It's cheaper, but unlike in gaming if your using it for 3D apps you very well may need the extra Memory per card. Although if you are using SLI for 3D you would probably be going with a quadro anyway. But if you soft quadro (which isn't possible on the mac yet - neither is quadro, or SLI for that matter) the memory would be your big bonus. I don't think games can address that much of it yet.
"The 975X will come with a built-in PCIe x16 interface, which will allow motherboard makers to design boards with dual PCIe x8 slots to support dual-graphics technology, the sources noted."
-only dual x8 SLI/crossfire as macronin said
"The 975X will come with a 65nm version of the dual-core Pentium Extreme Edition 955 processor, which supports 1066MHz FSB speeds and 2x2MB of L2 cache (4MB of L2 cache per central processing unit in total), according to the sources."
-that is a nice bus speed and some fat (phat) cache.
but dual-core with hyperthreading Intel pentium is going to be (a)expensive (b)quite hot
[EDIT] = BTW, this is also dual core ready. 2x dual core processors.
Quote:
Answering the call for more power to meet the demands of customer applications, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) delivers new heights of performance never before available in the workstation market. Based on the NVIDIA nForce? Professional 2200 and 2050 core-logic solutions, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) also features support for dual AMD Opteron? 200 series processors with 32-bit and 64-bit power, Dual PCI Express x16 slots with FULL SPEED x16 lanes on each slot to support NVIDIA SLI? technology at unprecedented speeds. Other features such as USB 2.0, FireWire, Serial ATA-II with NVRAID?, audio, and NVIDIA nTune? support, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) provides speed and capabilities for next generation worksation systems.
... Isn't the Athlon only suited, and made for single processor boards?
i think you're correct! i'm new to this whole AMD thing. only got my first *ever* AMD two months ago. i only used to own intels back in the day, then macs for the past 5 years. now i'm back to messing around with different stuff.
are they planning to have dualcore opterons? i saw the intel dev forum keynote webcast so i'm familiar with their roadmap, hmm i'm gonna check out the AMD roadmap...
MUNICH, GERMANY -- August 30, 2005 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that Fujitsu Siemens Computers, a leading European IT provider, is offering a new series of workstations based on the AMD Opteron? processor. The CELSIUS V830 supports the Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor Models 275, 270 and 265, which offer the best overall performance and performance-per-watt available in the market1.
This 64-bit workstation is expected to bring leading-edge calculation and graphics performance to users operating in compute-intensive and memory-demanding environments, including engineering, digital content creation, visualization, virtual reality and scientific computing.
?AMD and Fujitsu Siemens Computers have worked closely together to design a powerful and energy-saving platform leveraging AMD?s technology leadership in dual-core processing to address the specific requirements of the professional user,? said Alberto Macchi, vice president of sales, AMD EMEA. ?The Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor with Direct Connect Architecture provides the computing capacity to support the growing number of applications typically required by this market segment. Additionally, AMD64 technology protects companies? software investments by enabling a seamless migration from 32-bit to 64-bit and single- to dual-core computing as business needs evolve.?
AMD64 technology, the gold standard for 64-bit computing, is designed to deliver the higher performance of a multi-core processor in the same power envelope and the same infrastructure as a single-core AMD64 processor. For workstation customers, this means the Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor provides the best performance-per-watt ratio in the industry1.
The CELSIUS V series offers system performance up to 32 GB DDR SDRAM. The CELSIUS V830 from Fujitsu Siemens Computers consists of a RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) compliant base unit and a significantly improved housing and thermal management system over prior Fujitsu Siemens Computers workstations. According to information provided by Fujitsu Siemens Computers, this leads to a noise-level reduction of approximately 50 percent over competitive systems. "
now where's the quad (dual cpu dualcore) opterons with 4GPU SLI full 4x 16xpci express it just never bloody ends does it?
okay here ya go: intel pentium D dual core with full 2 x 16x nvidia 7800 gtx SLI. from our friends at dell. i wonder what mobo they are using, anyone know?
somewhat less expensive than a tyan-board-based system if i am not wrong. here's a paragraph that references the Opteron stuff. so, i would like to say, hats off to you folk that have been talking about dual-opterons and dualcore opterons all along. i hope that opterons get more marketshare and glamour, particularly now that sun is offering them in their server lines to go up against dell? hmm...
