They are planning on losing $100 per unit initially - so they will sell the unit for the price of everything except the blu-ray drive, and throw in Blu-ray for free.
Hundreds of thousands of units in 2006, from the article, is a gross understatement. Try tens of millions.
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player.
And that is extremely sad. I actually got many disks in my shelf that I am not able to play after I moved on Mac and did not find a region-free hack for my iBook's DVD drive.
Personally, I will only buy stuff that I can use now and in the future, locally, portably, over a network or whatever way *I* choose, without fear somebody "revokes my keys" or other such nonsense.
The government does not regulate how companies can use DRM. Unlike Res, I think that's fine. Furthermore, the government should also not regulate how people may modify the equipment and media they own, how people may help other people modify theirs, or the manufacture and sale of equipment for such purposes.
Copyright should probably not apply to anything under DRM, either. The entire purpose of copyright, which is to have more works available to the public in the long term by establishing a short monopoly to the creator, is defeated by DRM. If the material is encrypted and cannot be accessed freely after the copyright expires, then the public is not getting its part of the deal, and there is no reason for copyright to exist for such material in the first place.
The natural state of affairs is that either you keep it secret, or it's public domain.
They are planning on losing $100 per unit initially - so they will sell the unit for the price of everything except the blu-ray drive, and throw in Blu-ray for free.
Hundreds of thousands of units in 2006, from the article, is a gross understatement. Try tens of millions.
Sony wont sell 10's of millions @ $499 each and sony will most likely lose closer to $200 on each hardware unit sold for the first year.
I fell region codes have become irrelevant....almost as the audio cassette has become irrelevant.
Movies are being released in theaters at the same time on a global scale.
region codes, only limit the audience(potential buyer). It's like the execs says "oh we'll sell this to these people and not those". bad business imo. I travel a lot, and one of the thing that deters me from buying DVDs is region codes....(ive hacked my PowerBook's Firmware, but what about my parent's DVD player, etc). They have to be willing to sell to everyone...it's like theyre turning down money due to geography, which makes no sence.
As far as foreign films. i love italian films....and i dont see why there's a problem if i want to import a movie from over there and play it here. the money gets to the IP-holders and the manufactureres, just like it does with any imported goods.
I put up with DVDs cause when i baught into them, i didnt know any better, andt here was no viable alternative. If they try and dupe me again with all this legaleeses BS about region codes, i just wont buy it.
As of right now, i have to order all my GameCube games from Amazon and ship em internationally, which costs me a pretty penny. And i can guarntee that i would have baught a lot more games on that format if i could locally. Region codes are bad business and bad for consumers.
It is a bit of a crappy comparison. It would be more favourable to compare it to the cost of the DVD drive in the PS2 when it was launched.
I expect the PS3 to be priced competitively (especially as MS has dropped the ball with the $399 pricing of the Xbox 360).
Its a fair comparison since M$ will only be spending $25 for a DVD drive on the xbox360 while Sony will be spending $100 for a Blu-Ray drive.
Sure MS and Sony paid around $50-$75 for DVD drives when they launched their systems 4-5 years ago but back then they were both spending the same amount of money.
I think this is bad journalism. Sony knew the cost of components a loooong time ago, this article makes it sound like last week somebody at Sony woke up and went "Oh my god! Bru-Lay dlive cost 100 dollah! Miclosoft win longtime!". I suspect FUD from the HD camp or even MS myself.
Smart boys. If they hit their goal Universal Blue Laser product will be before the curve in consumer buying. I'd buy a Universal unit provided the performance was acceptable.
Absolutely! I new it would come eventually, and that was going to be what I waited for before buying one anyway. Better sooner than later I guess.
It's too bad they just didn't combine the best of both formats, and come up with one evolved format instead. In a way though I take that back. I'm sure there will be price benefits, and technical advantages to having them separated.
. . . It's too bad they just didn't combine the best of both formats, and come up with one evolved format instead. In a way though I take that back. I'm sure there will be price benefits, and technical advantages to having them separated.
Yes, you can't always get the best of both in one product. The advantage of HD-DVD is the ability to press discs on existing equipment. Blu-Ray's technical advantages can be achieved only by abandoning this feature.
I think the giant media machine knows the public better than most of us give them credit for. They have made blunders in the past, but they have accomplished amazing things as well.
As previously stated no previous format has taken off as quickly as DVDs. The general public knows very little of this new format war, and couldn't care less. This upgrade should be invisible to the end user, finally a smart play! This way everything becomes backwards compatible, the freaks who want HD picture and sound get it, and the general public are just excited to have all 9 seasons of Seinfeld on 1 disc.
