Hibernating a Mac
First of all, let me say that this could be a hardware question for all i know but i think it is software. Sorry if it is in the wrong forum.
Anyway, on all of my windows computers, they have a really cool feature called hibernate. What it does is it writes all of the ram to the HD so it can start in the same place as before.
It is like sleeping (which windows also can do) but it doesn't use any power. It takes longer to come up than coming out of sleep (or standby by windows terms) but faster than booting up and you are back at the same place.
Does anybody know if it is possible to do with a mac? If i am wrong and it is a hardware thing, will macs do it after they are mactels?
Thanks!
Anyway, on all of my windows computers, they have a really cool feature called hibernate. What it does is it writes all of the ram to the HD so it can start in the same place as before.
It is like sleeping (which windows also can do) but it doesn't use any power. It takes longer to come up than coming out of sleep (or standby by windows terms) but faster than booting up and you are back at the same place.
Does anybody know if it is possible to do with a mac? If i am wrong and it is a hardware thing, will macs do it after they are mactels?
Thanks!
Comments
In the future this might be worked on again, but I don't think that the transition to Intel would have much to do with it.
I was watching a friend (IT muckity-muck at UNC) Hibernate her laptop, and I asked why go through the bother, instead of just Sleeping? She said it was to keep the battery from draining before the next morning.
My jaw dropped.
Sleep on my PowerBook eats about 2-3% of the battery a *DAY*. You can let a PowerBook sleep for a *month*, at that rate, before it becomes a problem.
I figured there had to be something wrong with her machine, and started asking other Windows laptop users. They all pretty much had the same story: Sleep is okay for moving to or from campus, but they generally use Hibernate for overnight or for more than about 6 hours. Many of them just shut down completely.
So... from what I've seen, Windows' Sleep is still pretty power-hungry, so Hibernate was added to give users a *reasonable* option. PowerBooks? Not a problem, and the instant-wake of Sleep is great.
Hibernate's a neat idea, but I think it would be a rarely used item on the Mac, while it's a critical band-aid to the crappy Sleep under Windows.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Sleep on my PowerBook eats about 2-3% of the battery a *DAY*. You can let a PowerBook sleep for a *month*, at that rate, before it becomes a problem.
What kind of Powerbook is that? Lombard or Pismo running MacOS 9?
Seriously, Mac OS X drains the battery much more quickly than OS 9 on the same machine, while on sleep mode. My Powerbook loses about 1% every hour when I put it to sleep. So after 24h, you are at 75%. Many other Powerbook users have confirmed in the past this behavior. So it's not only me.
I am really impressed by your 3% per day report. i just cannot believe it.
Originally posted by PB
What kind of Powerbook is that? Lombard or Pismo running MacOS 9?
Seriously, Mac OS X drains the battery much more quickly than OS 9 on the same machine, while on sleep mode. My Powerbook loses about 1% every hour when I put it to sleep. So after 24h, you are at 75%. Many other Powerbook users have confirmed in the past this behavior. So it's not only me.
I am really impressed by your 3% per day report. i just cannot believe it.
I believe that certain 3rd party RAM can suck more juice when asleep than Apple RAM. See my thread called "RAM expansion modules that exceed the limit on sleep current must include a warning"
--B
Originally posted by PB
What kind of Powerbook is that? Lombard or Pismo running MacOS 9?
Seriously, Mac OS X drains the battery much more quickly than OS 9 on the same machine, while on sleep mode. My Powerbook loses about 1% every hour when I put it to sleep. So after 24h, you are at 75%. Many other Powerbook users have confirmed in the past this behavior. So it's not only me.
I am really impressed by your 3% per day report. i just cannot believe it.
S'okay.
In any case, it's *STILL* going to be a viable approach for a day or two, when a Windows machine simply isn't. Hence why Hibernate is *necessary* on Windows.
Like I said above, I think it's a neat idea, and one I might use once a year or so, but not anything *required* as far as I can see. Because the necessity is low, I'm not surprised Apple hasn't put the resources into it.
I'd be happier if there were a per-app solution for this. You quit the app, but on next launch, it puts everything back the way you had it. That way you could 'freeze' a workflow *without* hibernating, and come back to it later. I'd use that a *heck* of a lot more.
AND... hibernate then simply becomes a 'freeze all apps' script at shutdown, and a temporary addition to Startup Items of those same apps for a one-shot.
(Yes, I realize that that isn't the same at the OS level, but for the user, it's basically indistinguishable.)
Originally posted by bergz
I believe that certain 3rd party RAM can suck more juice when asleep than Apple RAM. See my thread called "RAM expansion modules that exceed the limit on sleep current must include a warning"
Perhaps, but my Powerbook has only factory installed RAM and zero third party hardware add-ons.
Originally posted by Kickaha
In any case, it's *STILL* going to be a viable approach for a day or two, when a Windows machine simply isn't. Hence why Hibernate is *necessary* on Windows.
OK, this explains why my wife's Dell hibernates automatically when left one night asleep on battery.