"If this looks vaguely familiar, it should. It's pretty much the same layout as used in AMD Opteron?based workstations using Nvidia's Nforce4 Professional core logic. The CK804 chip, which is actually being used as a southbridge (or I/O controller hub, if you prefer), is actually the same chip as the Nforce4 Professional 2050. The Nforce4 SLI for Intel chip (labeled C19 in the diagram) is connected to the CK804 chip via a HyperTransport link. So this system is really a workstation in disguise. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that the workstation stuff is moving down into the high end of the consumer segment.
The net result is a total of 40 PCI Express lanes. Of the 40, 32 are used for the two graphics card slots, leaving eight for other purposes, such as networking or expansion slots. One of the PCIe x16 slots hands off the MCP while the other one hangs off the "southbridge". The HyperTransport link, plus Nvidia's SLI link card offers enough bandwidth to enable the two graphics card to communicate with each other.
While Dell is first out the chute, Nforce4 SLI X16 will be supporting AMD processors as well as Intel, so AMD enthusiasts won't be left out in the cold. That also means that prices for the older motherboards?let's call them "Nforce4 SLI X8" for clarity's sake?will be dropping a bit. Now buyers will have a full range of SLI solutions available. An upcoming driver release will even enable SLI for mainstream GeForce 6600 cards that don't have the small SLI connector on the top of the card. Instead, data transfers will be handled exclusively over PCI Express. Given lesser capabilities and bandwidth of the 6600, this shouldn't be an issue. "
oh, btw, those dell cases are completely retarded. have y'all tried flipping open the front panel, it doesn't open completely, and you have to stick your usb drive up into the usb drive at a very weird and akward angle... maybe it has been fixed on the later revs, but at my school lab the other day, bloody tragic it was
here's the heatsink for the pentium D mmm... chunky and not copper-only \
okay i will stop my dell bashing now. they've got a good 7800gtx solution that reduces noise from the two 7800s
I think that is because of Apple needs to use a better understanding between OpenGL, and the OS. I think there will be some big changes in the future with Intel Macs, and graphics which will lead to a new way that the OS has it's OGL structured for gaming, and app specific graphics, but it seems the OS has it's OGL built deep within to compliment the OS's features it self, which is great, but they need both to satisfy the end user sufficiently, and completely.
I'm sorry I saw this thread so late into it it.
Apple's implementation of Open GL is oriented towards pro apps such as CAD/CAM and not gaming.
That is one of the reasons the dual 2.7 machine with a 6800 card performs so poorly against the same setup on a PC. This has been talked to death already on several other sites shortly after Doom 3 came out for the Mac.
Despite what a poster or two said much earlier on this thread (I try to read all posts first) a 9800 board is almost obsolete today. I hate to even think about the 9600 lines.
A 6800 board will shatter a 9800, an 800 will as well. The 7800 far exceeds the 6800 and 800's as do the new 1800's due out shortly.
Make no mistake about it, neither SLI or Crossfire, even if available on the Mac now, would make more than a little improvement in most gaming situations. Unless Apple decides, or even realizes that its Open GL implementation needs to be adjusted none of these solutions will matter.
Is it important to get 32 up to 34fps for double the cost, because that's about all one can expect. Due to the implementation, it's the cpu that limits the performance as much as, or more than, the GPU.
The other point here about the two ways that dual boards are being done is that Nvidia had plenty of time to come up with their scheme. ATI reacted hurriedly. The ATI solution while it has some dubious advantages, has well known problems because of that rush.
By the time Apple MIGHT be in a position to use dual Video cards, ATI at least, will have a much better system in place.
And if Apple solves its GL problems in time for the x86 Powermac launch, remember that Apple likes to do things itself, in its own way. We might see an Apple built-in solution - if they are interested.