I am glad that sony included SACD support in the new PS3, with any luck this means that all Blu-Ray will also play SACD, even if it eventually means that SACD turns into Blu-Ray, then so be it. People don't want a format war people just want things to work. Even today people expect all optical discs to play in all players. Most all DVD players now advertise DVD, DVD+R DVD-RW, DVD-R, CD, JPEG CD, VCD, SVCD, MPEG 3, MPEG 4, etc. If they expect to pull this transition off the best thing they can do is slowly make every new DVD player have support for the new format, and slowly release the format, don't make a special section at best buy for Blu-Ray only.
Ideally the first few years would see multi-layer content like on the HYBRID SACDs that play in normal CD players, THAT was the right idea. This eases the transition, much like the apple/intel transition Leopard will be built on universal binary for x86 and PPC....call it infinitely harder, but that is how it should be done.
Smart boys. If they hit their goal Universal Blue Laser product will be before the curve in consumer buying. I'd buy a Universal unit provided the performance was acceptable.
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
Multiple lasers are good. First generation DVD players tried to do it all with a single laser, and they did not play some disks - after a bit they switched to seperate lasers for CD and DVD and things got better.
Most people will not buy a combo unit, most people will buy a PS3. HD-DVD will have such low market share compared to the massive PS3 rollout that there will be no point making HD-DVD movies. Low market share => few movies => even lower market share => even fewer movies.
This game was over as soon as Microsoft decided not to include a HD-DVD drive in the xbox 360.
DVD, DVD+R DVD-RW, DVD-R, CD, JPEG CD, VCD, SVCD, MPEG 3, MPEG 4, etc. If they expect to pull this transition off the best thing they can do is slowly make every new DVD player have support for the new format, and slowly release the format, don't make a special section at best buy for Blu-Ray only.
Thats a damn good idea. if manufacturers took this route, it'll be awesome, and backwards compatibility will not be an issue. Then you can have HD-DVD and BR battle it out on price.
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
There are already lens assemblies from both camps that contain both the red laser and blue laser diodes in one housing. I think it will certainly be costly and I wouldn't expect a Universal player to be affordable until 3-4 generations. I'm interested in seeing what engineers can do.
Quote:
Most people will not buy a combo unit, most people will buy a PS3
Just buying a PS3 doesn't mean you're ready for BD movies. You still need a HDCP DVI or HDMI HDTV. So while the PS3 may sell in the millions I'm guessing that the DVI/HDMI set penetration will only be %40 of PS3 buyers. I'd never discount Microsoft support especially considering MS is pushing Media Centers very hard.
Just buying a PS3 doesn't mean you're ready for BD movies. You still need a HDCP DVI or HDMI HDTV.
The xbox 360 does not have digital video out (DVI, HDMI, etc) - it only supports analog 720p on the component outputs. Hopefully sony will also support this, not only for games but also for Blu-ray movies.
As long as you can get an analog progressive component 720p signal out of the box, that is good enough for any current analog HDTV up to 60" or so, and if you include a line quadrupler it is good enough for 120"+.
I am planning the following
PS3/xbox360 -> DVDO iScan vp30 -> analog crt projector for video and outlaw/ati setup for audio.
It should be a lot better than my current (ps2/quadscan) setup - good enough that I will probably never have to upgrade again.
good enough that I will probably never have to upgrade again.
Ha, I say never be complete! I am always telling myself, just one more piece of gear is all I need...it's an addiction, yes, but it's because there is always a bottleneck somewhere. I am also not content unless I can hook everything in my house up to everything else, I want a centralized patchbay in which all inputs and outputs are located....can you imagine it? To be able to patch DVDs, SACDs, Cable TV, Satellite TV, VCR, etc, the video and audio outs all separate...
Output of the computer to the input of the TV
Output of the SACD player to the power-amp
Output of the DVD player to the projector (to sync up Dark side with Wizard of oz)
The list of possibilities are endless...I won't be happy till I find a way to patch the output of the toaster oven into the input of my receiver...I mean what home theater setup is complete without a toaster input right?
Comments
Originally posted by johnsocal
It appears the the Blu-Ray drive alone will cost Sony a $100 in the PS3- http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25901
They are planning on losing $100 per unit initially - so they will sell the unit for the price of everything except the blu-ray drive, and throw in Blu-ray for free.
Hundreds of thousands of units in 2006, from the article, is a gross understatement. Try tens of millions.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player.
