want something better after a year or so, you can sell it used for most of what you paid for it. Most studios have one of those old standards knocking around.
Phantom power just means that whatever your mic is plugged into (a mixer input or a preamp) is able to supply power to the microphone. Condenser mics need either an internal battery or phantom power to run them. Having the mic hooked to an input with phantom power eliminates the need to have a battery in it, because the mic cable is carrying phantom power from the input jack.
XLR is a type of a plug -- speaking of microphones, it's the type that pro microphones have. It's a balanced (three wire) plug type. Many pieces of high-end audio gear have XLR analog inputs and outputs, since a balanced analog signal is preferable (it tends to lessen interference, hum and noise).
Most low-mid range gear uses 1/4" plugs rather than XLR. To make things more confusing, 1/4" plugs/jacks can be either balanced or unbalanced.
SPDIF is a kind of stereo (two channel) digital input/output. It usually uses an RCA-type plug/jack, like the inputs & outputs on the back of your home stereo. It might be used to interconnect a DAT or CDR deck and a mixer, or to interconnect an effects unit with a digital mixer.
Hope some of that helps...