It's cheaper, but unlike in gaming if your using it for 3D apps you very well may need the extra Memory per card. Although if you are using SLI for 3D you would probably be going with a quadro anyway. But if you soft quadro (which isn't possible on the mac yet - neither is quadro, or SLI for that matter) the memory would be your big bonus. I don't think games can address that much of it yet.
Here's the other problem I wanted to discuss. ALL gaming boards work poorly in a pro 3D app. No exceptions. They simply aren't designed for that purpose.
I would much rather have one $800 pro graphics board than two $500 gaming boards. Unfortunatly Apple hasn't seen fit to encourage the companies to produce one for them.
This is unfortunate because many companies doing pro 3D work, as well as the software companies producing the software have complained LOUDLY about this lack.
One medium level pro graphics board can significantly out perform any dual gaming card configuration. Easily.
Here's the other problem I wanted to discuss. ALL gaming boards work poorly in a pro 3D app. No exceptions. They simply aren't designed for that purpose.
I would much rather have one $800 pro graphics board than two $500 gaming boards. Unfortunatly Apple hasn't seen fit to encourage the companies to produce one for them.
This is unfortunate because many companies doing pro 3D work, as well as the software companies producing the software have complained LOUDLY about this lack.
One medium level pro graphics board can significantly out perform any dual gaming card configuration. Easily.
And I would rather have Two (2) pro-level OpenGL cards in SLI/CrossFire configuration than anything else...
We (that's the royal We) don't care about gaming...
Comments
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...2005/9/13/1215
But this is the dual 8x channel mode...
What we want from Apple is the Delux-o SLI v2.1 dual 16x channel mode...!
;^p
"The 975X will come with a built-in PCIe x16 interface, which will allow motherboard makers to design boards with dual PCIe x8 slots to support dual-graphics technology, the sources noted."
-only dual x8 SLI/crossfire as macronin said
"The 975X will come with a 65nm version of the dual-core Pentium Extreme Edition 955 processor, which supports 1066MHz FSB speeds and 2x2MB of L2 cache (4MB of L2 cache per central processing unit in total), according to the sources."
-that is a nice bus speed and some fat (phat) cache.
but dual-core with hyperthreading Intel pentium is going to be (a)expensive (b)quite hot
Dual PCI Express x16 slots with FULL SPEED x16 lanes on each slot to support NVIDIA SLI? technology at unprecedented speeds.
[EDIT] = BTW, this is also dual core ready. 2x dual core processors.
Answering the call for more power to meet the demands of customer applications, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) delivers new heights of performance never before available in the workstation market. Based on the NVIDIA nForce? Professional 2200 and 2050 core-logic solutions, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) also features support for dual AMD Opteron? 200 series processors with 32-bit and 64-bit power, Dual PCI Express x16 slots with FULL SPEED x16 lanes on each slot to support NVIDIA SLI? technology at unprecedented speeds. Other features such as USB 2.0, FireWire, Serial ATA-II with NVRAID?, audio, and NVIDIA nTune? support, the Thunder K8WE (S2895) provides speed and capabilities for next generation worksation systems.
edit2: i'm waiting for an nForce-4 quad cpu board (dual athlonx2) with dual-pciexpress16x
edit3: what i would do with it i have no idea unless of course mac os x can run on it
Originally posted by sunilraman
edit: is that board very expensive? hmm i'll check out the link, thanks.
edit2: i'm waiting for an nForce-4 quad cpu board (dual athlonx2) with dual-pciexpress16x
edit3: what i would do with it i have no idea unless of course mac os x can run on it
I didn't think there was dual Athlon board. Isn't the Athlon only suited, and made for single processor boards?
Originally posted by onlooker
... Isn't the Athlon only suited, and made for single processor boards?
i think you're correct! i'm new to this whole AMD thing. only got my first *ever* AMD two months ago. i only used to own intels back in the day, then macs for the past 5 years. now i'm back to messing around with different stuff.
are they planning to have dualcore opterons? i saw the intel dev forum keynote webcast so i'm familiar with their roadmap, hmm i'm gonna check out the AMD roadmap...