And that is extremely sad. I actually got many disks in my shelf that I am not able to play after I moved on Mac and did not find a region-free hack for my iBook's DVD drive.
Personally, I will only buy stuff that I can use now and in the future, locally, portably, over a network or whatever way *I* choose, without fear somebody "revokes my keys" or other such nonsense.
The government does not regulate how companies can use DRM. Unlike Res, I think that's fine. Furthermore, the government should also not regulate how people may modify the equipment and media they own, how people may help other people modify theirs, or the manufacture and sale of equipment for such purposes.
Copyright should probably not apply to anything under DRM, either. The entire purpose of copyright, which is to have more works available to the public in the long term by establishing a short monopoly to the creator, is defeated by DRM. If the material is encrypted and cannot be accessed freely after the copyright expires, then the public is not getting its part of the deal, and there is no reason for copyright to exist for such material in the first place.
The natural state of affairs is that either you keep it secret, or it's public domain.
Originally posted by e1618978
They are planning on losing $100 per unit initially - so they will sell the unit for the price of everything except the blu-ray drive, and throw in Blu-ray for free.
Hundreds of thousands of units in 2006, from the article, is a gross understatement. Try tens of millions.
Sony wont sell 10's of millions @ $499 each and sony will most likely lose closer to $200 on each hardware unit sold for the first year.
Originally posted by johnsocal
It appears the the Blu-Ray drive alone will cost Sony a $100 in the PS3- http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25901
It is a bit of a crappy comparison. It would be more favourable to compare it to the cost of the DVD drive in the PS2 when it was launched.
I expect the PS3 to be priced competitively (especially as MS has dropped the ball with the $399 pricing of the Xbox 360).
Movies are being released in theaters at the same time on a global scale.
region codes, only limit the audience(potential buyer). It's like the execs says "oh we'll sell this to these people and not those". bad business imo. I travel a lot, and one of the thing that deters me from buying DVDs is region codes....(ive hacked my PowerBook's Firmware, but what about my parent's DVD player, etc). They have to be willing to sell to everyone...it's like theyre turning down money due to geography, which makes no sence.
As far as foreign films. i love italian films....and i dont see why there's a problem if i want to import a movie from over there and play it here. the money gets to the IP-holders and the manufactureres, just like it does with any imported goods.
I put up with DVDs cause when i baught into them, i didnt know any better, andt here was no viable alternative. If they try and dupe me again with all this legaleeses BS about region codes, i just wont buy it.
As of right now, i have to order all my GameCube games from Amazon and ship em internationally, which costs me a pretty penny. And i can guarntee that i would have baught a lot more games on that format if i could locally. Region codes are bad business and bad for consumers.
*end rant*
Cheers
Originally posted by DaveLee
It is a bit of a crappy comparison. It would be more favourable to compare it to the cost of the DVD drive in the PS2 when it was launched.
I expect the PS3 to be priced competitively (especially as MS has dropped the ball with the $399 pricing of the Xbox 360).
Its a fair comparison since M$ will only be spending $25 for a DVD drive on the xbox360 while Sony will be spending $100 for a Blu-Ray drive.
Sure MS and Sony paid around $50-$75 for DVD drives when they launched their systems 4-5 years ago but back then they were both spending the same amount of money.
Smart boys. If they hit their goal Universal Blue Laser product will be before the curve in consumer buying. I'd buy a Universal unit provided the performance was acceptable.
It's too bad they just didn't combine the best of both formats, and come up with one evolved format instead. In a way though I take that back. I'm sure there will be price benefits, and technical advantages to having them separated.
Originally posted by onlooker
. . . It's too bad they just didn't combine the best of both formats, and come up with one evolved format instead. In a way though I take that back. I'm sure there will be price benefits, and technical advantages to having them separated.
Yes, you can't always get the best of both in one product. The advantage of HD-DVD is the ability to press discs on existing equipment. Blu-Ray's technical advantages can be achieved only by abandoning this feature.
As previously stated no previous format has taken off as quickly as DVDs. The general public knows very little of this new format war, and couldn't care less. This upgrade should be invisible to the end user, finally a smart play! This way everything becomes backwards compatible, the freaks who want HD picture and sound get it, and the general public are just excited to have all 9 seasons of Seinfeld on 1 disc.