I'd be happier if there were a per-app solution for this. You quit the app, but on next launch, it puts everything back the way you had it. That way you could 'freeze' a workflow *without* hibernating, and come back to it later. I'd use that a *heck* of a lot more.
If I am not mistaken, Opera and Omniweb can do that, or something like that. But I am not aware of any other application with this capability.
Hibernate IMO is up there with defragmentation tools as a 'Windows has it because it's a band-aid to a problem the Mac simply doesn't have' item. Some people will think it's a failing of the Mac, when it's really a problem in Windows that they're trying to provide a fix for, and just kludging it up.
I hate retsarting my computer unless i have to so hibernate would be good for me when switching batteries w/o a power adapter.
Not the case any more, I take it?
Originally posted by Kickaha
You know, I haven't had to swap a battery in *years*, but waaaaaay back when the laptops had an internal battery that gave you a few second of swap time. You'd put it to sleep, swap the battery, and wake it up, and be right back where you started.
Not the case any more, I take it?
I think the 15" and 17" powerbook support this...not 100% sure though.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You know, I haven't had to swap a battery in *years*, but waaaaaay back when the laptops had an internal battery that gave you a few second of swap time. You'd put it to sleep, swap the battery, and wake it up, and be right back where you started.
Not the case any more, I take it?
I do not think my 12" has this becuase if i put it to sleep and take out my battery, it instantly shuts off.
My 12" powerbook eats 1-2% battery every 4-5 hours in sleep. I never turn off my computer, just put it to sleep. I added a 512mb stick of PNY ram into it when I first got my laptop.
Airport Security - I just don't like my laptop going through the scanners while even part of it is running
Battery almost dead from using it for many hours - not near a power outlet, so I hibernate so when I do get to one I can just charge and bring it up.
So yeah, I think it would be very useful!
I love opening the lid and instantly able to begin work. Takes about 5 seconds or less to recognize the network. On the plane, the PC owner seems to always ask me how that works. The Dell laptop I have rarely works correctly in sleep or hibernate. And it always seems to lose the connection.
Sleep mode works fantastically well. Hibernate just makes no sense. It is a confusing option to most nearly everyone. If you need long term storage and battery savings, just remove the battery or turn it off and get on with it. Takes about 2 seconds to put the battery back in. Tiger starts up and is ready to go in about 20 seconds from a dead start.
Originally posted by kcmac
I go through Airports about 2 days every week. Always have my PB in the sleep mode. I have done this for years. No problems ever.
I love opening the lid and instantly able to begin work. Takes about 5 seconds or less to recognize the network. On the plane, the PC owner seems to always ask me how that works. The Dell laptop I have rarely works correctly in sleep or hibernate. And it always seems to lose the connection.
Sleep mode works fantastically well. Hibernate just makes no sense. It is a confusing option to most nearly everyone. If you need long term storage and battery savings, just remove the battery or turn it off and get on with it. Takes about 2 seconds to put the battery back in. Tiger starts up and is ready to go in about 20 seconds from a dead start.
I'm glad. I use sleep as well as much as I can. I use a Dell laptop and a PowerBook. Neither ever has problems coming out of sleep and the Dell never has a problem coming out of hibernation. I take that back - my PowerBook has hard crashed on my coming out of sleep and my Dell has gotten stuck coming out of hibernation a couple times.
The point is that yes Sleep mode works fantastically well but there are times that Hibernation is extremely useful. I don't trust those airport scanners and its just a matter of that. I even go to the length of removing my hard drive from the laptop before it goes in because I just do not want to take the chance. You can be as risky as you want, but if you don't understand that others like to do things differently and having the option to support that is a "good" thing, then you're being quite selfish.
And startup time is great. My Dell loads up in 15 seconds and my Powerbook in 45. But the fact is I have to quit my apps. Close my docs. Save what I was working on and then re-create that environment when I boot back up.
I reboot once about every month, unless I have to run an Apple security update or MS update - and even then I run for as long as I can until I get to the point I can save and quit and reboot.
So get off your high horse and understand that there are uses for Hibernation, that its no replacement for sleep but is a great auxillary and a great option for when the need comes. Just because you haven't found the need doesn't mean others don't and just because you have no need for it doesn't mean that the option should not exist.
Originally posted by Akac
I even go to the length of removing my hard drive from the laptop before it goes in because I just do not want to take the chance. You can be as risky as you want, but if you don't understand that others like to do things differently and having the option to support that is a "good" thing, then you're being quite selfish.
No offense, Akac, but you've got straight into tin-foil hat land there IMO.
You *remove* the hard drive? You do realize that the act of removing it and replacing it is putting more wear and tear on it than the scanner ever could, right? You're generating more risk than you could ever incur from the scanner! Do you use a grounded static strap for both removal and insertion? Do you store it in a static-bag in between? If no to either of those, you could fry it irrevocably by just scooting your chair across the floor while handling it.
X-rays at those levels cannot damage electronics. They certainly cannot damage magnetic media. The early (EARLY) reports of problems came from the magnets used in the conveyor belt... which are now verboten. Scanners are safe for your electronics.