"Dual-Core AMD Opteron? Processors Power New Workstation Series From Fujitsu Siemens Computers
?Fujitsu Siemens Computers unveils quiet, green-friendly dual-processor workstation ? CELSIUS V830 workstation with AMD64 technology?
MUNICH, GERMANY -- August 30, 2005 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that Fujitsu Siemens Computers, a leading European IT provider, is offering a new series of workstations based on the AMD Opteron? processor. The CELSIUS V830 supports the Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor Models 275, 270 and 265, which offer the best overall performance and performance-per-watt available in the market1.
This 64-bit workstation is expected to bring leading-edge calculation and graphics performance to users operating in compute-intensive and memory-demanding environments, including engineering, digital content creation, visualization, virtual reality and scientific computing.
?AMD and Fujitsu Siemens Computers have worked closely together to design a powerful and energy-saving platform leveraging AMD?s technology leadership in dual-core processing to address the specific requirements of the professional user,? said Alberto Macchi, vice president of sales, AMD EMEA. ?The Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor with Direct Connect Architecture provides the computing capacity to support the growing number of applications typically required by this market segment. Additionally, AMD64 technology protects companies? software investments by enabling a seamless migration from 32-bit to 64-bit and single- to dual-core computing as business needs evolve.?
AMD64 technology, the gold standard for 64-bit computing, is designed to deliver the higher performance of a multi-core processor in the same power envelope and the same infrastructure as a single-core AMD64 processor. For workstation customers, this means the Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor provides the best performance-per-watt ratio in the industry1.
The CELSIUS V series offers system performance up to 32 GB DDR SDRAM. The CELSIUS V830 from Fujitsu Siemens Computers consists of a RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) compliant base unit and a significantly improved housing and thermal management system over prior Fujitsu Siemens Computers workstations. According to information provided by Fujitsu Siemens Computers, this leads to a noise-level reduction of approximately 50 percent over competitive systems. "
now where's the quad (dual cpu dualcore) opterons
Runs perfect.
What was the rationale for the whole SLI deal again?
What was the rationale for the whole SLI deal again?
It's like having sex with two somewhat hot twins instead of one really hot person.
Or, in the case of SLI'd 2x7800gtx, having sex with two really hot twins.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_xps_x16.html
review is here:
http://extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1845014,00.asp
somewhat less expensive than a tyan-board-based system if i am not wrong. here's a paragraph that references the Opteron stuff. so, i would like to say, hats off to you folk that have been talking about dual-opterons and dualcore opterons all along. i hope that opterons get more marketshare and glamour, particularly now that sun is offering them in their server lines to go up against dell? hmm...
"If this looks vaguely familiar, it should. It's pretty much the same layout as used in AMD Opteron?based workstations using Nvidia's Nforce4 Professional core logic. The CK804 chip, which is actually being used as a southbridge (or I/O controller hub, if you prefer), is actually the same chip as the Nforce4 Professional 2050. The Nforce4 SLI for Intel chip (labeled C19 in the diagram) is connected to the CK804 chip via a HyperTransport link. So this system is really a workstation in disguise. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that the workstation stuff is moving down into the high end of the consumer segment.
The net result is a total of 40 PCI Express lanes. Of the 40, 32 are used for the two graphics card slots, leaving eight for other purposes, such as networking or expansion slots. One of the PCIe x16 slots hands off the MCP while the other one hangs off the "southbridge". The HyperTransport link, plus Nvidia's SLI link card offers enough bandwidth to enable the two graphics card to communicate with each other.