I am glad that sony included SACD support in the new PS3, with any luck this means that all Blu-Ray will also play SACD, even if it eventually means that SACD turns into Blu-Ray, then so be it. People don't want a format war people just want things to work. Even today people expect all optical discs to play in all players. Most all DVD players now advertise DVD, DVD+R DVD-RW, DVD-R, CD, JPEG CD, VCD, SVCD, MPEG 3, MPEG 4, etc. If they expect to pull this transition off the best thing they can do is slowly make every new DVD player have support for the new format, and slowly release the format, don't make a special section at best buy for Blu-Ray only.
Ideally the first few years would see multi-layer content like on the HYBRID SACDs that play in normal CD players, THAT was the right idea. This eases the transition, much like the apple/intel transition Leopard will be built on universal binary for x86 and PPC....call it infinitely harder, but that is how it should be done.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Samsung to create Universal HD-DVD Blu-Ray player
Smart boys. If they hit their goal Universal Blue Laser product will be before the curve in consumer buying. I'd buy a Universal unit provided the performance was acceptable.
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
Originally posted by Telomar
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
Multiple lasers are good. First generation DVD players tried to do it all with a single laser, and they did not play some disks - after a bit they switched to seperate lasers for CD and DVD and things got better.
Most people will not buy a combo unit, most people will buy a PS3. HD-DVD will have such low market share compared to the massive PS3 rollout that there will be no point making HD-DVD movies. Low market share => few movies => even lower market share => even fewer movies.
This game was over as soon as Microsoft decided not to include a HD-DVD drive in the xbox 360.
Originally posted by Gm7Cadd9
DVD, DVD+R DVD-RW, DVD-R, CD, JPEG CD, VCD, SVCD, MPEG 3, MPEG 4, etc. If they expect to pull this transition off the best thing they can do is slowly make every new DVD player have support for the new format, and slowly release the format, don't make a special section at best buy for Blu-Ray only.
Thats a damn good idea. if manufacturers took this route, it'll be awesome, and backwards compatibility will not be an issue. Then you can have HD-DVD and BR battle it out on price.
Originally posted by Telomar
Problem is it will have 3 separate laser elements, one for HD-DVD, one for BR and one red, so you can expect that it'll be rather costly compared to single options. Also it'll always be a trade-off while with DVD+ and DVD- you could always read both with only a single element. Maybe universal players will take off but it is really just a glorified combo unit in this case and not a universal player.
There are already lens assemblies from both camps that contain both the red laser and blue laser diodes in one housing. I think it will certainly be costly and I wouldn't expect a Universal player to be affordable until 3-4 generations. I'm interested in seeing what engineers can do.
Most people will not buy a combo unit, most people will buy a PS3
Just buying a PS3 doesn't mean you're ready for BD movies. You still need a HDCP DVI or HDMI HDTV. So while the PS3 may sell in the millions I'm guessing that the DVI/HDMI set penetration will only be %40 of PS3 buyers. I'd never discount Microsoft support especially considering MS is pushing Media Centers very hard.
This war should be intriguing to watch.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Just buying a PS3 doesn't mean you're ready for BD movies. You still need a HDCP DVI or HDMI HDTV.
The xbox 360 does not have digital video out (DVI, HDMI, etc) - it only supports analog 720p on the component outputs. Hopefully sony will also support this, not only for games but also for Blu-ray movies.
As long as you can get an analog progressive component 720p signal out of the box, that is good enough for any current analog HDTV up to 60" or so, and if you include a line quadrupler it is good enough for 120"+.
I am planning the following
PS3/xbox360 -> DVDO iScan vp30 -> analog crt projector for video and outlaw/ati setup for audio.
It should be a lot better than my current (ps2/quadscan) setup - good enough that I will probably never have to upgrade again.
Originally posted by e1618978
good enough that I will probably never have to upgrade again.
Ha, I say never be complete! I am always telling myself, just one more piece of gear is all I need...it's an addiction, yes, but it's because there is always a bottleneck somewhere. I am also not content unless I can hook everything in my house up to everything else, I want a centralized patchbay in which all inputs and outputs are located....can you imagine it? To be able to patch DVDs, SACDs, Cable TV, Satellite TV, VCR, etc, the video and audio outs all separate...
Output of the computer to the input of the TV
Output of the SACD player to the power-amp
Output of the DVD player to the projector (to sync up Dark side with Wizard of oz)
The list of possibilities are endless...I won't be happy till I find a way to patch the output of the toaster oven into the input of my receiver...I mean what home theater setup is complete without a toaster input right?
Link
Originally posted by 1984
Engadget has a good article up comparing the technical and commercial aspects of Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD.
Link
Good article. Here is another regarding IFA's Electronics show:
http://www.blu-ray.com/ifa2005/