While Dell is first out the chute, Nforce4 SLI X16 will be supporting AMD processors as well as Intel, so AMD enthusiasts won't be left out in the cold. That also means that prices for the older motherboards?let's call them "Nforce4 SLI X8" for clarity's sake?will be dropping a bit. Now buyers will have a full range of SLI solutions available. An upcoming driver release will even enable SLI for mainstream GeForce 6600 cards that don't have the small SLI connector on the top of the card. Instead, data transfers will be handled exclusively over PCI Express. Given lesser capabilities and bandwidth of the 6600, this shouldn't be an issue. "
here's the heatsink for the pentium D mmm... chunky and not copper-only
okay i will stop my dell bashing now. they've got a good 7800gtx solution that reduces noise from the two 7800s
Originally posted by onlooker
I think that is because of Apple needs to use a better understanding between OpenGL, and the OS. I think there will be some big changes in the future with Intel Macs, and graphics which will lead to a new way that the OS has it's OGL structured for gaming, and app specific graphics, but it seems the OS has it's OGL built deep within to compliment the OS's features it self, which is great, but they need both to satisfy the end user sufficiently, and completely.
I'm sorry I saw this thread so late into it it.
Apple's implementation of Open GL is oriented towards pro apps such as CAD/CAM and not gaming.
That is one of the reasons the dual 2.7 machine with a 6800 card performs so poorly against the same setup on a PC. This has been talked to death already on several other sites shortly after Doom 3 came out for the Mac.
Despite what a poster or two said much earlier on this thread (I try to read all posts first) a 9800 board is almost obsolete today. I hate to even think about the 9600 lines.
A 6800 board will shatter a 9800, an 800 will as well. The 7800 far exceeds the 6800 and 800's as do the new 1800's due out shortly.
Make no mistake about it, neither SLI or Crossfire, even if available on the Mac now, would make more than a little improvement in most gaming situations. Unless Apple decides, or even realizes that its Open GL implementation needs to be adjusted none of these solutions will matter.
Is it important to get 32 up to 34fps for double the cost, because that's about all one can expect. Due to the implementation, it's the cpu that limits the performance as much as, or more than, the GPU.
The other point here about the two ways that dual boards are being done is that Nvidia had plenty of time to come up with their scheme. ATI reacted hurriedly. The ATI solution while it has some dubious advantages, has well known problems because of that rush.
By the time Apple MIGHT be in a position to use dual Video cards, ATI at least, will have a much better system in place.
And if Apple solves its GL problems in time for the x86 Powermac launch, remember that Apple likes to do things itself, in its own way. We might see an Apple built-in solution - if they are interested.
Originally posted by onlooker
It's cheaper, but unlike in gaming if your using it for 3D apps you very well may need the extra Memory per card. Although if you are using SLI for 3D you would probably be going with a quadro anyway. But if you soft quadro (which isn't possible on the mac yet - neither is quadro, or SLI for that matter) the memory would be your big bonus. I don't think games can address that much of it yet.
Here's the other problem I wanted to discuss. ALL gaming boards work poorly in a pro 3D app. No exceptions. They simply aren't designed for that purpose.
I would much rather have one $800 pro graphics board than two $500 gaming boards. Unfortunatly Apple hasn't seen fit to encourage the companies to produce one for them.
This is unfortunate because many companies doing pro 3D work, as well as the software companies producing the software have complained LOUDLY about this lack.
One medium level pro graphics board can significantly out perform any dual gaming card configuration. Easily.
Originally posted by melgross
Here's the other problem I wanted to discuss. ALL gaming boards work poorly in a pro 3D app. No exceptions. They simply aren't designed for that purpose.
I would much rather have one $800 pro graphics board than two $500 gaming boards. Unfortunatly Apple hasn't seen fit to encourage the companies to produce one for them.
This is unfortunate because many companies doing pro 3D work, as well as the software companies producing the software have complained LOUDLY about this lack.
One medium level pro graphics board can significantly out perform any dual gaming card configuration. Easily.
And I would rather have Two (2) pro-level OpenGL cards in SLI/CrossFire configuration than anything else...
We (that's the royal We) don't care about gaming...
They make consoles for that...
Originally posted by MacRonin
And I would rather have Two (2) pro-level OpenGL cards in SLI/CrossFire configuration than anything else...
We (that's the royal We) don't care about gaming...
They make consoles for that...
We'll just have to see if that happens. It's up to ATI and Nvidia.